Laker, Hawks trade possibilities

Laker, Hawks trade possibilities

Postby zetaw00d on Wed Jun 11, 2003 3:12 pm

Atlanta trades: C Theo Ratliff (8.7 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 31.1 minutes)
PG Jason Terry (17.2 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 7.4 apg in 38.0 minutes)
Atlanta receives: PF Robert Horry (6.5 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 2.9 apg in 29.3 minutes)
PG Derek Fisher (10.5 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 3.6 apg in 34.5 minutes)
PF Samaki Walker (4.4 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 18.6 minutes)
PF Mark Madsen (3.2 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.7 apg in 14.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -1.3 ppg, +6.8 rpg, and -0.1 apg.

L.A. Lakers trades: PF Robert Horry (6.5 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 2.9 apg in 29.3 minutes)
PG Derek Fisher (10.5 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 3.6 apg in 34.5 minutes)
PF Samaki Walker (4.4 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 18.6 minutes)
PF Mark Madsen (3.2 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.7 apg in 14.5 minutes)
L.A. Lakers receives: C Theo Ratliff (8.7 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 81 games)
PG Jason Terry (17.2 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 7.4 apg in 81 games)
Change in team outlook: +1.3 ppg, -6.8 rpg, and +0.1 apg.


Due to Atlanta and L.A. Lakers being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Atlanta and L.A. Lakers had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

what do you guys think?
This is possible under the CBA
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Postby zetaw00d on Wed Jun 11, 2003 3:13 pm

or

Atlanta trades: C Theo Ratliff (8.7 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 31.1 minutes)
PG Jason Terry (17.2 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 7.4 apg in 38.0 minutes)
Atlanta receives: SF Tracy Murray (2.0 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.4 apg in 6.4 minutes)
PG Derek Fisher (10.5 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 3.6 apg in 34.5 minutes)
PF Samaki Walker (4.4 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 18.6 minutes)
PF Stanislav Medvedenko (4.4 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 0.3 apg in 10.7 minutes)
PF Mark Madsen (3.2 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.7 apg in 14.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -1.4 ppg, +3.6 rpg, and -2.3 apg.

L.A. Lakers trades: SF Tracy Murray (2.0 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.4 apg in 6.4 minutes)
PG Derek Fisher (10.5 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 3.6 apg in 34.5 minutes)
PF Samaki Walker (4.4 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 18.6 minutes)
PF Stanislav Medvedenko (4.4 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 0.3 apg in 10.7 minutes)
PF Mark Madsen (3.2 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.7 apg in 14.5 minutes)
L.A. Lakers receives: C Theo Ratliff (8.7 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 81 games)
PG Jason Terry (17.2 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 7.4 apg in 81 games)
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Postby Kobe_One_Kenobi_8 on Wed Jun 11, 2003 3:19 pm

Nice work zeta,

I definitely want this trade to work, because Ratliff gives us the PF/C that we need to help out Shaq, and Terry gives us that 3rd scoring option.

I think that Atlanta would go after your second option trade because they'll get Slava. They would rather go young with Slava, than go old with Horry, at this time.
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Postby whats golden on Wed Jun 11, 2003 4:15 pm

Didn't atlanta want to trade Rush, Horry and Madsen for Ratliff ann Terry? Would would we have to give them Fisher as well? If this aforementioned deal is put on the table it would be stupid of us not to pull the trigger. Having said this I would prefer to send Walker and pick 32 to Atlanta instead of Horry.
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Postby zetaw00d on Wed Jun 11, 2003 4:53 pm

Atlanta trades: PG Jason Terry (17.2 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 7.4 apg in 38.0 minutes)
C Theo Ratliff (8.7 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 31.1 minutes)
Atlanta receives: PF Mark Madsen (3.2 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.7 apg in 14.5 minutes)
SG Kareem Rush (3.0 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 0.9 apg in 11.5 minutes)
PF Robert Horry (6.5 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 2.9 apg in 29.3 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -13.2 ppg, -0.4 rpg, and -3.8 apg.

L.A. Lakers trades: PF Mark Madsen (3.2 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.7 apg in 14.5 minutes)
SG Kareem Rush (3.0 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 0.9 apg in 11.5 minutes)
PF Robert Horry (6.5 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 2.9 apg in 29.3 minutes)
L.A. Lakers receives: PG Jason Terry (17.2 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 7.4 apg in 81 games)
C Theo Ratliff (8.7 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 81 games)
Change in team outlook: +13.2 ppg, +0.4 rpg, and +3.8 apg.

TRADE DECLINED

Due to Atlanta and L.A. Lakers being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Atlanta and L.A. Lakers had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did not happen here (only Atlanta met the condition). This trade does not satisfy the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

no the trade would not work!!
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Postby zetaw00d on Wed Jun 11, 2003 4:55 pm

but this would work though!!

C Theo Ratliff (8.7 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 31.1 minutes)
PG Jason Terry (17.2 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 7.4 apg in 38.0 minutes)
Atlanta receives: PF Robert Horry (6.5 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 2.9 apg in 29.3 minutes)
SF Tracy Murray (2.0 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.4 apg in 6.4 minutes)
PF Samaki Walker (4.4 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 18.6 minutes)
SG Kareem Rush (3.0 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 0.9 apg in 11.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -10.0 ppg, +3.0 rpg, and -3.1 apg.

L.A. Lakers trades: PF Robert Horry (6.5 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 2.9 apg in 29.3 minutes)
SF Tracy Murray (2.0 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.4 apg in 6.4 minutes)
PF Samaki Walker (4.4 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 18.6 minutes)
SG Kareem Rush (3.0 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 0.9 apg in 11.5 minutes)
L.A. Lakers receives: C Theo Ratliff (8.7 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 81 games)
PG Jason Terry (17.2 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 7.4 apg in 81 games)
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Postby Danny Ainge on Wed Jun 11, 2003 5:11 pm

LA Trades:
Kareem Rush, D-Fish, and Rob Horry, 2004 2nd round pick
Atlanta Trades: Jason Terry, Nazr Mohammed, Theo Ratliff, and DeMar Johnson

The way I see it, Terry and Ratliff are the big guns coming in with the possible outburst of young DeMar Johnson the young star with plenty of potential.
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Postby zetaw00d on Wed Jun 11, 2003 5:23 pm

Danny Ainge wrote:LA Trades:
Kareem Rush, D-Fish, and Rob Horry, 2004 2nd round pick
Atlanta Trades: Jason Terry, Nazr Mohammed, Theo Ratliff, and DeMar Johnson

The way I see it, Terry and Ratliff are the big guns coming in with the possible outburst of young DeMar Johnson the young star with plenty of potential.


That trade would not work based on the CBA! Mohammed makes too much and the Lakers would need to give up more!
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Postby Snakell Beast on Wed Jun 11, 2003 8:05 pm

Why then did they propose the trade before the deadline this past season? Wouldn't it be kind of stupid to propose an illegal trade? What if we did this:

Trade Rush, Walker, Madsen, Pargo and the #32 pick for Ratliff and Terry? Would that work?
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Postby whats golden on Thu Jun 12, 2003 1:44 am

I agree SB, why did they propose that trade?
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Postby zetaw00d on Thu Jun 12, 2003 8:40 pm

Theo Ratliff $9,375,000 2004-05
Nazr Mohammed $4,750,000 2005-06
DerMarr Johnson $2,423,280 2003-04
Jason Terry $2,153,934 2002-03


Robert Horry $5,300,000 2003-04
Derek Fisher $3,000,000 2005-06
Kareem Rush $1,019,554 2005-06


TRADE DECLINED

Due to Atlanta and L.A. Lakers being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Atlanta and L.A. Lakers had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did not happen here (only Atlanta met the condition). This trade does not satisfy the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.


Well I dont know how the draft picks work with trading but, the lakers are taking on too much salary! If they offered that trade it probably didnt go through because of cap reasons.
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Postby zetaw00d on Thu Jun 12, 2003 8:43 pm

65. What are the rules regarding trades?
Teams under the salary cap may make trades as they please, as long as they don't end up more than $100,000 above the salary cap following a trade. But if a team is over the cap, or they are under the cap and a trade would take them over by more than $100,000, then an exception is required. An exception is the mechanism that allows a team to make trades or sign free agents and be over the salary cap. Since teams are usually over the salary cap, trades are usually accomplished using exceptions.

Some exceptions are available only for signing free agents, and those exceptions are covered in question number 17 . The exceptions available for making trades are as follows:

The Assigned Player Exception is the principal means through which most trades are made. It is described in question number 66 .

The Traded Player Exception is actually a component of the Assigned Player Exception. It is a credit teams receive for one year after making certain trades in which they receive less salary than they trade. The Traded Player Exception is described completely in question number 67 .

The Minimum Salary Exception can be used for either trades or signing free agents. It allows teams to acquire minimum-salary players. See question number 68 for more information.

The Disabled Player Exception can also be used for either trades or signing free agents. It allows teams to acquire replacements for certain injured players (see question number 17 for more information).


http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm (CBA)
http://jazzhoops.net/salary.htm (salaries)
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Postby Snakell Beast on Fri Jun 13, 2003 12:15 am

actually, the trade that was offered last season at the deadline was Rush, Madsen and Horry for Ratliff and Terry...I guess that doesn't work...but please answer me this...would it work if we sent them Madsen, Horry, Rush, Walker and Pargo? And please tell me where you get your info so I can be more informed about trade rumors that surface here on the Forum...
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Postby whats golden on Fri Jun 13, 2003 12:36 am

would a trade work for just Terry and Ratliff.

Lakers Trade: Walker, Madsen, Rush, #32

Lakers Receive: Terry and Ratliff

would this work????
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Postby Snakell Beast on Fri Jun 13, 2003 12:53 am

yeah, that is my question, would that work, and if it didn't, would it make a difference to add Horry and Pargo...
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Postby zetaw00d on Fri Jun 13, 2003 1:50 am

Snakell Beast wrote:actually, the trade that was offered last season at the deadline was Rush, Madsen and Horry for Ratliff and Terry...I guess that doesn't work...but please answer me this...would it work if we sent them Madsen, Horry, Rush, Walker and Pargo? And please tell me where you get your info so I can be more informed about trade rumors that surface here on the Forum...



I didnt know about those trade rumors. I just got it from the board and checked if it would work. Read the trade info in the CBA site that i posted.
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Postby Guest on Fri Jun 13, 2003 2:35 am

It could be an option Snake, but I'm not real keen on having to use Horry, what about Murray instead. Will they want a guy who wants to play, or one that will retire?
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Postby whats golden on Fri Jun 13, 2003 2:36 am

that last post was me, i got logged out for being inactive i think.
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Postby Snakell Beast on Sat Jun 14, 2003 12:06 am

I would love to honor Horry for his amazing heroics over the championship runs, but if we have to use him in the trade in order to get Terry and Ratliff, then so be it...IMHO...
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Postby Lakers Dynasty 2000 on Sat Jun 14, 2003 9:24 am

You know, to tell you the truth... I want to keep Horry...

A) His late game heroics (and one bad playoff run does NOT take away this attribute which has held true his whole career)

B) And more importantly, his veteran leadership...
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Postby Kobe_One_Kenobi_8 on Sat Jun 14, 2003 11:39 am

Losing Horry is tough. The leadership and the experience we lose. I agree with your points LD2K.

However, I also agree with Snake that Terry and Ratliff are too hard to pass up, considering Atlanta does not want much from us!!!

Getting those 2, for Rush, Madsen, Horry, and a 2nd Rounder is a bargain.
I hate losing Horry, cause I like him very much. But I root for the Lakers, and not individual players. If Terry and Ratliff can provide us with more athletic ability and talent, then we have to do it. Then we can still have our MLE and LLE to get the Free agents.
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Postby Snakell Beast on Sat Jun 14, 2003 12:03 pm

I love Horry and would love to keep him, if there is a way for us to NOT trade him for Terry and Ratliff then I would go for it in a millisecond. But if Atlanta won't take no for an answer on Horry then we need to assess what we lose and what we gain.

We Lose:

1. Some Clutch Shooting
With Kobe, Devean, D-Fish and Shaq we will always have clutch shooting, but those guys areb't quite at Horry's clutch level

2. Veteran Savvy off of the bench
Rob has always been a class act and he is always a great reliable player to give you whatever you need in limited or large minutes

We Gain:

1. Youth and Athleticism
Rob is not the most athletic man in the building and that is due, in no small part, to his knee injury during his Houston days. Ratliff is much more of a leaper and, while he tends to get injured, he is still in very good shape because playing center @ 6'10 takes some athleticism and grit...

2. Shot Blocking
Rob may get his occasional block here and there, but he isn't exactly on par with Ben Wallace. Ratliff, on the other hand, IS BETTER than Ben not only because he is taller but because he has been around longer.

3. Back Court Scoring
Terry will give Kobe the neccessary lightening of his offensive load and allow Phil to actually expand the offense back to the TRIanle, instead of the BIangle we have run these past 3 seasons, since we lost GR. Remember how much better we were when we had 3 legit scoring options...

4. Free Agent Flexibility
With this trade, we still have our #24 pick, which means we can pick up a quality young project and, hopefully, we will go for defense and fundamentals this time, instead of flashy offense (with Rush). The main thing though is that we will have our MLE and LLE to spend on free agents, meaning we might be able to bring in Howard and James Posey, or go for defense and bring in PJ and Adrian Griffin. We can also shop for potential bargains on players for the bench (like Piatkowski) at the minimum...
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Postby Kobe_One_Kenobi_8 on Sat Jun 14, 2003 3:54 pm

James Posey is a nice addition, Snake. I like that idea.

He's athletic and plays a good D.

A better and more athletic player than Stephen Jackson.
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Postby Snakell Beast on Sat Jun 14, 2003 10:41 pm

Yeah, he would be a great replacement for the injured Fox...
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Postby Kobe_One_Kenobi_8 on Sun Jun 15, 2003 10:35 am

We just need to match up well with the Spurs and their quick guards/small forwards.

The fact is the Spurs have Parker, Ginobli, Jackson, Bowen, and Claxton.


If we can have this lineup of gurads and small forwards, then we will be ok and can match up well against them.

Bryant, George, Terry, Posey, and Payton(I'm still hoping)
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