Laker players comment on new flopping rule

Punk-101 wrote:I think all three should be considered flopping (offensively or defensively):

1. Faking contact that wasn't there.
2. Grossly exaggerating contact.
3. Histrionics in response to actual contact.

Good deal, but fines mean nothing, missing critical minutes will make them think about it especially someone like labron yell™

KB24 wrote:

therealdeal wrote:

KB24 wrote:







LeBronze is particularly pathetic so that came to my mind. That really deserves a suspension.

My god LeBron. Kobe says you may finally have a ring but you have no balls......

ben_ready wrote:

Punk-101 wrote:I think all three should be considered flopping (offensively or defensively):

1. Faking contact that wasn't there.
2. Grossly exaggerating contact.
3. Histrionics in response to actual contact.

Good deal, but fines mean nothing, missing critical minutes will make them think about it especially someone like labron yell™

I agree.
1st offense- $10,000 fine
2nd offense- $20,000 fine + 1 game suspension
Subsequent offenses- $50,000 fine + 1 game suspension

KB24 wrote:That would be great. But the entire problem with flopping is that refs DO NOT notice/see it. If a ref notices a flop then he would have to continue the play anyway as is also the case already today. A flop that gets noticed never leads to an official time out, rather it leads to a false charge.

The entire problem is that refs during the game are unable to see and recognize a flop. If a ref does indeed recognizes a flop and blows a whistle he needs to be fired by default. This entire flop thing is impossible to see during the game for the refs.

My solution: give every team 3 replay calls during the game. If a team feels it was a flop, they should be allowed to question that call and ask for a slow motion replay. It leads to even more breaks during the game which sucks but it also decreases the incentive to take your chances on a flop. Unfortunetly any other concequence will come after the game.

BTW I would like to know whether this is just for defensive flops or also offensive flops...

I'm sure both flops will be covered.

I have to believe that refs can see those plays and recognize them as flops. I'm thinking more like Chris Paul who throws his body on the ground or Blake Griffin who does the same thing. LeBron's plays would be the ones that are retroactively policed. But would they go after him or Paul? We'll see.

Those LeBron flops are pathetic. I'd actually say they're worse than Chris Paul's because LeBron doesn't NEED to pull that crap, he's good enough without that nonsense, he's bigger, stronger, faster than CP3 and doesn't need any acting to help himself out. Blake Griffin's might be the most pathetic of all though because he's a huge guy, a beast, and he acts like he was shot when he barely gets touched, it's a joke.

Weezy wrote:Those LeBron flops are pathetic. I'd actually say they're worse than Chris Paul's because LeBron doesn't NEED to pull that crap, he's good enough without that nonsense, he's bigger, stronger, faster than CP3 and doesn't need any acting to help himself out. Blake Griffin's might be the most pathetic of all though because he's a huge guy, a beast, and he acts like he was shot when he barely gets touched, it's a joke.

Chris Paul doesn't need to pull them either. He's already the best guard in the league after Kobe without having to pull those flops.

A part of me is glad that they're not going to enforce these in-game, another finds it unfortunate.

Here is the problem. If you are going to consider exaggerating contact a flop that gets officiated in-game, then any number of players on our team would be guilty of this. Kobe and Pau are at the top of the list. And I'm pretty sure that if officials are allowed to officiate this in-game those guys would be impacted in ways we as Laker fans are not going to agree. This should be especially worrisome for those who believe the officials/Stern have it out for us. So the good news is IF they are going to consider exaggerated contact a flop, then at least for our main guys, it's worst case just a fine.

But like some of you have shown, many non-Lakers are guilty of exaggerating contact on a regular basis. CP3 and Biff come to mind more than anyone else. So I'd like to see them stop doing that.

I'm actually ok personally with exaggerating contact. It doesn't bother me that much. I didn't mind Fish trying to draw offensive fouls on screens by exaggerating the hit, and I don't mind when Kobe does his trademark arm flail with the "HEY!" even on clean strips.

What bothers me is FAKING contact. Like pretending to have been hit in the face when you weren't.

The unfortunate thing is that players, to a degree, have to exaggerate contact to get the whistle. You can't punish ALL instances of that though because if you did the games would take 10 hours long.

What bothers me about the rule is that there is no reason to believe that it will be used in the name of justice. Whoever the league/refs like will continue to get the favorable end of the calls, and whoever the league/refs dislike will continue to get shafted. If this gets implemented, it will be another way to screw the Lakers.

^ Who should define what is and isn't justice though?

I wish that along with punishing players there was some sort of punishment for refs who reward flopping repeatedly (drop them down to reffing a bunch of Bobcats-Kings type games atleast). That way both the players and the refs are held accountable, and cases of flopping being utilized and rewarded should decrease.

IMO The sequence for a flop would be : player embarrassingly flops, doesn't get the call, other team capitalizes and scores while he complains, league announces fine and technical assessed the next day.

Texas Lakers Fan wrote:

Weezy wrote:Those LeBron flops are pathetic. I'd actually say they're worse than Chris Paul's because LeBron doesn't NEED to pull that crap, he's good enough without that nonsense, he's bigger, stronger, faster than CP3 and doesn't need any acting to help himself out. Blake Griffin's might be the most pathetic of all though because he's a huge guy, a beast, and he acts like he was shot when he barely gets touched, it's a joke.

Chris Paul doesn't need to pull them either. He's already the best guard in the league after Kobe without having to pull those flops.

Don't know if I agree with that, but I didn't say it's as bad that CP3 does it because I get it more when he does. He's a small guy, I hate his flopping, but I get it a little more because at that size I see why he tries to use any advantage he can. LeBron, on the other hand, has no excuse for his flopping, he has a size advantage on pretty much anyone he guards and he's a more than capable defender playing straight up.

SportsCenter ‏@SportsCenter
Dirk Nowitzki (@swish41) on the NBA's new flopping rules: "I think it's a bunch of crap to be honest with you." (via Dallas Morning News)
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I don't know why, but this is getting me a little fired up seeing players against these new rules. If you don't like it take your soft a** playing style and GTFO. Flopping ruins the game and if you can't handle not being able to flop anymore, then go play soccer.

I'm happy most of our players are old school and don't think about flopping when a championship is on the line (Blake Griffin) or mad when they can't flop anymore (Dirk).

JGC wrote:A part of me is glad that they're not going to enforce these in-game, another finds it unfortunate.

Here is the problem. If you are going to consider exaggerating contact a flop that gets officiated in-game, then any number of players on our team would be guilty of this. Kobe and Pau are at the top of the list. And I'm pretty sure that if officials are allowed to officiate this in-game those guys would be impacted in ways we as Laker fans are not going to agree. This should be especially worrisome for those who believe the officials/Stern have it out for us. So the good news is IF they are going to consider exaggerated contact a flop, then at least for our main guys, it's worst case just a fine.

But like some of you have shown, many non-Lakers are guilty of exaggerating contact on a regular basis. CP3 and Biff come to mind more than anyone else. So I'd like to see them stop doing that.

I'm actually ok personally with exaggerating contact. It doesn't bother me that much. I didn't mind Fish trying to draw offensive fouls on screens by exaggerating the hit, and I don't mind when Kobe does his trademark arm flail with the "HEY!" even on clean strips.

What bothers me is FAKING contact. Like pretending to have been hit in the face when you weren't.

The unfortunate thing is that players, to a degree, have to exaggerate contact to get the whistle. You can't punish ALL instances of that though because if you did the games would take 10 hours long.

This is true. The degree of exaggeration is going to be the key to the determination of if it is punishable or not, and that become very subjective. What are they going to do when analyzing the play in question, bring in a physicist to objectively measure inertia, mass, and momentum, lol? That'd be awesome.

I'm hoping there is some defined distinction between exaggerating, or selling a call and grossly exaggerating contact. I hate arm flailing (even by kobe) and throwing one's head back ala pau, Manu, Dirk, etc, and selling charge calls by falling over easier that one was really hit a la fisher, battier, but these things should be left alone IMO. The "grossly exaggerated" category would be throwing oneself to the ground from 5 feet in the air a la Griffin, flying back and falling down taking a charge when one outweighs the other by 150 lbs, and the CP3 heliflopter are all good examples. I'm sure there are more. It's dicey no matter what when trying to distinguish.

People trying to say that Kobe flops make me laugh. Kobe does not flop. Kobe has been getting screwed on actual contact inside for years. He's too pissed at the refs to flop. The floppers in this league play the refs like a fiddle...Kobe is the total opposite.

Just look which players welcome the rule and say it should be even stronger vs. the players who hate it.

Kobe is definitely not a flopper and he has been getting screwed by the refs with allowed contract for years, but he does flail his arms and yell "Hey!" even on clean plays sometimes.

Punk-101 wrote:Kobe is definitely not a flopper and he has been getting screwed by the refs with allowed contract for years, but he does flail his arms and yell "Hey!" even on clean plays sometimes.

This. He "flops" when you consider his arm flailing, but no he's not Chris Paul or LeBron James.

Doc Brown wrote:

SportsCenter ‏@SportsCenter
Dirk Nowitzki (@swish41) on the NBA's new flopping rules: "I think it's a bunch of crap to be honest with you." (via Dallas Morning News)
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I don't know why, but this is getting me a little fired up seeing players against these new rules. If you don't like it take your soft a** playing style and GTFO. Flopping ruins the game and if you can't handle not being able to flop anymore, then go play soccer.

I'm happy most of our players are old school and don't think about flopping when a championship is on the line (Blake Griffin) or mad when they can't flop anymore (Dirk).

One thing this will do is make the game more physical which I think will be fun. I don't necessarily want the 80s back (Rambis clothesline) because that's dangerous... but mid 90s to the early 2000s? That's about the right level of physicality I think.

I disagree with the flopping rule in general for a couple of reasons.

1. The league already hands out justice like a back alley judge in a small country town with no real reason behind it. Just look at the T's, the suspensions for F1's and F2's, and the rescending of any of them. THere was no rhyme or reason to what the dictator Stu did or didn't do. The league office has shown great favoritism over the years so why should the flopping be the same.

2. If flopping was fined after the fact then a point system should be in place like T's where a suspension can be made but not at 16 which would mean Blake Griffen and CP3 would be suspended by game 5 of the season. The number must be higher.

3. Speaking of suspensions, I think the only suspendable flops should be those where a player fakes an injury and delays the game. See clips of Lebron or even elbow head James Harden where he was clearly checking out what was going on while he was supposed to be knocked out. The CP3 heliflopper or DWades shot to the throat flop where no one was near them. These types of plays are sickening and should be punished greatly. (of course we have to problem of what the dictators of the NBA will choose to punish and not punish)

4. The last thing I think needs to be done is primary focus on the defensive end with people like Verajo (or whatever it is) who likes to fall down in the paint which is dangerous for everyone.

In the end, the league will mess this up because there won't be any consistancy (see: block/charge or carry/travel for examples). This all seems to be a big mistake waiting to explode.

^ Who said James Harden was supposed to be knocked out? I never heard that. Never thought it when I saw the play.

I mean really? We are at an all-time low if we're going to try to argue that James Harden freaking flopped. These kinds of opinions just can't be counted on if you're looking for any degree of objectivity whatsoever. Can be TRY to be somewhat fair in this?

JGC wrote:^ Who said James Harden was supposed to be knocked out? I never heard that. Never thought it when I saw the play.

I mean really? We are at an all-time low if we're going to try to argue that James Harden freaking flopped. These kinds of opinions just can't be counted on if you're looking for any degree of objectivity whatsoever. Can be TRY to be somewhat fair in this?

Ahh well look who is back. I didn't ask what you thought of my "level of objectivity" was or was not. The fact that I was making since, as usual, you overlooked it was that James got hit no doubt but he laid on the floor motionless for effect. One of the camera angles showed he was clearly looking to see what refs were doing before he staggered up. Not once did I say he flopped I used his example of faking an injury to delay the game or being more hurt than he was which was clear in the video, wait for it, to "ME". You disagree, congratulations.

Plus, how can we be at an all-time low when you continue to say we on CL are always at a low? We aren't realist, we don't give credit and, of course, we hate all things not Kobe. Maybe I should of used the Paul Pierce severely broken ankle injury, or the DWade throat shot, or the Lebron whiplash screen play or even Blake Griffins super eye fantom clothesline as examples but I didn't. Your tendency to pick a line out of a post to harp on for six or seven pages should be an all-time low but unfortunately its expected of your style.

puffyusaf#2 wrote:

JGC wrote:^ Who said James Harden was supposed to be knocked out? I never heard that. Never thought it when I saw the play.

I mean really? We are at an all-time low if we're going to try to argue that James Harden freaking flopped. These kinds of opinions just can't be counted on if you're looking for any degree of objectivity whatsoever. Can be TRY to be somewhat fair in this?

Ahh well look who is back. I didn't ask what you thought of my "level of objectivity" was or was not. The fact that I was making since, as usual, you overlooked it was that James got hit no doubt but he laid on the floor motionless for effect. One of the camera angles showed he was clearly looking to see what refs were doing before he staggered up. Not once did I say he flopped I used his example of faking an injury to delay the game or being more hurt than he was which was clear in the video, wait for it, to "ME". You disagree, congratulations.

Plus, how can we be at an all-time low when you continue to say we on CL are always at a low? We aren't realist, we don't give credit and, of course, we hate all things not Kobe. Maybe I should of used the Paul Pierce severely broken ankle injury, or the DWade throat shot, or the Lebron whiplash screen play or even Blake Griffins super eye fantom clothesline as examples but I didn't. Your tendency to pick a line out of a post to harp on for six or seven pages should be an all-time low but unfortunately its expected of your style.

Please do not bait me using comments I've made in previous threads. I know I may have said some things in other, unrelated threads but your incorrect perception about my feelings about Kobe have NOTHING to do with this discussion and so you bringing it up is BAITING. Specifically, you are attempting to kindle an argument from another thread into this one. Don't do that.

Now ... Not once did you say he flopped? This is what you said. Quoted.

puffyusaf#2 wrote:I think the only suspendable flops should be those where a player fakes an injury and delays the game. See clips of Lebron or even elbow head James Harden where he was clearly checking out what was going on while he was supposed to be knocked out.

James Harden looking up was an example of a "suspendable flop" to you. Those are your words, not mine and not my interpretation either. How can you say you never said it was a flop, when Harden looking up was your example of a suspendable flop?

I mean, do you really believe James Harden should have been suspended for getting elbowed in the head because he looked up?

This is precisely why ANY lack of real clarity on the definition of "flop" by the league is going to be a huge problem.

I do not consider drawing offensive fouls "flopping". Flopping is what you see with Lebron and CP360. Flailing type crap where they exaggerate being hit and they run to the other side of the building like they just got hit with a Semi. And I like the fines and it being after the game. The refs can make an assessment as well during the game which now is part of the rules, I am sure they will not fall for that crap as much now that they are looking for it officially. I mean, let's face it, Lebron likes to tout himself this big bad wolf with his size and strength, yet when an Earl Boykins runs a screen on his [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] he flies backwards like a one winged falcon. Well, now, that should end.

OX1947 wrote:I do not consider drawing offensive fouls "flopping". Flopping is what you see with Lebron and CP360. Flailing type crap where they exaggerate being hit and they run to the other side of the building like they just got hit with a Semi. And I like the fines and it being after the game. The refs can make an assessment as well during the game which now is part of the rules, I am sure they will not fall for that crap as much now that they are looking for it officially. I mean, let's face it, Lebron likes to tout himself this big bad wolf with his size and strength, yet when an Earl Boykins runs a screen on his [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] he flies backwards like a one winged falcon. Well, now, that should end.

Ok, so what happens when D12 is backing down his defender and the guy just falls to the ground as if D12 bullied his way in to the paint and the offensive foul is called? That's not a flop?

Personally I consider that the kind of flop I want them to address.

JGC wrote:

OX1947 wrote:I do not consider drawing offensive fouls "flopping". Flopping is what you see with Lebron and CP360. Flailing type crap where they exaggerate being hit and they run to the other side of the building like they just got hit with a Semi. And I like the fines and it being after the game. The refs can make an assessment as well during the game which now is part of the rules, I am sure they will not fall for that crap as much now that they are looking for it officially. I mean, let's face it, Lebron likes to tout himself this big bad wolf with his size and strength, yet when an Earl Boykins runs a screen on his [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] he flies backwards like a one winged falcon. Well, now, that should end.

Ok, so what happens when D12 is backing down his defender and the guy just falls to the ground as if D12 bullied his way in to the paint and the offensive foul is called? That's not a flop?

Personally I consider that the kind of flop I want them to address.

That play happens very rarely. It is the screen type contact that happens often. The flopping rule will be a lot like the lead with your helmet rule in the NFL. Even if the ref calls it or not. Tape will be reviewed, and if they think you flop, then they will fine you either way. Ya, it sucks and sometimes it will be a real play. Bottom line, like the helmet rule, even if you didnt do it, you will get fined or called on it. The reason why they do it is to make you not do it and 90% of the time, they will be right. Just have to deal with the 10 percent when it isnt.

OX1947 wrote:

JGC wrote:

OX1947 wrote:I do not consider drawing offensive fouls "flopping". Flopping is what you see with Lebron and CP360. Flailing type crap where they exaggerate being hit and they run to the other side of the building like they just got hit with a Semi. And I like the fines and it being after the game. The refs can make an assessment as well during the game which now is part of the rules, I am sure they will not fall for that crap as much now that they are looking for it officially. I mean, let's face it, Lebron likes to tout himself this big bad wolf with his size and strength, yet when an Earl Boykins runs a screen on his [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] he flies backwards like a one winged falcon. Well, now, that should end.

Ok, so what happens when D12 is backing down his defender and the guy just falls to the ground as if D12 bullied his way in to the paint and the offensive foul is called? That's not a flop?

Personally I consider that the kind of flop I want them to address.

That play happens very rarely. It is the screen type contact that happens often. The flopping rule will be a lot like the lead with your helmet rule in the NFL. Even if the ref calls it or not. Tape will be reviewed, and if they think you flop, then they will fine you either way. Ya, it sucks and sometimes it will be a real play. Bottom line, like the helmet rule, even if you didnt do it, you will get fined or called on it. The reason why they do it is to make you not do it and 90% of the time, they will be right. Just have to deal with the 10 percent when it isnt.

Rarely? I see it happen at least a few times in EVERY game I have ever seen. Not sure what your definition of rare is. Probably different than mine. Haha.

But the flop by the defender on post moves happens multiple times per game IMO.