My rankings of players in our summer league (pre-games):
1) Ryan Kelly (out with injury)
2) Lester Hudson
3) Elias Harris
4) Souleyman Diabate
5) Ian Hummer
6) Chris Douglas-Roberts
7) Michael Snaer
8) Marcus Landry
9) Drew Viney
10) Robert Sacre
11) DJ Seeley
12) Jordan Williams
13) Lazar Hayward
14) Mitchell Watt
15) Josh Selby
16) Kenny Boynton
17) Travis Hyman
18) Renaldo Woolridge
Players who have played in the NBA before: (top-->bottom is my order of preference)
Lester Hudson (6'1" 196 lb SG)
I'll ignore Hudson's flotsam of garbage time minutes in his first two and a half seasons in the league and focus on that half season where he played 13 games and actually got 24 minutes a game with the Cavs. Hudson is an incredibly high volume creator whose entire offensive game that entire season was predicated on runners (7th out of 62 SGs), slashing (25th) and threes (29th), but he's an average passer and is quite turnover prone in doing so. Hudson was really good at finishing around the basket that season and decent at hitting runners, although considering his frequency of slashing he didn't draw fouls that well. He also shot awfully from three, and took enough that it really hurt his efficiency. Defensively, Hudson looks like he has major potential--he was a very good defensive rebounder at Cleveland, and throughout is NBA career has always been well above the norm as a stealer and even a shotblocker, despite standing only 6'1". He particularly excels at team defense but seems decent at man D as well. However, he'll need to be crossmatched--SG on offense, PG on defense. While at 28 years old, most teams start to have their qualms about athletic slashing undersized shooting guards who can't shoot and are turnover prone, I think that Hudson's ability to create for himself and score within a 10 foot radius of the basket, as well as what looks to be very good defense and rebounding, can eke him a place in this league. In addition, Hudson's always almost shot in the mid to high 80s from the stripe in every stop, even dating back all the way to college, and he even shot 91% from the stripe in the D-League--so there's clearly shooting potential there, not to mention he took a lot of threes and hit 43% of them this past season in the D-League. So he might be an athletic slasher who can actually shoot the ball in terms of side potential, and can really D up. There's some potential as a 28 year old version of Patrick Beverley, particular if his only problem is the fact that he's a undersized, turnover prone SG.
Chris Douglas-Roberts (6'7" 200 lb SF)
Douglas-Roberts' three years in the league playing major minutes saw a very crafty shot distribution at every zone inside the paint, which makes him somewhat interesting: he took a ton of shots at the rim (10th-25th out of 70 SFs), runners (9th-25th), no-man's land (9th-29th) and mid-range J's (15th-25th), and pretty much avoided threes. The problem is he's a very mixed bag in his effectiveness in these zones and unfortunately excels at some of the more lower percentage shots, which doesn't help his efficiency. For instance, while Douglas-Roberts slashes and draws fouls, he doesn't finish well and really has a tendency of getting rejected at the rim. He takes too many shots from no man's land and shoots poorly from there. What he does have is a decent runner game and a surprisingly good mid-range shot, and what gives further hope is that he even shot 82%, 85%, and 83% from the stripe, a marked improvement from his college days. Douglas-Roberts displayed some passing ability, but had issues with turnovers and as was the case in college, was a pathetic rebounder and defensive playmaker. Defensively, Douglas-Roberts just appears nondescript man-to-man and on team defense. Douglas-Roberts' biggest problem is that while he's crafty and tough, he simply lacks athleticism--he doesn't finish well, gets blocked often, switched his shot selection to more runners than at-rim attempts his last year in the league, doesn't rebound and doesn't make defensive plays. Lacking three point range and being turnover prone doesn't help the cause either, and his nondescript defense doesn't do him any favors. He pretty much did the same thing in the D-League this past season as well. At 26 years old, this is who he is. Interesting player, but probably more for the European game.
Marcus Landry (6'8" 219 lb SF)
Landry, the brother of Golden State PF Carl Landry, appears to have re-made his game into a Cartier Martin redux, so there's minimal upside here. In college, he was an offensive rebounding mid-range binger with what looked to be between poor to OK shooting ability, at best, with average finishing, rebounding, ballhandling and passing ability. He had slight shotblocking ability, but was modest in his defensive numbers while being a foul prone hack. Apparently a scout told him the memo to modify his game to have an NBA-specific skill instead of being a master of none type, because in the D-League, he significantly changed up his shot selection to start binging on spot-up threes. Between 2009-2012, between three D-League teams and a stint at the ACB, he made at least 2.5 threes per game between 38% and 43% three point shooting--in fact, his last stint at the D-League saw him make 3.9 (!!!) threes a game. In doing so, however, he's completely lost the essences his game once had a sliver of--his free throw rate, inside finishing ability, offensive rebound rate, and rebound rate have all completely evaporated, and he's still a bit of a hack on defense. In addition, based on his past history and his continuing mediocre free throw shooting, it's questionable whether he's really a good shooter, or just a slightly above average one. All those qualms plus his desire to be a specialist suggests that he's not really NBA quality.
Jordan Williams (6'9" 247 lb C)
Williams already had a ton of red flags out of college that indicated he was a 6'9" center--in two seasons, he didn't take a single three, he shot 52-57% from the stripe, and had the passing/ballhandling skills of a NBA center. Right on cue, in the NBA, virtually all of his shots were directly at the rim (4th of 67 PFs), which were helped with good offensive rebounding (20th) but even with that he was a subpar finisher, although he drew fouls well. While he took an occasional 10-15 foot jumper (25th), again he was a very subpar shooter from there. Not to mention he was a black hole, with zero passing. Defensively, Williams isn't a shotblocker or a good defensive rebounder, but he was surprisingly reflexive as a stealer and drew charges. Still, he was mixed--he was awful on man-to-man, but decent in team defense. Still, there's trouble--he had a very unimpressive D-League where he struggled to score inside, score in general, and defensive rebound, offsetting pluses in offensive rebounding and shotblocking. Overall, Williams is just a very undersized center with nothing on offense that's even average, including zero handles and zero jumper, and despite some reflexes and ability to rotate he doesn't play the key role as a defensive rebounder or shotblocker teams come to expect from bigs. At 22 years old he's way more for the European game.
Lazar Hayward (6'6" 226 lb SF)
Hayward's shot distribution is very nondescript, and in fact the only thing he took in high frequency were runners (9th-19th out of 70 SFs). Unfortunately, he does a terrible job of making them. Hayward draws fouls quite well for someone who doesn't get directly to the rim, and will occasionally take mid-range shots and threes, but he hits both at a subpar rate. Hayward badly tailed off his last season playing meaningful minutes in OKC, both in the rebounding and passing/ballhandling front, in particular becoming very turnover prone. Defensively, Hayward really struggles to make defensive plays and on top of that is quite foul prone, which is bad combination, but he did start to draw charges. Overall, though, he got scorched on both man and team defense. Hayward did do more things in line with what he did in college when he played in the D-League, rebounding well particularly on the offensive glass, scoring inside, hitting a few threes and looking more like a SF, but his offensive game, as it has always been, has always been completely nonelusive and mid-range heavy. Ultimately, as the NBA showed, Hayward is a bit like lotto bust Joey Graham--a tweener on offense, a tweener on defense, and a complete identity crisis and really no viable skill--in fact, a lot, such as ballhandling, defense, long range shooting and finishing, all appear to be weaknesses. At 26, doesn't look like much will change from here on out.
Josh Selby (6'3" 195 lb SG)
Selby was a garbage-time player in two seasons in Memphis, and was once a lottery pick candidate before he made the foolish decision to stay in the draft after one college season. Selby used his first season to slash to the basket frequently for bricks, and even worse, struggled to draw fouls considering the frequency of his slashes and was incredibly turnover prone. He also took a lot of runners and made them well, but they're runners, and he eschewed jumpers 16 feet and beyond, more or less. In a smaller sample, the following season Selby did a switcheroo, taking more runners and bricking them, and taking and actually hitting his mid-range J's, but forgetting how to completely pass the basketball and still being turnover prone. Selby doesn't bring much in rebounding or defensive playmaking either, and his overall defense rings nondescript. The D-League saw some rebounding and passing improvements, but it confirmed the notion that he had a poor offensive setup, is an awful three point shooter and doesn't make defensive plays. He even shot 35% from the field in 11 games with Canton! So while he's only 22 years old and a 42 inch vertical, he has a complete identity crisis and nothing even remotely average on the offensive end, and not much on the defensive end. Bricked shots, turnovers, little defense, not even close to a PG. He's a reclamation project clearly not worth investing in.
Was at least on the lower dregs of my draft radar this year: (top-->bottom is my order of preference)
Elias Harris (6'7" 220 lb PF)
Harris, a German out of Gonzaga, is not even a NBA-viable player, having ranked 96th in my draft rater--which means that if there were a third round, he likely wouldn't have been drafted still. One of the biggest problems is that he's already very old, and will be 24 when the season starts, and his passing and ballhandling are at PF levels, so he's docked somewhat as an undersized PF as well. However, he's an excellent rebounder, particularly in defensive rebounding, even for a power forward, and this will be his calling card for the NBA. There's some intrigue elsewhere however--he looks what could be an OK shooter, with OK free throw shooting percentages and surprisingly, he's even shot above 40% from three for two of his four college seasons, albeit in limited attempts. He finishes inside well relative to other PFs as well. Also, he can jump, with a 38' inch vertical. However, he's largely a catch-and-shoot or catch-and-dump player with the lack of handles. Also, he seems like he'd be non-descript on defense in general--he doesn't make many defensive plays, and has nondescript end to end speed, lateral quickness and strength. Conditioning is also an issue--he's carrying a lot of excess body fat. He's really a tweener--he'll need to be crossmatched as a power forward offensively and as a SF defensively, and attempt to put his rebounding to the forefront with side finishing ability and some catch-and-shoot jumpers. His profile isn't too unlike that of Thaddeus Young's, actually. Really, his major concerns are with his undersized profile and his advanced age, but there's definite role player potential to work with here. But, given all the various hurdles, I doubt he'd overcome it, which is why he's rated so low.
Michael Snaer (6'4" 185 lb SF)
Snaer ranked 95th on my draft rater, just one step ahead of fellow summer league draftee Elias Harris. Snaer like Boynton really suffers from many fronts--three--firstly, he's quite old, and is already 23 years old. Secondly, he's also very poor at making defensive plays, not having much instincts for disruption, and really suffers as a rebounder. But the major problem, and thirdly, is that Snaer is not even close to being a shooting guard in terms of his ballhandling/passing--he just made it to small forward barely, but really his passing is arguably more in line with power forwards in the league--that's how bad he is on that front. Snaer however has a NBA-level offensive structure--he's more of a jumpshooter, but does a reasonable job drawing fouls considering that, even though he's quite awful scoring anywhere inside the three point line. He's a good but not great jumpshooter, between the three point percentages and free throw percentages he's accrued over the years. Snaer, also has a very good defensive rep in college, so likely he's a contain defender. As a 6'4" and barely a SF in terms of handles, and being anemic as a rebounder and inside scorer, he'll likely have to hope that his good (but not great) outside shooting in combination with his contain defense can eke out a DeShawn Stevenson-type existence in this league. At least there's a very niche, limited comparison, but truthfully there's so many hurdles to overcome, especially with the age in combination with the lack of ballhandling, that it's hard for him to succeed in this league.
Kenny Boynton (6'2" 187 lb SG)
Boynton ranked 72nd in my draft rater, so I expect to see him in Europe this upcoming season. He's facing severe limitations on four fronts--firstly, he's completely anemic as an athlete. He severely struggles to rebound for his position and is absolutely pathetic in the passing lanes, traits that often spell success for guards in the league. The fact that he never fouls gives the impression that he's just completely lazy on this end. Secondly, he's kind of close to combo guard territory, but he's definitely more of a SG and looking for his own shot--he was notorious for this in Florida, so he's also undersized for his position. Finally, he regressed this year, so he's likely already peaked. Boynton's offense is spread out and definitely fares better in the NBA than in college, and in fact that sort of exclusion earned him major points, but he's significantly inclined as a three point shooter, even though for a three point gunner he actually draws fouls reasonably well. The problem (and fourthly) is that he's a wild horse who loves to go down the floor for three point bricks--he's a good (but not great) shooter, based on his free throw percentages, but his undisciplined shot selection makes him look like Antoine Walker at this end, with three of his four college seasons shooting 33% or below from deep (on a large volume of attempts). And as far as either guard positions go, he's average-to-below average inside the paint, so he's far from efficient. To recap, there doesn't look to be a singular strength to capitalize on--athletically overwhelmed, jumpshooting brickster, potentially lazy defender, undersized SG, likely peaked. A lot of variables against him.
Others, likely % destined for Europe: (top-->bottom is my order of preference)
Souleyman Diabate (6'0" 165 lb PG)
Diabate, a native of the Ivory Coast, is a veteran of the French League, having played there since 2005. His offensive game is completely nonelusive and mid-range heavy, and to boot he's not much of a long range shooter--he's consistently made about a third of his threes, although there's potential with his shot, given that what was once a poor free throw shot has steadily rose 80% and even 90% in past seasons. Diabate has shown NBA PG-like passing several seasons and SG-like passing in others, so I think he's a bit of a combo guard, but there's clearly some point skills in there. Diabate also has very good ability to force turnovers. Overall, he looks very interesting to me--I'm not enthusiastic about his personal offense, but with some passing potential, defensive deflecting ability and what looks to be an improving shot, he looks like a poor man's Darren Collison from this vantage point, and at 25 years old there's some role player potential here.
Ian Hummer (6'7" 230 lb SF)
Hummer steadily developed his ballhandling/passing skills to the point that they're at relative NBA SF levels, but his lack of threes and poor free throw shooting signifies a lack of touch and range that might still make him a PF in this league. Hummer's offense is incredibly mid-range heavy and nonelusive, and he only appears to be a OK shooter/finisher inside the painted area. He's quite crafty and can gets steals and even blocks for SF levels, and again, if he can make the transition to SF, he's a good rebounder. We can to account for Princeton's weaker competition, but he can have a role as a fill-in-the-blanks type who doesn't need the ball in his hands--a few steals, a few blocks, good rebounding, improving passing/handles. If he can get the shooting to be even average it might actually open a lot of doors. He has a lot of the basic ingredients down pat for the league, and he's only 22 years old.
Drew Viney (6'8" 210 lb PF)
Viney's offensive structure in college was nondescript and featured some threes and some slashing, but given that he was a significantly better outside shooter than inside shooter (where he was very subpar), it's not surprisingly to see him start binging on those shots in the French League. In his last four significant years of playing, Viney has shot 43%, 38%, 46% and 47% on threes. However, Viney has PF ballhandling/passing abilities and SF height, so he's a real tweener, with awful rebounding ability and not much defensive playmaking. Viney did pass better at Europe, however. He's really looking at a Steve Novak upside here, but he doesn't have the height to possibly do this well enough, and he's really a Europe player all the way.
DJ Seeley (6'4" 190 lb SG)
Seeley crafted a very elusive offensive game his last two years at Cal State Fullerton that might have some translation to the NBA level, as he drew fouls and hit threes at a 43 and 42 percent clip, respectively. Still, based on his years at Berkeley and his free throw percentages, he might be more of a decent to good than a great shooter. Seeley is nondescript as a rebounder and passer and somewhat poor as a defensive playmaker, and also appears to be somewhat poor at scoring inside the arc, so clearly he's attempting to make it as an undersized shooter with some desire to step inside and hope to draw fouls. He's already 23 and appears quite limited, and with the poor competition in Fullerton, it's hard to expect much of anything.
Mitchell Watt (6'9" 229 lb PF)
Watt's a full fledged PF, with PF level handles/passing--in particular very awful handles, very few threes, and still poor, albeit improving, free throw touch. Watt has a completely predictable offense that sees little foul drawing an only average scoring efficiency inside the stripe, and is a poor rebounder who puts more effort on the offensive glass. About the only thing Watt excels is blocking shots well, but he also has reasonable stealing ability, albeit he's very foul prone in doing this. Largely, Watt has no NBA viable skill offensively and defensively, while he can block shots, his inability to stay out of foul trouble and get the boards undermines that single skill. He's 23 but like Tony Gaffney, likely way more cut out for Europe.
Travis Hyman (6'11" 235 lb C)
Hyman played 25 games for Tulsa this past season in the D-League, and displayed absolutely zero ballhandling/passing ability and zero touch (no threes attempted, 32% from the line). That almost always means that you have to be an excellent rebounder and defender to compensate. And both of them...he is not. Hyman is an absolutely pathetic rebounder, especially on the defensive glass, and in a case of DJ Mbenga syndrome, spends too much time chasing down blocks without thinking, as he's excessively foul prone and neglects to box out his man. Hyman's also incredibly lousy finishing inside. He literally has no NBA viable skills here and is just a big body for camp. At age 25, it's even questionable whether Europe likes this skillset.
Renaldo Woolridge (6'8" 208 lb PF)
Woolridge is a heavily inclined three point shooter who can't even hit college threes--in fact, his shooting might be broke, as evidenced by the fact that he never shot 60%+ from the stripe in any of his five years in college. In addition to that, he can't score inside the arc, is horrendous at making defensive plays, was a defensive hack earlier in his college career, and has oscillated between OK and awful ballhandling ability for someone with such a limited role offensively. The only thing he does OK is rebound. Clearly, he's just here because of the LA connection, because I doubt he could even find a job in Europe with this skillset.
Last edited by rydjorker121
on Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:55 pm, edited 5 times in total.