Laker Scouting Reports

Re: Laker Scouting Reports

Postby revgen on Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:39 pm

^So basically, Boozer stinks at everything except defensive rebounding. Great pickup.
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Re: Laker Scouting Reports

Postby kray28 on Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:17 am

Is it a coincidence that Boozer's numbers dropped when he went to Chicago? While I don't doubt that he's clearly a player on the decline, I think some of the dropoff can also be explained by the Bulls offense.

Put him back in a system with a strong PnR guard, and those baskets that were hard might become a fair bit easier.
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Re: Laker Scouting Reports

Postby abeer3 on Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:44 am

I'm encouraged by the fact that davis has had some success playing at c.
I'm discouraged by just about everything boozer.
I don't think donates motiejunas is very good.
I do think aminu would help shore up the sf spot.
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Re: Laker Scouting Reports

Postby lakerfan2 on Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:00 am

Boozer is a player who is heavily reliant on another player creating for him, getting easy buckets and finishing. With Deron Williams running the pick and roll with him, he was getting easy pickings. Unlike Karl Malone, Boozer doesn't have the ability to create his own shot or have a post game..

In a pick and roll setting, he has a great jumpshot and rolls hard to the rim and finishes.

Last couple years, Chicago was without Rose. But even with Rose, a more of a scoring guard than a distributor, not to say that Rose doesn't pass, Boozer just never got into any rhythm.

This is not to say Boozer is a terrible offense player, but more of a heavily complimentary player.
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Re: Laker Scouting Reports

Postby sister golden hair on Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:57 am

I just don't see the value in this acquisition. Boozer has been dead weight for years. I think that money could have been better spent elsewhere. Seems that he was picked up because he is well-known as opposed to being productive. He was placed on the trash heap for a reason, folks, and it wasn't just money. He's been on a downward trajectory for several years so, again, why is he a good addition to the team? Maybe he'll help the team squeeze in an additional win, which will end up costing them good draft position (maybe even costing them a top five pick, which means they will end up sending their pick to the Suns. How is that helpful?
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Re: Laker Scouting Reports

Postby lakerfan2 on Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:08 am

sister golden hair wrote:I just don't see the value in this acquisition. Boozer has been dead weight for years. I think that money could have been better spent elsewhere. Seems that he was picked up because he is well-known as opposed to being productive. He was placed on the trash heap for a reason, folks, and it wasn't just money. He's been on a downward trajectory for several years so, again, why is he a good addition to the team? Maybe he'll help the team squeeze in an additional win, which will end up costing them good draft position (maybe even costing them a top five pick, which means they will end up sending their pick to the Suns. How is that helpful?


Even without Boozer, we weren't going to end up in the bottom two teams, which are the ONLY teams guaranteed to the 4 and 5 picks. If we tanked and somehow got assigned the 6th pick, guess what, you just gave the Suns the 6th pick. Besides, it won't be like 2015 will be as deep as 2014 will be, not nearly.

Like I explained earlier, Boozer is not a creator, and was asked to be one in Chicago when his true calling is just a pick and roll target, a good one to boot. Rose wasn't the same distributor as DWill was anyway.

If we're going to be sending our pick to Phoenix, why not try and make the playoffs and make it as high as possible? It's understand we had two horrible seasons in a row, but it's okay to be optimistic once in awhile.
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Re: Laker Scouting Reports

Postby sister golden hair on Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:48 am

lakerfan2 wrote:
sister golden hair wrote:I just don't see the value in this acquisition. Boozer has been dead weight for years. I think that money could have been better spent elsewhere. Seems that he was picked up because he is well-known as opposed to being productive. He was placed on the trash heap for a reason, folks, and it wasn't just money. He's been on a downward trajectory for several years so, again, why is he a good addition to the team? Maybe he'll help the team squeeze in an additional win, which will end up costing them good draft position (maybe even costing them a top five pick, which means they will end up sending their pick to the Suns. How is that helpful?


Even without Boozer, we weren't going to end up in the bottom two teams, which are the ONLY teams guaranteed to the 4 and 5 picks. If we tanked and somehow got assigned the 6th pick, guess what, you just gave the Suns the 6th pick. Besides, it won't be like 2015 will be as deep as 2014 will be, not nearly.

Like I explained earlier, Boozer is not a creator, and was asked to be one in Chicago when his true calling is just a pick and roll target, a good one to boot. Rose wasn't the same distributor as DWill was anyway.

If we're going to be sending our pick to Phoenix, why not try and make the playoffs and make it as high as possible? It's understand we had two horrible seasons in a row, but it's okay to be optimistic once in awhile.
\

You actually think this team has the chance to make the playoffs? I suppose that's possible. But whether you give the Suns the 6th pick or higher, it doesn't much matter. It would be preferable to keep your own top five pick, no?

It's just my opinion, but think adding Boozer is a waste of resources. He has no future with this organization. Better to give the rook all the playing time he can handle so that he can develop faster. The FO's moves don't often make sense to me. Maybe they do to you, and that's fine.
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Re: Laker Scouting Reports

Postby therealdeal on Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:53 am

So we should just trust our 19 year old rookie is good for 82 games on starters minutes? Boozer has absolutely no purpose, waste of money. Got it.

It doesn't matter if we give the Suns a #6 pick? Really? Why not? I'd really rather our division rival not have a great pick, but that's just me. If we're not going to have a great shot at getting our #5 pick back, then we might as well do the best we can while still trying develop some young talent.
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Re: Laker Scouting Reports

Postby Weezy on Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:58 am

therealdeal wrote:So we should just trust our 19 year old rookie is good for 82 games on starters minutes? Boozer has absolutely no purpose, waste of money. Got it.

It doesn't matter if we give the Suns a #6 pick? Really? Why not? I'd really rather our division rival not have a great pick, but that's just me. If we're not going to have a great shot at getting our #5 pick back, then we might as well do the best we can while still trying develop some young talent.


To add to that, you gotta have some vets, every team has to have some vets. If you don't, the young guys run wild and have nobody to learn the ways of the league from. Boozer serves that purpose. Also, not tanking or being absolutely awful, IMO teaches the guys to be competitive rather than to be losers. Do we really want to be as bad as we can be and teach these new and young guys to be losers, that the Lakers are now a franchise that is about losing? No, heck no. Kobe isn't going to stand for that, and a guy like Boozer IMO will also push guys not to be content with that. This is not a meaningless signing, it has plenty of benefits.
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Re: Laker Scouting Reports

Postby karacha on Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:03 pm

I agree. This signing makes sense. Puts less pressure on Randle, and saves his health. Puts less pressure on Lin to score. I'd rather pay Boozer who is not amazing, but knows what he's doing, then to pay someone 3M to suck on purpose. We have mostly young players. Kobe and Booz are the only real veterans. Have to have those on your team. We are trying to rebuild, while still being competitive. I don't know about you guys, but I still want to watch my team play hard and compete, even if they are not contenders.
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Re: Laker Scouting Reports

Postby therealdeal on Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:34 pm

karacha wrote:I agree. This signing makes sense. Puts less pressure on Randle, and saves his health. Puts less pressure on Lin to score. I'd rather pay Boozer who is not amazing, but knows what he's doing, then to pay someone 3M to suck on purpose. We have mostly young players. Kobe and Booz are the only real veterans. Have to have those on your team. We are trying to rebuild, while still being competitive. I don't know about you guys, but I still want to watch my team play hard and compete, even if they are not contenders.

Exactly. I'd really like to not have to watch 30 point blowouts every night. We're not Detroit, Milwaukee, or Philadelphia over here. If we're going to lose games, let's at least go down swinging.
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Re: Laker Scouting Reports

Postby sina on Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:53 am

C: Hill, Davis, Sacre
PF: Boozer, Randle, Kelly
SF: Johnson, Young
SG: Kobe, Henry
PG: Lin, Nash, Clarkson

1st unit: Kobe, Boozer and Lin carry the offence. Hill and John provide energy, hustle, athleticism and take cre of defense. Not great, but not bad either. Boozer and Lin are both good in playing P&R.

2nd unit: Nash is surrounded with young players like Randle, Young, Henry and shooter in Kelly. Nash's health is an issue. Bringing back Marshall as a back is needed. Clarkson is still too green. Sacre and Davis provide muscle when needed.

Coach: Scott is great coach for PG. He knows how to utilize a PG's power: Kidd with Jefferson and Martin, surrounded with Kittles and Krstic in Nets. Then CP3 with David West and bobby Jackson, Stojakovic in Hornets. It may not a championship-calibra team, but should be better than last year if healthy
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Re: Laker Scouting Reports

Postby wolfpaclaker on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:42 am

sister golden hair wrote:
lakerfan2 wrote:
sister golden hair wrote:I just don't see the value in this acquisition. Boozer has been dead weight for years. I think that money could have been better spent elsewhere. Seems that he was picked up because he is well-known as opposed to being productive. He was placed on the trash heap for a reason, folks, and it wasn't just money. He's been on a downward trajectory for several years so, again, why is he a good addition to the team? Maybe he'll help the team squeeze in an additional win, which will end up costing them good draft position (maybe even costing them a top five pick, which means they will end up sending their pick to the Suns. How is that helpful?


Even without Boozer, we weren't going to end up in the bottom two teams, which are the ONLY teams guaranteed to the 4 and 5 picks. If we tanked and somehow got assigned the 6th pick, guess what, you just gave the Suns the 6th pick. Besides, it won't be like 2015 will be as deep as 2014 will be, not nearly.

Like I explained earlier, Boozer is not a creator, and was asked to be one in Chicago when his true calling is just a pick and roll target, a good one to boot. Rose wasn't the same distributor as DWill was anyway.

If we're going to be sending our pick to Phoenix, why not try and make the playoffs and make it as high as possible? It's understand we had two horrible seasons in a row, but it's okay to be optimistic once in awhile.
\

You actually think this team has the chance to make the playoffs? I suppose that's possible. But whether you give the Suns the 6th pick or higher, it doesn't much matter. It would be preferable to keep your own top five pick, no?

It's just my opinion, but think adding Boozer is a waste of resources. He has no future with this organization. Better to give the rook all the playing time he can handle so that he can develop faster. The FO's moves don't often make sense to me. Maybe they do to you, and that's fine.


I was a bit perplexed at the Boozer move as well. Seems Mitch has some pressure to win games, even if we don't make the playoffs, winning 42 games is a lot better than say 30. Doesn't help that no draft pick unless we really really suck,so LA is super motivated to at least fight for that last spot in the playoffs,

On rookie Randle, I would love to see him given PT and free reign to create, but not to the point of early burn out. However, weren't Hill and Kelly enough at the PF position? To me they seemed to have signed Boozer to play Center.
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Re: Laker Scouting Reports

Postby lakerfan2 on Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:28 am

Hill is more than capable to play Center, so are Davis and Sacre. You got to remember, the days of the back to the basket 7-foot center are at it's low points. Guys like Hill can easily guard the 5 without too much give. Also, Hill is a heckuva help defender in the right situation.

Also remember, we got Houston's 1st AND 2nd pick from the Lin trade.
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Re: Laker Scouting Reports

Postby abeer3 on Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:56 am

hill can guard lots of fives, but against guys like howard and m. gasol, things could get quite ugly.
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Re: Laker Scouting Reports

Postby lakerfan2 on Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:11 pm

abeer3 wrote:hill can guard lots of fives, but against guys like howard and m. gasol, things could get quite ugly.


Howard, nah. Gasol maybe.
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Re: Laker Scouting Reports

Postby abeer3 on Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:33 pm

howard doesn't have counters, but when you're twice as strong as the opponent, you don't need them. he'd murder hill.
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Re: Laker Scouting Reports

Postby lakerfan2 on Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:45 pm

abeer3 wrote:howard doesn't have counters, but when you're twice as strong as the opponent, you don't need them. he'd murder hill.


I'd be okay with Hill going 1 on 1 with him. Dwight would most likely get into foul trouble.
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Re: Laker Scouting Reports

Postby therealdeal on Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:41 am

lakerfan2 wrote:
abeer3 wrote:howard doesn't have counters, but when you're twice as strong as the opponent, you don't need them. he'd murder hill.


I'd be okay with Hill going 1 on 1 with him. Dwight would most likely get into foul trouble.

Actually Hill probably would. I love Jordan, but he doesn't have enough in his back pocket to guard some of the bigger Centers in the League on a consistent basis. That's not a knock on him or an injury note or anything, he's just smaller than some of the big guys.

That being said, defense is a team game. In those situations, I might switch Boozer onto those guys and have Hill provide weak side support. I know Boozer isn't known for his defense, but I'd just tell him to keep a body on those players. Nothing spectacular, just solid body contact defense.
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Re: Laker Scouting Reports

Postby abeer3 on Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:24 pm

Utah used to put booz on yao, iirc.
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Re: Laker Scouting Reports

Postby therealdeal on Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:25 pm

abeer3 wrote:Utah used to put booz on yao, iirc.

Exactly. Shorter, but very strong. Most Centers aren't real post payers anyway. If the guy goes at Carlos, have Wesley and Hill ready to help defensively.
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Re: Laker Scouting Reports

Postby JJack on Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:57 am

therealdeal wrote:
JJack wrote:of cause Morey told Lakers he is not available, bcoz he wanna keep him as a minimum contract bench player squeeze every bit out of him. DMO himself wanted to be a starter, he actually started some games in his 1st season but got demoted to almost the end of the bench in the 2nd, far from the promise Morey made when signed him(yeah we all know). just keep in watch, next season is the last yr of his 3yr contract and the HOU boat is leaking.

I honestly don't know enough about him to agree or disagree with you.

All I'm saying is that I'm not sure he's someone the Lakers could realistically try to get this summer.


good news, the 7 footer show interest in being a lakers.
http://twitter.com/LithuaniaBasket/stat ... 7104150528

seems the toxic environment they created wont keep young prospects.
http://twitter.com/LithuaniaBasket/stat ... 1642342401

and Lakers can send Lin to recruit him.
http://twitter.com/LithuaniaBasket/stat ... 4790132736

by my own evaluation this is another team first guy dont play for money like Lin. wont be too much trouble to keep him if he breakout being a Lakers.
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Re: Laker Scouting Reports

Postby rydjorker121 on Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:54 pm

Wayne Ellington:
Position: SG
Height: 6’4”
Weight: 200
Age: 26
Contract: $915,243 (’14-15)
Nickname: N/A
Years With Team: 0
Years With League: 5
Previous Teams: Minnesota, Cleveland, Memphis, Dallas
Acquired: Free Agent '14

Ellington is a low-usage shooter through and through--in five seasons, he shoots 38.6% from three point range overall, a very good career mark which jibes with his three years of work in college (39.1%). He's coming off shooting very well--42.3% on his last 156 three point attempts. Despite only playing garbage time minutes with Dallas, Ellington posted a positive offensive RPM rating, and in the top two-fifths of shooting guards.

Ellington showcased some passing wrinkles in college, but his compressed usage has mitigated his passing to more or less mediocre levels. Ellington's low-usage spot up game does come with the benefit of reduced turnovers--he was in the lower five in turnovers back in Cleveland, and was in the lower twelve in 2.5 of the past 3 seasons.

Part of Ellington's problem career-wise is that simply, he has not always fashioned himself a strict three point shooter. Ellington's better seasons came in Memphis and particularly Cleveland, when he took mid-range shots even below the shooting guard average. In Minnesota and also in Dallas, he took far too many mid-range shots given his three point percentages (in Dallas, over two-fifths of his shots were from the mid-range). Ellington is not a super self-creator of mid-range shots, rather letting the defense dictate whether he's spotting up or shooting off the dribble, but he's shown some promise: he's shot 40%, 44% and an excellent 53% on long mid-rangers, the latter percentage under Byron Scott. But at the same time, he's slowed down in this area significantly in the past 1.5 years, shooting 33% and 31%. He's a career 85.5% foul shooter with excellent three point percentages and a past history of hitting mid-rangers, so it is all there, but he needs to maintain his all-around shooting (or take more three pointers) given the other deficits to his game.

Athletically, with Ellington, you'd just never really know it. Offensively, he plays far less around the rim than most SGs (he took an absolutely pathetic 12.6% shots at the rim under then and now coach Byron Scott, a whopping -14% below the SG average) and similarly only 11.4% of his shots came at the rim this season with Dallas. Only six shooting guards had a smaller layup rate than he did this year, and needless to say he has no runner game. As a result, Ellington has never had a foul drawing rate even approaching average in the NBA, and in fact he was setting futile marks the past several seasons, with foul drawing rates in the bottom five of SGs. Even among shooters, the inability to draw fouls is a huge red flag, and raises concerns about his softness offensively. While he has grown somewhat okay jumping-wise from his Minnesota days, he's still slightly below par in dunk rate (2.3, 2.1% over the past two seasons). In general, he really under-utilizes his latent athleticism, given that he did register a 38 inch vertical back in 2009, with good conditioning (5.5% body fat).

Defensively, Ellington's seen as a backup because his poor wingspan makes him have the standing reach of several tall point guards--he's comparable to Russell Westbrook and Jarrett Jack--and other guards of this height have similarly struggled, such as OJ Mayo and Jerryd Bayless. Just like the inability to draw fouls offensively, the most damning area defensively is his inability to block shots--he only has 23 blocks in 312 career games, and per 40 minutes in both college and the NBA, he blocks 0.1 shots career-wise. Needless to say, he routinely finds himself in the bottom three of shooting guards in blocking shots. It's a similar story with steals, where he never has a steal rate approaching the average of NBA shooting guards. He does not really make up for this deficit with a nose for the ball--he's an average rebounder. This affects his defense--which was in the bottom third of SGs this season in defensive RPM. His overall defense has been a mixed bag, and he has had moments (his half season in Memphis defensively was promising), but he needs to show real individual consistency instead of being elevated by team principles. Overall, his problem is that there is no real feistiness defensively, because his lack of foul rate is put in a bad light relative to his defensive resume.

Ellington just lacks aggressiveness on both ends of the court--he has a major aversion to contact which precludes him from seeking the rim on offense, and on defense he has tweener size on top of a severe lack of defensive interference--offering extremely poor levels of steals and blocks. Those foul drawing and block rate numbers are extreme outliers which puts a major damper on his shooting, which still needs to get sorted out given his propensity for taking increasing wayward mid-range shots. Even if he becomes a strict three point shooter, his other weaknesses might preclude him from taking a larger role. His upside was never that great to begin with given that he only succeeds with one skill, but at age 26 and still trying to sift through his strengths, the time appears to be running out for him.
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Re: Laker Scouting Reports

Postby rydjorker121 on Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:55 pm

Wayne Ellington:
Position: SG
Height: 6’4”
Weight: 200
Age: 26
Contract: $915,243 (’14-15)
Nickname: N/A
Years With Team: 0
Years With League: 5
Previous Teams: Minnesota, Cleveland, Memphis, Dallas
Acquired: Free Agent '14

Ellington is a undersized, low-usage shooter through and through--in five seasons, he shoots 38.6% from three point range overall, a very good career mark which jibes with his three years of work in college (39.1%). He's coming off shooting very well--42.3% on his last 156 three point attempts. Despite only playing garbage time minutes with Dallas, Ellington posted a positive offensive RPM rating, and in the top two-fifths of shooting guards.

Ellington showcased some passing wrinkles in college, but his compressed usage has mitigated his passing to more or less mediocre levels. Ellington's low-usage spot up game does come with the benefit of reduced turnovers--he was in the lower five in turnovers back in Cleveland, and was in the lower twelve in 2.5 of the past 3 seasons.

Part of Ellington's problem career-wise is that simply, he has not always fashioned himself a strict three point shooter. Ellington's better seasons came in Memphis and particularly Cleveland, when he took mid-range shots even below the shooting guard average. In Minnesota and also in Dallas, he took far too many mid-range shots given his three point percentages (in Dallas, over two-fifths of his shots were from the mid-range). Ellington is not a super self-creator of mid-range shots, rather letting the defense dictate whether he's spotting up or shooting off the dribble, but he's shown some promise: he's shot 40%, 44% and an excellent 53% on long mid-rangers, the latter percentage under Byron Scott. But at the same time, he's slowed down in this area significantly in the past 1.5 years, shooting 33% and 31%. He's a career 85.5% foul shooter with excellent three point percentages and a past history of hitting mid-rangers, so it is all there, but he needs to maintain his all-around shooting (or take more three pointers) given the other deficits to his game.

Athletically, with Ellington, you'd just never really know it. Offensively, he plays far less around the rim than most SGs (he took an absolutely pathetic 12.6% shots at the rim under then and now coach Byron Scott, a whopping -14% below the SG average) and similarly only 11.4% of his shots came at the rim this season with Dallas. Only six shooting guards had a smaller layup rate than he did this year, and needless to say he has no runner game. As a result, Ellington has never had a foul drawing rate even approaching average in the NBA, and in fact he was setting futile marks the past several seasons, with foul drawing rates in the bottom five of SGs. Even among shooters, the inability to draw fouls is a huge red flag, and raises concerns about his softness offensively. While he has grown somewhat okay jumping-wise from his Minnesota days, he's still slightly below par in dunk rate (2.3, 2.1% over the past two seasons). In general, he really under-utilizes his latent athleticism, given that he did register a 38 inch vertical back in 2009, with good conditioning (5.5% body fat).

Defensively, Ellington's seen as a backup because his poor wingspan makes him have the standing reach of several tall point guards--he's comparable to Russell Westbrook and Jarrett Jack--and other guards of this height have similarly struggled, such as OJ Mayo and Jerryd Bayless. Just like the inability to draw fouls offensively, the most damning area defensively is his inability to block shots--he only has 23 blocks in 312 career games, and per 40 minutes in both college and the NBA, he blocks 0.1 shots career-wise. Needless to say, he routinely finds himself in the bottom three of shooting guards in blocking shots. It's a similar story with steals, where he never has a steal rate approaching the average of NBA shooting guards. He does not really make up for this deficit with a nose for the ball--he's an average rebounder. This affects his defense--which was in the bottom third of SGs this season in defensive RPM. His overall defense has been a mixed bag, and he has had moments (his half season in Memphis defensively was promising), but he needs to show real individual consistency instead of being elevated by team principles. Overall, his problem is that there is no real feistiness defensively, because his lack of foul rate is put in a bad light relative to his defensive resume.

Ellington just lacks aggressiveness on both ends of the court--he has a major aversion to contact which precludes him from seeking the rim on offense, and on defense he has tweener size on top of a severe lack of defensive interference--offering extremely poor levels of steals and blocks. Those foul drawing and block rate numbers are extreme outliers which puts a major damper on his shooting, which still needs to get sorted out given his propensity for taking increasing wayward mid-range shots. Even if he becomes a strict three point shooter, his other weaknesses might preclude him from taking a larger role. His upside was never that great to begin with given that he only succeeds with one skill, but at age 26 and still trying to sift through his strengths, the time appears to be running out for him.
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Re: Laker Scouting Reports

Postby trodgers on Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:32 pm

Thanks for the info. I'm happy to see something - anything new.
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