Laker Summer FAQ (Read 1st post on pg. 1, then ask Qs, thx)

Postby d.carter4kobe on Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:02 pm

Kobe Bryant 8 wrote:
JKsnoots wrote:
d.carter4kobe wrote:Crap I wouldnt trade J.Critt for Artest and I love Artest......Kwame+Farmar+08 1st and filler for Artest and Brad Miller or Kenny Thomas


There's no way the Kings would do that.


1. You wouldn't trade Critt for Artest? I bet you would have traded Kwame and the 19th pick...
2. That is no where near working cap wise.
3. The Queens would do that in a second. Thomas and Miller are PAID.


1.Yep..but i wont now...Critt is a star in the makeing
2.Kwame+Farmar+Sasha+McKie(3mill) for Artest and B.Miller does works
3.And we would have to overpay for the Kings to trade Artest to us
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Postby Radner on Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:07 pm

d.carter4kobe wrote:
Kobe Bryant 8 wrote:
JKsnoots wrote:
d.carter4kobe wrote:Crap I wouldnt trade J.Critt for Artest and I love Artest......Kwame+Farmar+08 1st and filler for Artest and Brad Miller or Kenny Thomas


There's no way the Kings would do that.


1. You wouldn't trade Critt for Artest? I bet you would have traded Kwame and the 19th pick...
2. That is no where near working cap wise.
3. The Queens would do that in a second. Thomas and Miller are PAID.


1.Yep..but i wont now...Critt is a star in the makeing
2.Kwame+Farmar+Sasha+McKie(3mill) for Artest and B.Miller does works
3.And we would have to overpay for the Kings to trade Artest to us


I would throw in Evans if the Kings were somehow amenable to the trade.
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Postby LAL25 on Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:33 pm

KwameKobeOdom wrote:Sky- What are the possibilities that L.A stays with the same roster?


Damn good possibility. And I don't have to be Sky to tell you that.
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Postby Kobe Bryant 8 on Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:39 pm

d.carter4kobe wrote:
Kobe Bryant 8 wrote:
JKsnoots wrote:
d.carter4kobe wrote:Crap I wouldnt trade J.Critt for Artest and I love Artest......Kwame+Farmar+08 1st and filler for Artest and Brad Miller or Kenny Thomas


There's no way the Kings would do that.


1. You wouldn't trade Critt for Artest? I bet you would have traded Kwame and the 19th pick...
2. That is no where near working cap wise.
3. The Queens would do that in a second. Thomas and Miller are PAID.


1.Yep..but i wont now...Critt is a star in the makeing
2.Kwame+Farmar+Sasha+McKie(3mill) for Artest and B.Miller does works
3.And we would have to overpay for the Kings to trade Artest to us


1. You know he's a star in the making how?
2. That works, but that isn't what you said before.
3. We don't have to overpay if it's the best deal. I doubt they could get more than Critter and Kwame's expiring for the headcase.
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Postby d.carter4kobe on Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:48 pm

Kobe Bryant 8 wrote:
d.carter4kobe wrote:
Kobe Bryant 8 wrote:
JKsnoots wrote:
d.carter4kobe wrote:Crap I wouldnt trade J.Critt for Artest and I love Artest......Kwame+Farmar+08 1st and filler for Artest and Brad Miller or Kenny Thomas


There's no way the Kings would do that.


1. You wouldn't trade Critt for Artest? I bet you would have traded Kwame and the 19th pick...
2. That is no where near working cap wise.
3. The Queens would do that in a second. Thomas and Miller are PAID.


1.Yep..but i wont now...Critt is a star in the makeing
2.Kwame+Farmar+Sasha+McKie(3mill) for Artest and B.Miller does works
3.And we would have to overpay for the Kings to trade Artest to us


1. You know he's a star in the making how?
2. That works, but that isn't what you said before.
3. We don't have to overpay if it's the best deal. I doubt they could get more than Critter and Kwame's expiring for the headcase.


1.The same way you know Kobe Bryant is going to be a star in 96(not comparing the 2)
2.I said Thomas OR Miller
3.Or they could keep him instead of tradeing him to the hated lakers and let him expire and im sure its other offers out there
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Postby THE_DAGGER on Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:19 pm

Critical Beatdown wrote:Take whatever you will, but getting scored on to the tune of 23 points per game is undeniable, no matter how many intangibles you provide, and I saw a couple Wolves games this season, and Hassell did not look like the ace defender of old, but just basically starting to get old.

Also, I didn't even take into account the new DCS scores that 82games puts together, which incorporates defensive rankings from other analysts. Hassell ranked at or near the bottom of all these rankings (301st, 210th, 300th, and 5 out of 100 DCS score).

Anyone still thinking Hassell is a defensive stopper is just living in the past.


Well, I took a look at those DCS scores, and according to those scores, these are some of the players that had defensive ratings that were 4th worst or lower on their respective teams: Greg Buckner, Tayshaun Prince, Danny Granger, Dahntay Jones, Richard Jefferson, Desmond Mason, Keith Bogans, Raja Bell, Damien Wilkins

Now, here are some players that had defensive ratings that were 5th best or higher on their respective teams: Zaza Pachulia, LeBron James, Donyell Marshall, Allen Iverson, Chris Webber, Tim Thomas, Dwyane Wade, Andrew Bogut, Michael Redd, Troy Hudson, Amare Stoudemire, Leandro Barbosa, Rashard Lewis, Luke Ridnour, T.J. Ford, Brendan Haywood, Gilbert Arenas

Do you notice anything weird about these 2 groups?
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Postby sticky on Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:28 pm

Kobe Bryant 8 wrote:
sticky wrote:
Kobe Bryant 8 wrote:Kwame and Critter for Artest...


opinion or source?


Opinion. There is no way the Queens can turn that down. Expiring cash and a good guard prospect?

Contrary to popular belief, Artest WILL make this team MUCH better.


I AGREE...if we can get artest for a combination of cook, sasha, kwame, farmar, critter, radmanovic...it's a STEAL...and it'll make us a CONTENDER for the championship!..as well as trading for j. o'neal without giving up bynum!
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Postby Critical Beatdown on Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:39 pm

THE_DAGGER wrote:
Critical Beatdown wrote:Take whatever you will, but getting scored on to the tune of 23 points per game is undeniable, no matter how many intangibles you provide, and I saw a couple Wolves games this season, and Hassell did not look like the ace defender of old, but just basically starting to get old.

Also, I didn't even take into account the new DCS scores that 82games puts together, which incorporates defensive rankings from other analysts. Hassell ranked at or near the bottom of all these rankings (301st, 210th, 300th, and 5 out of 100 DCS score).

Anyone still thinking Hassell is a defensive stopper is just living in the past.


Well, I took a look at those DCS scores, and according to those scores, these are some of the players that had defensive ratings that were 4th worst or lower on their respective teams: Greg Buckner, Tayshaun Prince, Danny Granger, Dahntay Jones, Richard Jefferson, Desmond Mason, Keith Bogans, Raja Bell, Damien Wilkins

Now, here are some players that had defensive ratings that were 5th best or higher on their respective teams: Zaza Pachulia, LeBron James, Donyell Marshall, Allen Iverson, Chris Webber, Tim Thomas, Dwyane Wade, Andrew Bogut, Michael Redd, Troy Hudson, Amare Stoudemire, Leandro Barbosa, Rashard Lewis, Luke Ridnour, T.J. Ford, Brendan Haywood, Gilbert Arenas

Do you notice anything weird about these 2 groups?


You can cherry pick all you want but I'm not using the DCS as a primary argument, and you're avoiding that primary argument which is that Hassell is on the serious decline and surrenders an extreme number of points to his opponent, so he's not stopping anyone and is on the decline.

Apparently a few anonymous Wolves fans on RealGM though are more credible sources. Hassell is on the decline and done. He would not help our team. Every single objective (and imperfect) defensive measure I've seen shows him at the bottom of the league.
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Postby THE_DAGGER on Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:17 pm

Critical Beatdown wrote:You can cherry pick all you want but I'm not using the DCS as a primary argument, and you're avoiding that primary argument which is that Hassell is on the serious decline and surrenders an extreme number of points to his opponent, so he's not stopping anyone and is on the decline.

Apparently a few anonymous Wolves fans on RealGM though are more credible sources. Hassell is on the decline and done. He would not help our team. Every single objective (and imperfect) defensive measure I've seen shows him at the bottom of the league.


Part of you primary argument is based off of computer computation. I'm sorry, but in terms of judging basketball and basketball players, I take human intuition over computer computation every time. The other part of you primary argument is based off of your sole personal opinion. So, yes, apparently a few anonymous Wolves fans on RealGM are more credible sources than one anonymous Lakers fan giving an opinion on a Wolves player.

I never denied that Hassell has had a couple of off-years. My point is, if he's in different circumstances and is in a different environment, it's not out of the question for him to be the type of player he was once known to be.

I've never seen a specialist just all of a sudden lose the one great skill he possesses. I've never seen a great 3 point shooter just all of a sudden become a horrible 3 point shooter for the rest of his career. But, that's what your implying has happened to Hassell and his defense, at the age of 28 no less.
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Postby Sky on Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:28 pm

Where do the Lakers go from here? To the set of Let Them Gel! the NBA's most exciting game show. Tell them what they've won Johnny - an all expenses paid trip to Scottsdale in May where they will play on all these lush golf courses (crowd: oooooooh!) after their first round exit (crowd: aaaaaaaah!)

Seriously though, trades are unlikely. It's Mitch. Whatever chances they have reside in Odom and Bynum taking a big step up and Crittenton being ready in the second half of the year.

At this point they'll listen to Kobe offers but I doubt anything comes along near term that sparks their interest. In prototypical Laker management fashion it will drag with no resolution and then fade into nothing. Just like the season.

As for Hassell, I pimped him hard back when Chicago was shopping him before they cut him loose in 2003. Add Hassell to the '04 team and imo LA has another ring. But now? Lost lateral acceleration. I'm all for pursuing a doberman, it's vital, but Hassell is no longer in that class. Like Eric Snow is still a very smart defender but has lost a step, same is true imo of Hassell.
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Postby Dee_J on Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:33 pm

Sky, is Dr. Buss ready to light up the cigar with Red Auerbach after the Celtics win the Championship next year?
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Postby Lakerman JSJ on Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:35 pm

DJ wrote:Sky, is Dr. Buss ready to light up the cigar with Red Auerbach after the Celtics win the Championship next year?


Are you asking if Dr. Buss is going to die cuz that's what it would take for him to meet up with Red.
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Postby JuanoLAL on Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:37 pm

Lakerman JSJ wrote:
DJ wrote:Sky, is Dr. Buss ready to light up the cigar with Red Auerbach after the Celtics win the Championship next year?


Are you asking if Dr. Buss is going to die cuz that's what it would take for him to meet up with Red.


I bet you that is exactly what he wants: Buss dead. Only DJ!
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Postby Dee_J on Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:37 pm

Lakerman JSJ wrote:Are you asking if Dr. Buss is going to die cuz that's what it would take for him to meet up with Red.


Actually what i meant to say was Red coming back from the dead.
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Postby Lakerfantilidie on Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:00 pm

IT is my opinion that this team will be terrible again. Even if healthy, I see us barely
making the playoffs and a quick exit. I also dont see it impossible for us to not make it at all. Under the circumstances, we got two choices.

Choice 1: See if Kobe is willing to ride it out this season, and see how well the team does.

Choice 2: Take the best deal for him. Right now, I hate to admit it, cause I hate them so much, but......the best deal is to offer him up to Phoenix. Amare, Barbosa, and the Atlanta 1st round pick for next year is the price tag. Phoenix will bark at the deal to see if we will lower, but if we stick to it, they would love to have Kobe, I could see them taking the Lakers up on it.
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Postby Kobe Bryant 8 on Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:02 pm

Sky wrote:Where do the Lakers go from here? To the set of Let Them Gel! the NBA's most exciting game show. Tell them what they've won Johnny - an all expenses paid trip to Scottsdale in May where they will play on all these lush golf courses (crowd: oooooooh!) after their first round exit (crowd: aaaaaaaah!)

Seriously though, trades are unlikely. It's Mitch. Whatever chances they have reside in Odom and Bynum taking a big step up and Crittenton being ready in the second half of the year.

At this point they'll listen to Kobe offers but I doubt anything comes along near term that sparks their interest. In prototypical Laker management fashion it will drag with no resolution and then fade into nothing. Just like the season.

As for Hassell, I pimped him hard back when Chicago was shopping him before they cut him loose in 2003. Add Hassell to the '04 team and imo LA has another ring. But now? Lost lateral acceleration. I'm all for pursuing a doberman, it's vital, but Hassell is no longer in that class. Like Eric Snow is still a very smart defender but has lost a step, same is true imo of Hassell.


You don't think there is a single player out there we can get to do that? Not via trade, remaining MLE, ect?
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Postby Kobe Bryant 8 on Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:04 pm

Sky, this is kind of a random question, but I was wondering...

You said you want to draft Prince and Barbosa during their respective years. You obviously knew what you were talking about in terms of evaluating talent...

But who were you wrong about? Who did you think could never make it in this league, but proved you wrong?
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Postby nomoreshaq on Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:15 pm

sky, are you telling me that we're going into the season with this lineup?

bynum/kwame/mihm
odom/turiaf/cook
walton/vlad
kobe/evans/karl
fisher/farmar/crittenton/sasha

?

good lord.
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Postby Sky on Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:58 pm

Kobe - I was wrong about Tayshaun, thought he was just too slight to make it. The guys I had pegged from the start were Barbosa and Varejao recently and Arenas in the past, among others Was wrong about Prince and Deron Williams.

Nomore - I'm not happy about it either, but the chances are far better than not that what they have now is it.
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Postby trodgers on Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:02 pm

Sky, with the current roster and financial situation of the Lakers, is there a player we could grab that would push us to the next level? From everything I've read from you this year, you're still a 1st round exit guy, right? I think LA has a good shot at the second round as is, but I'm sure there's someone out there I haven't noticed. I don't like the Karl signing given LA's landscape. If we're keeping Walton and Vlad, why get the Walton/Vlad hybrid? Or maybe he's more of a Sasha/Walton hybrid. Not sure.

In essence, I want you to answer my question from the Royal Room thread :man1:
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Postby Kobe Bryant 8 on Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:04 pm

Sky wrote:Kobe - I was wrong about Tayshaun, thought he was just too slight to make it. The guys I had pegged from the start were Barbosa and Varejao recently and Arenas in the past, among others Was wrong about Prince and Deron Williams.


Didn't you want the Lakers to take Prince? Or did you just say the scouts had Prince picked and took the player that fell?
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Postby trodgers on Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:16 pm

Kobe Bryant 8 wrote:
Sky wrote:Kobe - I was wrong about Tayshaun, thought he was just too slight to make it. The guys I had pegged from the start were Barbosa and Varejao recently and Arenas in the past, among others Was wrong about Prince and Deron Williams.


Didn't you want the Lakers to take Prince? Or did you just say the scouts had Prince picked and took the player that fell?

It's the latter. Prince had been heavily scouted apparently by the Lakers, but whoever it was (Rush?) fell and the Lakers salivated.
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Postby Kobe Bryant 8 on Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:32 pm

trodgers wrote:
Kobe Bryant 8 wrote:
Sky wrote:Kobe - I was wrong about Tayshaun, thought he was just too slight to make it. The guys I had pegged from the start were Barbosa and Varejao recently and Arenas in the past, among others Was wrong about Prince and Deron Williams.


Didn't you want the Lakers to take Prince? Or did you just say the scouts had Prince picked and took the player that fell?

It's the latter. Prince had been heavily scouted apparently by the Lakers, but whoever it was (Rush?) fell and the Lakers salivated.


Rush was the Prince mistake, Cook was the Barbosa.
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Postby Moises on Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:40 pm

trodgers wrote:It's the latter. Prince had been heavily scouted apparently by the Lakers, but whoever it was (Rush?) fell and the Lakers salivated.


That was the Lakers MO back in the day and still is to this day somewhat. The Tri-fit falls and they get massive woodrow they can't contain themselves. They have seemed to got it right a few times these past drafts.

I don't think Mitch is all that great an evaluator of talent. Neither is Phil. I do believe though that Mitch is good with the CBA and its intricacies. That is what Buss wants, he wants to stay below the Lux Cap and not throw money around like a buffoon which is why Mitch has stuck around. So they play it "safe" with signings like Vlade, McKie, Bricker. Mitch is a puppet. As long as they have their meal ticket in Kobe they are fine.
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Postby richsmith on Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:58 pm

You guys are being generous with all the predictions of a first-round ouster. On paper, right now, the Lakers will be lucky to make the playoffs at all.
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