Laker Summer FAQ (Read 1st post on pg. 1, then ask Qs, thx)

Postby Radner on Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:41 am

Senator Kobe wrote:
JKsnoots wrote:
Senator Kobe wrote:Yes, I did not know that it takes time to build a contender, nor did I know there is no such thing as magic in this world before your post JKs, thanks.

People need realize that this 'now or bust' scenario is no different to 'potential or bust'. It's like gambling on winning now or gambling on potential, just the odds appear different for different people.

If Bynum has another so-so year with out major improvement, you think his trade value would still be where it's at now, with the mysterious 'potential' label?

/Agree with crucifixion, FO needs to pick a plan and stick to it.


I was referring to crucifixion's statement.

crucifixion wrote:Give us a team that can legitimately win 50-60 games and make it the Finals, or blow it up and put a young and exciting team out there.

Enough of this 40 win team that gets spanked in the first round. Those are the worst type of teams. Always in the middle. Not sucking enough to get lottery picks, and not good enough to have a legitmate shot at the Finals.


I was saying it takes time for a 40 win team to become a 50+ win team. Senator, I don't understand why quoted me in the first place when I was referencing to crucifixion. If there is anyone you should be attacking, it should be crucifixion not me.


I'm saying please stop stating the obvious.


Likewise why are you attacking me? I'm stating the obvious to crucifixion, so........
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Postby d.carter4kobe on Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:12 pm

JamrockLakaFan wrote:If that works salarywise thats good for us.


Everyone is saying oneal/Artest - but wasnt part of the reason artest left oneal?


yeah...Oneal took some shots at Artest in the media but thats in the past...
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Postby JamrockLakaFan on Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:25 pm

d.carter4kobe wrote:
JamrockLakaFan wrote:If that works salarywise thats good for us.


Everyone is saying oneal/Artest - but wasnt part of the reason artest left oneal?


yeah...Oneal took some shots at Artest in the media but thats in the past...


says who? I thought oneal when ron left said he didnt wanna play with him,as the whole fight fiasco and all that went wrogn majority of it was ron's fault? I see everyone saying hey playing with kobe and winning its all good I dont think so who says they wanna play with each other?
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Postby Sky on Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:30 pm

Artest is rumored to be on his way to New York.
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Postby d.carter4kobe on Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:32 pm

Sky wrote:Artest is rumored to be on his way to New York.


would Lee in the deal??
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Postby MadMax on Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:33 pm

d.carter4kobe wrote:
Sky wrote:Artest is rumored to be on his way to New York.


would Lee in the deal??


new york isnt dealing lee for anybody.
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Postby d.carter4kobe on Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:37 pm

MadMax wrote:
d.carter4kobe wrote:
Sky wrote:Artest is rumored to be on his way to New York.


would Lee in the deal??


new york isnt dealing lee for anybody.


if thats true cant they get a way better offer from other teams?? Somebody said Balkman wouldnt be in a deal either..so that would leave Nate Robinson and M.Rose?
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Postby MadMax on Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:44 pm

not really too sure, but last i heared, Lee was pretty much untouchable.
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Postby Danny Ainge on Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:15 pm

Who would NYC deal for Artest? Lee isn't going anywhere, unless Sac wants a bad contract they aren't gonna get much. Crawford maybe or Q-Rich, throw in like Balkman or Nate Rob
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Postby JuanoLAL on Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:50 pm

Isn't Balkman untouchable too? God NY is f'd up.
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Postby richsmith on Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:17 pm

JuanyO wrote:Isn't Balkman untouchable too? God NY is f'd up.


Yup, but if they manage to get Artest while keeping Lee, the Knicks are actually going to be playoff contenders in the East. And the sad fact will be that their offseason, and Isiah's performance, will have been far more successful than Kupchak and the Lakers'.
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Postby crucifixion on Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:57 pm

JKsnoots wrote:
Senator Kobe wrote:
JKsnoots wrote:
Senator Kobe wrote:Yes, I did not know that it takes time to build a contender, nor did I know there is no such thing as magic in this world before your post JKs, thanks.

People need realize that this 'now or bust' scenario is no different to 'potential or bust'. It's like gambling on winning now or gambling on potential, just the odds appear different for different people.

If Bynum has another so-so year with out major improvement, you think his trade value would still be where it's at now, with the mysterious 'potential' label?

/Agree with crucifixion, FO needs to pick a plan and stick to it.


I was referring to crucifixion's statement.

crucifixion wrote:Give us a team that can legitimately win 50-60 games and make it the Finals, or blow it up and put a young and exciting team out there.

Enough of this 40 win team that gets spanked in the first round. Those are the worst type of teams. Always in the middle. Not sucking enough to get lottery picks, and not good enough to have a legitmate shot at the Finals.


I was saying it takes time for a 40 win team to become a 50+ win team. Senator, I don't understand why quoted me in the first place when I was referencing to crucifixion. If there is anyone you should be attacking, it should be crucifixion not me.


I'm saying please stop stating the obvious.


Likewise why are you attacking me? I'm stating the obvious to crucifixion, so........


LOL..no you're not. Like most on the board, I want management to pick a side and do it. Not rebuild and remain partly competitive at the same time with youngs and vets.

So don't sing me a song about it takes time to build a winner...that I can deal with if our team was 19-21 yr olds and were very good talent. Not when we have a prime player, the best player in the league, and a bunch of also rans, and a couple young prospects.

It does not match and the result is what is has been the last two years and what it will be the next two....40 win team losing in the first round. Is that progress? Maybe to people like you. But I'd much rather go thru four seasons in which we went from 20 wins to 30 wins to 40 wins to 50 wins. I can deal with that because that is progress. Not 45 wins then 42 wins and no substantial change in the roster.

Everyone from Laker fans, to non Laker fans, to journalists, to sports talk hosts to everyone says the same thing- the Lakers are not good and will not win a championship EVER with this line up. Everyone agrees to either trade Bynum or trade Kobe.

Pick one is what I say too.

Pick either rebuilding or pick going for it now. Either one I will fully support the Lakers.

Trade Kobe, bring in a player that is 20-21yrs old but with worlds of potential to fill out the rest of the youngs we have: Bynum, Turiaf, Critt, Farmar...then I will love that team to death.

Trade Bynum, bring in a 30something player thats been an all star that can compliment Kobe and put Kobe in a position to carry the Lakers to the conference finals at worst. Do that and I will also love that team to death.

But do not keep Kobe and keep Bynum, just so we can be a 40 win team that gets spanked in the first round.

So you can go on your merry ways of thinking that Jimmy and co have a plan in place that will improve each team and that by X year they will be a championship team.

Even the 2007 and the current 2010 plan arent plans to win a championship in that year. They are plans to get a superstar on the team because management for whatever reason has chosen to not support Kobe in his prime.

All they care about is putting butts in seats which they do by having Kobe- hey ticketholders we have a player that can score 81 in any given game come enjoy the action!
While they also keep low contract rookies and vets on the team to keep salary low and avoid luxury tax at all costs. Oh sure they have random years here and there where they pay $1-$2million in luxury tax payments, but most of the times, as been in the case when they have paid luxury tax, they are also receiving significant bonus/perks from ad revenue/AEG/NBA etc because they are in the Los Angeles market and can generate just barely enough interest in their team to sell adverstising dollars.

So dont be confused thinking that we are currently watchin a team that is slowly building to a ring. That they are not doing for sure. There are 4 people who can make management decisions and each (Dr., Mitch, Jimmy, PJ) all have their own personal agendas which all result in selfish goals that have nothing to do with getting more talent around Kobe to win now.
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Postby JuanoLAL on Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:20 pm

Completely agree with ya 'crux, it's so frustrating that Mitch & Co. can't make up their frickin' minds and they effortlessly find themselves stuck between potential and proven talent. Why is it so hard to understand the fact that you can't keep both Bynum and Kobe, one has to go for this team to reach success; though I'd much rather management take the NOW approach, I'd love to see Kobe win another championship and retire here in LA.
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Postby MadMax on Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:22 pm

JuanyO wrote:Completely agree with ya 'crux, it's so frustrating that Mitch & Co. can't make up their frickin' minds and they effortlessly find themselves stuck between potential and proven talent. Why is it so hard to understand the fact that you can't keep both Bynum and Kobe, one has to go for this team to reach success; though I'd much rather management take the NOW approach, I'd love to see Kobe win another championship and retire here in LA.


I know Mgt. isn't perfect. but geez, this is the best team we've had so far isnt it?
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Postby JuanoLAL on Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:30 pm

MadMax wrote:
JuanyO wrote:Completely agree with ya 'crux, it's so frustrating that Mitch & Co. can't make up their frickin' minds and they effortlessly find themselves stuck between potential and proven talent. Why is it so hard to understand the fact that you can't keep both Bynum and Kobe, one has to go for this team to reach success; though I'd much rather management take the NOW approach, I'd love to see Kobe win another championship and retire here in LA.


I know Mgt. isn't perfect. but geez, this is the best team we've had so far isnt it?


...so far?
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Postby MadMax on Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:31 pm

JuanyO wrote:
MadMax wrote:
JuanyO wrote:Completely agree with ya 'crux, it's so frustrating that Mitch & Co. can't make up their frickin' minds and they effortlessly find themselves stuck between potential and proven talent. Why is it so hard to understand the fact that you can't keep both Bynum and Kobe, one has to go for this team to reach success; though I'd much rather management take the NOW approach, I'd love to see Kobe win another championship and retire here in LA.


I know Mgt. isn't perfect. but geez, this is the best team we've had so far isnt it?


...so far?


post shaq.
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Postby JuanoLAL on Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:34 pm

04-05 was a good team but was coached poorly and Kobe got hurt

05-06 was a better team

06-07 team got plagued by the injury bug

It's tough to say, but even if this is the best team of the four, that's not really saying much. What have we done? Drafted Critt and signed Fisher? Sounds like last year when we drafted Farmar and signed Radman.

:freak2:
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Postby MadMax on Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:42 pm

JuanyO wrote:04-05 was a good team but was coached poorly and Kobe got hurt

05-06 was a better team

06-07 team got plagued by the injury bug

It's tough to say, but even if this is the best team of the four, that's not really saying much. What have we done? Drafted Critt and signed Fisher? Sounds like last year when we drafted Farmar and signed Radman.

:freak2:


This team is way deeper than it gets credit for, has lots of promising young players (which isnt saying much), still has kobe(?) and phi, the triangle, and imo good team chemistry because this will be the 4th season playing on the same team for many of these guys. We will be much healthier and prepared than we were last season, and look how well we took off (some of it w/out Kobe).
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Postby JuanoLAL on Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:51 pm

Fisher, Farmar, Crittenton
Kobe, Mo Evans, Sasha
Luke, VladRad, Karl/Yue
Lamar, Turiaf, Cookie
Kwame, Bynum, Mihm

Yeah, were a pretty stacked team. Still won't get us past the second round. We need JO or someone else to put around Kobe/Odom to push us up where we need to be.
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Postby temp5F on Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:18 pm

MadMax wrote:We will be much healthier and prepared than we were last season, and look how well we took off (some of it w/out Kobe).


Yeah, Kobe missing several games where this team happened to win some doesn't mean jack. Let's see them make the playoffs without Kobe, then we'll talk. As the team is built right now, it's got too many weaknesses to be anything significant. Kobe will still have to carry a large load because that worthless [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] Odom is too afraid to man up and become the 2nd option that he's being paid to be. Here's hoping that Kobe doesn't wear himself out and get an injury.
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Postby MadMax on Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:06 am

temp5F wrote:
MadMax wrote:We will be much healthier and prepared than we were last season, and look how well we took off (some of it w/out Kobe).


Yeah, Kobe missing several games where this team happened to win some doesn't mean jack. Let's see them make the playoffs without Kobe, then we'll talk. As the team is built right now, it's got too many weaknesses to be anything significant. Kobe will still have to carry a large load because that worthless [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] Odom is too afraid to man up and become the 2nd option that he's being paid to be. Here's hoping that Kobe doesn't wear himself out and get an injury.


Actually, i saw this exact same team (almost) play without Kobe and they executed very well, and Odom wasent afraid to be our number 1 guy.

Obviously i want kobe playing at the same time, but i saw signs that this team could still pull off some impressive victories without Kobe. But thats just my opinion.
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Postby TalkieWalkie on Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:13 am

So is there anything new on the Artest front or is it a "wait-till-February" type situation??
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Postby THE_DAGGER on Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:40 am

I really don't like the tone on this board sometimes. My biggest fear from Kobe's trade demands and comments at that time is coming to fruition. This is turning into Kobe VS Bynum. Present VS Future.

Bynum is now the official scapegoat for the team's lack of success. The very mention of his name conjures up feelings of losing Kobe and never winning a championship.

It doesn't have to be this way. Keeping Bynum doesn't mean we're picking him over Kobe. It doesn't mean Kobe has to be traded. And in the same hand, keeping Kobe doesn't mean Bynum has to be traded.

"Winning now" doesn't have to mean a team has to get rid of all their young prospects and fill their roster with established stars.

That approach would mean that we should have never traded Divac for the rights to Kobe. It would also mean that we should have never traded Eddie Jones in order to free up the starting SG spot for Kobe. It would mean that we should have never paired a "young" Kobe with an "established" Shaq.

That's just in relation to us. But, let's apply some people's definition of "win now" to other teams. The Spurs shouldn't have brought in a 19 year old Tony Parker to play on a team with Tim Duncan. The Heat should have given us Dwyane Wade in the trade for Shaq. The Pistons should have never let a 2nd year player in Tayshaun Prince guard a veteran player like Kobe Bryant in the Finals.

The list could go on if we look further back at other teams.

I'm not saying that Bynum is on the level of some of the players mentioned. What I'm saying is that the presence of a young prospect on a team doesn't necessarily deter their chances of "winning now". It could actually help those chances.

Bynum isn't to blame. Our lack of success isn't his fault. He's not our main problem, despite the "Kobe Video" giving everyone the green-light to point him out as such.

If you want to blame anyone for our problems, it's not Bynum, it's not even really Dr. Buss or Mitch, it's actually Lamar and Kwame. Maybe not themselves personally, but definitely their play on the court.

Kobe, Lamar, and Kwame was supposed to be our "big 3". Bynum wasn't even in the equation. Kobe has been the only one to fulfill his end of the bargain at this point.

Lamar and Kwame not playing up to their potential is the real reason why "we're in this blanked up situation".

If you want to keep calling for Mitch's head, feel free to do so. After all, he's the one that put Lamar and Kwame on this team. But, honestly, is he held responsible for these players not producing on the court? Can he go suit up and play for them?

We need to fix our situation with Lamar and Kwame before we look at Bynum or anything else.

Alot of us are still on the fence on whether we should keep Lamar on the team or not. If anything, if he does stay on the team, I believe he needs to take a lesser role. Not necessarily bring in like a "JO" to the team to completely move Lamar over to 3rd option. But, maybe just get someone in here that can take some of the scoring load off him, take some of his facilitator duties. Just someone who can take a bit of that spotlight off him and lessen all that pressure he has trying to be Kobe's 2nd option.

As for Kwame, I'm about ready to blow out the candle I've been holding for him to make something of himself. I still have a shred of hope for him. But, I'll put it this way, if it's between trading Lamar, Bynum, or Kwame. I'm helping Kwame pack his bags myself.

Our main priority should be to trade Kwame. Thank God he has a $9M expiring contract. Let's ship him out to a team that could use some cap space and can offer us a player or package of players that may or may not make us title contenders, but will improve our team indefinitely.

If we need to add Farmar, then so be it. Now, that have another young PG in Crittenton, who's more ideal for the triangle and actually ran it in high school, Farmar has become expendable. Let him go to a team that could make better use of his skill set.

We also have small expiring contracts in Sasha and Evans. They can be used in trade scenarios as well.

On top of that, we have draft picks to throw out there, too.

Our primary focus should be to trade Kwame along with any combination of the above mentioned.

My main targets in Kwame-centric trades at this point are: Ricky Davis, Bobby Simmons, Andre Miller, and maybe Corey Maggette.

We don't have to give up on trying to land a big-name player. But, we need to seriously consider lower-tier players that can help our team. Players that fall into the category of not being perennial All-Stars, but definitely not scrubs.
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Postby blakeruns on Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:54 pm

i may have gone so far as to start a "no to artest" thread a few months back (feb?)

but now, it seems to be the first and last thoughts in my prayers at night
please lord, give us ron-ron.


i dont give 2 squirts of duck droppings right now
what kindve person he is off the floor. or how he is a crazy liability.


i just want that tenacity and his production.

and arent he and Lamar like ooold school bff's?
i think he would be superb in the p&g, with kb lo and pj,
things could work out

any chance?
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Postby TalkieWalkie on Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:38 pm

Is there any possibility of a Luke + Kwame package to get Artest??

They're asking for Lamar... But IMO Kwame + Luke is a darn good deal for Artest at this point in time...
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