Laker Summer FAQ (Read 1st post on pg. 1, then ask Qs, thx)

Postby cthroatgtr on Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:37 pm

Let's just assume that no big trade happens. What other options are out there that are reasonably obtainable. I will assume that Lamar will only get dealt if it brings an all star back. Bynum only if it brings a superstar back. So best I can tell Kwame is there for anyone that wants him, along with Vlad and probably Farmar as well as the Laker trash (i.e. Cook, Sasha, etc). We'll assume nobody wants Vlad. So what can we get for Kwame and change? Perhaps the right answer here is get a good player for Kwame's expiring contract and throw in Farmar to help convince a team to trade one of their better players. Is there anything out there?
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Postby MadMax on Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:43 pm

TalkieWalkie wrote:Is there any possibility of a Luke + Kwame package to get Artest??

They're asking for Lamar... But IMO Kwame + Luke is a darn good deal for Artest at this point in time...


We aren't trading Luke right now.
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Postby Chivalry on Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:11 pm

Sky, any chance of a 3-way deal with Sacramento and NY that lands Artest in a Knick uniform, Crawford in LA, and Kwame/Farmar or some similar combo in Sacramento?

I'd prefer Artest, but I think Crawford would help the team immensely, and he wouldn't be a ticking time bomb. Besides, this allows Sacramento to ship Artest off to a non-division rival.
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Postby THE_DAGGER on Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:28 pm

cthroatgtr wrote:Let's just assume that no big trade happens. What other options are out there that are reasonably obtainable. I will assume that Lamar will only get dealt if it brings an all star back. Bynum only if it brings a superstar back. So best I can tell Kwame is there for anyone that wants him, along with Vlad and probably Farmar as well as the Laker trash (i.e. Cook, Sasha, etc). We'll assume nobody wants Vlad. So what can we get for Kwame and change? Perhaps the right answer here is get a good player for Kwame's expiring contract and throw in Farmar to help convince a team to trade one of their better players. Is there anything out there?


http://www.clublakers.com/forums/who-can-we-get-in-deals-centered-around-kwame-t78938.html

Unless you're just looking for Sky's opinion or trade rumors with some legs, some of us posters have discussed Ricky Davis, Bobby Simmons, Andre Miller, Corey Maggette, and even Artest to an extent as possible options for us in trades centered around Kwame.
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Postby Critical Beatdown on Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:46 pm

Kobe will prove he's the best basketball player in the world, and in the Pantheon of All-Time, by leading this team to the promised land, this season. We will only do it as a team though, and Kobe must let and encourage Lamar to take over games. Kobe has already proved he has the right stuff...now it's time to forge a team for the ages.
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Postby The LeBrons on Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:03 am

Critical Beatdown wrote:Kobe will prove he's the best basketball player in the world, and in the Pantheon of All-Time, by leading this team to the promised land, this season. We will only do it as a team though, and Kobe must let and encourage Lamar to take over games. Kobe has already proved he has the right stuff...now it's time to forge a team for the ages.


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Postby jlkr on Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:20 am

MadMax wrote:
TalkieWalkie wrote:Is there any possibility of a Luke + Kwame package to get Artest??

They're asking for Lamar... But IMO Kwame + Luke is a darn good deal for Artest at this point in time...


We aren't trading Luke right now.

Believe Luke can't be traded until December 15 or something like that. 'sides, it's officially a toxic Vlad contract, I mean, who else would want Luke on that contract? Luke will remain a Laker for at least the next couple of seasons. Or at least as long as Phil stays around.
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Postby Weezy on Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:25 am

Critical Beatdown wrote:Kobe will prove he's the best basketball player in the world, and in the Pantheon of All-Time, by leading this team to the promised land, this season. We will only do it as a team though, and Kobe must let and encourage Lamar to take over games. Kobe has already proved he has the right stuff...now it's time to forge a team for the ages.


Yeah, right, just like last year huh? You can't seriously believe we are going to win it all this year with the team we have right now, there's just no way.
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Postby Radner on Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:27 am

crucifixion wrote:
JKsnoots wrote:
Senator Kobe wrote:
JKsnoots wrote:
Senator Kobe wrote:Yes, I did not know that it takes time to build a contender, nor did I know there is no such thing as magic in this world before your post JKs, thanks.

People need realize that this 'now or bust' scenario is no different to 'potential or bust'. It's like gambling on winning now or gambling on potential, just the odds appear different for different people.

If Bynum has another so-so year with out major improvement, you think his trade value would still be where it's at now, with the mysterious 'potential' label?

/Agree with crucifixion, FO needs to pick a plan and stick to it.


I was referring to crucifixion's statement.

crucifixion wrote:Give us a team that can legitimately win 50-60 games and make it the Finals, or blow it up and put a young and exciting team out there.

Enough of this 40 win team that gets spanked in the first round. Those are the worst type of teams. Always in the middle. Not sucking enough to get lottery picks, and not good enough to have a legitmate shot at the Finals.


I was saying it takes time for a 40 win team to become a 50+ win team. Senator, I don't understand why quoted me in the first place when I was referencing to crucifixion. If there is anyone you should be attacking, it should be crucifixion not me.


I'm saying please stop stating the obvious.


Likewise why are you attacking me? I'm stating the obvious to crucifixion, so........


LOL..no you're not. Like most on the board, I want management to pick a side and do it. Not rebuild and remain partly competitive at the same time with youngs and vets.

So don't sing me a song about it takes time to build a winner...that I can deal with if our team was 19-21 yr olds and were very good talent. Not when we have a prime player, the best player in the league, and a bunch of also rans, and a couple young prospects.

It does not match and the result is what is has been the last two years and what it will be the next two....40 win team losing in the first round. Is that progress? Maybe to people like you. But I'd much rather go thru four seasons in which we went from 20 wins to 30 wins to 40 wins to 50 wins. I can deal with that because that is progress. Not 45 wins then 42 wins and no substantial change in the roster.

Everyone from Laker fans, to non Laker fans, to journalists, to sports talk hosts to everyone says the same thing- the Lakers are not good and will not win a championship EVER with this line up. Everyone agrees to either trade Bynum or trade Kobe.

Pick one is what I say too.

Pick either rebuilding or pick going for it now. Either one I will fully support the Lakers.

Trade Kobe, bring in a player that is 20-21yrs old but with worlds of potential to fill out the rest of the youngs we have: Bynum, Turiaf, Critt, Farmar...then I will love that team to death.

Trade Bynum, bring in a 30something player thats been an all star that can compliment Kobe and put Kobe in a position to carry the Lakers to the conference finals at worst. Do that and I will also love that team to death.

But do not keep Kobe and keep Bynum, just so we can be a 40 win team that gets spanked in the first round.

So you can go on your merry ways of thinking that Jimmy and co have a plan in place that will improve each team and that by X year they will be a championship team.

Even the 2007 and the current 2010 plan arent plans to win a championship in that year. They are plans to get a superstar on the team because management for whatever reason has chosen to not support Kobe in his prime.

All they care about is putting butts in seats which they do by having Kobe- hey ticketholders we have a player that can score 81 in any given game come enjoy the action!
While they also keep low contract rookies and vets on the team to keep salary low and avoid luxury tax at all costs. Oh sure they have random years here and there where they pay $1-$2million in luxury tax payments, but most of the times, as been in the case when they have paid luxury tax, they are also receiving significant bonus/perks from ad revenue/AEG/NBA etc because they are in the Los Angeles market and can generate just barely enough interest in their team to sell adverstising dollars.

So dont be confused thinking that we are currently watchin a team that is slowly building to a ring. That they are not doing for sure. There are 4 people who can make management decisions and each (Dr., Mitch, Jimmy, PJ) all have their own personal agendas which all result in selfish goals that have nothing to do with getting more talent around Kobe to win now.


I think people sometimes forget that we are not part of Laker management. We do not know what is going on behind the scenes. How can we judge Kupchak when we have absolutely no information on trade talks? Kupchak may be unaggressive when it comes to trades but look really close at our players. People on this forum overrate Bynum so much that they are blinded by reality and ignore what the rest of NBA sees. Except for a couple teams, Bynum is seen as an average center. Mitch has probably offered Bynum to numerous teams but just as today they balk at the decision. As far as the Kidd for Bynum trade goes, it would have put the Lakers in a worse position then they already are in. Kidd has a massive contract which means that not only we would we have to give up Bynum but also Kwame, Vlade, fillers and/or Odom. Like I said before, we would have gutted our whole team just so we could chase a second round accomplishment. Crucifixion, you talk about lateral moves, well, that would have kept us grounded longer.

Analogy - As far as going one direction, I agree with you. I think management should choose one specific route rather than take both. The way I see it, management as always, has chosen to go the "Build-around-Kobe" route. Unfortunately, this roads consists of hardships such as Shaq's contract strangle hold, a horrendous Celtics/Lakers trade, Kobe's selfishness, and the Lakers missing the playoffs. The Lakers stumbled upon a young kid named Andrew who they thought would not only be a future asset to the team but also an immediate impact player. We all know what happened when Kobe was drafted out of high school - youngest kid turned the Lakers into a contender. Maybe Laker management thought they could replicate the same success with young Andrew. Even though Bynum has plenty of years to improve his game, I doubt he will ever help the Lakers become a contender.

Anyways the real problem is that a lot of people think Bynum is for the future. That may be correct but the Lakers think Bynum will have the same impact as Kobe when he was young.. They waited for Kobe to mature and develop as a player now they are waiting for Bynum to do the same thing. But as of right now, Bynum is taking a little bit too long according to team and fans' expectations. The Laker front office realizes that and they are trying their hardest come up with something, so that another team can watch over for Bynum. The remedy, though, is that we are willing to only trade Bynum for a proven big time allstar. Considering Bynum is not that good and a few teams are interestedin him, it makes the chances of a trade difficult. Add the fact that we are trading Bynum along with average players and it becomes quite apparent why we still haven't completed a trade.
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Postby L4L on Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:35 am

Thanks for the info earlier Sky.
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Postby crucifixion on Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:50 am

JK- as far as Kidd for Bynum being lateral- perhaps. At the very least we're a second round team, which is still an improvement of where we are today. However, with that said, look at Boston now- they are getting players that are calling THEM. Brevin called them before signing with the Clips, Deke supposedly called them.

Just like when we had Shaq, players were willing to come here for minimum because they knew they had a chance at a ring.

So if we had Kidd and Kobe AND Lamar, do you think Grant Hill easily signs with Phx? Or Eddie Jones to Dal? At the very least we'd be getting a lot of players that were INTERESTED in coming here. So who's to say a Kidd-Kobe-Odom-Hill-Mihm team w/Jones-Vlad-Luke-etc on the bench can't get to the WCF?



SKY- with the JO article coming out today, does that hurt or help the chance of us getting JO? I think it hurts us as Indy will ask for more since they know JO is the last chance the Lakers can show to Kobe they are committed to winning.

Also, will JO most likely end up in NJ?
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Postby MadMax on Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:54 am

^
I think it helps his chances to be traded, but i still think the Pacers brass is going to be asking for too much in return.
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Postby Sky on Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:02 am

Talkie - Walton can't be dealt until Dec. 15, as jlkr said. LA doesn't value Artest enough to part with Luke anyway. If they can get Artest for Farmar and Kwame they will do it, if a deal requires more than that they will pass.

Dagger - It's not so much Bynum the player that sparks civil war as the direction he represents. Build around Kobe now while you have the best player in the game vs. Let Them Gel and pray Bynum lives up to the hype. Keeping both is not an option imo. Kobe wants a ring while he stil has prime left and Bynum won;t be ready to anchor for another two years imo. Kobe has thre years of prime left, Bynum takes two years, Kobe says screw this. Cake and eat it too with Kobe and ABynum is NOT an option. They have to choose.

Ricky Davis - MN keeps him now, last year.
Bobby Simmons - toxic contract, uncertain health
Andre Miller - was a possibility until Fisher signed
Corey Maggette - LA turned down Luke for Maggette

Chivalry - Sac would want Crawford for themselves. Even if they didn't, Crawford hated the tri in Chicago, broke from it on the floor, ripped it in the media.

Crux - I think JO's commenhts show a desire to be a laker and play with Kobe and may motivate LA to try harder to get him, but not to the point of Odom and Bynum. imo the thing to do is make an Odom deal first and then come back to Indy. But Mitch making one deal much less two is extremely remote.
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Postby NotCreative24 on Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:17 am

Sky do you think Jimmy or Mitch or whomever is willing to give up Bynum in a deal that could get done without LO??
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Postby MadMax on Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:24 am

NotCreative24 wrote:Sky do you think Jimmy or Mitch or whomever is willing to give up Bynum in a deal that could get done without LO??


I dont know if they really want to, but it seems like Lakers brass is getting backed up into a corner right now.
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Postby The Maverick on Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:11 am

Odom for Marion

Bynum, Kwame, Crittenton + Fillers for JO and David Harrison.

Fisher
Kobe
Marion
O'Neal
Harrison
Last edited by The Maverick on Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby MadMax on Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:13 am

Legend In The Making wrote:Odom for Marion

Bynum, Kwame, Crittenton + Fillers for JO and David Harrison.


I'm not interested in doing anything to improve the Suns.
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Postby noname on Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:23 am

Legend In The Making wrote:Odom for Marion

Bynum, Kwame, Crittenton + Fillers for JO and David Harrison.

Fisher
Kobe
Marion
O'Neal
Harrison


odom for marion????
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Postby The Maverick on Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:34 am

noname wrote:
Legend In The Making wrote:Odom for Marion

Bynum, Kwame, Crittenton + Fillers for JO and David Harrison.

Fisher
Kobe
Marion
O'Neal
Harrison


odom for marion????


He's a guy that can take the pressure off Kobe defensively, he can score and rebound, a great third option imo.
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Postby noname on Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:43 am

Legend In The Making wrote:
noname wrote:
Legend In The Making wrote:Odom for Marion

Bynum, Kwame, Crittenton + Fillers for JO and David Harrison.

Fisher
Kobe
Marion
O'Neal
Harrison


odom for marion????


He's a guy that can take the pressure off Kobe defensively, he can score and rebound, a great third option imo.


but he's not better than what odom would give us
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Postby Radner on Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:44 am

Legend In The Making wrote:
noname wrote:
Legend In The Making wrote:Odom for Marion

Bynum, Kwame, Crittenton + Fillers for JO and David Harrison.

Fisher
Kobe
Marion
O'Neal
Harrison


odom for marion????


He's a guy that can take the pressure off Kobe defensively, he can score and rebound, a great third option imo.


Odom, Kobe, and JO >>> Marion, Kobe, and JO :man3:
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Postby LAL25 on Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:33 am

How could you even suggest an Odom for Marion trade, Odom has consistently abused him during the playoffs.

In fact, don't forget that Odom is usually the Lakers' best player versus the Suns during the playoffs.
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Postby The Maverick on Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:39 am

LAL25 wrote:How could you even suggest an Odom for Marion trade, Odom has consistently abused him during the playoffs.

In fact, don't forget that Odom is usually the Lakers' best player versus the Suns during the playoffs.


Marion wouldn't be going against players 3 inches taller than him.
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Postby Critical Beatdown on Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:43 am

The last thing we need to do is give Lamar to the Suns. Jesus, they would have three great passers on the floor (Nash, Lamar and Boris) and Lamar would compliment Amare perfectly.

No thanks.
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Postby DangerousFromDeeep on Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:04 pm

Sky wrote:Talkie - Walton can't be dealt until Dec. 15, as jlkr said. LA doesn't value Artest enough to part with Luke anyway. If they can get Artest for Farmar and Kwame they will do it, if a deal requires more than that they will pass.

Dagger - It's not so much Bynum the player that sparks civil war as the direction he represents. Build around Kobe now while you have the best player in the game vs. Let Them Gel and pray Bynum lives up to the hype. Keeping both is not an option imo. Kobe wants a ring while he stil has prime left and Bynum won;t be ready to anchor for another two years imo. Kobe has thre years of prime left, Bynum takes two years, Kobe says screw this. Cake and eat it too with Kobe and ABynum is NOT an option. They have to choose.

Ricky Davis - MN keeps him now, last year.
Bobby Simmons - toxic contract, uncertain health
Andre Miller - was a possibility until Fisher signed
Corey Maggette - LA turned down Luke for Maggette

Chivalry - Sac would want Crawford for themselves. Even if they didn't, Crawford hated the tri in Chicago, broke from it on the floor, ripped it in the media.

Crux - I think JO's commenhts show a desire to be a laker and play with Kobe and may motivate LA to try harder to get him, but not to the point of Odom and Bynum. imo the thing to do is make an Odom deal first and then come back to Indy. But Mitch making one deal much less two is extremely remote.


WTF would we turn down maggette for luke down?

Also, how does JOs comments increase his chances of landing here?
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