Laker Summer FAQ (Read 1st post on pg. 1, then ask Qs, thx)

ASULaker wrote:Sky- I was reading a Q & A on a Bulls site and someone mentioned that we trade odom and cook for Hinrich and their 1st rnd pick. Is this at all conceivable? I guess it has to do with Hinrichs extension and fillers...would the Lakers even think about doing this? They could either use the pick or trade it right? WOuld the Bulls do something like this?

-I guess the would only do this if they had another deal lined up, they can in turn try and find a deal where they get a good PF including Bynum in the deal and it would solve a lot of problems....a good defending pg and shooter, an allstar PF with a high draft pick.

both guys would benefit. LO would be nice for Chi.

If I'm Doc, Jim and Mitch, I come out of the offseason with either Bell or Pargo, no exception.

If it's Pargo and we have some decent MLE left, then get a backup Big or sniper or Matt Barnes (I don't see how we'd need Barnes though if Walton returns).

Very nice in-depth analysis of all our possible off-season scenarios Sky! Much appreciated! Anyways, the deals I would definitely want to see go down are these two you mentioned:

1. Bynum, Kwame, Radmanovic and 19 for JO
2. Pray we can win the bidding war on Steve Blake

How would rate the chances of these two happening?

z - I think IF an impact deal happens it's JO but the chances are low. Winning Blake, even lower.

Beatdown - Bell is restricted and therefore landing him is out of LA's control. They only have a shot if Milwaukee refuses to match the Laker offer. Pargo can be had. Barnes will stay in Oakland provided they pay him near MLE money, no reason to think they won't.

Trades can happen now with clubs out of the playoffs, but nearly everyone is waiting to see what shakes down with the lottery first. I'd be shocked to see any deals before the lottery. So after May 22nd talks should heat up. If LA wants to include the salary from the draft pick in a deal they'll have to wait until after the draft to trade (June 28).

ASU - Hinrich is BYC they can't deal Captain Kirk and the pick for Odom.

DC - No. You can include up to 3M in cash in a trade but it cannot be used toward matching salaries.

Pippen - If a JO deal happened (big if) it woudl be before the draft in principle but probably after the draft for execution (so as to use the salary of the 19th pick). LA would pick on Indy's behalf, sign the player and then send him to the Pacers. Every little bit of salary would be crucial.

Sky wrote:z - I think IF an impact deal happens it's JO but the chances are low. Winning Blake, even lower.

Beatdown - Bell is restricted and therefore landing him is out of LA's control. They only have a shot if Milwaukee refuses to match the Laker offer. Pargo can be had. Barnes will stay in Oakland provided they pay him near MLE money, no reason to think they won't.

Trades can happen now with clubs out of the playoffs, but nearly everyone is waiting to see what shakes down with the lottery first. I'd be shocked to see any deals before the lottery. So after May 22nd talks should heat up. If LA wants to include the salary from the draft pick in a deal they'll have to wait until after the draft to trade (June 28).

ASU - Hinrich is BYC they can't deal Captain Kirk and the pick for Odom.

DC - No. You can include up to 3M in cash in a trade but it cannot be used toward matching salaries.

Pippen - If a JO deal happened (big if) it woudl be before the draft in principle but probably after the draft for execution (so as to use the salary of the 19th pick). LA would pick on Indy's behalf, sign the player and then send him to the Pacers. Every little bit of salary would be crucial.

sky since u don't think a deal for o'neal will happen...what do you SEE happening if ANYTHING?

Sky - I want to believe something is going to happen but reality just keeps getting in the way. I can't see how we will land any of the big names such as O'Neal or KG as other teams such as the Mavs, Knicks, and even the Suns if they lose to the Spurs or fail to win a title can put together much better packages for these players. That said, I still have a few questions and I apologize if you have already answered them.

With the Bulls on the verge of being swept do you think its more realastic that we could swing a deal to bring in a guy like Chris Duhon?

I think its gonna be real tough for Mitch to pull off anything and that after months of trying to swing something for one of the bigger names, all the other possible free agents will have signed else where. As a result, Phil won't sign an extension and Kobe will probably opt out. If that doomsday scenario plays out, will the team finally make a move to replace Mitch?

What is the relationship between Mitch and the younger Buss?

Do we really need to bring in one of the big name guys to be a better team? I love the thought of bringing in some of these guys to help Kobe, but with the exception of KG I also worry about how well the team would mesh. This group has more than enough chemistry and heart issues. What guys do you think will come in and play hard and really be team first? More importantly,who can come in and handle playing with a guy who dominates the ball as much as Kobe does?

nevermind.

Lakerman JSJ wrote:
As a side note, if the Lakers don't acquire JO or someone that would provide just as much impact, I will be beyond disappointment. I know I'm setting myself up for despair, but a JO trade makes waaaaaay too much sense for both teams to not get a deal done. It HAS to get done damn it!

Prepare yourself for disappointment. JO is the only possibility out there, and the chances are he won't be a Laker. I just can't see Superman flying out of the sky and saving the team this summer. I think they are better pressed to build the old fashioned way, through the draft and using the MLE. Maybe trade two picks to move up in the draft. Use Kwame's salary to bring in the best possible PG or SF that is athletic and can defend. Use the MLE on someone who you can count on playing time.

Lakerman JSJ wrote:

TrixR4Kids wrote:

Legend In The Making wrote:

Lakerman JSJ wrote:

TrixR4Kids wrote:I just wanted to point out something that is being looked past in a lot of these potential trades.
We traded our first round pick last year, meaning we can't trade #19 this year. You can't trade your first rounder two years in a row.
There are ways around it, but this rule does make it more difficult to get a deal done. We can trade the rights to a player after he is already drafted, but we can't trade the pick itself. We could still trade the pick by having an agreement in place before the draft and then drafting a particular player for another team in order to then trade him. But this is a little more difficult to get done than if we had the ability to trade the pick itself

First off, I've never heard of that rule, would you happen to have a link to the rulebook where it states that? Secondly, didn't we draft Farmar with our 1st Round Pick last year?

We used Miami's pick to draft Farmar.

there could be more to the rule. but i'm pretty sure you can't trade your 1st rounder in consecutive years. i'm sure sky probably knows the specifics a little better on it. maybe he can clear it up some...

Cool, we'll wait for the Doctor to check in.

The "Ted Stepein Rule" does prohibits teams from trading consecutive "future" first round draft picks. Since the 2006 first round pick isn't in the "future", it doesn't apply at this time. So yes, we can trade our #1 this offseason.

Sky - You believe that the Kings won’t deal us Artest even if our deal is marginally better than the next best offer b/c they don’t like us. I agree. But somehow you believe that Bird will hand Thomas, a man he has disliked for 25 years, Oneal.

Bird walked in the door, exiled Thomas and told Oneal to deal with it. He won’t be willing to watch Oneal and Thomas march to the ECF over the next 5 years while Indy struggles to make the post season in “rebuilding” mode. For Lee? For Crawford? To boot it puts one more team definitively ahead of them in the playoff race making it even harder to earn a post season invite even as an eight seed.

As for the other players for Oneal’s services, there will definitely be competition. Boston can put together a package. You could argue that puts another team in front of the Pacers but Boston has some interesting talent and Bird may be willing to help Ainge and the boys in green.

Portland – would not make a deal that includes Tinsley without including Randolph and won’t include this year’s first round pick. Can’t imagine the Pacers want a thug like Zach on a monster deal with all of their recent problems. In fact, in the Oregonian today

“Miles and Randolph were hanging out in the corner of the club parking lot among a group of other males. Someone fired a gun. Police were called. The group dispersed. And the officer who responded searched the lot and found one spent Smith & Wesson .40-caliber casing in the corner of the lot…… Again, we have a case of guns and NBA players and a strip club, and this routine can only go on so long before something really bad happens”

Seattle – Maybe a sign and trade centered around Lewis and one of their bigs. Seattle won’t include their pick and likely will scoff at Tinsley’s addition. Wilcox and spare parts doesn’t get it done. Is Seattle really willing to spend that kind of $$$ when they aren’t even sure where they will be playing in two years?

Phoenix –I’m convinced they would run some interference. That’s why we need a deal maker to make things happen (paging J. West). Ultimately I don’t see them wanting Oneal’s monster contract and injury history at the cost of a valued asset considering the payroll they have on the books.

I do fear this one fact. While Odom/Kwame/19 should be competitive to get Oneal with a pricetag of Tinsley Indy may be so set on getting Bynum that they stonewall us in an attempt to get him (Same as Thorn did). With Mitch as our main deal maker I’m not convinced he can win that game of chicken. If only there was someone a little like Jerry West to help us.

Sky, what do you think the chances are of a three way trade involving Jermaine ONeal? The Wizards have a 15 million dollar expiring contract in Jamison and a center demanding a trade. What do you think of this type of scenario?

Lakers Trade
Lamar Odom
Andrew Bynum
Kwame Brown

Lakers Receive
Jermaine ONeal
Brendan Haywood
Antonio Daniels

Pacers Trade
Jermaine ONeal
Jamal Tinsley
Jeff Foster

Pacers Receive
Antwawn Jamison
Kwame Brown
Andrew Bynum

Wizards Trade
Antwawn Jamison
Brendan Haywood
Antonio Daniels

Wizards Receive
Lamar Odom
Jamal Tinsley
Jeff Foster

The Benefits of this trade are:

1. Each team trades 3 players and gets 3 players in return.

2. Each team trades something they realy want to get rid of. Lakers (Kwame) Pacers (Tinsley) Wizards (Haywood)

3. Pacers get 23 million in expiring contracts, Bynum, dump Tinsley AND Foster.

4. Lakers get JO, but dont have to take Tinsley. Rather, they get Daniels, a player they already persued in the past. Also, they get a replacement center in Haywood.

5. Wizards trade a disgruntled player, make good use of their huge expiring and get an up grade at back up point guard. Odom would absolutely flourish in Washington. Also, Lamar has a great relationship with Aremas and Butler. Odom and Butler were a great front court trandom in Miami. Foster is a hard worker, something they would apreciate because Haywood lacks motivation at times.

Lakers Roster

PF-ONeal/Turiaf/Cook
SF-Walton/Radmanovic
C-Haywood/Mihm
PG-Daniels/Farmar
SG-Kobe/Evans/Vujacic

I would go after James Posey with the MLE. Good defense and shooting.
Other trades could be made later to balance out the roster. The Lakers would still have their draft picks to use as well.[/u]

scoobs24 wrote:Sky, what do you think the chances are of a three way trade involving Jermaine ONeal? The Wizards have a 15 million dollar expiring contract in Jamison and a center demanding a trade. What do you think of this type of scenario?

Lakers Trade
Lamar Odom
Andrew Bynum
Kwame Brown

Lakers Receive
Jermaine ONeal
Brendan Haywood
Antonio Daniels

Pacers Trade
Jermaine ONeal
Jamal Tinsley
Jeff Foster

Pacers Receive
Antwawn Jamison
Kwame Brown
Andrew Bynum

Wizards Trade
Antwawn Jamison
Brendan Haywood
Antonio Daniels

Wizards Receive
Lamar Odom
Jamal Tinsley
Jeff Foster

The Benefits of this trade are:

1. Each team trades 3 players and gets 3 players in return.

2. Each team trades something they realy want to get rid of. Lakers (Kwame) Pacers (Tinsley) Wizards (Haywood)

3. Pacers get 23 million in expiring contracts, Bynum, dump Tinsley AND Foster.

4. Lakers get JO, but dont have to take Tinsley. Rather, they get Daniels, a player they already persued in the past. Also, they get a replacement center in Haywood.

5. Wizards trade a disgruntled player, make good use of their huge expiring and get an up grade at back up point guard. Odom would absolutely flourish in Washington. Also, Lamar has a great relationship with Aremas and Butler. Odom and Butler were a great front court trandom in Miami. Foster is a hard worker, something they would apreciate because Haywood lacks motivation at times.

Lakers Roster

PF-ONeal/Turiaf/Cook
SF-Walton/Radmanovic
C-Haywood/Mihm
PG-Daniels/Farmar
SG-Kobe/Evans/Vujacic

I would go after James Posey with the MLE. Good defense and shooting.
Other trades could be made later to balance out the roster. The Lakers would still have their draft picks to use as well.[/u]

If the contracts match, I have to say that this is the best and most realistic multi-team trade involving JO I've seen yet. Not that I want anything to do with trading Lamar unless it's for KG, but it does seem that each team would benefit from this trade. The Wizards would be deadly with Lamar!

scoobs24 wrote:Sky, what do you think the chances are of a three way trade involving Jermaine ONeal? The Wizards have a 15 million dollar expiring contract in Jamison and a center demanding a trade. What do you think of this type of scenario?

Lakers Trade
Lamar Odom
Andrew Bynum
Kwame Brown

Lakers Receive
Jermaine ONeal
Brendan Haywood
Antonio Daniels

Pacers Trade
Jermaine ONeal
Jamal Tinsley
Jeff Foster

Pacers Receive
Antwawn Jamison
Kwame Brown
Andrew Bynum

Wizards Trade
Antwawn Jamison
Brendan Haywood
Antonio Daniels

Wizards Receive
Lamar Odom
Jamal Tinsley
Jeff Foster

The Benefits of this trade are:

1. Each team trades 3 players and gets 3 players in return.

2. Each team trades something they realy want to get rid of. Lakers (Kwame) Pacers (Tinsley) Wizards (Haywood)

3. Pacers get 23 million in expiring contracts, Bynum, dump Tinsley AND Foster.

4. Lakers get JO, but dont have to take Tinsley. Rather, they get Daniels, a player they already persued in the past. Also, they get a replacement center in Haywood.

5. Wizards trade a disgruntled player, make good use of their huge expiring and get an up grade at back up point guard. Odom would absolutely flourish in Washington. Also, Lamar has a great relationship with Aremas and Butler. Odom and Butler were a great front court trandom in Miami. Foster is a hard worker, something they would apreciate because Haywood lacks motivation at times.

Lakers Roster

PF-ONeal/Turiaf/Cook
SF-Walton/Radmanovic
C-Haywood/Mihm
PG-Daniels/Farmar
SG-Kobe/Evans/Vujacic

I would go after James Posey with the MLE. Good defense and shooting.
Other trades could be made later to balance out the roster. The Lakers would still have their draft picks to use as well.[/u]

Not a bad trade at all really.

I think Haywood is at least as good as Kwame. JO is better than Odom obviously. And we get Daniels at PG which is very important for us.

We also don't add significant salary in return.

Furthermore, the MLE on a guy like Posey or Kobestopper makes us legit contenders for the crown.

The only question are:

Does Washington want Tinsley?

And do the lakers get enough value for dealing BOTH Odom and Bynum with Kwame

Because if they are willing to deal BOTH Odom and Bynum with Kwame, we might be able to get KG + Mark Blount.

Pacers???

They do the deal yesterday!!! Shedding 25Mil off their books per year AND getting Bynum AND getting rid of Tinsley?

No brainer!

^
Washington doesn't do that deal, basically because of Tinsley.

LAL25 wrote:^
Washington doesn't do that deal, basically because of Tinsley.

Well, I heared on a Wizards fan board that they would like to get Tinsley. I think he played like 4 years at Maryland, so I guess the fans over there are pretty familar with him. If it came down to it, I would offer the Wizards the 19th pick and if they still dont want Tinsley, I would just take Tinsley on the Lakers, and it would still be a pretty good deal.

scoobs24 wrote:

LAL25 wrote:^
Washington doesn't do that deal, basically because of Tinsley.

Well, I heared on a Wizards fan board that they would like to get Tinsley. I think he played like 4 years at Maryland, so I guess the fans over there are pretty familar with him. If it came down to it, I would offer the Wizards the 19th pick and if they still dont want Tinsley, I would just take Tinsley on the Lakers, and it would still be a pretty good deal.

Tinsley went to Iowa State.

scoobs24 wrote:

LAL25 wrote:^
Washington doesn't do that deal, basically because of Tinsley.

Well, I heared on a Wizards fan board that they would like to get Tinsley. I think he played like 4 years at Maryland, so I guess the fans over there are pretty familar with him. If it came down to it, I would offer the Wizards the 19th pick and if they still dont want Tinsley, I would just take Tinsley on the Lakers, and it would still be a pretty good deal.

Tinsley would be pretty effective next to Arenas, allowing Gilbert to play more 2, so I could see the Wizards going for that if they get Lamar for the soon to be expiring Jamison.

That's an interesting trade idea. The salaries work according to ESPN's trade machine.

But I'm not sure the Lakers will be too thrilled to take on Daniels and Haywood's contracts. Each run until 2010 and pay out MLE-type money. Without Kwame and Odom's contracts coming off the books, we're pretty much locked in for the next 3 seasons to this team. If this scenario were to happen, though, I think the MLE would need to go to a Magloire or similar-caliber center rather than Posey (much as I love JP) as both Haywood and Mihm are nothing more than back-ups. But even then, you're basically hoping that Daniels/Bryant/Walton/O'Neal/Magloire is a championship-level team, and I'm not sure it is.

Wizards have a similar dilemma. Foster and Odom run through 2009, but the real killer is Tinsley's through 2011. You're banking on a backcourt of Tinsley/Hibachi and a frontcourt of Odom/Butler/Foster for the forseeable future. Not bad at all, but that much better than what they have now? Debatable.

The Lakers aren't going to trade both Bynum and Odom and only get one quality big in return. Haywood is a journeyman. AD is nice but he's old. Bynum and Odom out would have to be JO and much better pieces than Haywood and Daniels. And as Rich points out the salaries are toxic.

Sky wrote:The Lakers aren't going to trade both Bynum and Odom and only get one quality big in return. Haywood is a journeyman. AD is nice but he's old. Bynum and Odom out would have to be JO and much better pieces than Haywood and Daniels. And as Rich points out the salaries are toxic.

What kind of big man do you think we could get in addition to JO. Haywood makes about half as much(4.5) as our current center, Kwame and he is actually a slight up grade. I think Kobe would be happy with a trade like this rather then the Lakers not do anything at all.

richsmith wrote:But I'm not sure the Lakers will be too thrilled to take on Daniels and Haywood's contracts. Each run until 2010 and pay out MLE-type money. Without Kwame and Odom's contracts coming off the books, we're pretty much locked in for the next 3 seasons to this team. .

What is wrong with having a team locked in for the next three seasons?We have a three year window, remember? Phil teaches them the triangle and they play the next three years, its DO or DIE time. I dont know about you, but I think getting JO, BH and AD gives us a better chance to win, due to their defense and vet savy, I want Kobe to still be a Laker in two years.

Sky wrote:The Lakers aren't going to trade both Bynum and Odom and only get one quality big in return. Haywood is a journeyman. AD is nice but he's old. Bynum and Odom out would have to be JO and much better pieces than Haywood and Daniels. And as Rich points out the salaries are toxic.

Sky,

Im going to take from your tried and true vault my man:

"You have to give to get"

We may not get two quality big men, but we get quality pieces in return. And thats what is key here.

Im sure if the basis for the deal was something along those lines we could slip in the salary of Vlad for Marquis Daniels or something of that nature to Indiana to make the talent more palatable without changing the salary structure.

The basis for the deal though is that we get a starting caliber point in AD, JO as the big man. A replacement for Kwame at half the cost and still retain our MLE.

If we entice Indy to swap Vlad for Daniels in the deal since it doesnt affect their getting Bynum AND 25 mil in cap space AND getting rid of Tinsley, i'd say there's a fair shot a deal like this could work.

You ahve to look at what's going out and what's coming in:

Odom, Bynum, Kwame, Vlad out

JO, Haywood, Antonio and Marquis Daniels in with the MLE still to spend.

We get our 2 way anchor.
We get his center next to him
We get more athletic on the perimeter with guys that can handle the ball and create.

The MLE that is left is icing on top. The key is our talent level is raised substantially as Haywood is no worse than Kwame and JO is greater than LO or Bynum put together, without factoring in the contributions of those other two guards.

As you always say: Talent is key.

IF we can swap Vlad for Daniels in this scenario, the deal is a good one.

Sky wrote:The Lakers aren't going to trade both Bynum and Odom and only get one quality big in return. Haywood is a journeyman. AD is nice but he's old. Bynum and Odom out would have to be JO and much better pieces than Haywood and Daniels. And as Rich points out the salaries are toxic.

But it takes good journeyman and old guys to win. Look at Phil's past championship teams. We had Ron Harper and BShaw when they were like 35. John Sally was like 38. Horace Grant, Glen Rice, these guys wernt spring chickens. I think their vet savy will be a plus not a minus. Yes, they make the MLE which is the average salary and they are average players. Haywood and Daniels would be good fits. A Big man and a Point Guard that could stay in front of other point guards.

scoobs24 wrote:What is wrong with having a team locked in for the next three seasons?We have a three year window, remember? Phil teaches them the triangle and they play the next three years, its DO or DIE time. I dont know about you, but I think getting JO, BH and AD gives us a better chance to win, due to their defense and vet savy, I want Kobe to still be a Laker in two years.

Nothing wrong with having a team locked in for three seasons when you're confident in the results. Your proposed deal undeniably makes us better than we are now. But would they be on the level of the top Western teams? Probably not. Thin at the 5, undersized and defensively challenged at the 3, either too old (Daniels) or young (Farmar) at point, etc. Bynum and Odom both go out ONLY if the Lakers can bet the farm on what they get back. This doesn't qualify.

richsmith wrote:

scoobs24 wrote:What is wrong with having a team locked in for the next three seasons?We have a three year window, remember? Phil teaches them the triangle and they play the next three years, its DO or DIE time. I dont know about you, but I think getting JO, BH and AD gives us a better chance to win, due to their defense and vet savy, I want Kobe to still be a Laker in two years.

Nothing wrong with having a team locked in for three seasons when you're confident in the results. Your proposed deal undeniably makes us better than we are now. But would they be on the level of the top Western teams? Probably not. Thin at the 5, undersized and defensively challenged at the 3, either too old (Daniels) or young (Farmar) at point, etc. Bynum and Odom both go out ONLY if the Lakers can bet the farm on what they get back. This doesn't qualify.

So, realistically what do you think the Lakers could get back?