Laker Summer FAQ (Read 1st post on pg. 1, then ask Qs, thx)

Postby Sky on Mon May 07, 2007 2:10 pm

That 3-way gets high points for creativity, but Minnesota doesn't want to deal KG. That's the problem. Their preference is to build around Garnett, and they certainly don't want to see him in LA. Taylor has brought McHale back for one more year, which points to building around Garnett not dealing him.

Again there's rumors in Minneapolis of KG and Taylor talking contract extension.
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Postby Sabo on Mon May 07, 2007 2:12 pm

crucifixion wrote:That's pretty creative and I can see all teams including Boston and Minny being satisfied, especially Minny.

But many problems:
1. Boston- hates L.A.
2. Minny (McHale/Boston) - hates L.A.
3. KG still goes West

All three factors eliminate this deal. If only 1 of the three existed, it could be possible, but alas, in every scenario, two of those factors will always occur (Mchale and KG going West) so no deal.

Very creative try tho.


I don't care how much you hate somebody. If you can get the best case scenario for your team, you do it.

1)Boston immediately become a top contender in the eastern conference with Pierce|Durant|Odom|Jefferson or Pierce|Odom|Jefferson|Oden tandem. Development of Rondo, Allen and Perkins is also significant.

2)Minny gets [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] load of capspace in time for the '09 huge free agency. Have a promising young future with Foye|McCants|Green|lottery|Bynum. Get their future pick from Boston back and can be right back into the playoff hunt if Foye|Green|Bynum develop to what everyone expects.

3)KG going west is pointless if you don't plan on being competing in the next two to three years anyways. A Kobe & KG tandem only has a two to four year window anyways, look at the Miami Heat.

Sky - Of course all of this comes down to KG growing a pair and asking out. But if that were to happen, how realistic does the deal look?
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Postby Sky on Mon May 07, 2007 2:19 pm

merged
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Postby Sky on Mon May 07, 2007 2:22 pm

Sabo - KG has been hanging bb's for years, no reason to expect him to ask out now. Word is Kobe has already given up on that. IF Garnett ever values rings over his image as beloved Milkman and Hero then this deal would definitely be in the mix, along with Phoenix offering Marion, #4 and change.
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Postby crucifixion on Mon May 07, 2007 2:54 pm

What? Desmond Mason can be had for the MLE? Then there's no question, we'd have to go for him. Unless he's giving Seattle the hometown/former team discount? With the current salary scale I would expect him to want something starting at $7M per, at least.
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Postby Sky on Mon May 07, 2007 3:03 pm

Mason's stuck. He's worth 7M but the teams that have cap room aren't likely to be interested in him, so off he goes to Seattle as his first choice for MLE.
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Postby JediRekal on Mon May 07, 2007 3:11 pm

Re: Charlie Bell...

I disagree... I don't think the Bucks would match an MLE offer. If Mo gets 7 mil (low offer) that would put the team at $45.7 mil(hoopshype has the team payroll at 38.7 mil without Boykins). If the cap is set a 55 mil that only leaves them with roughly 10 mil in cap space. I HIGHLY doubt they give 5.2 mil of that cap space up for Bell when they clearly prefer Mo and want to add another very good player/star. If they match who could they get for the remaining 4.1 mil of cap space.

answer... no one

They only have this summer or next summer to use cap space before Bogut and CV get extensions.
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Postby Sky on Mon May 07, 2007 3:17 pm

Milwaukee has the team option to dump Skinner. He's at 5.8 there's the room to keep Bell at MLE and maintain a max slot. They'd be at 41 with the cap at 55.

You have the beat writer quoting the GM really wanting to keep Bell, then Bell's excellent play over the last year, and a payroll that can still have a max slot even after signing Bell at MLE.

He's staying Jedi.
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Postby JediRekal on Mon May 07, 2007 3:34 pm

Sky wrote:Milwaukee has the team option to dump Skinner. He's at 5.8 there's the room to keep Bell at MLE and maintain a max slot. They'd be at 41 with the cap at 55.

You have the beat writer quoting the GM really wanting to keep Bell, then Bell's excellent play over the last year, and a payroll that can still have a max slot even after signing Bell at MLE.

He's staying Jedi.


Sky, I think you have the wrong salaries.

Maybe i'm wrong but I have the Bucks salary as follows:

Redd - 14.52 mil
Simmons - 9.28
Gadzuric - 5.74
Bogut - 4.99
CV - 2.71
Greer - .77
Markota - .68
Mo - 7 mil???
Total $45.7 mil

I already dumped Skinner as a given. In my opinion they will let Bell go and keep the 10 mil in cap space in hopes of adding a very good player.

Will the Bucks really waste half of their cap space to keep Bell?
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Postby rayboi8 on Mon May 07, 2007 3:42 pm

I see a lot of creative hypothetical deals by a lot of people and I like the enthusiasm, but no offense, some of you need to think about a few things.

1. Is there any chance whatsoever that these scenarios actually happen.
2. Will the other team(s) make these trades knowing that they are making us into instant contenders (for example I saw one team with Kobe, Pierce, and Gasol)
3. Will our brilliant gm Mitch make all of these trades or even pull them off.

Im hoping for the best so heres my wish list of major moves in order of my preference, not necessarily in order of likeness:

1. Get Kg
2. Get JO (most likely in my opinion)
3. Get any all star without giving up Odom
4.Trade Odom for another all star and keep Bynum
5. any other good possiblity

JO seems like a very possible scenario. KG seems unlikely but you never know and I am always still hoping.

Is it just me or are you guys seriously overrating some of these players that you want. For example everyone wants Steve Blake but what I saw from him in the playoffs he is pretty much garbage that I would never even consider giving MLE money.

Also I'm not seeing as Artest very likely. I dont know, what do you think Sky? I dont see the maloofs trading with us. And who would we give up IF they decided to do so? Because I think at this point giving up Odom for Artest would be too much and I dont think the salaries would even work.

Anyway good job Sky thanks for the info. Glad to know I can stay updated with just 1 thread from now on. And I second the motion to continue the Gm Challenge, it was a lot of fun.
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Postby Sabo on Mon May 07, 2007 4:22 pm

Sky wrote:Sabo - KG has been hanging bb's for years, no reason to expect him to ask out now. Word is Kobe has already given up on that. IF Garnett ever values rings over his image as beloved Milkman and Hero then this deal would definitely be in the mix, along with Phoenix offering Marion, #4 and change.


Tell me what you think of my theory on the KG asking for extension articles...

KG and Taylor have both come to terms that it's the best interest if the two sides separate. KG is to image conscious, so he's not going to demand a trade out of Minnesota. While he does want out, he also wants to go to a team that will become a contender. Despite the supposed extension talks, both McHale and Taylor have send out feelers that they're prepared to move the franchise in another direction. Problem is that Taylor knows if he trades his franchise player, he must get all he can.

The last two franchise players that got traded, Iverson and Shaq, gave their teams the weak hand in negotiations because everyone knew they would have to pull the trigger sooner rather than later. Philly or LA couldn't always fall back during negotiations and say "we don't have to trade the guy if we don't want to. Shaun Livingston or no deal. Dwyane Wade or no deal." With the alleged extension talks, it gives Taylor the final say in trade talks. Teams can't force the issue by simply waiting for him to cave in like Knight and Kupchak did, because KG "doesn't mind staying."

In the end, Taylor sends KG to a contender while getting the best deal that anyone has gotten for a franchise player in recent trades.
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Postby crucifixion on Mon May 07, 2007 4:29 pm

Sabo- what you're proposing is almost a contradictory statement. How can Minny trade KG to a contender while at the same time getting the best possible package? To get the best, they'd strip the other team so bare that it won't be much different than KG in Minny. For example, a Laker KG deal might be Kwame-Bynum-Odom, and now with what you're proposing, is that Minny is going to do what needs to be done to get the best deal unlike the Iverson and Shaq deals. So that means including Farmar and 19 and change, while at the same time taking on about 2 more bad contracts to help Minny rebuild with youth but also have cap space.

So basically its KG and Kobe. Yes, great 1-2 punch, but compeletely no quality role players, not to mention bad contracts for injury prone players and what's their for the Lakers to do?

To trade KG to get the best possible deal ever, while at the same time leaving the team that traded for KG to be a contender is almost impossible.
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Postby Sky on Mon May 07, 2007 4:35 pm

Jedi - Those salaries are right but you're adding Mo unnecessarily. No need for them to sign him upfront when they have his Bird rights. They'll sign him last.

I know that Milwaukee fans say they wouldn't match at MLE for Bell, but fans are bloodthirsty when their team has cap room and get stars in their eyes. Management takes a more grounded view.

All they can hope for is Billups or Shard and neither is much of a shot. Billups will go where the money is and after losing Ben Dumars isn't going to let Chauncey go. Shard won't go to Milwaukee. Neither will Wallace. So save all the cap room for what exactly? How foolish would it be to hoard cap room, let an excellent young player in Bell walk for nothing back, and then they strike out on the names? Harris is smarter than that.

Milwaukee needs a 4 or a 5 and in free agency there are none. At least not high impact.

All they realistically need is an open slot to make a max offer to Chauncey. They can do that prior to having to take any action on Bell. Have 7 days to match. Chauncey makes his decision (more than likely Detroit) and then Milwaukee can react from there.

I seriously doubt LA can get Bell for MLE. All the stuff said above plus Kupchak is going to tie down the MLE at the start of free agency for seven days? Doubt that. Doesn't sound like Mitch to me. But even if he did I doubt it would matter. The Bucks can't hold cap space for ghosts and let young talent walk.
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Postby Sabo on Mon May 07, 2007 5:07 pm

crucifixion wrote:Sabo- what you're proposing is almost a contradictory statement. How can Minny trade KG to a contender while at the same time getting the best possible package? To get the best, they'd strip the other team so bare that it won't be much different than KG in Minny. For example, a Laker KG deal might be Kwame-Bynum-Odom, and now with what you're proposing, is that Minny is going to do what needs to be done to get the best deal unlike the Iverson and Shaq deals. So that means including Farmar and 19 and change, while at the same time taking on about 2 more bad contracts to help Minny rebuild with youth but also have cap space.

So basically its KG and Kobe. Yes, great 1-2 punch, but compeletely no quality role players, not to mention bad contracts for injury prone players and what's their for the Lakers to do?

To trade KG to get the best possible deal ever, while at the same time leaving the team that traded for KG to be a contender is almost impossible.


What I meant by that was it forces LA to throw in Bynum if they want to get the deal done. If KG comes out and demands a trade, LA doesn't have to throw in Bynum, Phoenix doesn't have to include the #4 pick, ect. Same way the Heat didn't have to throw in Wade. It's been well documented how Jimmy Buss won't give up the kid, but Minny has the leverage to hold out for him in order for us to land KG.

I'm not saying they'd get the equal value, which is impossible. I should've made my point a little clearer. Minny will have final say in all matters, because they have the leverage that other franchise player trades don't if they claim that KG has been talking extension.
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Postby crucifixion on Mon May 07, 2007 5:09 pm

Sky- with Kobe's recent comments, have your sources heard any inside scoop from LAL management that suggests Jimmy will be put in his place and that Bynum will be made available? Or maybe Jimmy has gotten even more stubborn and now Bynum is more off limits than he was before? I doubt that, but I'm sure those Kobe comments had to have an effect on Jerry Buss and co in one shape or another. Is the team honestly more willing to move Bynum, or was Mitch's line about everyone but Kobe being available just a PR spin to buy them some time so they can figure out how to get an all-star for Kwame and 19?
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Postby crucifixion on Mon May 07, 2007 5:11 pm

Sabo- OK got, I see what you meant. But yeah, either way, if Phx truly is on board with Marion and 4, then that blows away our Kwame/Odom/Bynum deal

Marion has enough star power to put butts in seats, especially if 4 is Noah, thats a phenomenal deal.
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Postby Sabo on Mon May 07, 2007 5:13 pm

crucifixion wrote:Sabo- OK got, I see what you meant. But yeah, either way, if Phx truly is on board with Marion and 4, then that blows away our Kwame/Odom/Bynum deal

Marion has enough star power to put butts in seats, especially if 4 is Noah, thats a phenomenal deal.


I don't think so. They'd get a much better deal if they take our package and move Odom to a 3rd team for an expiring, young prospect and draft pick. Especially the Celtics trade I posted earlier.

Nobody looks like a sure thing future all-star after Oden, Durant and B.Wright, who should all be gone by #3. People have forgotten how Marion was on the trading block before the Steve Nash and Amare Stoudmaire arrivals.
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Postby Sky on Mon May 07, 2007 5:15 pm

cruc - No one knows what the Bynum verdict is inside Ft. Buss. Can ask each member of the Gang of Four and get a different answer. We'll only have the answer to that when a deal is done...or a deal falls apart.

rayboi - I dont think Artest is likely either. It depends in my view on what offers Sac gets for Artest. If they get none then the Maloofs position of no deals with LA may be forced to change. Better to get cap relief and a mid 1st for Artest and Salmons than to just buy out Ron and watch LA sign him for MLE.
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Postby Laker's Fan on Mon May 07, 2007 5:18 pm

My favorite (somewhat realistic) offseason plan:

Trade Kwame, Odom & 19 for Tinsley & Oneal. Then trade Cook & Evans for Hassell [Obviously this deal requires McFail to trade with us but they are said to be willing to cycle Hassell out and Evans is a close friend of Garnett's. This would also make it easier for them to deal Davis] It works with Cooks BYC.

Tinsley, Farmar
Bryant, Hassell (time at SF but depth chart here)
Walton, Radman
Oneal, Turiaf
Bynum, Mihm

In stretches where defense is the key you could field SG-Bryant, SF-Hassell, PF-Ronny and C-Oneal and then hope that either Tinsley or Farmar can guard their man. If the other team has a big lineup you can switch it to Kobe/Hassell/Walton and hope Luke can stay with his man.
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Postby rayboi8 on Mon May 07, 2007 6:08 pm

Sky wrote:cruc - No one knows what the Bynum verdict is inside Ft. Buss. Can ask each member of the Gang of Four and get a different answer. We'll only have the answer to that when a deal is done...or a deal falls apart.

rayboi - I dont think Artest is likely either. It depends in my view on what offers Sac gets for Artest. If they get none then the Maloofs position of no deals with LA may be forced to change. Better to get cap relief and a mid 1st for Artest and Salmons than to just buy out Ron and watch LA sign him for MLE.


wait so if they dont get good enough offers for artest they would possibly buy him out. So is artest officially done there? Its either trade him or buy him out this summer? No wonder everyone is putting artest in their plans; if thats true then its something good i didnt know
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Postby purplengoldjonez on Mon May 07, 2007 6:10 pm

Sky thanks for all the great information. this is absolutely great stuff. I would be curious to see what you think are better odds.. Lakers FO pulling off something that would keep phil and kobe happy or kobe getting fed up and saying he wants out?
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Postby Sky on Mon May 07, 2007 6:27 pm

merged
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Postby Sky on Mon May 07, 2007 6:37 pm

Jonez - I think the odds favor Kobe and Phil sticking around. Doesn't necessarily mean LA will succeed in making the right deal, more about I don't see Kobe forcing his way out for another year even if LA fails to deliver on adding impact help.

JO is the best hope IF the Lakers are willing to give Bynum. Anyone's guess on that one.
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Postby d.carter4kobe on Mon May 07, 2007 6:49 pm

I have read all 4 pages...Thanks Sky


I really like the Artest deal but if NY offer Frye they win.....Frye was highly valued last year but had a bad year this year but I still wouldnt offer a young big for Artest but if they do they get Artest..nobody will offer something near Frye.plus they can take on big contracts..something like Francis(only 2 years left),Rose(only 2 years left) and Frye for Artest and K.Thomas and B.Miller

Larry Huges is a player to watch..but he has been playing good as of late so might have to mark him out....Mike James/R.Davis/M.Blount/T.Hassel could be in a deal(without KG) but that unlikely....

2 questions for you Sky
1.Sky whats up with R.Allen?What would it take to get a package of Zach Randoulph and J.Jack??We would have to trade out atleast 11.6mill

2.I really dont like the JO deal but I would take it...Tinsely huge contract and JO always beeing injured and when he is playing he is playing 80% of his shots are jumpers for a big...And KG looks like hes not getting traded that leaves Gasol...and why does it make it less likely Gasol gets traded here if West returns back to LA?
What about something like
Lakers trade-Drew/Vlad/Cook/2 2nds and cash
Lakers get-Pau Gasol
Memp. trade-Pau Gasol
Memp. get-Drew/Cook/Exp. contract from 3rd team
3rd team trade-Exp. contract
3rd team get-Vlad and 2 07 2nds

Kwame/Ronny/Mimh
Gasol/Fortson,Ely,or Skinner or M.Jackson(vets)/
Lamar/Luke/
Kobe/Evans/Sasha
Farmar/Hart(Vets)/Williams
And I would do a Walton and future 1st for Artest(still not better then NY)...and draft a poor-mans Luke Walton in D.Byars
Kwame/M.Jackson
Gasol/Ronny
Artest/Byars/
Kobe/Evans/Sasha
Lamar/Farmar/Hart

Edit: And thats if the Lakers shop Drew
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Postby NotCreative24 on Mon May 07, 2007 6:53 pm

But Sky didnt u say the guy who wanted Bynum the most, Donnie Walsh, is retiring? And Bird loves Odom so wouldn't a Kwame, Odom, 19 for JO and Tinsley be somewhat realistic?
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