Lakers draft blunder discussion : Patrick Beverly

Re: Lakers draft blunder discussion : Patrick Beverly

Postby DHL on Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:04 pm

when is patrick beverly's statue going to be unveiled?
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Re: Lakers draft blunder discussion : Patrick Beverly

Postby The Rock on Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:12 pm

We're talkin about needlessly dumping draft picks. No good has come out of doing this the last 4 years.
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Re: Lakers draft blunder discussion : Patrick Beverly

Postby LTLakerFan on Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:18 pm

Didn't Mitch before he had the wand working draft Sasha with Monta Ellis on the board? I know we overlooked him for one of our scrubs.
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Re: Lakers draft blunder discussion : Patrick Beverly

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:21 pm

The Rock wrote:We're talkin about needlessly dumping draft picks. No good has come out of doing this the last 4 years.


I understand what you're trying to convey. Unfortunately, this has happened a lot, and it's not good. Nevertheless, that has to stop now. With the new CBA in place, it is going to be vital to start drafting & developing young talent because the days of just outspending everyone are over because of the numerous penalties invoked by the new CBA for teams in bigger markets.
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Re: Lakers draft blunder discussion : Patrick Beverly

Postby Nashty Gal on Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:30 pm

he has the perfect last name for LA, damn it!
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Re: Lakers draft blunder discussion : Patrick Beverly

Postby Weezy on Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:33 pm

The Rock wrote:
OX1947 wrote:
The Rock wrote:^ they've gone a hell of a lot farther than we have


Really? Lakers went to 7 finals, Spurs 4.


Im talking about recently, last 2 years and now. What have you done for me lately


We won 2 championships in a row just a few seasons ago, and this offseason we traded for Dwight Howard, signed and trades for Steve Nash, and added Jamison and Meeks to bolster the bench, that's what they've done for us lately, do you realize how spoiled that question even sounds? Nobody really foresaw this team not clicking plus being the most injured team in the history of sports. As for Beverly, that's a reason to be mad? He's the difference between a championship team and what we have? No, and neither is anyone else we passed on in the drafts the past 3 offseasons, I don't see the cause for anger in this case of all things to be upset about.
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Re: Lakers draft blunder discussion : Patrick Beverly

Postby The Rock on Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:53 pm

Lets see.... you blame MDA for playing Kobe all those minutes

http://www.clublakers.com/post3855160.html#p3855160

Wouldn't a quality backup guard who can alleviate some of Kobe's responsibilities reduce Kobe's minutes and chances of injury? How do you feel about this now? Im just being sarcastic just to be clear but there is a dominio effect here.... if you're gonna reduce Kobe's minutes then you need quality backups in place...and that could've been achieved through the draft. Dumping picks like this in 09 wasn't helpful at all. Like I stated earlier we sold these picks for cash used to re-sign Lamar...I mean coming off a championship we did that.

I specifically alluded to Beverly in the OP but look at some of the names on that list in the OP that Lakers didnt draft (Thornton, Danny Green, Patty Mills, Budinger) and instead sold that pick...

They have to change the way they look at the draft. Free agency is a dead end. We dont have many tradeable assets


On a side note it was a huge mistake for the Lakers to not fill that 15th roster spot AFTER the trade deadline. When you have teams getting quality players of the street and becoming rotation contibutors (Chris Andersen, Mike James, Kenyon Martin). Why couldn't we? To be the best you gotta make moves in a manner some of these elite teams are doing
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Re: Lakers draft blunder discussion : Patrick Beverly

Postby Weezy on Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:03 am

I agree that we need to start getting better in the draft, I'm just saying Beverly is all hindsight, like somebody pointed out, the Heat got rid of him too. Those other guys you listed, that is a matter of needing better scouting I would assume. It does seem like it's time to get better here, but after doing it one way for decades you don't just change your style overnight, the Lakers will need time to adjust to this new low cap NBA, not even sure Jim knows where to start. As for Kobe's backup, even if we had Beverly 'Antoni would run Kobe into the ground. It's what he does, he always played Nash a ton, he played Melo a ton, he overuses stars to stay competitive. Meeks sucks, but he's more well known than Beverly and if he can't even get Kobe a break it would take a big name bench player or something, not a draft pick, the Lakers don't work that way. It sucks sometimes, but I can't really complain over a draft pick, especially not angrily, because we went to 7 finals and won 5 titles from 2000-2010 doing it that way, spending money to win.
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Re: Lakers draft blunder discussion : Patrick Beverly

Postby jlkr on Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:15 am

Kinda reminds of that whole controversy over missing Barbosa way back when. Sky was in fine form in those days.
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Re: Lakers draft blunder discussion : Patrick Beverly

Postby CaCHooKa Man on Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:39 am

i just had to google who patrick beverly was
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Re: Lakers draft blunder discussion : Patrick Beverly

Postby LTLakerFan on Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:50 am

jlkr wrote:Kinda reminds of that whole controversy over missing Barbosa way back when. Sky was in fine form in those days.


Barbosa and Ellis in their primes wouldn't have sucked for some relief and running mates for Kobe but it was all about the" Tri" back then too.
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Re: Lakers draft blunder discussion : Patrick Beverly

Postby KBJelleyBean24 on Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:55 am

To be fair, we have never had to draft great to be a great team. One of the perks of playing in the second largest market and having great history and great weather. The Spurs on the other hand...are the Spurs. They live in small market San Antonio where no free agent want's to play, so they adapted. They hired great scouts and draft extremely well. The Lakers didn't foresee the league painting a giant bulls-eye on their back with this CBA. Obviously now it's going to be extremely important for this team to hold on to it's picks and get better at drafting.
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Re: Lakers draft blunder discussion : Patrick Beverly

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:10 am

Hindsight on all levels is crystal clear. However, the Lakers have contended pretty much every decade for the last 30+ years. Every team has challenges and rebuilds but LA has done it with less gaps than any other team, period. I disagree with the whole premise of this thread considering what the Lakers have accomplished over the years. We are 3 years removed from our last Championship. That Spurs team, however, are 5 years removed from a championship.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Lakers draft blunder discussion : Patrick Beverly

Postby abeer3 on Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:15 am

the spurs are a great organization, but imo, since they got ahead of the euro curve in the late 90s/early 2000s, they haven't really killed it in the draft. people salivate over the danny greens and gary neals (scrap heap signings, which i consider to be akin to the draft), but the truth is that those guys work because of duncan, parker, ginobili, popovich and the fact that those 4 have allowed the spurs to keep a consistent identity for 10+ years. green was a washout before SA and will likely washout after. very few of their recent finds have gone on to be successful elsewhere, yet everyone they pick up seems to work. pattern recognition tells me it's not the players; it's the system.

the lakers have been successful in finding quality bench guys as throw-ins or minor trades (ariza, hill, clark).

finally, if the shoe was on the other foot: SA was missing ginobili, and parker, green, and neal were all nursing fairly serious injuries, and they were playing a full strength lakers team, the spurs board would be whining about how they fail to land the big fish like howard (which required drafting bynum, a bigger hit than the spurs have had in a decade).
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Re: Lakers draft blunder discussion : Patrick Beverly

Postby JGC on Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:13 am

If this was a blunder for the Lakers, then it was a blunder for every single team in the NBA. When you have a situation where the same could be said for every single team, or, nearly ever single team, then it isn't a blunder.

And this is before you look at the context in which this occurred which is during the championship years. Maybe then it would have SOME legs (but really tiny minuscule ones, haha) if this happened during a rebuild year but it didn't. It happened during a championship year instead.
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Re: Lakers draft blunder discussion : Patrick Beverly

Postby khmrP on Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:26 am

I think mgmt. has taken to much of a "whatever" type attitude when it comes to drafting since Phil came on, a blessing and a curse, we won but we usually drafted triangle type high IQ players and when those types didn't work out seems like mgmt. treated draft picks like a disease.....pretty much got rid of them as soon as we got them. Granted most where last or 2nd to last picks but even these have yielded nice role players depending on how we could've developed them. The oddest pick trade was Sasha, I never seen a team giving away a 1st rd pick to dump an expiring contract like Sasha before, usually teams get assests in return for expiring.
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Re: Lakers draft blunder discussion : Patrick Beverly

Postby therealdeal on Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:37 am

TaniBoyz wrote:why is it a blunder?
the money we got from the trade allowed us to pay for Odom, etc.
which helped us to win the chip the next year

This. :man10:

We won a Championship partly off the money that was given up by the pick. And yet that's a blunder? :man10:

Sorry, but it's just so spoiled of a thought. We need EVERY good pick we get, to win EVERY year, to sign ALL the best players, and to NEVER STOP doing that.

Look we gave up a pick, so what? Who cares? Would Beverly be saving us right now? Would Beverly be helping us win a Championship this season or during the season we DID win?

Every team misses people in the draft, that's what makes the draft exciting.
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Re: Lakers draft blunder discussion : Patrick Beverly

Postby Chillbongo on Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:49 am

Did we win a ring that year?

Seriously, you can go back and do this for almost every draft. Not only that we wouldn't develop them. And clearly we're not the best evaluates of draft talent, likely because we don't care about up and coming players. We want talent now.

Over the past 5 years this team has been in CONTENDER mode. We dont give a rats a** about draft picks because we had/have a roster capable of contending. Seriously, go look at the last 5-7 Laker drafts. You'll want to start like 8 more threads.
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Re: Lakers draft blunder discussion : Patrick Beverly

Postby The Rock on Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:55 am

You guys are missing the point...we gave away draft picks in a negligent manner you dont think it would help in the future AFTER we won the championships? With each passing year we're getting worse and worse if you haven't noticed we need youth and it could've been addressed towards the draft

And like I said we got like $2 mil from the Knicks to re-sign Lamar. GREAT. We could've still re-signed him without selling that pick while still having some young players on the roster, thats my point.
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Re: Lakers draft blunder discussion : Patrick Beverly

Postby Doc Brown on Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:59 am

Argument A.) We should save picks to build on youth = Valid.

Argument B.) We could of got "X", "Y", "Z" in this draft, this draft, etc. = Redundant
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Re: Lakers draft blunder discussion : Patrick Beverly

Postby Chillbongo on Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:11 am

The Rock wrote:You guys are missing the point...we gave away draft picks in a negligent manner you dont think it would help in the future AFTER we won the championships? With each passing year we're getting worse and worse if you haven't noticed we need youth and it could've been addressed towards the draft

And like I said we got like $2 mil from the Knicks to re-sign Lamar. GREAT. We could've still re-signed him without selling that pick while still having some young players on the roster, thats my point.


If you're talking about starting with the 2010-11 year, then I agree. But not back in 2009. We had Sasha, Shannon, Farmar, Fisher, and Kobe. There really wasn't room for another guard. Especially one that wasn't going to be used (Phil) or focused on (Championship).

Sure, the last two years were stupid. But again to my original point....contender mode. I think it's ridiculous we gave up 2 solid draft picks for Nash, but the idea was that we wouldn't need them. Contend/win now, Kobe/Nash/Pau retire...have Dwight to entice new players.

Do I agree with it? Hell no...I think it's stupid as hell. The last time this team was truly a "young team" was from 1995-1999. That's over 15 years ago. We need that again for sure, but to go to your original point of Beverly, there was absolutely no reason to keep him around, or a bunch of other guys we could've gotten in the last 5-7 years. Plus I think we aren't the best evaluates of draft talent.

More recently we've really f***** it up. Odom could have been moved for at least 2 picks and the TPE. Blame Stern for that one. The Steve Nash trade was too much on our end both monetarily and pick wise...for a 39 year old. And did we really have to attach a 1st rounder to Cleveland with Luke Walton if we weren't going to retain Sessions? Irresponsible decision making....I know Mitch is better than that.

We know Jimmy is behind this...he was all for Nash (and so were we) but clearly this wasn't thought through, and now we're dealing with it.
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Re: Lakers draft blunder discussion : Patrick Beverly

Postby Center Court on Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:48 am

Our brass is horrible at drafting and rounding out a bench. A at trades, A at player retention, D+ at free agency, D at drafting.

It seems like when Phil was here, we were exceptionally good at it but this summer we tried so hard to save money that we let players go we should have kept and over the past few years, we traded away picks/didn't buy picks when we had the chance.
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Re: Lakers draft blunder discussion : Patrick Beverly

Postby KBJelleyBean24 on Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:15 pm

We won 2 championships and were in the finals 3 years in a row. Eventually you have to pay the piper, and that is what has happened the last 2 years and most likely next season. We will hit the reset button after next season when all the contracts come of the books, and will most likely be able to sign better, younger players.
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Re: Lakers draft blunder discussion : Patrick Beverly

Postby Weezy on Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:42 pm

The Rock wrote:You guys are missing the point...we gave away draft picks in a negligent manner you dont think it would help in the future AFTER we won the championships? With each passing year we're getting worse and worse if you haven't noticed we need youth and it could've been addressed towards the draft

And like I said we got like $2 mil from the Knicks to re-sign Lamar. GREAT. We could've still re-signed him without selling that pick while still having some young players on the roster, thats my point.


I don't think we're missing the point, the counterpoint is just that this is not new for the Lakers. The same thing happened to us after 3 in a row with Kobe and Shaq, our bench was old and we weren't drafting long term help because we were winning. 2003 we ran out of gas as teams going for 4 in a row do, and 2004 it caught up with us bad when Malone went down and Payton wasn't as good anymore. This is what happens when you have to keep paying to keep a championship team together, you may cut costs on end of the bench guys, guy may sell away 2nd rounders you don't plan to develop or feel you don't have time to develop. That's what those Shaq/Kobe teams did, that's what the Kobe/Pau teams did as well.

We drafted some really good to decent help when we had down years in Bynum, Farmar, and Turiaf, but we've been pretty bad during success. What has changed is what I think pretty much everyone can agree on, the NBA is different now, cap is low, we will probably need to start doing better in the draft going forward, trying to seriously find cheap middle of the bench guys that can contribute, that are actually worth developing. I doubt the draft is going to start being our thing though, free agents will always be our main source of talent I think, for better or worse.
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Re: Lakers draft blunder discussion : Patrick Beverly

Postby JGC on Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:05 pm

^ Plus, it isn't very realistic to think you can...

- Keep all your draft picks
- Severely limit spending
- Win all the championships

Real life doesn't work that way. That's why threads like these bug me. Makes me wanna be like David after Dentist and say "Is this real life?"
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