Lakers executive Jim Buss says 'we're not going to panic'

therealdeal wrote:Exactly, the dynamic in the FO that Jim has full rein just really is all speculation.

Do you guys really think Jerry would allow his son to have full control of a 100 million dollar budget and what his quite literally the livelihood of that family? Do you think Jerry would just give control over to the guy without having any control whatsoever?

In fact, when Brown was fired many people thought it was Jerry would made the final call. You guys don't think Jerry would then have a say in D'Antoni's hiring? Things just don't add up when we as fans start making those assumptions about the front office.

Ok, we can agree on that.

therealdeal wrote: When the Lakers approached him he should have said without hesitation: "I want this team, I can make them a Champion." Instead he needed a few days to mull things over? To me, that means he's done. To me, that means he isn't up for the job.

Those are just words. Anyone who has been a manager and hired/fired people for any amount of time knows that. (cheap shot at Jim? )

I'm sure MDA said words to those effect and look where we are.

I'd take the guy who has proven he can do it over the guy who talks a good game about what it MIGHT be like to do it.

therealdeal wrote:

lakerswiz wrote:

therealdeal wrote:I understand we're all frustrated with this season so far, but what else do you want from the man?

Better decisions upfront so we don't get to this point.

Mike Dan Tony was not a great choice. Was not a good choice. Is not even a decent choice. It was a terrible choice. It should have never even been in their minds. It shows the basketball knowledge of Jim Buss and it shows how senile Jerry has gotten.

If Jimmy is going to keep running the team like this, it's going to get really hard to put up with.

I disagree absolutely.

Who else would have been better? Phil? Financially it was irresponsible, he would have had marginal success for this team, and he wouldn't have necessarily maximized the use of Nash while trying to take the reins from Kobe a bit offensively.

D'Antoni might be failing thus far, but his hire was not the hight of stupidity at the time. There were positives to what he would bring and those positives haven't overcome the negatives. Oh well. It was a calculated risk that didn't pay off, or hasn't thus far.

And that compeletely ignores the fact that the man opened his check book and is spending more than anyone else in the league BY FAR for this team. He's put together a team with tremendous talent and a tremendous resume and THEY are not performing at a Championship level with consistency. For the man's faults, he has positives as well.

Most fans choose to ignore them completely.

Wow! Phil with this Kobe and this squad...marginal?...you're kidding, right?
He opened up his check book?...you're kidding, right?
Nash wouldn't have been effective in the tri...one of the best statistical jumpshooters in the league and one of the best passing players installed into a motion offense....you're kidding, right?

At the very least, Phil would have found a rotation that works and stuck with it. Him and Rambis would have installed a defensive system that didn't allow nearly 110 a night. Also, there is no doubt in my mind that Phil would be much better than a sub .500 record with this team.

Why do people keep focusing on Phil's last year here? That was an anomaly....and still with Kobe on one leg and Pau clearly being distracted by something off the court, we made the playoffs and ran into a team that just couldn't miss from 3. I'll tell you this....I would be more pissed if we gave up continued dunks to Dallas with Drew and Pau in there, compared to giving up the long ball. Props to Dallas for making them...but if you want to give up a shot in basketball...its better to give them up at a distance.

Ego got in the way and its clearly hurting the team! If anything, just follow dear old Dad. The good Dr. made Magic decide what direction this team went. We made a coaching change and Showtime was born. Kobe saying that D'Antoni was a great option is all lip service. During weekend at Bernies, Kobe gushed over how he let Phil down in his last season here and wanted to be given another chance. If your star player says, has had 5 rings to his name being one of the star players featured in that system and the fans are chanting to bring back the most winningest coach ever....you better check your ego at the door and make the proper accommodations. You do not go the other way to accommodate a 38 year old, when your 26 year old (who isn't signed for the next 3 years) wanted the other guy while he was in Orlando.

Jimmy has the audacity to say that he has 100% backing by the fans, when it was the fans at Staples that could audibly be heard saying we want Phil in November and again, just last game. Jimmy had to come out of hiding as a PR move and alot of his comments can't be held against him....but there are those select few comments that are down right insulting to the majority of our fan base.

lakerswiz wrote:Jim doesn't have full reign. But he seemingly has the most at this point.

He chose a coach that wants to run a fast paced offense with a team that is filled with guys over the hill.

That is straight up just freaking stupid.

And look where we're at...

No he didn't. His father did.

Texas Lakers Fan wrote:

lakerswiz wrote:Jim doesn't have full reign. But he seemingly has the most at this point.

He chose a coach that wants to run a fast paced offense with a team that is filled with guys over the hill.

That is straight up just freaking stupid.

And look where we're at...

No he didn't. His father did.

None of us know for sure who is weilding the decision making power in the FO right now, or if it is truly by committee.

No sense arguing over things that we have ZERO info on.

phoenixrisingla wrote:

therealdeal wrote: When the Lakers approached him he should have said without hesitation: "I want this team, I can make them a Champion." Instead he needed a few days to mull things over? To me, that means he's done. To me, that means he isn't up for the job.

Those are just words. Anyone who has been a manager and hired/fired people for any amount of time knows that. (cheap shot at Jim? )

I'm sure MDA said words to those effect and look where we are.

I'd take the guy who has proven he can do it over the guy who talks a good game about what it MIGHT be like to do it.

I'm not arguing FOR D'Antoni per se, all I'm doing is trying to point out that it's not ONLY Buss's fault that we are where we are.

Phil just doesn't want to coach any more. He doesn't want to do it. We as fans want him to because we love him and the glory days, but he's done. He was given the opportunity to coach what should have been a super team and he needed time to think about it. You think Phil of 2008-2010 would need to think about it? Or you think he'd have a plan ready to go and would be salivating at the opportunity for it?

That's it right there. He just doesn't have the desire to coach any more. And once that desire is gone, the magic is gone. Watch the 2011 season for an example. His heart wasn't in that last series the way it usually is. He made mistakes he never usually made. From everything I've seen, we'd probably have seen some similar mistakes here this season.

therealdeal wrote:

phoenixrisingla wrote:

therealdeal wrote: When the Lakers approached him he should have said without hesitation: "I want this team, I can make them a Champion." Instead he needed a few days to mull things over? To me, that means he's done. To me, that means he isn't up for the job.

Those are just words. Anyone who has been a manager and hired/fired people for any amount of time knows that. (cheap shot at Jim? )

I'm sure MDA said words to those effect and look where we are.

I'd take the guy who has proven he can do it over the guy who talks a good game about what it MIGHT be like to do it.

I'm not arguing FOR D'Antoni per se, all I'm doing is trying to point out that it's not ONLY Buss's fault that we are where we are.

Phil just doesn't want to coach any more. He doesn't want to do it. We as fans want him to because we love him and the glory days, but he's done. He was given the opportunity to coach what should have been a super team and he needed time to think about it. You think Phil of 2008-2010 would need to think about it? Or you think he'd have a plan ready to go and would be salivating at the opportunity for it?

That's it right there. He just doesn't have the desire to coach any more. And once that desire is gone, the magic is gone. Watch the 2011 season for an example. His heart wasn't in that last series the way it usually is. He made mistakes he never usually made. From everything I've seen, we'd probably have seen some similar mistakes here this season.

Just like I mentioned in my last post, how can you possibly say that?? You can try to revise history if you want to, but he was VERY interested in coaching this team. And you can also keep referring to 2011 if you want, but you do remember that was after winning two titles and we got bumped by the eventual champs in the 2nd round... right???

How does that stack up to what we're looking at this year?

He not "uninterested in coaching any more" as you say. He just uninterested in coaching teams that wont give him a shot at winning.

Picking up his whole life at his age and moving to a struggling Nets team where he could end his career on a HUGE downturn? NO CRAP HE'S NOT INTERESTED IN THAT. He doesnt want to rebuild a team.

To say that he's "used up" or "done" and is incapable of successfully leading the Lakers because he is turning down jobs HE DOESNT WANT is just plain silly.

Vasashi17 wrote:[Wow! Phil with this Kobe and this squad...marginal?...you're kidding, right?

No. Why would I be kidding? How would Phil Jackson have gotten this injury ridden team up significantly over .500 at this point? Do you honestly think he would have gotten this team farther despite the injuries we've had? No team is going to survive long missing it's starting Hall of Fame point gaurd for most of the season, it's Hall of Fame (albeit struggling) power forward for chunks of time, it's backup point gaurd for half the season, and it's now it's starting and backup center for chunks of time.

Do you really think he'd have this team significantly better? Because that's honestly just wishful thinking.

Vasashi17 wrote:He opened up his check book?...you're kidding, right?

No. Buss and his father opened up their check book to the tune of 100 million dollars in roster payments alone, not counting taxes. What's kidding about that?

Vasashi17 wrote:Nash wouldn't have been effective in the tri...one of the best statistical jumpshooters in the league and one of the best passing players installed into a motion offense....you're kidding, right?

Where the hell in my post did I say that?

I never said Nash wouldn't have been effective. I have said that Nash would be LESS effective and that can't possibly be denied. He would have the ball in his hands FAR, FAR less which would limit his ability to run the team... Bringing in D'Antoni, someone with whom he's had success so that they can hopefully get the team feeling comfortable makes sense. Who do you think Nash would feel more comfortable with? The man who created an offense based on making Nash comfortable, or the man who's offense would take the ball out of his hand?

Notcie I'm not asking which would be more successful, I'm asking which would make Nash most comfortable. I know you can follow that line of logic whether or not you agree with it.

For whatever reason it's hard for me post more length at work (the screen starts jumping around...) so I'll respond to the rest later. This will have to do for now.

And remember, I AM NOT ADVOCATING THAT JIM IS PERFECT. All that I'm saying is that he doesn't deserve any more or less blame than anyone else for this situation.

phoenixrisingla wrote:That's it right there. He just doesn't have the desire to coach any more. And once that desire is gone, the magic is gone. Watch the 2011 season for an example. His heart wasn't in that last series the way it usually is. He made mistakes he never usually made. From everything I've seen, we'd probably have seen some similar mistakes here this season.

Just like I mentioned in my last post, how can you possibly say that?? You can try to revise history if you want to, but he was VERY interested in coaching this team. And you can keep referring to 2011 i fyou want, but you do remember that was afer winning two titles and we got bumped by the eventual champs in the 2nd round... right??? [/quote]
How am I revising history? Where did I go back and change anything? Did it NOT take a weekend for him to sit back and think about whether or not he wanted to coach this team? Did I imagine reading that? Did I imagine that weekend?

Why did he have to THINK about it? This team was, and still is, to win NOW and to win it all. There's obvious holes in the roster, but there was reason we were so excited this summer. This team DOES have talent. This team DOES have what it takes physically. Maybe not mentally, but that's another story.

If we can all see that and we all know that and Phil agrees, then why did it take so long for him to say yes? Why didn't he just say "I'm interested right now, I'd like to be the coach" when he was approached?

I bring up 2012 because of the coaching errors he made. You can't tell me he coached well in that series.

lakerswiz wrote:Jim doesn't have full reign. But he seemingly has the most at this point.

He chose a coach that wants to run a fast paced offense with a team that is filled with guys over the hill.

That is straight up just freaking stupid.

And look where we're at...

Again, you JUST said Jim doesn't have full reign, it only seems that way.

Then you say HE chose the coach. So which is it? Does he have full reign or not? Did he choose the coach by himself or was he just part of the group?

^^^ TRD, Really feels like youre arguing just to argue man.

This is a business. When you are looking to hire the best, its not the same process as hiring someone looking to get their foot in the door.

We had to move on because the winningest coach of all time wanted to sleep on it??? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds???

How many job interviews have you been on where they made you commit at the end of the interview? That's not how it works when you're trying to hire top talent. That's how it works when you're hiring for the mail room.

THEY DIDNT WANT HIM, for who knows what reasons. And now we'll likely never know what could have been.

From Jim interview yesterday (the part I heard) sounded as if he did pick MDA but had some doubts but it was Jerry who pushed him to go with it as that was his initial decision to begin with.

No I don't! I have no idea how ridiculous that sounds, it sounds just fine to me.

Have you ever heard the quote "Once a guy starts talking about retirement, he's already retired" ?

It means he's checked out mentally. From everything I've read, that's where Phil is. He gave us one last shot in 2012, it wasn't his best effort and so now he's moved on. Everything I've read says that Phil had no real interest in coaching until we approached him. He had some ideas, he had some thoughts on it, but he was never really interested in the day-to-day operations, the details, the traveling. I know some of those reports were overblown (he didn't intend to miss all road games), but the fact is we know he was tired of those things in 2011.

This is getting way off topic though. let's move this discussion to some Phil Jackson thread if you'd like to continue it.

khmrP wrote:From Jim interview yesterday (the part I heard) sounded as if he did pick MDA but had some doubts but it was Jerry who pushed him to go with it as that was his initial decision to begin with.

I'll have to give it another listen, I didnt pick up on that. Got the opposite vibe actually.

Have any time markers so I dont have to listen to the whole thing and get pissed all over again?

Real, no reason to respond to me from work...get that paper bro! Haha.

But seriously, I've discussed this ad nauseam and I'm sure you feel the same way.

Bottomline for me is that management had the right idea by wanting to partner Kobe with CP3 and Dwight. Then plan B happened where we became much older, while retaining 2 centers. At that point, management needed to abandon the Showtime revival and revisit it when you have today's Magic possibly available in 2014.

Phil was flying his agent out on Monday to negotiate terms and that is telling enough of how much he wanted to come back to coach THIS team. This man is in the family through Jeanie, has given you numerous rings and banners and you give him a midnight call, not to congratulate him on his return, but rather to eliminate him from contention....com'n man?!? How can you do that to your own?

Unless there is more to it...and its hard to dispute just as much. You had Rambis and Duffy both calling for Jimmy's head...not Jerry's or Mitch's. You had Magic do the same.

Then they gave us some ridiculous explanation by discrediting the triangle and stating that this roster was more suited for D'Antoni's uptempo system. Now Buss comes out and says that fans back this garbage 100%. He's flipped us the bird multiple times now and treats us like many have treated him...like delinquents.

That is what has really turned me off and made me ice cold towards management. I refuse to be some cheerleader throwing poms poms over the poo poo. This product stinks and it starts up top. Like Chickie baby, I'm going to express my concerns and criticize the team when warranted.

This is not working and to think that it all stems from ego is truly unsettling.

therealdeal wrote:No I don't! I have no idea how ridiculous that sounds, it sounds just fine to me.

Have you ever heard the quote "Once a guy starts talking about retirement, he's already retired" ?

It means he's checked out mentally. From everything I've read, that's where Phil is. He gave us one last shot in 2012, it wasn't his best effort and so now he's moved on. Everything I've read says that Phil had no real interest in coaching until we approached him. He had some ideas, he had some thoughts on it, but he was never really interested in the day-to-day operations, the details, the traveling. I know some of those reports were overblown (he didn't intend to miss all road games), but the fact is we know he was tired of those things in 2011.

This is getting way off topic though. let's move this discussion to some Phil Jackson thread if you'd like to continue it.

Well since my degree's aren't in Psych, I guess I'll have to let you judge his mental state by reading excepts selected by members of the media .

And if that doesn't sound ridiculous to you, I dont know what to say.

You seem like a cool guy and intelligent person, but that's how business works. You dont try to force the best CEO in the country to take your job, then give it to his much less accomplished peer if he doesn't accept immediately at the interview table without his agent or lawyers present.

Because if you DO do that, you get results like this.

I'll say it again, I (and most laker fans I know) would trade 2011 for this year in a heartbeat.

OOps TRD, you're right this is way off topic. To be continued in another thread...

phoenixrisingla wrote:You seem like a cool guy and intelligent person, but that's how business works. You dont try to force the best CEO in the country to take your job, then give it to his much less accomplished peer if he doesn't accept immediately at the interview table without his agent or lawyers present.

I know business my friend and I understand what you're saying.

But you realize what you're requesting is akin to say...

A printer company has a salesman who carries them for 50 years. After a tough stretch he retires happily. The company starts struggling without him, so they ask him back. But he JUST retired! He just decided he was done and wanted out... he's comfortable now.

See what I'm getting at? Please respond, but I won't respond back, let's find our way home on this thread

Vasashi17 wrote:Real, no reason to respond to me from work...get that paper bro! Haha.

But seriously, I've discussed this ad nauseam and I'm sure you feel the same way.

Bottomline for me is that management had the right idea by wanting to partner Kobe with CP3 and Dwight. Then plan B happened where we became much older, while retaining 2 centers. At that point, management needed to abandon the Showtime revival and revisit it when you have today's Magic possibly available in 2014.

Phil was flying his agent out on Monday to negotiate terms and that is telling enough of how much he wanted to come back to coach THIS team. This man is in the family through Jeanie, has given you numerous rings and banners and you give him a midnight call, not to congratulate him on his return, but rather to eliminate him from contention....com'n man?!? How can you do that to your own?

Unless there is more to it...and its hard to dispute just as much. You had Rambis and Duffy both calling for Jimmy's head...not Jerry's or Mitch's. You had Magic do the same.

Then they gave us some ridiculous explanation by discrediting the triangle and stating that this roster was more suited for D'Antoni's uptempo system. Now Buss comes out and says that fans back this garbage 100%. He's flipped us the bird multiple times now and treats us like many have treated him...like delinquents.

That is what has really turned me off and made me ice cold towards management. I refuse to be some cheerleader throwing poms poms over the poo poo. This product stinks and it starts up top. Like Chickie baby, I'm going to express my concerns and criticize the team when warranted.

This is not working and to think that it all stems from ego is truly unsettling.

If iyou're willing to blame MANAGEMENT and not just JIM then I'm totally behind you. I don't necessarily disagree with a lot of what you're saying. All that I'm saying is that JIM isn't the only one to blame and all I want is for that blame to be passed around to everyone. To the top of management including Jerry, including Mitch, including Jim, to the players for not giving their 100% effort regardless of the situation, and all the way to us fans at the bottom of the pole.

TRD, I can see your point, but for me this analogy is more apt:

You just came out with a new line of printers and are looking to go to the next level.

Best salesmen in the country who is still in exceptionally high demand and being contacted by other printer companies looking to procure his services wants to work with you.

Because he doesn't IMMEDIATELY accept something that was never a firm offer during a casual Saturday meeting, you hire his less accomplished peer over the phone?

Still doesnt add up for me.

Loved the debate though. Agree to disagree.

lakerswiz wrote:I was under the impression that a few weeks after the signing (after we all already did this same exact argument) there were articles that came out that had said this was done by Jim more so than anyone else associated with the team.

Did that not happen?

After the crap storm came down when they hired D' Antoni, Jerry came out publicly and said he had been his choice. How much of that you think is deflecting the blame from his son, you'll have to speculate . . . none of that will ever be clear to us. Perhaps it was all Jerry's call to hire D' Antoni, or mostly his. Who knows?

However, one thing's for sure - Jim Buss was running the show and was responsible as active owner of the way things went down with this hire and the way Phil got stabbed in the back and fans' hopes run over.

Jerry Buss didn't meet with Phil. Jim did. And Jim has been running the show as active owner for some time now. Jerry made the call to fire Brown. Sounds like he was mostly in charge of the decision to hire D' Antoni as well. But Jim has been doing the day to day ownership for a couple years now.

Sorry, realdeal, have to take issue with your assertion that Phil didn't want this coaching job. I think he did want it. His agent was coming in on a red eye flight to negotiate on Monday. They woke Phil up at midnight on Sunday night to tell him that the job was already filled after feeding us with these kind of statements "Phil Jackson 95% done deal" over that weekend.

They played us and they played him. They didn't want him for the job. They already had D' Antoni in the back pocket and they ran that little media circus "for our benefit." But they dissed him and then they had the audacity to diss the fans with the whole act, and then afterwards. They paraded Mitch out there and made him say "we aren't here to please the fan base . . ." Sure. Then why go through the charade to begin with. Just be honest about hiring D' Antoni from the start. No most fans wouldn't like it, but they wouldn't have been as disappointed. They would have gotten over the whole thing much quicker and easier. As it stands this is still a topic of conversation long after the fact.

I'm sorry you guys are just reading into this like some conspiracy theory. Did the U.S. government also orchestrate 9/11?

Jim Buss did not go solo to Phil's house. Mitch went with him, they both said they left feeling like Phil might have been interested. And like I said: if he "might" have been interested, if there was a modicum of doubt, then he wasn't the man for the job.

I really think you're all living in the past, but I've said my piece. I made my point.

therealdeal wrote:I'm sorry you guys are just reading into this like some conspiracy theory. Did the U.S. government also orchestrate 9/11?

Jim Buss did not go solo to Phil's house. Mitch went with him, they both said they left feeling like Phil might have been interested. And like I said: if he "might" have been interested, if there was a modicum of doubt, then he wasn't the man for the job.

I really think you're all living in the past, but I've said my piece. I made my point.

This is where people are taking issue with you and mgmt (if that is in fact how they felt).

If thats how they felt the it reinforces to us they made the wrong choice. No one who is as accomplished in their field as Phil Jackson has to jump at a potential offer without carefully considering it.

Other teams are wooing/beggin him to come, and we move on because he didnt sign the contract in his living room??? THE MAN"S AGENT WAS FLYING OUT FOR MONDAY!

Makes no sense whatsoever.

Fact is, they didnt want him and the meeting was merely lip service.

lakerswiz wrote:I was under the impression that a few weeks after the signing (after we all already did this same exact argument) there were articles that came out that had said this was done by Jim more so than anyone else associated with the team.

Did that not happen?

The articles I saw all said this was 90% Jerry Buss's decision. Jim Buss apparently can't even own up to his own mistakes.

#IWantedPhil

lakerswiz wrote:I was under the impression that a few weeks after the signing (after we all already did this same exact argument) there were articles that came out that had said this was done by Jim more so than anyone else associated with the team.

Did that not happen?

It's jimmy's credit, as a chip off the old block, when it works. But, it's Daddy Buss' credit when it doesn't work. This is what happens when a loving Father covers his less talented son's a$$. But, only a cowardly son would let his old sickly Father take the blame.

If jimmy isn't confident enough to stand tall by his decisions, and make better business decisions, by now, then he's wasting time and money. So far I calculate that he is wasting $7mm a year in coaching salaries.

lotus wrote:

lakerswiz wrote:I was under the impression that a few weeks after the signing (after we all already did this same exact argument) there were articles that came out that had said this was done by Jim more so than anyone else associated with the team.

Did that not happen?

It's jimmy's credit, as a chip off the old block, when it works. But, it's Daddy Buss' credit when it doesn't work. This is what happens when a loving Father covers his less talented son's a$$. But, only a cowardly son would let his old sickly Father take the blame.

If jimmy isn't confident enough to stand tall by his decisions, and make better business decisions, by now, then he's wasting time and money. So far I calculate that he is wasting $7mm a year in coaching salaries.

I be fair, he is standing by them so far I think. Just said yesterday that he still has 100% confidence that MDA was the right choice.

A dumb thing to say perhaps, but at least he's sticking to his guns and not hiding.