Lakers Interested In Leandro Barbosa?

Re: Lakers Interested In Leandro Barbosa?

Postby therealdeal on Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:42 am

Doc Brown wrote:I don't know the stats either way for PG or SG. But Barbosa played all of his minutes at SG last season, his role wasn't to be the PG, it was to score. To be fair in this argument IMO, you need to look back at the Suns days when Barbosa played PG.

It could be that he was actually worse or better. I don't know, just pointing out that Barbosa didn't play PG last year, so those stats you can't really compare.

The problem with that is the offense for the Suns was inflated, especially for role players like Barbosa. But I'll take out his Phoenix seasons here:
- his best season ever was 06-07 where he averaged 18 pts/2.7 rbnds/4.0 asts. His ast/to ratio was 2.22 still not great, but at least over 2 assists per turnover. If he played this well getting about 20 min. a game (Nash gets at least 30) he'd average 11/1.7/2.5 with 1.1 turnovers. Not terrible and remarkably similar to his numbers with Indiana (9/2.2/1.5 with 1.2 turnovers). Given he was more of a PG in Phoenix and more of a SG in Indiana, the differences make sense. The key difference is that he shot much better from the field in Phoenix.
- his totals in Phoenix were 1208 assists and 698 turnovers good for a 1.73 assist to turnover ratio.

He's just not a good PG. He's a SG with the size and speed of a PG. I think he'd be a good fit if we didn't have Meeks, but I don't have faith in his ability to move the ball. If he was brought here for depth, I'm all for it. Barbosa for the minimum is a great pickup, but I just don't understand why people think he could replace Blake as the backup PG and do a better job of distributing. He'd be a better scorer, but not a better passer. We have shooters/scorers now on the bench in Meeks and Jamison so who passes the ball?
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Re: Lakers Interested In Leandro Barbosa?

Postby therealdeal on Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:54 am

OX1947 wrote:I have to question some of you who, apparently, do not watch basketball games other then the Lakers. Barbosa for the vet min is highway robbery. And while he isnt a conventional PG, that guy is the perfect bench scorer we need who CAN handle the ball. Lakers need scoring, experience and speed off the bench. If you tell me he is a bad signing, then you have no clue whats going on.

I believe if they do sign him, Mitch has to trade Blake. Duhon isnt a big deal, his last season in 2014 is partially guaranteed, so they can cut him if they can not trade him.

I have to question some of you who don't read posts thoroughly.

I'm not saying, nor have I ever said, we shouldn't sign Barbosa if we can. I said it doesn't make sense unless Blake is gone financially. He is not only not a convential PG, he's not a good PG. Blake is not a better player, he is the better PG.

The Lakers have scoring and experience off the bench in Jamison. They need youth and athleticism, which neither Blake nor Barbosa have.

No one said he'd be a bad signing.
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Re: Lakers Interested In Leandro Barbosa?

Postby LooN3y on Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:58 am

I'm pretty sure having barbosa drive and push the ball and either scoring or dishing is better than Blake being on the floor period
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Re: Lakers Interested In Leandro Barbosa?

Postby Doc Brown on Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:03 am

therealdeal wrote:The problem with that is the offense for the Suns was inflated, especially for role players like Barbosa. But I'll take out his Phoenix seasons here:
- his best season ever was 06-07 where he averaged 18 pts/2.7 rbnds/4.0 asts. His ast/to ratio was 2.22 still not great, but at least over 2 assists per turnover. If he played this well getting about 20 min. a game (Nash gets at least 30) he'd average 11/1.7/2.5 with 1.1 turnovers. Not terrible and remarkably similar to his numbers with Indiana (9/2.2/1.5 with 1.2 turnovers). Given he was more of a PG in Phoenix and more of a SG in Indiana, the differences make sense. The key difference is that he shot much better from the field in Phoenix.
- his totals in Phoenix were 1208 assists and 698 turnovers good for a 1.73 assist to turnover ratio.

He's just not a good PG. He's a SG with the size and speed of a PG. I think he'd be a good fit if we didn't have Meeks, but I don't have faith in his ability to move the ball. If he was brought here for depth, I'm all for it. Barbosa for the minimum is a great pickup, but I just don't understand why people think he could replace Blake as the backup PG and do a better job of distributing. He'd be a better scorer, but not a better passer. We have shooters/scorers now on the bench in Meeks and Jamison so who passes the ball?


Nice find on the stats.

I think if Barbosa comes on board, Blake or Duhon will be moved for nothing before the season starts. Duhon can be traded some time in early October.

Barbosa would start off getting the backup PG minutes, if the offense is a mess, Blake gets inserted and then we have ridiculous depth in the backcourt. I'd sign him, just to see if it works out, it's a vet.min contract, so bringing him in wouldn't be a burden. If it does, we get a ridiculous steal (like Jamison), and if it doesn't, we can always fall back on Blake (hopefully).
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Re: Lakers Interested In Leandro Barbosa?

Postby therealdeal on Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:03 am

FabFourLakers wrote:For everyone who keeps saying "Lakers won't sign Barbosa unless they get rid of Blake"....even if we CAN'T get rid of him, we can still sign Barbosa. Barbosa will be had for the vet's min, and we can hand out as many vet's min contracts as we want.

I agree with this statement. It's not my money, so of course I can say let's just go get whoever we can for the vet's minimum. It is simply unlikely we continue spending unless we shed some contracts somewhere.
FabFourLakers wrote:If we get Barbosa, its a TREMENDOUS upgrade. People who THINK blake at PG is better than Barbosa...let me ask you this....WHY?

Because any way you look at it, it's true. A PG is someone who distributes the ball to others, that's not what Barbosa does effectively.
FabFourLakers wrote:Watch the games, not the stats. When Blake is in, our offense is crap, and its ALL outside shooting, no penetration or breaking down of the D....and our transition offense is also crap.

I do watch the games, that's why I know Barbosa isn't a PG. He's a SG and even when he played PG, he never was very good at distributing the ball effectively which is something our bench will need. He breaks down the defense so that he can score, not so that others can. That's fine, but we don't necessarily need that with Meeks and Jamison here.
FabFourLakers wrote:Blake has one thing over Barbosa, and that is better D. But he is only SLIGHTLY better....Barbosa at the 1, he does have the speed to stay with the quicker PG's, unlike Blake...and Barbosa has primarily played the 2 which means he has had to defend 2's for most of his career. Maybe playing the 1 will make Barbosa a more effective defender?
Barbosa is an awful defender. He doesn't like to play defense, he's undersized really for either guard position defensively; he's too small for SGs and he's too weak for most PGs. Blake may not be a great defender, but he's a tenacious defender. Against bench PGs he's okay. Against SGs, who he was asked to guard a lot last season, he's not good at all.
FabFourLakers wrote:All i'm saying is, Barbosa gives our bench a different dynamic. We'll have one of the more active benches in the league with Jordan Hill, Jamison, Ebanks, Meeks and Barbosa. I don't care what we do with Blake....if we sign Barbosa, he will be the back up PG to Nash. Blake and Duhon can sit their butts on the bench until we trade them next summer when both becoming expiring K's. Blake has been a huge disappointment and Barbosa would be a HUGE upgrade in our backcourt which would now be among the deepest in the league with Kobe/Nash/Meeks/Barbosa/Blake/Duhon.

I don't necessarily disagree as long as we go up tempo with our bench, but again Barbosa is simply not a distributor. I'd have a lot of questions regarding whether or not he can be a true PG or whether he'd just come here and suck up scoring opportunities for a bench that needs to share the ball. We already have offensive options all over the place from our starters to Meeks and Jamison. We need a PG off the bench who will look for those guys, not for himself. If he wants to come here to play behind Meeks, that's fine. But he should not come here to play instead of Blake. I think that could be a mistake unless he can transform into a passer here.
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Re: Lakers Interested In Leandro Barbosa?

Postby therealdeal on Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:07 am

Doc Brown wrote:Nice find on the stats.

I think if Barbosa comes on board, Blake or Duhon will be moved for nothing before the season starts. Duhon can be traded some time in early October.

Barbosa would start off getting the backup PG minutes, if the offense is a mess, Blake gets inserted and then we have ridiculous depth in the backcourt. I'd sign him, just to see if it works out, it's a vet.min contract, so bringing him in wouldn't be a burden. If it does, we get a ridiculous steal (like Jamison), and if it doesn't, we can always fall back on Blake (hopefully).

Thanks.

I'm with you. I think you bring Barbosa in if you can and see what he can add to the team. It's a veteran minimum contract so the risk is very low. A lot of people here are misunderstanding me, I wouldn't mind signing him. It's that I don't think he necessarily replaces Blake.

Unless we go uptempo with our bench (which might be a good idea), I don't see him being necessarily a good PG. I think we need a guy that will pass to Meeks and Jamison and let those guys work off the bench, and I don't know if Barbosa can do that without hogging the ball a little too much.

I think he'd be a great pickup though and the upside is there. We can move Blake or Duhon and then I'm for it. I've been down on Blake (although lately I've been put in the awkward position of defending him), so it's not like I'm against moving him. I've just resigned myself to the idea that he'll be our backup PG this season. If we can sign Barbosa for the min., let's do it. It's not my money.
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Re: Lakers Interested In Leandro Barbosa?

Postby LTLakerFan on Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:56 am

Haven't caught up on the recent posts yet but I was just thinking when Ray Allen is in the game the Brazilian Blur could sure make him work on defense just trying to keep up. Take the edge off his old legs and maybe be a great chess piece for the Lakers to have on the board.
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Re: Lakers Interested In Leandro Barbosa?

Postby dj vitus on Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:18 am

Even though Blake has more assists, I don't really see him as a "distributor" within the flow of the offense as much as he is someone who waits to find the ally oop with Bynum (now Howard), or dumps it down low for a quick Gasol hook shot. It's great when it happens, but I think Nash can more than make up for it.

What we severely lack (compared to OKC and Miami) are youth, speed, and athleticism, which LB provides. They don't call him the Brazilian Blur for nothing. He can still be an effective passer by driving and dishing to Meeks or Jamison, keeping the defenses honest when they thought they could relax with Nash on the bench. And even if he ball hogs, he still shoots at a very high clip, unlike some chuckers out there like Jamal Crawford or Nick Young.

And considering how old our starters are (and Jamison), we need all the bench depth we can get. Miami can get away with just two or three good bench players since Bron, Wade, and Bosh can all play 48 minutes a game and be ready the next day. Not us. With Nash missing a quarter and a half, and Kobe and Gasol missing over a quarter, we need to be at least 10 deep come playoff time. Meeks and Jamison are great, but Meeks is still unproven, and Jamison is already 36. Barbosa's playoff experience and speed will make up for those two bench weaknesses.

Please sign with us, Barbosa! :jam2:
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Re: Lakers Interested In Leandro Barbosa?

Postby 24K GOLD on Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:36 am

What do we need Barbosa for? He can't play point guard and small forward, while the shooting guard position is deep.
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Re: Lakers Interested In Leandro Barbosa?

Postby Doc Brown on Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:06 pm

Max Luckan ‏@MaxLuckan
Hearing that it’s down to the Lakers and Suns for Leandro Barbosa.
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Re: Lakers Interested In Leandro Barbosa?

Postby Weezy on Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:16 pm

I haven't read through this page entirely, just skimmed it, but I really see no downside to signing Barbosa as a back up PG. Last season we lacked scoring off the bench, Barbosa is a scorer. He's not a traditional PG, no, but why do we need that with our bench? Our backup C is not a scorer, neither is our backup SF, it's basically just Jamison and Meeks, adding Barbosa to that would give us a potent scoring bench if you ask me.
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Re: Lakers Interested In Leandro Barbosa?

Postby lakerfan2 on Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:22 pm

Doc Brown wrote:
Max Luckan ‏@MaxLuckan
Hearing that it’s down to the Lakers and Suns for Leandro Barbosa.
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Sign Barbosa, waive Duhon when we can. Simple as that.
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Re: Lakers Interested In Leandro Barbosa?

Postby Texas Lakers Fan on Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:41 pm

Praying. :jam2:
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Re: Lakers Interested In Leandro Barbosa?

Postby last stand on Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:50 pm

Weezy wrote:I haven't read through this page entirely, just skimmed it, but I really see no downside to signing Barbosa as a back up PG. Last season we lacked scoring off the bench, Barbosa is a scorer. He's not a traditional PG, no, but why do we need that with our bench? Our backup C is not a scorer, neither is our backup SF, it's basically just Jamison and Meeks, adding Barbosa to that would give us a potent scoring bench if you ask me.


I agree, but you have to get rid of Blake or duhon first. Probably Blake because I don't see anyone lining up to trade for duhon
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Re: Lakers Interested In Leandro Barbosa?

Postby karacha on Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:51 pm

Do it, Mitch.

:deal:

And just get rid of Duhon. With all due respect, we simply don't need him. At least Barbosa is quick, a decent scorer and a combo guard.

Do this, and we're ready for the new season. We had some serious problems with bench scoring in the past. But Meeks, Barbosa and Jamison? Yes, please.
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Re: Lakers Interested In Leandro Barbosa?

Postby Doc Brown on Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:53 pm

Weezy wrote:I haven't read through this page entirely, just skimmed it, but I really see no downside to signing Barbosa as a back up PG. Last season we lacked scoring off the bench, Barbosa is a scorer. He's not a traditional PG, no, but why do we need that with our bench? Our backup C is not a scorer, neither is our backup SF, it's basically just Jamison and Meeks, adding Barbosa to that would give us a potent scoring bench if you ask me.


If we could have a Phoenix Suns type bench from years ago that would be awesome.

They came in, ran up and down the floor, extended leads and could put points on the board. Getting Barbosa, I think we would have the personnel to do it.

Barbosa/Meeks/Ebanks/Hill can all run the floor. I want this to go down, just because it adds another dynamic to our bench and it would be fun to see the starters kick peoples teeth in and the bench comes in and runs circles around people.
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Re: Lakers Interested In Leandro Barbosa?

Postby karacha on Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:55 pm

Yup. Give Barbosa/Meeks/Jamison (in any combination) some time with Nash, Pau or Dwight, and we'll never lose big leads again.
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Re: Lakers Interested In Leandro Barbosa?

Postby lakerfan2 on Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:57 pm

last stand wrote:
Weezy wrote:I haven't read through this page entirely, just skimmed it, but I really see no downside to signing Barbosa as a back up PG. Last season we lacked scoring off the bench, Barbosa is a scorer. He's not a traditional PG, no, but why do we need that with our bench? Our backup C is not a scorer, neither is our backup SF, it's basically just Jamison and Meeks, adding Barbosa to that would give us a potent scoring bench if you ask me.


I agree, but you have to get rid of Blake or duhon first. Probably Blake because I don't see anyone lining up to trade for duhon


he's basically an expiring with his last year non-guaranteed. he's movable.
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Re: Lakers Interested In Leandro Barbosa?

Postby therealdeal on Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:59 pm

Weezy wrote:I haven't read through this page entirely, just skimmed it, but I really see no downside to signing Barbosa as a back up PG. Last season we lacked scoring off the bench, Barbosa is a scorer. He's not a traditional PG, no, but why do we need that with our bench? Our backup C is not a scorer, neither is our backup SF, it's basically just Jamison and Meeks, adding Barbosa to that would give us a potent scoring bench if you ask me.

With three guys who are supposed to be our scorers, who gets guys like Ebanks and Hill shots? Not to mention Meeks and Jamison are actually better being set up than creating for themselves.

Like I've said if we came out and just outran everyone, that's okay with me. But as a PG, Barbosa cannot set people up.
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Re: Lakers Interested In Leandro Barbosa?

Postby Weezy on Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:35 pm

I have little to no confidence that Blake can set people up as well. It's hard to set people up when you're not a scoring threat yourself, when you won't even shoot even when open, when you can't or won't go to the rim for layups to draw defenders toward you. So yeah, Barbosa isn't a set-up type PG, but Blake isn't exactly one either, at least Barbosa is quick and can score though.
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Re: Lakers Interested In Leandro Barbosa?

Postby karacha on Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:02 pm

At least Barbosa can slash&score, Jamison has always been able to create his own shot... and Meeks is the only one who would truly benefit from someone setting him up. Which is why I suggest mixing bench players with the starters to give us more options. Nash, Kobe and Pau can set them up, when necessary.
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Re: Lakers Interested In Leandro Barbosa?

Postby LTLakerFan on Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:32 pm

Doc Brown wrote:
Weezy wrote:I haven't read through this page entirely, just skimmed it, but I really see no downside to signing Barbosa as a back up PG. Last season we lacked scoring off the bench, Barbosa is a scorer. He's not a traditional PG, no, but why do we need that with our bench? Our backup C is not a scorer, neither is our backup SF, it's basically just Jamison and Meeks, adding Barbosa to that would give us a potent scoring bench if you ask me.


If we could have a Phoenix Suns type bench from years ago that would be awesome.

They came in, ran up and down the floor, extended leads and could put points on the board. Getting Barbosa, I think we would have the personnel to do it.

Barbosa/Meeks/Ebanks/Hill can all run the floor. I want this to go down, just because it adds another dynamic to our bench and it would be fun to see the starters kick peoples teeth in and the bench comes in and runs circles around people.


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Re: Lakers Interested In Leandro Barbosa?

Postby therealdeal on Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:43 pm

Weezy wrote:I have little to no confidence that Blake can set people up as well. It's hard to set people up when you're not a scoring threat yourself, when you won't even shoot even when open, when you can't or won't go to the rim for layups to draw defenders toward you. So yeah, Barbosa isn't a set-up type PG, but Blake isn't exactly one either, at least Barbosa is quick and can score though.

But the point isn't that Blake creates for others necessarily, it's that he's a willing passer. He's a willing passer to a fault actually; something that was often said about Lamar until about 2008 or 2009. Barbosa is not a skilled passer and doesn't look to pass the ball very often. He's a scorer.

That's great, but we're going to need someone off the bench who is willing to move the ball for everyone else because we've already got guys like that. If we went super up tempo and got Barbosa, Ebanks, and Jamison out on the break that's one thing. But with three guys that have shoot first mentalities and two guys who need someone to pass them the ball to score, we're going to see a lot of isolations and one on ones and I'd like to stay away from that.

I'm still for the signing though. Don't get me wrong.
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Re: Lakers Interested In Leandro Barbosa?

Postby LAKEROC on Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:56 pm

Steve Blake over Chris Duhon, any day of the week. Find a way to package Duhon and Sacre, for a 2nd round pick and cash(. Sign Leandro Barbosa to a 2 year Vet. minimum deal, with 2nd year at the teams option. He can play both guard spots, and has the chemistry of working with Steve Nash before(where he got his best numbers, and sixth man of the year award). Sign Kenyon Martin to a one year vet. minimum deal, to help solidify the front court.

Nash/Barbosa/Blake
Bryant/Meeks
Artest/Ebanks
Gasol/Jamison/Martin
Howard/Hill
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Re: Lakers Interested In Leandro Barbosa?

Postby Helljumper on Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:23 pm

I don't care if you want to call him a PG or a SG. I don't care if he can't facilitate. I don't care what his assist/TO ratio is. I'll take Barbosa over Blake in our rotation any day. Barbosa/Meeks > Blake / Meeks
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