Lakers Only Practice Defense 15-20 Minutes

Re: Lakers Only Practice Defense 15-20 Minutes

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:43 pm

Doc Brown wrote:For those that are doggin' MDA about practicing defense for "X" amount of minutes, do you know how long the coaches with the top defenses practice defense?

I don't know the answer either, I just think it would interesting to compare what a crappy defensive coach in MDA to a great defensive coach like Thibs spend on practicing defense.


I'm also curious. It's all relative, maybe 15-20 minutes is average :man10:
User avatar
JoelMyersScrotalSack

 
Posts: 6778
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:10 am

Re: Lakers Only Practice Defense 15-20 Minutes

Postby phoenixrisingla on Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:08 pm

^^ That's actually a really good point.

I have to believe that teams with dominant team defense like the Bulls with coach Thibodeau, and Doc with the Celts (well, the 2009-2011 celts, lol) practice more than 15 minutes.

Again, I dont have the data you're asking for (would like to see it too!), but great team defense doesnt happen by itself or by accident.
Image
User avatar
phoenixrisingla

 
Posts: 2276
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:49 am
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA!

Re: Lakers Only Practice Defense 15-20 Minutes

Postby Vasashi17 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:10 pm

Really a number is arbitrary. It could be 15 minutes, it could be the entire 3 hour practice. Whatever it is, it depends on how you teach it and what the players are getting from it.

Alot of folks are saying that it is effort oriented. Well, you got a guy like Clark coming in putting forth alot of energy and then you have a guy like Kobe who seems to take time off on that end. What's the difference, other than age? How about minutes played. One guy should obviously have all the energy in the world, while the other guy is forced into playing 40+ minutes a game and has to pick his spots on when not to go 100%....cause if he did, there's no way he makes it to April...but at this rate, maybe there isn't anything for us in April.

Another funny thing about effort is that if the players don't truly understand you or don't truly buy into what you are selling them, then you get cases like Mike Brown where, they just go through the motions and look completely uninspired. Brown gets axed and its like the players all had a weight lifted off their shoulders and certainly played like it.

What I'm seeing out there, are veterans tired as ish and who tend to fade as the game goes on...or who tend to conserve themselves for the 4th quarter, but in the mean time let the other team push them to double digit deficits. And then there are others, who are just playing just to play....but appear to be not playing for their coach, who is definitely in the hot seat. If it were you, would you buy into a system that has won nothing or would you buy into a system that has earned hardware (ie Phil, Thibs with the Celts, obviously Pop, etc.)

If effort is the problem...you can easily trace it back to the coach. Whether its through his rotations / his offensive mentality to push the tempo, both of which attribute to player fatigue or the respect (or lack there of) that he demands from his players in trying to teach them and sell them his philosophy, D'Antoni appears to be a key factor to how the players are playing.

Some of you are choosing to ignore that and I don't understand why.

BTW: Kobe said that Phil hardly ever ran defensive drills. But lets not forget Kobe took alot of practices off when Phil was here and also Rambis was ridiculously efficient as a defensive coach. He doesn't get enough credit. During Phil's second tenure, LA ranked in the top 6 in defensive efficiency, outside of that 1st season ('06-'07).
Image
User avatar
Vasashi17
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 12949
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2003 11:38 am
Location: Anywhere Purple & Gold

Re: Lakers Only Practice Defense 15-20 Minutes

Postby therealdeal on Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:15 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:If effort is the problem...you can easily trace it back to the coach. Whether its through his rotations / his offensive mentality to push the tempo, both of which attribute to player fatigue or the respect (or lack there of) that he demands from his players in trying to teach them and sell them his philosophy, D'Antoni appears to a key factor to how the players are playing.

Some of you are choosing to ignore that and I don't understand why.

I'm not ignoring anything.

If there's a problem with effort that can also be traced right back to a player. Why should we give Kobe Bryant a pass for not playing defense? Why should we give Pau a pass for not playing every play? That's not JUST the coach, that's the players. They have a professional responsibility to play hard for this team, I don't care who the coach is.

All I'm asking for is that the blame be given to all that deserve it. This isn't JUST D'Antoni's problem, it's the team's problem and the organization's problem.
Stu : "Yeah, that's an old fashioned whoopin'."
therealdeal
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 37002
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:03 pm

Re: Lakers Only Practice Defense 15-20 Minutes

Postby Vasashi17 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:31 pm

The players do get blame too...but mostly if they seem unprepared and not ready to go. You give Phil this Kobe in his final year here and I'm positive we don't get swept. Kobe's always ready to go. Dwight worked his butt off to start for us when the season opened up. Metta worked his butt off just the same to get to where he is physically. Pau played in the Olympics and did his thing to stay in shape and ready to go. Steve at 38 always took good care of his body and was in game shape to get the season going.

The players did what they had to do to come in and get going. If they miss jumpshots here and there, then I don't mind it cause they have done their part to be game ready. However, if the coach continues to encourage jumpshots for non-jumpshooters and runs them 40 minutes a night, then what can you expect from a veteran team? Of course, they're going to look like they have no effort if they're playing tired.

As a coach, the onus is on you to put your players in the best position possible and create a gameplan that best utilizes their strengths. D'Antoni recognizes that he has to play his vets limited minutes, but continues to do the opposite. He knows what our players are strong at, yet continues to shuffle around their roles and positions to best fit his offense. Its irresponsible and obviously not panning out.

D'Antoni is to blame but the FO is really the one that needs to be criticized for their bravado in thinking this team could run run run.

It is what it is...but what I'm seeing out there is that the players (some key cogs to the core) not believing in what the coaching is selling (especially our frontline players). Their lack of effort certainly encourages that thought process.
Image
User avatar
Vasashi17
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 12949
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2003 11:38 am
Location: Anywhere Purple & Gold

Re: Lakers Only Practice Defense 15-20 Minutes

Postby therealdeal on Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:43 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:The players do get blame too...but mostly if they seem unprepared and not ready to go. You give Phil this Kobe in his final year here and I'm positive we don't get swept. Kobe's always ready to go. Dwight worked his butt off to start for us when the season opened up. Metta worked his butt off just the same to get to where he is physically. Pau played in the Olympics and did his thing to stay in shape and ready to go. Steve at 38 always took good care of his body and was in game shape to get the season going.
And yet on the court we get Kobe not hustling on defense, frequently losing his man and then not rotating to the open one. The coach isn't on the floor, that's Kobe Bryant.

Why are we seeing, frequently, Pau Gasol outhustled or out worked? Is that the coach or is that Pau Gasol not playing to a level expected of him?

You can blame the coach if you want, but at some point the players are responsible for themselves. That last season under Phil Jackson when these guys weren't performing in the playoffs, was that coaching? Was that because of Phil? Or did we hold those guys responsible for what they did on the court? Did we blame Phil or did we blame Gasol's lack of effort?

Vasashi17 wrote:As a coach, the onus is on you to put your players in the best position possible and create a gameplan that best utilizes their strengths. D'Antoni recognizes that he has to play his vets limited minutes, but continues to do the opposite. He knows what our players are strong at, yet continues to shuffle around their roles and positions to best fit his offense. Its irresponsible and obviously not panning out.
I'm not advocating for D'Antoni and I'm not saying he's done an excellent job, but to put the entirety of the blame on him is ludicrous.
Stu : "Yeah, that's an old fashioned whoopin'."
therealdeal
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 37002
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:03 pm

Re: Lakers Only Practice Defense 15-20 Minutes

Postby Vasashi17 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:57 pm

Real, all the players get criticism...I'm not saying its okay to take time off on the defensive end. I'm not saying Pau is not to blame. I'm not saying its okay for Metta to think that every open 3 is okay to take. I'm not saying that its okay for Dwight to stay limited on offense and not take it upon himself to expand his post arsenal.

But notice that most of these player problems stem from how our coach wants his players to play.

We were losing with Brown too...but how much was the opposing team putting up on us? Teams are putting up about 110 on us now and that is due to tempo and how MDA wants to run the game. Kobe, Pau and Metta are all taking more 3s compared to when Phil was here. So who is giving them the green light to do that? This obviously leads to transition buckets for the other team...and we're blaming the defense, but then again, how did the defense get placed in this position?

So of course its not entirely the coach...but to think that he isn't a huge factor in this is ludicrous.
Image
User avatar
Vasashi17
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 12949
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2003 11:38 am
Location: Anywhere Purple & Gold

Re: Lakers Only Practice Defense 15-20 Minutes

Postby trodgers on Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:21 pm

Doc,

Earlier in the season he made a point to tell Simers that they worked on D for 30 minutes. So, if he has trimmed it by 50%, despite how atrocious they are, that is a bit of an indictment.
blog.travisjrodgers.com
Its like Dr. Buss is guarding the Celtic rim this second half. Nothings dropping
User avatar
trodgers
Site Manager
 
Posts: 45290
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 6:31 pm
Location: Orlando

Re: Lakers Only Practice Defense 15-20 Minutes

Postby therealdeal on Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:50 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:Real, all the players get criticism...I'm not saying its okay to take time off on the defensive end. I'm not saying Pau is not to blame. I'm not saying its okay for Metta to think that every open 3 is okay to take. I'm not saying that its okay for Dwight to stay limited on offense and not take it upon himself to expand his post arsenal.

But notice that most of these player problems stem from how our coach wants his players to play.

We were losing with Brown too...but how much was the opposing team putting up on us? Teams are putting up about 110 on us now and that is due to tempo and how MDA wants to run the game. Kobe, Pau and Metta are all taking more 3s compared to when Phil was here. So who is giving them the green light to do that? This obviously leads to transition buckets for the other team...and we're blaming the defense, but then again, how did the defense get placed in this position?

So of course its not entirely the coach...but to think that he isn't a huge factor in this is ludicrous.

I think EVERYTHING is a huge factor in this :man10:

From management to the players to the fans. EVERYTHING is playing a huge role in why we're struggling. Frankly, I don't see a reason to continue because you clearly would rather blame D'Antoni. That's your opinion, that's cool.

I think there's a fair share of pie that needs to go round that's all.
Stu : "Yeah, that's an old fashioned whoopin'."
therealdeal
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 37002
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:03 pm

Re: Lakers Only Practice Defense 15-20 Minutes

Postby GoldenKnight on Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:30 pm

Helljumper wrote:Compared to the 0 minutes Kobe said they practiced under Phil...


I seriously don't believe Kobe, he was just trying to hype up D'Antoni coming to L.A
Image

CHECK OUT MY DESIGNS ON FB/INSTAGRAM/TWITTER: @GoldenKnightGFX
User avatar
GoldenKnight

 
Posts: 2185
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:57 am

Re: Lakers Only Practice Defense 15-20 Minutes

Postby JGC on Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:38 pm

therealdeal wrote:
Vasashi17 wrote:Real, all the players get criticism...I'm not saying its okay to take time off on the defensive end. I'm not saying Pau is not to blame. I'm not saying its okay for Metta to think that every open 3 is okay to take. I'm not saying that its okay for Dwight to stay limited on offense and not take it upon himself to expand his post arsenal.

But notice that most of these player problems stem from how our coach wants his players to play.

We were losing with Brown too...but how much was the opposing team putting up on us? Teams are putting up about 110 on us now and that is due to tempo and how MDA wants to run the game. Kobe, Pau and Metta are all taking more 3s compared to when Phil was here. So who is giving them the green light to do that? This obviously leads to transition buckets for the other team...and we're blaming the defense, but then again, how did the defense get placed in this position?

So of course its not entirely the coach...but to think that he isn't a huge factor in this is ludicrous.

I think EVERYTHING is a huge factor in this :man10:

From management to the players to the fans. EVERYTHING is playing a huge role in why we're struggling. Frankly, I don't see a reason to continue because you clearly would rather blame D'Antoni. That's your opinion, that's cool.

I think there's a fair share of pie that needs to go round that's all.


I concur that the primary reason isn't MDA. It's something else. I don't know exactly what it is... but it's something else.

If it was mainly D'antoni, then we should at least be as good as the 2004-2006 Phoenix Suns defensively if not better. We are actually quite a bit WORSE than those Suns, believe it or not. That is... ludicrous but true.
JGC

 
Posts: 3781
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:07 am

Re: Lakers Only Practice Defense 15-20 Minutes

Postby wcsoldier81 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:12 am

This is a led veterans team ... if they really wanted to get out of this mess and start winning games , they would regroup , look at themselves in the mirror and "fix" what's wrong on the defensive end ( at least start playing decent D for their age) ... instead of this they keep playing the blame game on the floor , pointing fingers at each other ...

TheRealDeal had excellent points .

Kobe , as the leader of this team , is setting a terrible example for this team by not caring about D at all ... what would the average player on this team hustle his arse off while seeing the leader of this team going for suicide steals , not rotating , ball watching ect ?

Then you have the two "can't stop crying and whining " babies inside especially Pau who can't stop talking about post touches ( yet he won't post up Dre Miller when the opportunity is there :man10: ).

What about D and boxing out Pau ? Absolutely no effort . He's a total cancer for this team ... at this point I prefer limited skilled players like Hill and Clark to share the minutes at the PF position than watching one single second of " shrug of shoulders" Pau on the floor ....

I could go on and on about D12 or Tawn ... bottom line is I see a team full of players whose looking for every excuse available , talking a lot but doing absolutely nothing to get out of the pathetic situation they are in ...


PS : the "blame game" on D started in the Dallas series ... when Phil was our coach
wcsoldier81

 
Posts: 6050
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:20 am

Re: Lakers Only Practice Defense 15-20 Minutes

Postby hdtvset on Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:44 am

It is clearly to me the main problem with this year's Lakers team is the turnover. And you only have turnover on offense positions. Which means, the problem is still the offense. So is it really make sense that they need more time to practice on offense, not the defense? Those lazy and bad angle passes since the training camp were just crazy.

For the fact that they only spent 15-20 minutes practicing defense, the defense were pretty good for the past 3 games. When they lost to the Heats last night only giving up 99 points vs. around 110+ a week ago. Even the Heats have many easy baskets the whole game, the Lakers held them below 100 points below their average. That was pretty good from only 15-20 minutes practice.
Image
User avatar
hdtvset

 
Posts: 1617
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: LA

Re: Lakers Only Practice Defense 15-20 Minutes

Postby charvin on Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:00 am

Lakers gifted them way too many dunks. Heat should not have even broke 90 points...
charvin

 
Posts: 530
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:53 pm

Previous

Return to Lakers Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MSNbot Media, Yahoo [Bot] and 9 guests

cron
Advertise Here | Privacy Policy | ©2008 Sculu Sports. Come Strong.