Lakers' teammates prefer Kobe Bryant as a willing passer

Re: Lakers' teammates prefer Kobe Bryant as a willing passer

Postby Lakers808 on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:23 pm

i believe this is the cure to the lakers success this season. Kobe getting attention while he has the ball and passing it out to open players and if he feels the shot then he can take it. Its not rocket science, but its similar to kaepernick's success right now with the niners. I dont like kobe at this stage of his career just shooting with two defenders in his face or shooting incredibly difficult shots. Its obvious when there is a balance attack like yesterday, everyone will feel better about themselves which equals to better d. Anyone who's play basketball in their life knows if you score, it brings confidence not only to your offense but also you bring some swag to the defense.
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Re: Lakers' teammates prefer Kobe Bryant as a willing passer

Postby KB24 on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:31 pm

This isn't going to work every game because eventually teams will counter it by switching their defense. The Thunder didn't throw a box&1 defense at the Lakers for whatever reason. With Sefolosha hawking Bryant that would have been an effective defense. I think the reason was Bryant being able to get past Thabo baseline and they were afraid of being exposed in the paint by defending space rather than players but thats what happened anyway with Kobe finding bigs under the basket.

The Lakers need to find a way to beat teams no matter what the other team does. Depending on Kobe posting up on the wing and going baseline every move isn't going to work all year and especially not in the playoffs.
We need to keep the pace rather slow and look for half-court sets with posts ups.

In other words: exactly the opposite of D'Antoni's approach.
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Re: Lakers' teammates prefer Kobe Bryant as a willing passer

Postby SpencerHarrison on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:38 pm

They switch the defense, and Kobe, Nash, Gasol and Howard react. That was originally the hope for this team - they can beat you in a lot of different ways. Right now Kobe in the post is lethal. If somehow that is taken away, we can run through Gasol in the post or elbow, etc.

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Re: Lakers' teammates prefer Kobe Bryant as a willing passer

Postby karacha on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:44 pm

Maybe not "slow", but definitely slower. So that we can at least get back on D instead of watching turnovers resulting in a quick basket for the opposing team.
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Re: Lakers' teammates prefer Kobe Bryant as a willing passer

Postby therealdeal on Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:17 pm

I agree KB24 this isn't going to work forever, but it's not dependent on Kobe's baseline move. It's just dependent on Kobe in the post. Kobe took Thabo inside just as many times as he took him baseline.

If we're dependent on Kobe in the post, I like those odds. The dude is the best post player in the game.

The problem is soon teams will just start sending doubles and trapping him in that corner. That's what OKC should have done from the start and then used their crazy length to make him throw something up over the top of them.

The good news is, we have the talent to start adjusting to that too. This is just the base and it's a great base to start from.
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Re: Lakers' teammates prefer Kobe Bryant as a willing passer

Postby jlkr on Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:38 pm

Kidd doesn't start, by the way.

That said, Kidd isn't the shooter Nash is. Heck, Nash is by far the best distance shooter on the team. 42% on 3's this year. Guy can shoot. Lakers desperately need another player other than the ball-handler to stretch the floor with their catch and shoot game. It wasn't working with Kobe there, yes Kobe was scoring, but defenses weren't made to pay for packing the paint. So switch roles and tell Nash to be a more aggressive shooter. Now the floor is stretched more. So Kobe plays point and draws the defense, Nash finds his spots and moves the ball as necessary. Still works because both are excellent passers.
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Re: Lakers' teammates prefer Kobe Bryant as a willing passer

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:47 pm

Kobe still has enough power and speed to split a double team, so he's less prone to being trapped. I like the idea of Nash being the secondary passer, since he'll get to pass on the weak side, where there's less ball pressure. He's much more successful that way at his age.

The problem is that it takes both Kobe and Nash on the floor at once to run the offense well. That leaves Duhon and Morris for backup, and both of them are really likely to cough up the ball under pressure. Maybe Blake will be a little better, once he gets back in shape.
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Re: Lakers' teammates prefer Kobe Bryant as a willing passer

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:31 pm

Kobe is simply taking advantage of the immense attention he receives from defenses. That's all. He's not playing pg. He is simply making defenses pay by finding the open man, something he neglected to do for many stretches of the season. So now the team is more dangerous.
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Re: Lakers' teammates prefer Kobe Bryant as a willing passer

Postby LakerFanIam on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:40 pm

Maybe now the team will be cutting & looking for the ball... Something that has been sorely missing so far.
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Re: Lakers' teammates prefer Kobe Bryant as a willing passer

Postby TIME on Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:02 am

Lets Go Lakers wrote:Kobe is simply taking advantage of the immense attention he receives from defenses. That's all. He's not playing pg. He is simply making defenses pay by finding the open man, something he neglected to do for many stretches of the season. So now the team is more dangerous.

Actually, yes, Kobe has been playing PG the last 2 games. He has been the primary playmaker on purpose. That is the point role.
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Re: Lakers' teammates prefer Kobe Bryant as a willing passer

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:06 am

I like it. It reminds me of the Magic and Nixon backcourt.
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Re: Lakers' teammates prefer Kobe Bryant as a willing passer

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:12 am

TIME wrote:
Lets Go Lakers wrote:Kobe is simply taking advantage of the immense attention he receives from defenses. That's all. He's not playing pg. He is simply making defenses pay by finding the open man, something he neglected to do for many stretches of the season. So now the team is more dangerous.

Actually, yes, Kobe has been playing PG the last 2 games. He has been the primary playmaker on purpose. That is the point role.


I just saw Kobe finally taking advantage of the attention he was getting instead of forcing tough shots. Some of his assists came when he was posted, some of it off the drive. It's not like he was dribbling around and probing like a pg. He just exploited the attention he received and found open guys within the flow of the game. Call it whatever u want to call it.
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Re: Lakers' teammates prefer Kobe Bryant as a willing passer

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:17 am

This thread is full of "win" I enjoyed laughing a lot.

A couple of things:

1. Just because we are winning and Kobe is racking up assist doesn't change the fact that offense WAS NOT THE DAMN PROBLEM. Hint: Its on the other side of the court.

2. Kobe and Nash both suffered from the same problem on offense. No one moved without the ball. Nash put balls where players "should have been" but they never moved. Kobe would drive and get 3 people to come to him and everyone stayed in the same place. Most of the time Kobe could get a shot off but on those times he couldn't that jump pass was usually a turnover.

3. The Lakers other problem was "rebounding" as we gave up on average (or it appeared) double-digit offensive boards in every game. When only two people consistantly boxed out and fought for rebounds that bad. Especially when it wasn't the two 7-footers doing it. Hill and Clark (and Sacre when he got burn) were the only ones consistantly battling for the ball of the missed shot. Dwight really started 3 games ago (the Memphis game I think). Pau started 3 games ago as well. OKC didn't get all the second chance points we usually give up and they barely got out on the break like we usually let them get.

4. Missing 1-million freethrows a game cost us a bunch of games.

All this is to say, the Lakers aren't simply winning because Kobe passed the ball. They are winning because the team decided that the actually played for the Lakers and not the D-fenders.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Lakers' teammates prefer Kobe Bryant as a willing passer

Postby SpencerHarrison on Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:17 am

He's running the offense through the post. Is that what point guards do? I think this team has demanded unconventional roles for established players. Pau, Kobe and Nash all seem to be playing hybrid roles.

The whole "Kobe can't play PG HE'LL GET TIRED!!!" thing is dumb and so black and white. So is the "PAU IS A BENCH PLAYER? WTFFFF!"

The offense we can run through Kobe at the low post, with our personell, is incredibly efficient and allows Nash (our PG) to make plays without being trapped around half court and shut down.
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Re: Lakers' teammates prefer Kobe Bryant as a willing passer

Postby MC on Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:57 am

Puffy - you are wrong if you think our offense was noth affecting our ability to load up and defend.

The problem was floor balance from our offense when shots were going up.....

This has changed just as much as Bryant's play the last couple of games as they have adjusted to an inside out philosophy of play......

The result has been forcing pace and a half court game....... something that favors the Lakers and allows them an opportunity to get back and load up on the defensive end.

Irresponsible floor balance when shots go up on the offensive end affects your defense...... this imaginary line people try and create between both acting like one doesn't affect the other is just that..... imaginary
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Re: Lakers' teammates prefer Kobe Bryant as a willing passer

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:14 pm

MC wrote:Puffy - you are wrong if you think our offense was noth affecting our ability to load up and defend.

The problem was floor balance from our offense when shots were going up.....

This has changed just as much as Bryant's play the last couple of games as they have adjusted to an inside out philosophy of play......

The result has been forcing pace and a half court game....... something that favors the Lakers and allows them an opportunity to get back and load up on the defensive end.

Irresponsible floor balance when shots go up on the offensive end affects your defense...... this imaginary line people try and create between both acting like one doesn't affect the other is just that..... imaginary


Nothing wrong with what you said at all..... However, floor balancing requires players to move and rotate as needed. Take for instance that play where Kobe goes baseline on Sef.... When he spins and goes to the rack Clark rotates and finishes with the dunk (we all know how that play ends). What no one has talked about was Nash who was on the opposite corner moved up to the right wing as Earl vacated. Now Nash is in position for the kickout and the defensive transition. So yes, I agree with what you said but it is really as simple as movement. A shot goes up and guys aren't in position. Stu talks about it all the time that players are not dropping down to the level of the ball which accounts for many of our turnovers.

Now, the more specific thing was our halfcourt defense and our transition defense. How many times did we see our guys get beat down the floor by a guy near the rim? Our effort, like mitch stated, has been the issue. In the end, our offensive woes did lead to defensive issues but our defensive woes was the main reason we have been losing.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Lakers' teammates prefer Kobe Bryant as a willing passer

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:28 pm

What's going to be interesting is when we don't shoot 55% percent from the floor and shots are not being made at the same regularity. It's our defense that has to be consistent to keep us in every game that we play. I look at a team like Chicago; they're missing their star player but yet have found ways to win games despite missing Rose's offensive production. Why? Their defense is good from game to game.

I like our offense so far and we should continue to play inside-out whether shots are falling or not. I don't want to revert back to Kobe bailing us out and others standing watching Kobe "do his thing," as Earl clark pointed out after the Memphis game. We have to many options on this team for that to happen.
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Re: Lakers' teammates prefer Kobe Bryant as a willing passer

Postby Snakell Beast on Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:30 pm

puffyusaf#2 wrote:All this is to say, the Lakers aren't simply winning because Kobe passed the ball. They are winning because the team decided that the actually played for the Lakers and not the D-fenders.


A couple of semi-fair arguments, but you missed the main point. No one is saying the Lakers defense hasn't been the main problem, or that our rebounding effort and hustle hasn't been there, but a lot of that goes back to incentive. Tradtitionally, and currently, players are more engaged, and have more incentive to play harder, when they feel they are rewarded for their effort with a consistent portion of the offense.

Aside from the fact that a more efficient offense limits the opponents fast breaks off of misses and turnovers, gives the defense more time to get set and saves energy for the defensive end of the floor...the main reason Kobe as a facilitator works so well on this team is that is motivates players to play harder ON BOTH ENDS, and as they score more their confidence goes up and they do everything better.

Kobe needs to adopt a PASS FIRST attitude, and read defenses to set others up. Being a willing passer is good. Being an EAGER passer is MUCH BETTER. Kobe has conclusively proven this season that when he plays pass first, the team is excellent. When he plays score first, we are dreadful.

Passing the ball at the start of a possession in order to set up getting the ball back closer to the basket later on, or passing out of a double trap or out of desperation at the end of a failed drive while in the air (which constitutes 80% of Kobe's passes for most of his career) does technically count as passing the ball, but it is vastly different and FAR less effective than probing the defense to set up open teammates.

Kobe needs to design all of his energy on the offensive end around getting TEAMMATES open shots. Only THEN will you see more movement by his teammates. This is due, largely but not exclusively, to the fact that Kobe has been such a large part of every offensive set that his teammates haven't felt they would be rewarded for expending a lot of energy rotating to get open, and partly because they didn't want to work hard to get open and then have to run back quickly on defense after Kobe got in the air and turned the ball over trying to bail out his bad possession by desperately chucking it to a teammate.

Kobe as a score first player with a high volume of shots and a large portion of the offense is the unsustainable and ineffective strategy. Kobe as a pass first facilitator who only takes wide open shots is VASTLY more sustainable and effective. Anyone that claims otherwise is either a Kobe Jocker (at the expense of the Lakers success) or just doesn't know basketball.
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Re: Lakers' teammates prefer Kobe Bryant as a willing passer

Postby Snakell Beast on Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:36 pm

puffyusaf#2 wrote:Nothing wrong with what you said at all..... However, floor balancing requires players to move and rotate as needed.

Our effort, like mitch stated, has been the issue. In the end, our offensive woes did lead to defensive issues but our defensive woes was the main reason we have been losing.


Players are moving more because they believe that Kobe will pass to them at the right time, as opposed to as a last resort when the dribble drive goes wrong. Effort, again, goes way up when players are involved in the offense and when they are confident. Two things that skyrocket ON THIS TEAM when Kobe is looking to set others up.

dwighthowardsdad wrote:What's going to be interesting is when we don't shoot 55% percent from the floor and shots are not being made at the same regularity.


As far as us shooting 55%, that should be pretty commonplace for us given our talent. The fact that we have struggled so much is a testament to just how divided this entire team has been all season. Provided that everyone is willing to sacrifice and buy in to the team, and it starts with the best player leading by example (Kobe sacrificing scoring and shooting for the greater good) to get all the other pieces of the puzzle to fall in line, our offense...and as a result our defensive energy and intensity, should be MUCH better going forward.

EDIT - I do agree though, it will be interesting to see if Kobe will revert back to chucking and forcing penetration if his teammates stop making their open shots. I sincerely hope not. Our season depends on Kobe sticking with the right formula. There are natural ebbs and flows to every game. We cannot abandon such an effective style of play out of desperation or frustration. KEEP THE FAITH, Kobe. The Lakers future DEPENDS on it.
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Re: Lakers' teammates prefer Kobe Bryant as a willing passer

Postby Chillbongo on Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:16 pm

Good thread with good insight.

I want to add that I think this WILL be effective going forward. We're anchoring with Kobe in the post. Teams will double and trap, but we do have the personell to adjust. Kobe is too dynamic a player to let a double team or trap on the block throw the whole offense out of sync.

If the players decide the game plan (and not MDA), we will adjust for some possessions, maybe run Steve PnR's, and then mix back in Kobe post-ups.

This is good. Good start. We are only starting to discover how to play with each other. And sorry, but better offense leads to better defense. Movement, pace, touches, spacing, WHATEVER....it affects the defensive end for a multitude of reasons. Best believe dat
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Re: Lakers' teammates prefer Kobe Bryant as a willing passer

Postby Cleansed on Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:28 pm

Snakell Beast wrote:
puffyusaf#2 wrote:All this is to say, the Lakers aren't simply winning because Kobe passed the ball. They are winning because the team decided that the actually played for the Lakers and not the D-fenders.


A couple of semi-fair arguments, but you missed the main point. No one is saying the Lakers defense hasn't been the main problem, or that our rebounding effort and hustle hasn't been there, but a lot of that goes back to incentive. Tradtitionally, and currently, players are more engaged, and have more incentive to play harder, when they feel they are rewarded for their effort with a consistent portion of the offense.

Aside from the fact that a more efficient offense limits the opponents fast breaks off of misses and turnovers, gives the defense more time to get set and saves energy for the defensive end of the floor...the main reason Kobe as a facilitator works so well on this team is that is motivates players to play harder ON BOTH ENDS, and as they score more their confidence goes up and they do everything better.

Kobe needs to adopt a PASS FIRST attitude, and read defenses to set others up. Being a willing passer is good. Being an EAGER passer is MUCH BETTER. Kobe has conclusively proven this season that when he plays pass first, the team is excellent. When he plays score first, we are dreadful.

Passing the ball at the start of a possession in order to set up getting the ball back closer to the basket later on, or passing out of a double trap or out of desperation at the end of a failed drive while in the air (which constitutes 80% of Kobe's passes for most of his career) does technically count as passing the ball, but it is vastly different and FAR less effective than probing the defense to set up open teammates.

Kobe needs to design all of his energy on the offensive end around getting TEAMMATES open shots. Only THEN will you see more movement by his teammates. This is due, largely but not exclusively, to the fact that Kobe has been such a large part of every offensive set that his teammates haven't felt they would be rewarded for expending a lot of energy rotating to get open, and partly because they didn't want to work hard to get open and then have to run back quickly on defense after Kobe got in the air and turned the ball over trying to bail out his bad possession by desperately chucking it to a teammate.

Kobe as a score first player with a high volume of shots and a large portion of the offense is the unsustainable and ineffective strategy. Kobe as a pass first facilitator who only takes wide open shots is VASTLY more sustainable and effective. Anyone that claims otherwise is either a Kobe Jocker (at the expense of the Lakers success) or just doesn't know basketball.


What i find interesting (and conflicting personally) about your post is that superficially i agree with it. Players who aren't wholly focused upon their job may indeed need to be force fed in order to become engaged. I dont like it but if it produces wins you cant argue with it during this season (it's something that can be fixed during the off season or via trades during the season i suppose). When one delves deeper though it's entirely troublesome as , at the core, what is being said is we need to restrict our best weapons strength for the sake of the team which in my opinion suggest mental weakness on the part of other players. We need to make Kobe the scorer less of a scorer and more of a facilitator.....

despite having Steve "2x MVP" Nash on the roster.

All of the cutting and moving that players should do when Kobe makes a move that leads to their scoring and his assist they should also be doing when Nash handles the rock. Nash should be orchestrating this offense. Success with Kobe running the virtual PG position should be duplicated with Nash running the point as a true PG.

2 games is too small of a sample size but i am really looking forward to seeing more of Steves play over the next 10 games. Simply put - Entirely too much is being asked of Kobe with a team of this caliber in my opinion. Sure he will accept the challenge but he shouldn't have to.
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Re: Lakers' teammates prefer Kobe Bryant as a willing passer

Postby lAKERfaNaticKID on Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:32 pm

Snakell Beast wrote:
puffyusaf#2 wrote:All this is to say, the Lakers aren't simply winning because Kobe passed the ball. They are winning because the team decided that the actually played for the Lakers and not the D-fenders.


A couple of semi-fair arguments, but you missed the main point. No one is saying the Lakers defense hasn't been the main problem, or that our rebounding effort and hustle hasn't been there, but a lot of that goes back to incentive. Tradtitionally, and currently, players are more engaged, and have more incentive to play harder, when they feel they are rewarded for their effort with a consistent portion of the offense.

Aside from the fact that a more efficient offense limits the opponents fast breaks off of misses and turnovers, gives the defense more time to get set and saves energy for the defensive end of the floor...the main reason Kobe as a facilitator works so well on this team is that is motivates players to play harder ON BOTH ENDS, and as they score more their confidence goes up and they do everything better.

Kobe needs to adopt a PASS FIRST attitude, and read defenses to set others up. Being a willing passer is good. Being an EAGER passer is MUCH BETTER. Kobe has conclusively proven this season that when he plays pass first, the team is excellent. When he plays score first, we are dreadful.

Passing the ball at the start of a possession in order to set up getting the ball back closer to the basket later on, or passing out of a double trap or out of desperation at the end of a failed drive while in the air (which constitutes 80% of Kobe's passes for most of his career) does technically count as passing the ball, but it is vastly different and FAR less effective than probing the defense to set up open teammates.

Kobe needs to design all of his energy on the offensive end around getting TEAMMATES open shots. Only THEN will you see more movement by his teammates. This is due, largely but not exclusively, to the fact that Kobe has been such a large part of every offensive set that his teammates haven't felt they would be rewarded for expending a lot of energy rotating to get open, and partly because they didn't want to work hard to get open and then have to run back quickly on defense after Kobe got in the air and turned the ball over trying to bail out his bad possession by desperately chucking it to a teammate.

Kobe as a score first player with a high volume of shots and a large portion of the offense is the unsustainable and ineffective strategy. Kobe as a pass first facilitator who only takes wide open shots is VASTLY more sustainable and effective. Anyone that claims otherwise is either a Kobe Jocker (at the expense of the Lakers success) or just doesn't know basketball.


Agree with this to the 100th! Couldn't agree more
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Re: Lakers' teammates prefer Kobe Bryant as a willing passer

Postby jlkr on Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:40 pm

Cleansed wrote:
Snakell Beast wrote:
puffyusaf#2 wrote:All this is to say, the Lakers aren't simply winning because Kobe passed the ball. They are winning because the team decided that the actually played for the Lakers and not the D-fenders.


A couple of semi-fair arguments, but you missed the main point. No one is saying the Lakers defense hasn't been the main problem, or that our rebounding effort and hustle hasn't been there, but a lot of that goes back to incentive. Tradtitionally, and currently, players are more engaged, and have more incentive to play harder, when they feel they are rewarded for their effort with a consistent portion of the offense.

Aside from the fact that a more efficient offense limits the opponents fast breaks off of misses and turnovers, gives the defense more time to get set and saves energy for the defensive end of the floor...the main reason Kobe as a facilitator works so well on this team is that is motivates players to play harder ON BOTH ENDS, and as they score more their confidence goes up and they do everything better.

Kobe needs to adopt a PASS FIRST attitude, and read defenses to set others up. Being a willing passer is good. Being an EAGER passer is MUCH BETTER. Kobe has conclusively proven this season that when he plays pass first, the team is excellent. When he plays score first, we are dreadful.

Passing the ball at the start of a possession in order to set up getting the ball back closer to the basket later on, or passing out of a double trap or out of desperation at the end of a failed drive while in the air (which constitutes 80% of Kobe's passes for most of his career) does technically count as passing the ball, but it is vastly different and FAR less effective than probing the defense to set up open teammates.

Kobe needs to design all of his energy on the offensive end around getting TEAMMATES open shots. Only THEN will you see more movement by his teammates. This is due, largely but not exclusively, to the fact that Kobe has been such a large part of every offensive set that his teammates haven't felt they would be rewarded for expending a lot of energy rotating to get open, and partly because they didn't want to work hard to get open and then have to run back quickly on defense after Kobe got in the air and turned the ball over trying to bail out his bad possession by desperately chucking it to a teammate.

Kobe as a score first player with a high volume of shots and a large portion of the offense is the unsustainable and ineffective strategy. Kobe as a pass first facilitator who only takes wide open shots is VASTLY more sustainable and effective. Anyone that claims otherwise is either a Kobe Jocker (at the expense of the Lakers success) or just doesn't know basketball.


What i find interesting (and conflicting personally) about your post is that superficially i agree with it. Players who aren't wholly focused upon their job may indeed need to be force fed in order to become engaged. I dont like it but if it produces wins you cant argue with it during this season (it's something that can be fixed during the off season or via trades during the season i suppose). When one delves deeper though it's entirely troublesome as , at the core, what is being said is we need to restrict our best weapons strength for the sake of the team which in my opinion suggest mental weakness on the part of other players. We need to make Kobe the scorer less of a scorer and more of a facilitator.....

despite having Steve "2x MVP" Nash on the roster.

All of the cutting and moving that players should do when Kobe makes a move that leads to their scoring and his assist they should also be doing when Nash handles the rock. Nash should be orchestrating this offense. Success with Kobe running the virtual PG position should be duplicated with Nash running the point as a true PG.

2 games is too small of a sample size but i am really looking forward to seeing more of Steves play over the next 10 games. Simply put - Entirely too much is being asked of Kobe with a team of this caliber in my opinion. Sure he will accept the challenge but he shouldn't have to.

Kobe as PG and Nash at SG actually works better overall because no one on the Lakers shoots like Nash. Kobe calls Nash a "no-leave guy", meaning opposing defenses can't afford to leave Nash alone on the arc. Hate to say it but Nash is far better from the arc than Kobe so giving Kobe the ball gives Nash free reign to find his spots and in so doing, stretches the floor the way Kobe could not on his own. And in that floor stretching, Kobe is finding space to work AND the big guys are finding space near the basket. How often did Kobe find bigs near the basket in the 4th against the Thunder? With Nash on the arc, the Thunder couldn't pack the paint like they used to. And Kobe made them pay. and pay again.

Sure the Thunder could have gone to the box and 1 with Sef chasing Kobe, but again, Kobe is a superb passer out of the double team and Nash stretches the floor along with MWP, that's going to break the box zone.

Of course we won't see this all the time ... Blake is returning to the lineup. He's better than Morris or Duhon so we'll have to see what that looks like. Hopefully he has his 3 stroke going too so Kobe can play PG with him too.
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Re: Lakers' teammates prefer Kobe Bryant as a willing passer

Postby Chillbongo on Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:47 pm

Cleansed wrote:Nash should be orchestrating this offense. Success with Kobe running the virtual PG position should be duplicated with Nash running the point as a true PG.

While I agree with the overall "idea" of your post, this is where it gets problematic -- Nash is 39, and for whatever reason, defenses are anchoring in on trapping and double teaming him. And basically making that part of our offense useless.

Yes, the movement, cutting, screen-setting off the ball was almost non-existent when Nash was orchestrating. But even when we moved the ball it was to Pau out on the 3 or Metta who is TERRIBLE at anything other than 1-1.

The main difference is we're going inside out now with Kobe anchoring in the post. It would be amazing if Dwight was half the post player Kobe is. That's why Pau has an advantage with us and why we're running the O through him with the bench. Gotta go inside-out.
Last edited by Chillbongo on Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lakers' teammates prefer Kobe Bryant as a willing passer

Postby MC on Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:50 pm

puffyusaf#2 wrote:
MC wrote:Puffy - you are wrong if you think our offense was noth affecting our ability to load up and defend.

The problem was floor balance from our offense when shots were going up.....

This has changed just as much as Bryant's play the last couple of games as they have adjusted to an inside out philosophy of play......

The result has been forcing pace and a half court game....... something that favors the Lakers and allows them an opportunity to get back and load up on the defensive end.

Irresponsible floor balance when shots go up on the offensive end affects your defense...... this imaginary line people try and create between both acting like one doesn't affect the other is just that..... imaginary


Nothing wrong with what you said at all..... However, floor balancing requires players to move and rotate as needed. Take for instance that play where Kobe goes baseline on Sef.... When he spins and goes to the rack Clark rotates and finishes with the dunk (we all know how that play ends). What no one has talked about was Nash who was on the opposite corner moved up to the right wing as Earl vacated. Now Nash is in position for the kickout and the defensive transition. So yes, I agree with what you said but it is really as simple as movement. A shot goes up and guys aren't in position. Stu talks about it all the time that players are not dropping down to the level of the ball which accounts for many of our turnovers.

Now, the more specific thing was our halfcourt defense and our transition defense. How many times did we see our guys get beat down the floor by a guy near the rim? Our effort, like mitch stated, has been the issue. In the end, our offensive woes did lead to defensive issues but our defensive woes was the main reason we have been losing.


I agree with that Puff...........

Some of it is design itself too however within the offense that has lead to better transition defense.

example..... MDA and his system loves to place spot up shooters in both corners which fundamentally puts you in an awkward position to defend vs transition opportunities... The last 2 games I saw a significant difference in the lowering of plays with this aggressive floor spacing on the offensive end...... instead there was 1 corner spot up shooter strong side but almost always 2 to 3 guys placed above the free throw line (if you draw an imaginary line across the court) when the shots were going up off the player movement. The spacer on the weak side was closer to the wing than the corner....That was a huge difference compared to the previous games and what MDA tries to do normally. Combine that with some cutters and some screen actions weak side and you actually have a responsible offense going on out there....

That really has nothing to do with Bryant passing or not passing the ball........ that is a philosophy difference and MDA eating some crow IMO.
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