Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby TIME on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:00 pm

John3:16 wrote:
Lakerjones wrote: Chaz the bartender knows as much about scouting as Ronnie Lester? I highly doubt it.


:bow: We all have opinions on how the Lakers should be ran. Some make sense, others don't. However, I don't want anyone from a bar or even someone from CL running the Lakers. I want an expert. Someone who has a keen eye for seeing what others don't. I read once that Phil Jax and Jerry West were watching a game and they both picked up on things no one else did. That's who I want. Just because someone has the title, the paycheck, and makes a mean margarita doesn't mean they're the professional.


Exactly. We all know the now legendary story of how several teams saw Kobe work out but Logo watched him for just a few minutes and then proceeded to do whatever it took to get him. Same with the story of Lester calling JB's attention to Bynum in the lead up to the draft. There are reasons why the Spurs consistently grab 2nd round steals. They have one of the very best scouting teams in the league.
I'm lost in the fog of denial!
User avatar
TIME
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 9415
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:06 am

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby gcclaker on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:02 pm

John3:16 wrote:
Lakerjones wrote: Chaz the bartender knows as much about scouting as Ronnie Lester? I highly doubt it.

:bow: We all have opinions on how the Lakers should be ran. Some make sense, others don't. However, I don't want anyone from a bar or even someone from CL running the Lakers. I want an expert. Someone who has a keen eye for seeing what others don't. I read once that Phil Jax and Jerry West were watching a game and they both picked up on things no one else did. That's who I want. Just because someone has the title, the paycheck, and makes a mean margarita doesn't mean they're the professional.

Yes, a former player would know nuances and subtleties about a prospect's game or more importantly gauge their attitude for success being able to see through the cliches and jockspeak. I'm in line with West's comments of how scouts are undervalued. The Jimmy and Chaz Show will now have to go up against men with that innate knowledge.
No siggie...
User avatar
gcclaker
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 9:35 am
Location: Laker Cyber Space

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby Doberman on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:05 pm

Jim Buss responded with his now famous quote. "Evaluating basketball talent is not too difficult," he told Sports Illustrated many years ago. "If you grabbed 10 fans out of a bar and asked them to rate prospects, their opinions would be pretty much identical to those of the pro scouts."


This man agrees:

Image
Doberman

 
Posts: 1933
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 9:55 pm

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby last stand on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:05 pm

TIME wrote:
last stand wrote:Oh look lazenby again


At least he presented some facts to consider. Your post not so much.


Better than his previous articles entirely comprised of hearsay
everyone has their top 10 lists of women heres mine

1. emma watson
2. Natalie Portman
3. Mila Kunis
4. Emma Stone
5. Megan Fox
6. jessica biel
7. Teresa Palmer
8. Katy Perry
9. jessica alba
10. Olivia Wilde
last stand

 
Posts: 7496
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:43 pm

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby TIME on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:06 pm

last stand wrote:
TIME wrote:
last stand wrote:Oh look lazenby again


At least he presented some facts to consider. Your post not so much.


Better than his previous articles entirely comprised of hearsay


Fair enough. Then why the lame drive by post if this article was better?
I'm lost in the fog of denial!
User avatar
TIME
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 9415
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:06 am

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby Alleyhoops on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:07 pm

I suppose that's also how the Spurs put together their efficient scouting staff that keeps producing great low round talent out of the draft -- they go down to Galvestion and yank some cowpoke out of a bar and have him evaluate basketball players.

I can't even muster up a comment about this. This is going to be a different era of Laker basketball.
Image
User avatar
Alleyhoops

 
Posts: 4292
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 6:08 pm
Location: Culver City California

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby TIME on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:09 pm

Doberman wrote:
Jim Buss responded with his now famous quote. "Evaluating basketball talent is not too difficult," he told Sports Illustrated many years ago. "If you grabbed 10 fans out of a bar and asked them to rate prospects, their opinions would be pretty much identical to those of the pro scouts."


This man agrees:

Image


So, are you doing your typical Jim Buss can do no wrong defense, or are you seriously defending that quote as a reasonable and accurate truism regarding NBA scouting based on a single obviously exceptional case in Lin?
I'm lost in the fog of denial!
User avatar
TIME
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 9415
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:06 am

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:11 pm

I'll add two things.... first lets see what happens..... and two.... what "talent" have we evaluated at an even average level in the last decade?..... so far the results aren't materially different.

The only "find" we've had is Bynum..... and by all accounts he was found by our new "lead scout"....

A bunch of guys on an internet forum judging a guy for hiring a a friend and keeping the money in the family seems somehow amusing to me......
"If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

“The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present - and is gravely to be regarded." Dwight Eisenhower

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it" Thomas Sowell
User avatar
Rooscooter

 
Posts: 22554
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:25 pm
Location: Chandler AZ and Andalué

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby TIME on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:14 pm

Rooscooter wrote:I'll add two things.... first lets see what happens..... and two.... what "talent" have we evaluated at an even average level in the last decade?..... so far the results aren't materially different.

The only "find" we've had is Bynum..... and by all accounts he was found by our new "lead scout"....

A bunch of guys on an internet forum judging a guy for hiring a a friend and keeping the money in the family seems somehow amusing to me......


Strange post from you. I seriously doubt you would run your business this way.

And Bynum was not found by any scout currently working for the Lakers. He was Lester's find.
I'm lost in the fog of denial!
User avatar
TIME
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 9415
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:06 am

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby khmrP on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:15 pm

Jim sorta right....I mean any shmuck can be a scout he never said anything bout being a GOOD scout :man10: look at the Warriors lottery almost every year and best they could do is Curry and Ellis in the 2nd. While Spurs get franchise type talent with late 1st and 2nd on a consistent basis.
User avatar
khmrP

 
Posts: 10409
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 10:45 pm

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby last stand on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:15 pm

TIME wrote:
Fair enough. Then why the lame drive by post if this article was better?


Because his articles are consistently agenda driven having been a Phil Jackson mouthpiece that it is difficult for me to even consider any article he writes on the matter to have an ounce of impartiality and therefore a lack of credibility

Not as bad as Rosen but still everything he writes borders propaganda
everyone has their top 10 lists of women heres mine

1. emma watson
2. Natalie Portman
3. Mila Kunis
4. Emma Stone
5. Megan Fox
6. jessica biel
7. Teresa Palmer
8. Katy Perry
9. jessica alba
10. Olivia Wilde
last stand

 
Posts: 7496
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:43 pm

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby khmrP on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:16 pm

TIME wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:I'll add two things.... first lets see what happens..... and two.... what "talent" have we evaluated at an even average level in the last decade?..... so far the results aren't materially different.

The only "find" we've had is Bynum..... and by all accounts he was found by our new "lead scout"....

A bunch of guys on an internet forum judging a guy for hiring a a friend and keeping the money in the family seems somehow amusing to me......


Strange post from you. I seriously doubt you would run your business this way.

And Bynum was not found by any scout currently working for the Lakers. He was Lester's find.


like I said amazes me how Jim still keeps getting credit for Bynum but I suppose since he's the guy who gets to say yes/no he would get all the credit than
User avatar
khmrP

 
Posts: 10409
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 10:45 pm

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby bystander on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:17 pm

The Los Angeles effin Lakers can have no amateurs. Come on.
pearl jam - little wing/maggot brain

best 9:30 minutes of music of all time
User avatar
bystander

 
Posts: 6381
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:23 pm
Location: Salamanca, Spain.

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby TIME on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:18 pm

last stand wrote:
TIME wrote:
Fair enough. Then why the lame drive by post if this article was better?


Because his articles are consistently agenda driven having been a Phil Jackson mouthpiece that it is difficult for me to even consider any article he writes on the matter to have an ounce of impartiality and therefore a lack of credibility

Not as bad as Rosen but still everything he writes borders propaganda


I agree that Laz is a Phil guy, and a Jeannie guy and most of all a Tex Winter guy, and that he has a personal agenda against Jim Buss. However that does not auto-disqualify the issues raised in this article.
I'm lost in the fog of denial!
User avatar
TIME
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 9415
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:06 am

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby Center Court on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:29 pm

as much as I hate Jim as the captain of the franchise.... you've got to consider that he was the same guy who tried err HAD CP3 as a Laker.

So we can act all we want like the sky is falling, but let's not forget he was in charge of making that move as well.
User avatar
Center Court

 
Posts: 3137
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:45 pm
Location: @ CL since '04

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:37 pm

TIME wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:I'll add two things.... first lets see what happens..... and two.... what "talent" have we evaluated at an even average level in the last decade?..... so far the results aren't materially different.

The only "find" we've had is Bynum..... and by all accounts he was found by our new "lead scout"....

A bunch of guys on an internet forum judging a guy for hiring a a friend and keeping the money in the family seems somehow amusing to me......


Strange post from you. I seriously doubt you would run your business this way.

And Bynum was not found by any scout currently working for the Lakers. He was Lester's find.


Well, I don't have a real good idea of how the Lakers scouting was structured were run B.J. (before Jimmy) so I have nothing to compare it to.... I also am aware of the results of the last decade or so. I wouldn't say that Jerry Buss got a real good return on our previous approach to scouting so, while it could get worse.... it could also get better. I think, at the end of the day, Mitch is a very large voice in evaluating talent and always seems to get overlooked in these "Jimmy is the anti-Christ" discussions.

Jerry Buss has run the Lakers in a similar manner...... and if you can remember back to when he bought the team there were similar articles about his inner circle and all of the other things Jerry was doing at the time.

The Bynum "find" may have been Lester as far the Lakers were concerned, but he was no means the only one that knew about Bynum and I thought that Jimmy forced the pick of Andrew over someone that the scouting staff and Mitch wanted..... Sean May I believe. I could be wrong but I thought that was how that worked out. Whether that's an example of the fable of the "Blind Squirrel" or that he has a "knack" for it remains to be seen I guess.

Our results haven't been real good in the last decade, however the Lakers don't really rely on the draft that much. I've always thought we've missed opportunities that others have taken advantage of (San Antonio for example) but for some reason Jerry never saw the need..... I personally disagree with that but it isn't just a recent development.....

As for my business..... I don't mix business and family.... never will. Something I learned early on. The Buss family was raised as a family to run the business from all accounts that I've read..... to each his own.
"If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

“The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present - and is gravely to be regarded." Dwight Eisenhower

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it" Thomas Sowell
User avatar
Rooscooter

 
Posts: 22554
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:25 pm
Location: Chandler AZ and Andalué

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby kray28 on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:40 pm

XXIV wrote:This is just depressing to read as a Lakers fan.


Understatement of the year.

It’s not Money Ball. It’s more like Homey Ball.


As in Homey the Clown.

Jimmy looks a butch overweight version of Jeannie btw. That's one homely lookin' cat. The baseball cap does not help the look.
Image
User avatar
kray28

 
Posts: 21238
Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 8:16 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby TIME on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:56 pm

Center Court wrote:as much as I hate Jim as the captain of the franchise.... you've got to consider that he was the same guy who tried err HAD CP3 as a Laker.

So we can act all we want like the sky is falling, but let's not forget he was in charge of making that move as well.


I do think Jim Buss deserves credit for the CP3 move and for his decision to hold onto Bynum as well.
I'm lost in the fog of denial!
User avatar
TIME
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 9415
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:06 am

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby trodgers on Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:12 pm

gcclaker wrote:We'll see how this pans out... Uneasy about it to be honest. It's like having Bill Murray and Harold Ramis type characters run the organization.

I would prefer to have Bill Murray running the organization.
blog.travisjrodgers.com
Its like Dr. Buss is guarding the Celtic rim this second half. Nothings dropping
User avatar
trodgers
Site Manager
 
Posts: 46252
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 6:31 pm
Location: Orlando

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby Forklift on Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:20 pm

this is why you need professional scouts.... so you don't pick Kwame over Gasol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_NBA_Draft
User avatar
Forklift

 
Posts: 1748
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:48 am

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby Turbo on Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:00 pm

The depiction of Jim and Chaz reminds me of the prince and his "advisor" from Braveheart
Turbo

 
Posts: 404
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: El Monte, CA

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby lakerfan2 on Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:15 pm

Forklift wrote:this is why you need professional scouts.... so you don't pick Kwame over Gasol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_NBA_Draft


Other than Gasol and Parker, that was an ugly draft. :man10:

Wasn't Jordan the one who wanted Kwame?
#OURHOUSE
User avatar
lakerfan2

 
Posts: 9749
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:23 pm

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby Doberman on Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:13 pm

TIME wrote:
Doberman wrote:
Jim Buss responded with his now famous quote. "Evaluating basketball talent is not too difficult," he told Sports Illustrated many years ago. "If you grabbed 10 fans out of a bar and asked them to rate prospects, their opinions would be pretty much identical to those of the pro scouts."


This man agrees:

Image


So, are you doing your typical Jim Buss can do no wrong defense, or are you seriously defending that quote as a reasonable and accurate truism regarding NBA scouting based on a single obviously exceptional case in Lin?


He's just the latest example of many.
Doberman

 
Posts: 1933
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 9:55 pm

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby bruddahmanmatt on Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:19 pm

lakerfan2 wrote:
Forklift wrote:this is why you need professional scouts.... so you don't pick Kwame over Gasol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_NBA_Draft


Other than Gasol and Parker, that was an ugly draft. :man10:

Wasn't Jordan the one who wanted Kwame?


Tyson Chandler, Jason Richardson, Shane Battier, Joe Johnson, Vladimir Radmanovic, Richard Jefferson, Troy Murphy, Zach Randolph, Brendan Haywood, Gerald Wallace, Samuel Dalembert, Gilbert Arenas, Mehmet Okur, Earl Watson.

Not all of them were/are all-star material, but that draft brought more than a handful of capable talent into the league.
P&G
bruddahmanmatt

 
Posts: 12220
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:57 am

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby Doberman on Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:21 pm

Forklift wrote:this is why you need professional scouts.... so you don't pick Kwame over Gasol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_NBA_Draft


Those were professional scouts. Pretty much proving Jim Buss' point.

The NFL's the same way. Scouts put WAAAY too much stock in measurables/athleticism, which you don't need any expertise to gauge. Just line em up at the combine and pick the best performers. I think there are a few scouts employed that genuinely look beyond that and are actually good. But look at the draft results year after year. It's a crap shoot. And most of the picks based on scouting would've been more or less the same as a fan who watches alot of games, to the point where he can formulate an opinion on the best players.

A FedEx delivery guy that watches alot of NCAA ball predicted Jeremy Lin would be star material. Every "pro scout" figured he didn't deserve to even be in the NBA. For the most part, our opinion is as good as theirs.
Doberman

 
Posts: 1933
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 9:55 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Lakers Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Battle Tested20, Google [Bot], John3:16, scissors and 31 guests

cron
Advertise Here | Privacy Policy | ©2008 Sculu Sports. Come Strong.