Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby brickshooter on Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:02 pm

IMO, the Lakers have done a better job at picks than most teams considering that they were stuck with late 1st and 2nd round picks who are generally out of the league in 4 years. Although most are on other teams now, they are valuable pieces had the Lakers chosen to keep them.

So the Lakers used to have professional scouts. Now they have a bartender and a bikini model.

:disagree:
brickshooter

 
Posts: 879
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 8:26 am

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby Jporkel on Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:42 pm

I'm wracking my brain to remember all the great picks and free agent signings the prior scouting staff produced. Bynum and Marc Gasol come to mind, maybe Turiaf if you're generous. What other good rotation or starting players has the prior scouting staff found via the draft or free agency to warrant this level of distress that they're gone?
Jporkel

 
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:41 pm

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby TIME on Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:49 pm

Jporkel wrote:I'm wracking my brain to remember all the great picks and free agent signings the prior scouting staff produced. Bynum and Marc Gasol come to mind, maybe Turiaf if you're generous. What other good rotation or starting players has the prior scouting staff found via the draft or free agency to warrant this level of distress that they're gone?


Two key examples. If a team misses on players of that quality it can affect the team for an entire decade. Even if the only thing our previous scouts accomplished led to drafting Bynum and Marc Gasol then they earned their pay and should have been retained. That's two all star bigs, and 2 of the current top 5 bigs in the entire league.
I'm lost in the fog of denial!
User avatar
TIME
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 9435
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:06 am

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby Lakerman JSJ on Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:36 pm

Image

I don't even care if this gif has already been posted in this thread. Can't see too much of it.
Image <-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Every time you want to unload on CL about how terrible our Ownership/Front Office is, I want you to step back, take a deep breath and read THIS.
User avatar
Lakerman JSJ
Clublakers Moderator
 
Posts: 13091
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:35 pm
Location: http://twitter.com/hosesway

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby Jporkel on Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:34 pm

TIME wrote:
Jporkel wrote:I'm wracking my brain to remember all the great picks and free agent signings the prior scouting staff produced. Bynum and Marc Gasol come to mind, maybe Turiaf if you're generous. What other good rotation or starting players has the prior scouting staff found via the draft or free agency to warrant this level of distress that they're gone?


Two key examples. If a team misses on players of that quality it can affect the team for an entire decade. Even if the only thing our previous scouts accomplished led to drafting Bynum and Marc Gasol then they earned their pay and should have been retained. That's two all star bigs, and 2 of the current top 5 bigs in the entire league.


Two good bigs over the last, let's say, ten years just doesn't seem to be that great a record. I recall a lot of complaints about the Lakers drafting and FA signings right up until Jim Buss fired them all.
Jporkel

 
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:41 pm

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby Rooscooter on Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:50 pm

TIME wrote:
Jporkel wrote:I'm wracking my brain to remember all the great picks and free agent signings the prior scouting staff produced. Bynum and Marc Gasol come to mind, maybe Turiaf if you're generous. What other good rotation or starting players has the prior scouting staff found via the draft or free agency to warrant this level of distress that they're gone?


Two key examples. If a team misses on players of that quality it can affect the team for an entire decade. Even if the only thing our previous scouts accomplished led to drafting Bynum and Marc Gasol then they earned their pay and should have been retained. That's two all star bigs, and 2 of the current top 5 bigs in the entire league.


While I agree that we did well with both I have a little different take. Bynum was a top 10 pick.... statistically speaking it's easier to get an impact player there..... and we did which is great but it wasn't a "surprise pick" of a obscure player that nobody knew about that became an All Star. It was a nice pick.... Eddie Jones was a similar pick for us 15 years earlier at a similar position. Marc Gasol was more of a find than anything we've done since Nick Van Exel. Nick fell down the draft board because of off the court issues so it wasn't quite the same either.

Now, we have listed all of our "impact draft picks" for the last 20 years (maybe a couple others in there)..... This speaks to the larger issue of how we have approached the draft in the "Buss" era....

You can way back and see much of the same. Magic and Worthy both came from picks acquired before Jerry Buss bought the team and we got kind of lucky with both of those picks..... and we have the "lottery" now because of it. Byron Scott A.C. Green and Vlade are the only other "impact players" that I can put my finger on over the last 30 years.

Our success has something to do with this as well. Rather than concentrate of finding diamonds in the rough we put our efforts in Free Agency and trades over the years....... I think it turned out O.K. as well.....
"If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

“The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present - and is gravely to be regarded." Dwight Eisenhower

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it" Thomas Sowell
User avatar
Rooscooter

 
Posts: 22583
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:25 pm
Location: Chandler AZ and Andalué

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby Phil XI on Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:22 pm

It's just a strategy. Spend resources mining for the diamonds or pay for them at the jewelry store.

I'd say Eddie Jones, Elvis Campbell, and Vlade Divac were nice 1st rd selections in that post Kareem era.
Get 17!!
User avatar
Phil XI

 
Posts: 1680
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:23 pm
Location: Thanks Ron for Gm7! You'll always be a Laker Legend!

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby TIME on Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:39 pm

Rooscooter wrote:
TIME wrote:
Jporkel wrote:I'm wracking my brain to remember all the great picks and free agent signings the prior scouting staff produced. Bynum and Marc Gasol come to mind, maybe Turiaf if you're generous. What other good rotation or starting players has the prior scouting staff found via the draft or free agency to warrant this level of distress that they're gone?


Two key examples. If a team misses on players of that quality it can affect the team for an entire decade. Even if the only thing our previous scouts accomplished led to drafting Bynum and Marc Gasol then they earned their pay and should have been retained. That's two all star bigs, and 2 of the current top 5 bigs in the entire league.


While I agree that we did well with both I have a little different take. Bynum was a top 10 pick.... statistically speaking it's easier to get an impact player there..... and we did which is great but it wasn't a "surprise pick" of a obscure player that nobody knew about that became an All Star. It was a nice pick.... Eddie Jones was a similar pick for us 15 years earlier at a similar position. Marc Gasol was more of a find than anything we've done since Nick Van Exel. Nick fell down the draft board because of off the court issues so it wasn't quite the same either.

Now, we have listed all of our "impact draft picks" for the last 20 years (maybe a couple others in there)..... This speaks to the larger issue of how we have approached the draft in the "Buss" era....

You can way back and see much of the same. Magic and Worthy both came from picks acquired before Jerry Buss bought the team and we got kind of lucky with both of those picks..... and we have the "lottery" now because of it. Byron Scott A.C. Green and Vlade are the only other "impact players" that I can put my finger on over the last 30 years.

Our success has something to do with this as well. Rather than concentrate of finding diamonds in the rough we put our efforts in Free Agency and trades over the years....... I think it turned out O.K. as well.....


Here was the draft in Bynum's year:

1. Andrew Bogut
2. Marvin Williams
3. Deron Williams
4. Chris Paul
5. Raymond Felton
6. Martell Webster
7. Charlie Villanueva
8. Channing Frye
9. Ike Diogu
10. Andrew Bynum

At WORST he would be drafted third today in that group. It doesn't matter if others scouted him. What matters is Ronnie Lester found us one of the top three players in that draft class at the 10 spot. My point was that it only takes one or two finds like that to make a career as a scout because of how that impact player affects the team over a 10 year or more period. IMO scouting is even more important in the NBA than in the NFL where scouting is HUGE. NBA has only two rounds and with only 12 players one special player can dramatically change the team.
I'm lost in the fog of denial!
User avatar
TIME
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 9435
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:06 am

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby TIME on Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:44 pm

Phil XI wrote:
Elvis Campbell


Sorry Phil, Elvis has left the building! :man10:
I'm lost in the fog of denial!
User avatar
TIME
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 9435
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:06 am

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby JSM on Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:44 am

Roland Lazenby: Chaz has told folks that the Lakers traded Lamar in a rush because they thought he was going to retire suddenly.
User avatar
JSM
ClubLakers.com Administrator
 
Posts: 93988
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2003 3:40 pm
Location: Atlanta

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby Rooscooter on Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:20 pm

TIME wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:While I agree that we did well with both I have a little different take. Bynum was a top 10 pick.... statistically speaking it's easier to get an impact player there..... and we did which is great but it wasn't a "surprise pick" of a obscure player that nobody knew about that became an All Star. It was a nice pick.... Eddie Jones was a similar pick for us 15 years earlier at a similar position. Marc Gasol was more of a find than anything we've done since Nick Van Exel. Nick fell down the draft board because of off the court issues so it wasn't quite the same either.

Now, we have listed all of our "impact draft picks" for the last 20 years (maybe a couple others in there)..... This speaks to the larger issue of how we have approached the draft in the "Buss" era....

You can way back and see much of the same. Magic and Worthy both came from picks acquired before Jerry Buss bought the team and we got kind of lucky with both of those picks..... and we have the "lottery" now because of it. Byron Scott A.C. Green and Vlade are the only other "impact players" that I can put my finger on over the last 30 years.

Our success has something to do with this as well. Rather than concentrate of finding diamonds in the rough we put our efforts in Free Agency and trades over the years....... I think it turned out O.K. as well.....


Here was the draft in Bynum's year:

1. Andrew Bogut
2. Marvin Williams
3. Deron Williams
4. Chris Paul
5. Raymond Felton
6. Martell Webster
7. Charlie Villanueva
8. Channing Frye
9. Ike Diogu
10. Andrew Bynum

At WORST he would be drafted third today in that group. It doesn't matter if others scouted him. What matters is Ronnie Lester found us one of the top three players in that draft class at the 10 spot. My point was that it only takes one or two finds like that to make a career as a scout because of how that impact player affects the team over a 10 year or more period. IMO scouting is even more important in the NBA than in the NFL where scouting is HUGE. NBA has only two rounds and with only 12 players one special player can dramatically change the team.


I don't disagree that scouting is important.... not sure where you are getting that. What I'm saying is that I'm not sure ownership agrees. They have never really entered the "modern age" in scouting and are now going in the opposite direction. Further, I don't think the Lakers look to the draft to build or sustain their team. The 30 years of the Buss Regime show that fairly clearly.

I don't agree with it..... just explaining my take on why it isn't a huge loss to lose something you weren't really using...
"If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

“The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present - and is gravely to be regarded." Dwight Eisenhower

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it" Thomas Sowell
User avatar
Rooscooter

 
Posts: 22583
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:25 pm
Location: Chandler AZ and Andalué

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:36 pm

Wow, just found this out. Just unbelievable. What little faith i had in Jr has completely evaporated. Gone are the days when i knew the organization would make the right decisions. Now we got Larry, Mo and Curly scouting for this team. Not one of them probably ever played the game so they probably don't even know how to scout for talent. Just unreal.
User avatar
Lets Go Lakers

 
Posts: 2747
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:25 pm

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby Slurpee22 on Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:43 pm

Jim Buss has slowly ruined the reputation of this franchise, everyone knows this....
Slurpee22

 
Posts: 477
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:40 am
Location: Forrest Island

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:47 pm

gcclaker wrote:
John3:16 wrote:
Lakerjones wrote: Chaz the bartender knows as much about scouting as Ronnie Lester? I highly doubt it.

:bow: We all have opinions on how the Lakers should be ran. Some make sense, others don't. However, I don't want anyone from a bar or even someone from CL running the Lakers. I want an expert. Someone who has a keen eye for seeing what others don't. I read once that Phil Jax and Jerry West were watching a game and they both picked up on things no one else did. That's who I want. Just because someone has the title, the paycheck, and makes a mean margarita doesn't mean they're the professional.

Yes, a former player would know nuances and subtleties about a prospect's game or more importantly gauge their attitude for success being able to see through the cliches and jockspeak. I'm in line with West's comments of how scouts are undervalued. The Jimmy and Chaz Show will now have to go up against men with that innate knowledge.


And they will never win that battle. There are probably millions of people more qualified to scout for the Lakers than these two Buss' and Chaz. Just unreal to think that one of the most recognizable and respected sports franchises in the world has these 3 idiots actually scouting for raw talent.
User avatar
Lets Go Lakers

 
Posts: 2747
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:25 pm

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:54 pm

dmaul wrote:Oh my god, this is sad. The other teams in the league have got to be laughing at us. You hire a bartender, a model, and your early 20s brother - is that the same retard who got up on the podium and accepted the 2009 championship? I was embarrassed by that moment. Now, these numbnuts are running are beloved franchise.

I am truly dumbfounded. The concept of being qualified and experienced means nothing to this Jim Buss. He might as well hire the five guys who have the most posts on ClubLakers to be the scouting department. I mean, it couldn't be any worse.


All 3 guys have zero experience and qualifications in basketball. I would hope to think that there is more to the scouting dept and that there are actually pro scouts who know what they are doing reporting to tbese 3 dumbos behind the scenes. If not, this team is in serious trouble.
User avatar
Lets Go Lakers

 
Posts: 2747
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:25 pm

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:56 pm

Frank Dux wrote:
live and die in LA wrote:IMO these scouts aren't really as important as many think.


Yes they are. A good GM needs a great set of eyes to help find the diamonds in the rough. Do you think Mitch has time to sift through all the trash? San Antonio got where they are today finding something in guys that other GM's missed.


Do you guys really think this guy is going to find us the Luis Scola's, Tony Parkers, Gilbert Arenas?
Image


:man10:
User avatar
Lets Go Lakers

 
Posts: 2747
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:25 pm

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby Weezy on Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:02 am

Slurpee22 wrote:Jim Buss has slowly ruined the reputation of this franchise, everyone knows this....


Ugh, again with the comments to the absolute extreme. Jim's reputation isn't great, but to say he's "ruined" the reputation of the whole franchise, come on.

As for Chaz the scout, ugh again, I hate being reminded of this.
User avatar
Weezy
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 50920
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:14 am
Location: Anaheim, CA

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:03 am

live and die in LA wrote:IMO these scouts aren't really as important as many think. They watch college and international games, then give the reports to Mitch. It is up to Mitch to look into players further. Even if the scouts miss out on a certain player, with today's media the GM would have to be slacking to miss out on trending players. Sure it is a bit embarrassing that the Lakers are hiring scouts that have no qualification, but former players are given these positions all the time when we really have no idea if they can correctly identify talent. Look at Michael Jordan. How has he done in Washington/Charlotte?


How do you think all these Internet friendly rankings of high school and college prospects are formulated? You need actualguys in the trenches to go to games and evaluate talent. For Buss Jr to disrespect the profession of scouting by saying anyone can do it tells me he's an ignorant bastard. It's common nature for people who haven't tried something to say, "how hard can it be.?" It's the people who actually do it that realize there is a lot more to it than meets.the eye.
User avatar
Lets Go Lakers

 
Posts: 2747
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:25 pm

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby Rooscooter on Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:28 am

^^to see the real value of "scouting" you need to look no further than the last 25 years draft history. Take each of the last 25 drafts and re-rank the players based on their performance in the NBA after their draft….. you'll find 80% of the time the pre-draft "rankings" are no better than throwing darts at a list of players. Scouts help you find good players but good scouts are few and far between and even the good ones have are 50-50 at best. The proof is right there in the past drafts.

The Lakers do not value scouting and the draft. The last 15 years show that pretty clearly. In fact most of the Buss ownership shows that. The picks that netted us Magic and Worthy at the top of the draft were acquired prior to Buss owning the team. In the 90's we acquired picks and drafted fairly well but when it didn't produce a consistent winner we went to FA and trades. The new CBA is taking lot of that away from us and not having trade pieces and the restrictions on trading firsts makes our lack of scouting more of an issue….. but to say that having "experienced" scouts leads to successful drafts just doesn't play out if you look at the history of the draft.
"If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

“The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present - and is gravely to be regarded." Dwight Eisenhower

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it" Thomas Sowell
User avatar
Rooscooter

 
Posts: 22583
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:25 pm
Location: Chandler AZ and Andalué

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby khmrP on Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:52 pm

is Chaz still scouting for this team?
User avatar
khmrP

 
Posts: 10422
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 10:45 pm

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:46 pm

Rooscooter wrote:^^to see the real value of "scouting" you need to look no further than the last 25 years draft history. Take each of the last 25 drafts and re-rank the players based on their performance in the NBA after their draft….. you'll find 80% of the time the pre-draft "rankings" are no better than throwing darts at a list of players. Scouts help you find good players but good scouts are few and far between and even the good ones have are 50-50 at best. The proof is right there in the past drafts.

The Lakers do not value scouting and the draft. The last 15 years show that pretty clearly. In fact most of the Buss ownership shows that. The picks that netted us Magic and Worthy at the top of the draft were acquired prior to Buss owning the team. In the 90's we acquired picks and drafted fairly well but when it didn't produce a consistent winner we went to FA and trades. The new CBA is taking lot of that away from us and not having trade pieces and the restrictions on trading firsts makes our lack of scouting more of an issue….. but to say that having "experienced" scouts leads to successful drafts just doesn't play out if you look at the history of the draft.


Of course nothing in life is guaranteed where you have to make predictions about the future.

And I don't agree that the Lakers do not value drafting. The point of the draft is to acquire superstar players and we've been lucky enough to acquire superstar talent through other means. But had the superstar talent not been on this roster, the draft is where we would've looked. And considering the type of picks we've had in the last 15 years or so, they haven't done that bad. I mean you just don't find impact players late in the 1st or 2nd rounds. It's a rarity.

And I never said having good scouts leads to successful drafts. But I would rather have experienced scouts working for me over 3 guys who don't have a clue of what their doing.
User avatar
Lets Go Lakers

 
Posts: 2747
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:25 pm

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby Lets Go Lakers on Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:50 pm

khmrP wrote:is Chaz still scouting for this team?


They're currently scouting talent at the bar.
User avatar
Lets Go Lakers

 
Posts: 2747
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:25 pm

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby bigdog2013 on Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:00 am

the lakers havent drafted well since 1996.
bigdog2013

 
Posts: 139
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:51 am

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby Chillbongo on Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:17 am

Aren't these scouts looking at college players as well as players that are on other teams? In that case, Henry, Marshall, and Young were good pickups. Sacre (at the 60th pick I believe) has been at least somewhat serviceable. As much as I hated on Jim for the Chaz thing we've done OK in terms of talent scouting.

That being said we've got to make sure we absolutely nail our 2014 pick.
User avatar
Chillbongo

 
Posts: 3228
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:25 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Lazenby: Chaz - aka Bartender Scout hired by Jim Buss

Postby jimbo327 on Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:00 am

They can at least talk it over drinks.
Soylent Green is People!
User avatar
jimbo327

 
Posts: 14897
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 10:56 pm
Location: Where Else?

PreviousNext

Return to Lakers Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: John3:16, laakers, thkthebest and 20 guests

cron
Advertise Here | Privacy Policy | ©2008 Sculu Sports. Come Strong.