a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby ElginTheGreat on Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:01 pm

gcclaker wrote:
ElginTheGreat wrote:
gcclaker wrote:
ElginTheGreat wrote:Personally, I do not want to see MDA get booed or hear the We Want Phil chants when he takes the court even though some of that is probably inevitable. Time to look toward the future with the current coach and players.

If those instances were to happen, then it is a sad statement and lack of class on the part of the Laker fanbase.

I hope you are right. But I think the way this was handled along with experts continuing to fan the flames is really setting MDA up for a fall especially if we get off to a slow start in his offense.

It's unfortunate but true. Not fair? Or course it isn't. It's pathetic actually...

I remember a story of Pat Riley gathering the troops in 1987 after an opening game loss to Houston with questions running amock about an aging squad. He told them the cavalry isn't coming and all they had was themselves. Not saying they equate but there are parallels... It's time for this current crew to block out the "peripheral enemies" and just play... It's about the boys and what happens in between that 94 x 50 chunk of hardwood.

D'Antoni wasn't my first choice or second for the matter but I am NOT about to as a fan to wallow in pity and misery about the Jackson fiasco. I've been on a slow burn how the new coach is portrayed. You figure D'Antoni is intelligent enough for some to formulate a scheme to FIT the personnel on hand. F it! Let's go!



Exactly.
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby therealdeal on Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:43 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:It is what it is...I guess we have to move on...

:jam2:
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby Lakerjones on Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:03 pm

therealdeal wrote:
Vasashi17 wrote:It is what it is...I guess we have to move on...

:jam2:


I am attempting to move beyond this complete PR debacle but it isn't easy for me to sweep it under the rug in just a few days. Personally, I'm not going to just flip my entire thought process around and embrace the new look D' Antoni run and gun style Lakers until I see what it all entails. I was wary with Brown and it turned out poorly for us as I was concerned it would. I don't doubt at all that we'll see some more pleasing basketball. But come playoff time, my worries are that this style of basketball - the one that D' Antoni has always committed to and gone with -- is just going to play into the hands of the younger, more athletic teams at the top of the food chain, i.e. OKC and Miami. If you don't slow down the game with them they will run you out of the building.

So yeah, give me some time to digest all of this before I get out the pom poms. I want us to win, always, and I hope we do. But it's going to take some time until I'm convinced that this will work out.
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby hollywood swinger on Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:07 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:The lack of respect forces me to respond, when all I want to do is just move on. The more I reminisce on this missed opportunity, the more upset I get on how it went down.

As constructed, we're old with 2 7-footers in our front court. You don't do Showtime/uptempo with this squad. With a front court like this, you normally go with the triple post offense (its in the goddamn name..haha)...especially if your key FA is one of these 7 footers (okay 6-11) and has asked for Phil when he was in Orlando. Oh yeah...and he's the better coach. So personnel wise, triangle...player preference wise, triangle...best coach available wise, triangle. 3 strikes and I'm out....

....but wait...there's more. If Jimmy is threatened by Phil, then why would you want an insecure man as your owner? The social dynamic should not come in the way of good business decisions. Here's a question for you...why did Papa Buss choose Jimmy to take over? He didn't go to college...isn't confident...tosses daddy's money around carelessly, probably from developing a gambling habit at the horse track....and makes terrible decisions as seen with the last 2 coach hires...well, now 3 (Phil vs Dantoni..sorry but you HAVE to roll with Phil if you have a win now team).

Meanwhile you got a woman in Jeanie who is confident to bag the most winningest coach and pose nude for Playboy..nice! She went to college and got a degree, hence she's got the proper credentials and smarts to run an organization like the Lakers. Oh yeah, and she makes money, instead of throwing it away as seen by her shrewd decisions in running the business side of the organization...TWC contract...hello!

Lastly, you need talent to win hardware....so yes, Phil needed stars. But where exactly were Shaq and Kobe before the Zen? Getting swept out of the playoffs..that's where! Also, you're right that this organization owes alot to Phil in bringing 5 more titles, but so too does Phil owe the organization. And he did just that, when Kobe was the face of the franchise and was struggling with a team of Brian Grant, Smush, Mihm, Atkins, yikes. Phil came back the 2nd time to a team that didn't really have any championship aspirations. He said he came back to coach Kobe...cause he owed it to him. He felt he disrespected Kobe as a player and took him for granted when Shaq was here. Phil came back cause he owed it to the organization and Jeanie to get such a storied franchise out of the deep end...and as you know, he earned 2 more rings for staying the course.

We've debated this ad naseum, but I won't stand for disrespecting a man that not only wanted this job, but deserved it! The insecurity and ego of a career slacker who is lucky to have the right surname, cost us a reunion that had the highest probability of ending in a parade down Figueroa.

I love Dr. Buss...but I don't believe in Jimmy!
Make us believe....instead of giving us make believe...


come on stop acting like phil is some well loved well liked coach in this league. Other coaches don't even want to give him credit for his rings. the truth of the matter is the triangle is over and that style of play will not win a championship in this era. I can't believe all the people here crying for phil when last i remember they were the very ones crying about his rotations , the player contracts we were locked into because phil needed slow non athletic types to run that jurassic park offense.
The one thing that amazes me is people saying the Lakers 'misled' the fans that they were gonna hire phil. show me 1 comment from anyone in the Lakers front office that said they were considering phil..... you can't because they never did. mitch got asked a question at presser when they dumped mike brown and he said we would basically consider phil like we will other candidates. people got caught up in the moment wanting to live in the past and thought phil was a done deal and it wasn't. I hope today's MDA presser made you see there is nothing wrong with new voices or philosphy. I am all for trying to go forward with MDA new energy and style as opposed to going with a retread situation with phil when last time he was here the team kinda tuned out his voice.
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby The Rock on Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:21 pm

Im gonna start the We Want Phil chant at the game Friday :man9: kidding
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby Vasashi17 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:45 pm



Well if you're well-liked in this league, you ain't winning. Look at Kobe...respected by many, but really not liked by alot...its cause he busts their @ when he plays against them.

The triangle hasn't won in this era? What era are you living in? It won back to back just 2 seasons ago (with last season being a lockout shortened season).

You do remember Shannon Brown, Trevor Ariza, Jordan Farmar? I don't think they fit under the slow non athletic types. The triangle is a jurassic park offense? :man3: Phil's triangle was introduced in the 90s and pretty much dominated the decade...then it followed up by winning half the 2000 decade. I'm sure you know how old the PnR is, right? Heck, even the offense they're trying to duplicate is from the 80s.

show me 1 comment from anyone in the Lakers front office that said they were considering phil.....

How about I let you answer this one for me....
mitch got asked a question at presser when they dumped mike brown and he said we would basically consider phil like we will other candidates.

May I also add that the sit down they had at Phil's house for more than 90 minutes which both Mitch and Phil corroborated also makes one believe that Phil was being considered for the job.

I am all for trying to go forward with MDA

Finally, for once, I can agree with you.....and please, don't pull me back in! :freak2:
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby hollywood swinger on Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:45 pm

visiting phil was a courtesy move for phil and jeannie. the lakers never wanted to go back to phil & that includes both busses & mitch. i am with you also lets move on and see what happens with new coach.
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby MC on Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:02 am

hollywood swinger wrote:
come on stop acting like phil is some well loved well liked coach in this league. Other coaches don't even want to give him credit for his rings. the truth of the matter is the triangle is over and that style of play will not win a championship in this era.


I call BS on this.......

first off..... in the last 25 years we have had 1 team that did it with a running style playing small ball..... ONE! ...... how do you go about supporting your argument that system basketball somehow can't win now? When the playoffs get deep it's half court basketball that wins you ball games....... not run, run, run ...... even the Heat had to learn that the hard way year 1 of their super team. Run, run,run athletic teams are great for the regular season and fun to watch..... but winning championships that way? 1 out of 25 is not placing your bet on the right horse. It's the Showtime platform that is the long shot, not the other way around.

Second......... that is the problem with the world today......... people, work is not social hour or HS all over again..... we do not go to work to make friends..... those people that do are generally coat tail riders hitching a free ride on the real people who get things done. Phil is respected but not well liked....... I say good, wouldn't have it ANY other way for a leader of men.

Now we just had to ride this decision out and see what we got. I think people with an educated mind know this.... pointless making an a** out of ourselves before giving a window of opportunity to get a proper sample to make conclusions from. I think it can work, I just don't think it's the best way given the makeup of the roster............

IMO.....if it works all it it will be is an over abundance of talent making up for a poor basketball philosophy just like the Heat were a collection of over the top talent that managed to sneak out 1 ring running a poor mans philosophy. majority of the time the team that runs their half court sets more efficiently while allowing their defense to get set on the other end of the floor thru-out the playoffs will win the title just like it has been since the start...... can't run on teams like that until they make the mistake........ the counter punch only works if you don't get knocked the F...... out by the power shots coming your way first.... that is why running athletic teams are almost always going to end up bridesmaids majority of the time..... it takes a major advantage superstar(S) wise to make up for the poor philosophy.
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby hollywood swinger on Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:35 am

MC wrote:
hollywood swinger wrote:
come on stop acting like phil is some well loved well liked coach in this league. Other coaches don't even want to give him credit for his rings. the truth of the matter is the triangle is over and that style of play will not win a championship in this era.


I call BS on this.......

first off..... in the last 25 years we have had 1 team that did it with a running style playing small ball..... ONE! ...... how do you go about supporting your argument that system basketball somehow can't win now? When the playoffs get deep it's half court basketball that wins you ball games....... not run, run, run ...... even the Heat had to learn that the hard way year 1 of their super team. Run, run,run athletic teams are great for the regular season and fun to watch..... but winning championships that way? 1 out of 25 is not placing your bet on the right horse. It's the Showtime platform that is the long shot, not the other way around.

Second......... that is the problem with the world today......... people, work is not social hour or HS all over again..... we do not go to work to make friends..... those people that do are generally coat tail riders hitching a free ride on the real people who get things done. Phil is respected but not well liked....... I say good, wouldn't have it ANY other way for a leader of men.

Now we just had to ride this decision out and see what we got. I think people with an educated mind know this.... pointless making an a** out of ourselves before giving a window of opportunity to get a proper sample to make conclusions from. I think it can work, I just don't think it's the best way given the makeup of the roster............

IMO.....if it works all it it will be is an over abundance of talent making up for a poor basketball philosophy just like the Heat were a collection of over the top talent that managed to sneak out 1 ring running a poor mans philosophy. majority of the time the team that runs their half court sets more efficiently while allowing their defense to get set on the other end of the floor thru-out the playoffs will win the title just like it has been since the start...... can't run on teams like that until they make the mistake........ the counter punch only works if you don't get knocked the F...... out by the power shots coming your way first.... that is why running athletic teams are almost always going to end up bridesmaids majority of the time..... it takes a major advantage superstar(S) wise to make up for the poor philosophy.


where did i say system ball can't win? MDA has a system he runs. if you heard the presser yesterday MDA said we are gonna pick our spots to run. playing fast and running are 2 different things. I for one am completely over the triangle. i can't believe how many here are still living on past glory.
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby TIME on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:44 am

hollywood swinger wrote:
where did i say system ball can't win? MDA has a system he runs. if you heard the presser yesterday MDA said we are gonna pick our spots to run. playing fast and running are 2 different things. I for one am completely over the triangle. i can't believe how many here are still living on past glory.


It's kind of shortsighted to claim the triangle is a dead system. If prime Jordan and Pippin were running it, or prime Shaq and Kobe no one would be over it.
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby Vasashi17 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:23 am

You can't believe how many here are still living on past glory? Wow...
Well you know past glory doesn't just stop with our CL banner that has some ex-Laker greats.

Today the Lakers are actually celebrating past glory by revealing a statue outside of Staples that has Kareem Abdul Jabbar's likeness. This statue joins greats like Jerry West, Magic and the late and greatest to ever do it, Chick Stern. It doesn't stop on the periphery of Staples either. Whether you walk into Staples and notice the 16 stars on our home court or are watching them on TV, the Lakers are all about living on past glory. And then you focus your attention upwards into the rafters...yet again there are championship banners and retired jerseys.

I'm sure we all here can't believe that you don't want to honor our past glory. You should probably join the "Club". :man1:
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby Thenextgreat on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:36 am

Magic is entitled to his opinion he is not part of the Laker organization anymore so he can say whatever he wants as an analyst...otherwise he is not doing his job.
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby hollywood swinger on Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:02 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:You can't believe how many here are still living on past glory? Wow...
Well you know past glory doesn't just stop with our CL banner that has some ex-Laker greats.

Today the Lakers are actually celebrating past glory by revealing a statue outside of Staples that has Kareem Abdul Jabbar's likeness. This statue joins greats like Jerry West, Magic and the late and greatest to ever do it, Chick Stern. It doesn't stop on the periphery of Staples either. Whether you walk into Staples and notice the 16 stars on our home court or are watching them on TV, the Lakers are all about living on past glory. And then you focus your attention upwards into the rafters...yet again there are championship banners and retired jerseys.

I'm sure we all here can't believe that you don't want to honor our past glory. You should probably join the "Club". :man1:

My point is the Lakers never are afraid to try a new edge to stay on top. They obviously believe that so they passed on a system of the past to move fwd. you can keep revisiting the past if you want to impact the future. The triangle is too methodical to win in todays athletic fast nba.
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby Congo Cash on Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:03 pm

hollywood swinger wrote:visiting phil was a courtesy move for phil and jeannie. the lakers never wanted to go back to phil & that includes both busses & mitch. i am with you also lets move on and see what happens with new coach.

Ya, this is what I was thinking as well... I don't think he was really on their radar...
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby VincentTH on Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:48 pm

It appears to me that all the coaches that failed elsewhere got Jimmy Buss to hire them! :bang:
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby snackdaddy on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:00 pm

ElginTheGreat wrote:It's over folks. Time to put the drama aside and get behind our new coach. This rift between Jim and Phil has been playing out for a while and this is just the latest episode in the saga. I am rooting even harder for MDA so we don't have to hear a rehash about this every time a game comes on.

Overall, the Lakers did handle this very poorly, but it just doesn't matter anymore. The situation is what it is and I don't want to spend this season like last season where the whole thing was tarnished when the CP3 deal got shot down.

Also, while I can't say it hurt him, the lack of confidence the fan base had in him certainly did not help Brown. Personally, I do not want to see MDA get booed or hear the we want Phil chants when he takes the court even though some of that is probably inevitable.

No more conspiracy theories, etc. Time to look toward the future with the current coach and players.


This. I don't this season to be about Phil vs. Jimmy. I want to enjoy Laker basketball. I can't wait to see what Nash will do with a system he's more familiar with and better players than he had in Phoenix.

I can't wait to see what Kobe will do with a coach he admired enough to change his jersey number and the best center in the league.

This Laker team has an opportunity to not only give Kobe enough rings to surpass the great Michael Jordan in the next two seasons, but to pass the Celtics for the most NBA titles. Can you imagine what that would do to Celtic fans?

I don't want this side show to diminish that. Its not like we can change it now. We just need to play the hand we're dealt.
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby MC on Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:03 am

hollywood swinger wrote:
MC wrote:
hollywood swinger wrote:
come on stop acting like phil is some well loved well liked coach in this league. Other coaches don't even want to give him credit for his rings. the truth of the matter is the triangle is over and that style of play will not win a championship in this era.


I call BS on this.......

first off..... in the last 25 years we have had 1 team that did it with a running style playing small ball..... ONE! ...... how do you go about supporting your argument that system basketball somehow can't win now? When the playoffs get deep it's half court basketball that wins you ball games....... not run, run, run ...... even the Heat had to learn that the hard way year 1 of their super team. Run, run,run athletic teams are great for the regular season and fun to watch..... but winning championships that way? 1 out of 25 is not placing your bet on the right horse. It's the Showtime platform that is the long shot, not the other way around.

Second......... that is the problem with the world today......... people, work is not social hour or HS all over again..... we do not go to work to make friends..... those people that do are generally coat tail riders hitching a free ride on the real people who get things done. Phil is respected but not well liked....... I say good, wouldn't have it ANY other way for a leader of men.

Now we just had to ride this decision out and see what we got. I think people with an educated mind know this.... pointless making an a** out of ourselves before giving a window of opportunity to get a proper sample to make conclusions from. I think it can work, I just don't think it's the best way given the makeup of the roster............

IMO.....if it works all it it will be is an over abundance of talent making up for a poor basketball philosophy just like the Heat were a collection of over the top talent that managed to sneak out 1 ring running a poor mans philosophy. majority of the time the team that runs their half court sets more efficiently while allowing their defense to get set on the other end of the floor thru-out the playoffs will win the title just like it has been since the start...... can't run on teams like that until they make the mistake........ the counter punch only works if you don't get knocked the F...... out by the power shots coming your way first.... that is why running athletic teams are almost always going to end up bridesmaids majority of the time..... it takes a major advantage superstar(S) wise to make up for the poor philosophy.


where did i say system ball can't win? MDA has a system he runs. if you heard the presser yesterday MDA said we are gonna pick our spots to run. playing fast and running are 2 different things. I for one am completely over the triangle. i can't believe how many here are still living on past glory.


You said the TRIANGLE is basically finished and that STYLE OF PLAY can't win in this era........... the Triangle, like the Princeton, is a paced ball movement tied with player movement type of system you say can't win in todays era.......... again I call BS.

I didn't have to watch an MDA presser to know they will have to pick their spots when pushing the pace. What I would need however is something to examine MDA's mental capacity if he thought anything different. That my friend is a no brainer. They are going to probe the break while running high screen/pick & roles from the middle of the floor with guys trying to space the ball............ you don't have to be a genius to figure out what MDA does or wants in his "system".

I'm not stuck in the past, I accept this move and see it potentially working.............. I'm just not going as far as saying the triangle is just finished and can;t win in todays era like you did (in bold at the top). That is going over the top with hardly any argument to truly quantify that response and I'm calling you out on it.

I can count countless amounts of rings from teams that have won with size and playing a playoff half court style of basketball in the last 30 years............ I have enough room on 1 finger to count the running high pace teams rings lol.... and even that one smallish running team used better half court efficiency to beat that other running athletics team in a series where both had a hard time actually trying to run.
Last edited by MC on Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby MC on Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:26 am

Congo Cash wrote:
hollywood swinger wrote:visiting phil was a courtesy move for phil and jeannie. the lakers never wanted to go back to phil & that includes both busses & mitch. i am with you also lets move on and see what happens with new coach.

Ya, this is what I was thinking as well... I don't think he was really on their radar...


totally agree.......... I don't think they really wanted Phil the second time around. They tried purging Phil's philosophy before only to fall flat on their face and had to turn back to him. The second time around they just aren't willing to do it again and you combine that with the failed CP3 trade and now the Nash signing and what you have is a picture of "triangle dump down to the post offense yuky...... run like a gazelle and get flashy with dunks yummy........"

I just hope for their sake a 39 yr old PG can be relied on long enough and the next Magic just conveniently lands in the Lakers laps again ............... because outside of maybe 3 players in a hole generation, not too many can make the high tempo style of ball truly work in favor. As of right now our once in a generation PG just happens to be 160 in basketball years.

If there is an ancient relic that can do it though it might be kid Canada..... for the Lakers sake lets hope kid Canada has 2 more years left in the reserve tank playing that style of ball.
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby odom1year on Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:30 am

Alcindor wrote:Image


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