a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby hollywood swinger on Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:51 am

obviously magic came out today and chimed in on his dislike of jimmy buss in regards to not hiring phil jackson and it also sounded like a personal dislike also by saying 'i love Dr. Buss'. Also we have a ton of fans on this site and everywhere across america hating jimmy for not choosing phil along with analyst and all types chiming in with their opinions of how jimmy buss is the worst. The truth of the matter is if i was Jimmy buss (not that i am standing up for him as he doesn't need it) i would not be a big fan of phil jackson either. why you ask? well first off he is a much older (20+ years) the senior of my baby sister whom he will not respect enough to marry after she has basically in front of the world made it known a few years ago she wanted phil to make her an honest woman by getting married. Mind you from jimmy's perspective this is a guy my dad help to make much richer as my family has paid him 10's of millions of dollars yet he won't even respectfully marry my sister? Also from jimmy perspective which is huge and people forget by just saying 'look what phil has done for this franchise' . well hell look what this franchise has done for phil. you would think he would be grateful the Lakers gave him the chance to come and coach a young Shaq & kobe. Lets not act like he was the only one giving something to the relationship he was GIVEN the opportunity to coach the most glamorous team in League history with tons of talent. Just think people should look at things from all sides. for that matter there is no proof jimmy doesn't even dislike phil. by some accounts they just have a non existent relationship. Also lets not kid ourselves and stop thinking jimmy teased phil with the job. you know jeannie told jimmy that phil might be interested so maybe as a good look to his sister jimmy & mitch reached out to phil even though he wasn't their first choice as a courtesy to jeannie? i just don't see what the big deal is picking MDA over phil when imho MDA is the better choice for this team.
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby Alcindor on Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:01 am

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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby hdtvset on Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:08 am

Does Magic still have the talk show? I think he talks too much lately. Trying to help his Dodgers selling season tickets? :man3:
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby King of Clutch on Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:10 am

Here we go again...
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby MC on Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:14 am

^
so Jimmy's move is somehow justified in his mind because his Sister CHOOSES to stay with Phil?

I really think all these men are smart enough to not allow personal feelings to get in the way of business...... if one or all of them aren't than the leadership from the very top should be seriously grilled about every decision they make. I would have zero trust in the FO if I thought personal feelings trumped all......

Reality is DR.BUSS has mentioned many times, even during the Phil years, how he would like a fast up tempo system again that is entertaining to watch................. MDA matches EXACTLY that....... look at the failed trade of last year and now the signing of Nash.... they wanted this all along, this is their long term plan...some sort of Showtime 2.0.

To me they got exactly what they wanted..... I just don't agree with baskeball logic as it relates to this roster.... or even the future overall philosophy in general........ it takes a very special talent ot make it work, until you actually have that talent in place it's idiotic to just force feed a fast break system.... that is my opinion on that.
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby Vasashi17 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:41 am

The lack of respect forces me to respond, when all I want to do is just move on. The more I reminisce on this missed opportunity, the more upset I get on how it went down.

As constructed, we're old with 2 7-footers in our front court. You don't do Showtime/uptempo with this squad. With a front court like this, you normally go with the triple post offense (its in the goddamn name..haha)...especially if your key FA is one of these 7 footers (okay 6-11) and has asked for Phil when he was in Orlando. Oh yeah...and he's the better coach. So personnel wise, triangle...player preference wise, triangle...best coach available wise, triangle. 3 strikes and I'm out....

....but wait...there's more. If Jimmy is threatened by Phil, then why would you want an insecure man as your owner? The social dynamic should not come in the way of good business decisions. Here's a question for you...why did Papa Buss choose Jimmy to take over? He didn't go to college...isn't confident...tosses daddy's money around carelessly, probably from developing a gambling habit at the horse track....and makes terrible decisions as seen with the last 2 coach hires...well, now 3 (Phil vs Dantoni..sorry but you HAVE to roll with Phil if you have a win now team).

Meanwhile you got a woman in Jeanie who is confident to bag the most winningest coach and pose nude for Playboy..nice! She went to college and got a degree, hence she's got the proper credentials and smarts to run an organization like the Lakers. Oh yeah, and she makes money, instead of throwing it away as seen by her shrewd decisions in running the business side of the organization...TWC contract...hello!

Lastly, you need talent to win hardware....so yes, Phil needed stars. But where exactly were Shaq and Kobe before the Zen? Getting swept out of the playoffs..that's where! Also, you're right that this organization owes alot to Phil in bringing 5 more titles, but so too does Phil owe the organization. And he did just that, when Kobe was the face of the franchise and was struggling with a team of Brian Grant, Smush, Mihm, Atkins, yikes. Phil came back the 2nd time to a team that didn't really have any championship aspirations. He said he came back to coach Kobe...cause he owed it to him. He felt he disrespected Kobe as a player and took him for granted when Shaq was here. Phil came back cause he owed it to the organization and Jeanie to get such a storied franchise out of the deep end...and as you know, he earned 2 more rings for staying the course.

We've debated this ad naseum, but I won't stand for disrespecting a man that not only wanted this job, but deserved it! The insecurity and ego of a career slacker who is lucky to have the right surname, cost us a reunion that had the highest probability of ending in a parade down Figueroa.

I love Dr. Buss...but I don't believe in Jimmy!
Make us believe....instead of giving us make believe...
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby Doc Brown on Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:12 am

Why another thread of this. :bang:
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby kray28 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:13 am

Magic has put a lot of his fanboys in a tough spot by coming up on the wrong side of the divide. He's supposed to toe the party line, not add more dissent and drama to the equation.

STFU Magic.
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby khmrP on Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:43 am

I dont have as much of a problem as most do with mgmt. decision to go with MDA, however there is no argument when it comes to how badly mgmt. has handled this whole process. They disrepected and mislead not only us the fans but Phil even more so, I cannot understand how you could treat Phil so badly after all he's done for this franchise over the years.
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby Doc Brown on Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:49 am

kray28 wrote:STFU Magic.


kray28 wrote:Magic is just giving a voice to what is in my heart...what is in a lot of our hearts. But our voices don't have the credibility his does.
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby D.B. Cooper on Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:53 am

Thx for deciphering the Kray msg Doc
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby TIME on Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:53 am

I have it on what I would consider a fairly reliable source of pure speculation that the core of this Jim - Phil issue boils down to an old fashioned case of baseball cap envy. Think about it...

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Things went sour as soon as Phil started wearing this...

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Vitti uttered three words that surely applies to how Bryant made two free throws on one leg, walked off the court on his own and processed his rehabilitation plan amid the pain, frustration and tears.

“That’s really cool.”
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby kray28 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:15 am

Doc Brown wrote:
kray28 wrote:STFU Magic.


kray28 wrote:Magic is just giving a voice to what is in my heart...what is in a lot of our hearts. But our voices don't have the credibility his does.


I guess sarcasm is really a lost art.
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby kray28 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:20 am

lakerswiz wrote:Maybe you just need a different medium.


maybe i do
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby Chillbongo on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:02 pm

Supply and demand.

How many teams are there in the NBA with talented, top level players?

How many top tier coaches are there?

Sorry--but great coaches are low in supply and high in demand.

And Phil is the cream of that crop. He doesn't owe anything to anyone. Even before he came to LA, his credentials were unmatched. Before 1999, before the recent Laker dynasties--Phil still had more credentials than Popovich.
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby ElginTheGreat on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:22 pm

It's over folks. Time to put the drama aside and get behind our new coach. This rift between Jim and Phil has been playing out for a while and this is just the latest episode in the saga. I am rooting even harder for MDA so we don't have to hear a rehash about this every time a game comes on.

Overall, the Lakers did handle this very poorly, but it just doesn't matter anymore. The situation is what it is and I don't want to spend this season like last season where the whole thing was tarnished when the CP3 deal got shot down.

Also, while I can't say it hurt him, the lack of confidence the fan base had in him certainly did not help Brown. Personally, I do not want to see MDA get booed or hear the we want Phil chants when he takes the court even though some of that is probably inevitable.

No more conspiracy theories, etc. Time to look toward the future with the current coach and players.
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby gcclaker on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:27 pm

ElginTheGreat wrote:Personally, I do not want to see MDA get booed or hear the We Want Phil chants when he takes the court even though some of that is probably inevitable. Time to look toward the future with the current coach and players.

If those instances were to happen, then it is a sad statement and lack of class on the part of the Laker fanbase.
Nor can the Lakers get blamed for always making the right decisions over decades. At some point its not just luck or "gamble", its superior management and superior ownership.
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby therealdeal on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:33 pm

ElginTheGreat wrote:It's over folks. Time to put the drama aside and get behind our new coach. This rift between Jim and Phil has been playing out for a while and this is just the latest episode in the saga. I am rooting even harder for MDA so we don't have to hear a rehash about this every time a game comes on.

Overall, the Lakers did handle this very poorly, but it just doesn't matter anymore. The situation is what it is and I don't want to spend this season like last season where the whole thing was tarnished when the CP3 deal got shot down.

Also, while I can't say it hurt him, the lack of confidence the fan base had in him certainly did not help Brown. Personally, I do not want to see MDA get booed or hear the we want Phil chants when he takes the court even though some of that is probably inevitable.

No more conspiracy theories, etc. Time to look toward the future with the current coach and players.

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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby ElginTheGreat on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:37 pm

gcclaker wrote:
ElginTheGreat wrote:Personally, I do not want to see MDA get booed or hear the We Want Phil chants when he takes the court even though some of that is probably inevitable. Time to look toward the future with the current coach and players.

If those instances were to happen, then it is a sad statement and lack of class on the part of the Laker fanbase.



I hope you are right. But I think the way this was handled along with experts continuing to fan the flames is really setting MDA up for a fall especially if we get off to a slow start in his offense.
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby Vasashi17 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:42 pm

^^Agreed. This really shouldn't be about Mike D vs Phil. Both deserve applause and that is why management is getting hammered about it. They handled Phil poorly and then in doing so they put D'Antoni in a tough position. Its a lose-lose.

If there is a beef, it shouldn't be with Coach D...its gotta be with management. Firing Mike B 5 games into the season means they really never had faith in the guy, so why not ax him in the summer? Then passing on the greatest coach when he wanted the job and giving the fan base (who demanded for him) a BS explanation.

I see what management is doing: Phil retired and immediately they trade Pau (Phil's triangle guy) for CP3. They hire Brown cause in Cleveland it was pretty much Bron ball. Now, it becomes CP3/Kobe ball. Who knows if they would've been successful in flipping Bynum for D12...but if that was possible, then Cp3/Kobe/D12 is Showtime. Coach Brown just gives it to his star players and lets them dictate the offense.

But Cp3 got nixed, we remained long and old, so uptempo really can't happen. You recall that once Shaq left, it became Kobe ball. But then Kobe wanted to put a system in cause of all the losing. They brought back the triangle as a result (and probably cause season ticket holders refused to re-up if the Zen Master didn't return). So Mike B huddles with Kobe to bring a system to the offense and the Princeton was born. That is where management should have fired Brown and brought in Phil. But they blew that.

I still think that with this roster, you can't go uptempo. You don't have the youth and speed. If you got a front line like this and you have Kobe for 2 more years, then you bring in Phil and then return to Showtime in the summer of 2014 when we have cap to go after the modern day Magic (aka LeBron).

It is what it is...I guess we have to move on...
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby Lakerjones on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:45 pm

khmrP wrote:I dont have as much of a problem as most do with mgmt. decision to go with MDA, however there is no argument when it comes to how badly mgmt. has handled this whole process. They disrepected and mislead not only us the fans but Phil even more so, I cannot understand how you could treat Phil so badly after all he's done for this franchise over the years.



^^ Great post khmrP. You and I went back and forth a little in the other big thread, but on this subject we can completely agree. While I personally think the decision to go with D' Antoni was a bad one that I'm not in favor of, the bigger issue here is how the Lakers FO - and I think Jim Buss rightfully takes the brunt of the blow since he is active day to day owner and ran the interview process - mishandled this whole thing.

They could have done a lot of things differently, but in the end they pissed off Phil, they pissed off the main body of their fan base, and they've done a disservice to the coach coming in because of the way they bungled this.

Just like you said, we're not used to Jerry Buss's Lakers organization running things in such a shabby manner. We were always the classy organization. Now you have Phil Jackson, most decorated NBA coach in history calling the dealings "slimy." His agent just trashed the organization for this. Now Magic Johnson is stepping into it and calling out Jim Buss directly.

I said in another thread that the FO was going to take this on the chin, and deservedly so. How they expected anything less than a crap storm after the way they ran this, I just can't fathom.

The titles of most of the articles were quite right IMO: it's the fans who suffer the most from this. We were the ones led to get our hopes up for something that wasn't going to happen.

At the end of the day I just wanted the Lakers to take more time than last time - to really interview more coaches and make an informed decision, not the jump the gun reaction that Jimmy had with Brown. They had a golden opportunity to right the mistake they made last time. And then they make a bigger mess of this one. Sorry, but Jim's just going to have to take the heat.

Like I said last time around, we'll have to see what happens whether the actual coaching hire decision was a good one or a bad one. Others have counseled me here not to prejudge D' Antoni. I have no choice but to go with it, that part is true. But I'm incredibly skeptical of this hire because on the surface -- all things being equal and forgetting the feud between Jim and Phil -- it would certainly seem that Phil would be the guy you want because he's done this before, taken a great roster all the way. Even if he was poo-pooing them slightly saying he wasn't sure they'd get past Miami, you know that he likes to try and squash expectations somewhat.

We shall see. But I'm very disheartened with the apparent direction that Jim Buss and perhaps Jerry are going with, which seems to me to put more emphasis on a visually appealing product for television (and new 3 billion dollar contract) than on getting someone in who will have the highest chance to win a championship. To me that was Phil or the less "sexy" candidate Jerry Sloan who is another outstanding coach, and didn't even receive a phone call I might add. That reminds me of the way Jim Buss just seemed to dismiss Adelman last time.
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby pound4pound1 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:51 pm

ElginTheGreat wrote:It's over folks. Time to put the drama aside and get behind our new coach. This rift between Jim and Phil has been playing out for a while and this is just the latest episode in the saga. I am rooting even harder for MDA so we don't have to hear a rehash about this every time a game comes on.

Overall, the Lakers did handle this very poorly, but it just doesn't matter anymore. The situation is what it is and I don't want to spend this season like last season where the whole thing was tarnished when the CP3 deal got shot down.

Also, while I can't say it hurt him, the lack of confidence the fan base had in him certainly did not help Brown. Personally, I do not want to see MDA get booed or hear the we want Phil chants when he takes the court even though some of that is probably inevitable.

No more conspiracy theories, etc. Time to look toward the future with the current coach and players.



amen :bow:
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby gcclaker on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:53 pm

ElginTheGreat wrote:
gcclaker wrote:
ElginTheGreat wrote:Personally, I do not want to see MDA get booed or hear the We Want Phil chants when he takes the court even though some of that is probably inevitable. Time to look toward the future with the current coach and players.

If those instances were to happen, then it is a sad statement and lack of class on the part of the Laker fanbase.

I hope you are right. But I think the way this was handled along with experts continuing to fan the flames is really setting MDA up for a fall especially if we get off to a slow start in his offense.

It's unfortunate but true. Not fair? Or course it isn't. It's pathetic actually...

I remember a story of Pat Riley gathering the troops in 1987 after an opening game loss to Houston with questions running amock about an aging squad. He told them the cavalry isn't coming and all they had was themselves. Not saying they equate but there are parallels... It's time for this current crew to block out the "peripheral enemies" and just play... It's about the boys and what happens in between that 94 x 50 chunk of hardwood.

D'Antoni wasn't my first choice or second for the matter but I am NOT about to as a fan to wallow in pity and misery about the Jackson fiasco. I've been on a slow burn how the new coach is portrayed. You figure D'Antoni is intelligent enough for some to formulate a scheme to FIT the personnel on hand. F it! Let's go!
Nor can the Lakers get blamed for always making the right decisions over decades. At some point its not just luck or "gamble", its superior management and superior ownership.
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby ElginTheGreat on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:57 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:I still think that with this roster, you can't go uptempo. You don't have the youth and speed. If you got a front line like this and you have Kobe for 2 more years, then you bring in Phil and then return to Showtime in the summer of 2014 when we have cap to go after the modern day Magic (aka LeBron).




I agree. We can't go full umtempo, shoot in 7 seconds. But I think (or at least hope), he will do something that is more like a shoot in 15 to 20 seconds. Basically slowing things down a bit and finding a way to work Gasol and Howard into the offense more. The health of Nash will be the key.

Right now though I have to believe that Mike D. is smart enough to work with the talent he has especially after his own failure in New York along with what happened here with Brown.
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Re: a little perspective on the jimmy vs. phil, magic , fans

Postby ElginTheGreat on Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:01 pm

gcclaker wrote:
ElginTheGreat wrote:
gcclaker wrote:
ElginTheGreat wrote:Personally, I do not want to see MDA get booed or hear the We Want Phil chants when he takes the court even though some of that is probably inevitable. Time to look toward the future with the current coach and players.

If those instances were to happen, then it is a sad statement and lack of class on the part of the Laker fanbase.

I hope you are right. But I think the way this was handled along with experts continuing to fan the flames is really setting MDA up for a fall especially if we get off to a slow start in his offense.

It's unfortunate but true. Not fair? Or course it isn't. It's pathetic actually...

I remember a story of Pat Riley gathering the troops in 1987 after an opening game loss to Houston with questions running amock about an aging squad. He told them the cavalry isn't coming and all they had was themselves. Not saying they equate but there are parallels... It's time for this current crew to block out the "peripheral enemies" and just play... It's about the boys and what happens in between that 94 x 50 chunk of hardwood.

D'Antoni wasn't my first choice or second for the matter but I am NOT about to as a fan to wallow in pity and misery about the Jackson fiasco. I've been on a slow burn how the new coach is portrayed. You figure D'Antoni is intelligent enough for some to formulate a scheme to FIT the personnel on hand. F it! Let's go!



Exactly.
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