LQOTD: Is Kobe MVP Material?

LQOTD: Is Kobe MVP Material?

Postby trodgers on Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:27 am

Today's Lakers Question of the Day: Is Kobe having an MVP-caliber season?

Kobe's 2012-13 Season
30.2 PPG
4.9 APG
5.3 RPG
47.8% FGs
37.9% 3pt
85.5% FT
1.4 Stl
PER 25.5

Currently leading the NBA in minutes and points. That said, his team is currently on the outside of the playoff picture, looking in. If you think the answer is "not with this team's record," then what record/seed would LA need to make him MVP if Kobe kept pace?

Thanks, Chillbongo, for the question!
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Re: LQOTD: Is Kobe MVP Material?

Postby Ar[C]heZ!A on Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:40 am

The numbers are MVP caliber, that's for sure. But, to be a strong MVP candidate a player needs his team to be top 3 in conference. And in Kobe's case he will be a candidate but I don't think they will give it to him with this team(Nash, Howard). They will also say the team started winning with the return of the Nash, so it's hard. Maybe if he misses some games and everbody sees his importance to this team it could happen...
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Re: LQOTD: Is Kobe MVP Material?

Postby John3:16 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:12 am

Yes.

However, with the way the voters put emphasis on "best player on best team", the Lakers would have to finish with a top 3 record, at least in the west. Not gonna happen.

He is having a great year though. Scary to think, his scoring average could go up a few points with Nash back.
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Re: LQOTD: Is Kobe MVP Material?

Postby JGC on Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:20 am

No, not an MVP season. Unfortunately, with this roster, we really should be a 2 seed at worst. So anything less than a 2 seed would probably automatically disqualify Kobe from the MVP race.

Even then, as nice as those numbers are, they're basically Kevin Durant's numbers (lite). So if they finish the season as the 1 and 2 seed (with OKC being #1), then wouldn't one automatically have to give it to Kevin Durant?

KD is posting fewer points (-2.1) and assists (-0.7)... but has more rebounds, better FG percentage, better 3pt percentage, better FT percentage, better STLs, better PER, and more minutes than Kobe and the Thunder have a better record with arguably a team that got WORSE in the offseason while we supposedly got better.

Durant's 2012-13 Season
39.5 MPG
28.1 PPG
4.2 APG
8.4 RPG
52.1% FGs
43.0% 3pt
90.0% FT
1.5 STL
28.2 PER
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Re: LQOTD: Is Kobe MVP Material?

Postby wcsoldier81 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:27 am

I don't even think he would be considered as the MVP favorite by the medias if our record was like 24-5 right now ... the " Lakers are dominating because of Nash and D12" talk would be all over the place .
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Re: LQOTD: Is Kobe MVP Material?

Postby Texas Lakers Fan on Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:46 am

JGC wrote:No, not an MVP season. Unfortunately, with this roster, we really should be a 2 seed at worst. So anything less than a 2 seed would probably automatically disqualify Kobe from the MVP race.

Even then, as nice as those numbers are, they're basically Kevin Durant's numbers (lite). So if they finish the season as the 1 and 2 seed (with OKC being #1), then wouldn't one automatically have to give it to Kevin Durant?

KD is posting fewer points (-2.1) and assists (-0.7)... but has more rebounds, better FG percentage, better 3pt percentage, better FT percentage, better STLs, better PER, and more minutes than Kobe and the Thunder have a better record with arguably a team that got WORSE in the offseason while we supposedly got better.

Durant's 2012-13 Season
39.5 MPG
28.1 PPG
4.2 APG
8.4 RPG
52.1% FGs
43.0% 3pt
90.0% FT
1.5 STL
28.2 PER

:man10:

It's amazing the lengths this dude goes to hate on Kobe.

Kobe is averaging more points and assists. Durant should be averaging a better FG percentage because he's taller and bigger and the same goes rebounds.

The Lakers may be a game under 500, but it ain't Kobe's fault. Supporting has been very inconsistent.
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Re: LQOTD: Is Kobe MVP Material?

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:50 am

We've been through this before..... no one will win an MVP on a team that isn't near or at the top of the league..... that's how it works these days. Add in the fact that Kobe isn't the face of the league that they want to promote and you won't get the NBA Partners (sports writers) to vote for him.

I stopped caring about this award years ago...... when you have 2 of the top 5 scorers of all time.... two of the top 10 players of all time with only one MVP each it shows the real value of the award IMHO.....
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Re: LQOTD: Is Kobe MVP Material?

Postby LooN3y on Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:51 am

hes been since 04.
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Re: LQOTD: Is Kobe MVP Material?

Postby JGC on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:33 am

Texas Lakers Fan wrote:
JGC wrote:No, not an MVP season. Unfortunately, with this roster, we really should be a 2 seed at worst. So anything less than a 2 seed would probably automatically disqualify Kobe from the MVP race.

Even then, as nice as those numbers are, they're basically Kevin Durant's numbers (lite). So if they finish the season as the 1 and 2 seed (with OKC being #1), then wouldn't one automatically have to give it to Kevin Durant?

KD is posting fewer points (-2.1) and assists (-0.7)... but has more rebounds, better FG percentage, better 3pt percentage, better FT percentage, better STLs, better PER, and more minutes than Kobe and the Thunder have a better record with arguably a team that got WORSE in the offseason while we supposedly got better.

Durant's 2012-13 Season
39.5 MPG
28.1 PPG
4.2 APG
8.4 RPG
52.1% FGs
43.0% 3pt
90.0% FT
1.5 STL
28.2 PER

:man10:

It's amazing the lengths this dude goes to hate on Kobe.

Kobe is averaging more points and assists. Durant should be averaging a better FG percentage because he's taller and bigger and the same goes rebounds.

The Lakers may be a game under 500, but it ain't Kobe's fault. Supporting has been very inconsistent.


Well, to use your logic, then Kobe should be getting more assists because he's a guard and handles the ball more. So let's take out FG percentage, assists, and rebounds if you want. Kobe wins in points and everything else Durant has the slight edge whether it is PER, minutes, 3pt shooting, FT shooting, steals, what have you.

Are you mistaking MVP for Scoring Title by chance?

Despite the fact Durant wins out in nearly every statistical category, let's just say they are close enough that their numbers are comparable and so it is a wash. Wouldn't it then go to Durant because his team has a much better record?

What is the justification for Kobe getting it? That hey, Kobe should get it because even though he has slightly worse numbers they are basically the same oh and it's not Kobe's fault his team is below .500 and if it wasn't for his garbage D-league teammates he would have a similar record so that's why you should give it to Kobe over the guy who has slightly better numbers and a much better team record? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

And stop with the "Kobe haters" type comments. It isn't necessary. I don't hate Kobe just like you are not permanently attached to his scrotum.
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Re: LQOTD: Is Kobe MVP Material?

Postby revgen on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:39 am

He is.

Team isn't.
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Re: LQOTD: Is Kobe MVP Material?

Postby LooN3y on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:42 am

JGC wrote:
Texas Lakers Fan wrote:
JGC wrote:No, not an MVP season. Unfortunately, with this roster, we really should be a 2 seed at worst. So anything less than a 2 seed would probably automatically disqualify Kobe from the MVP race.

Even then, as nice as those numbers are, they're basically Kevin Durant's numbers (lite). So if they finish the season as the 1 and 2 seed (with OKC being #1), then wouldn't one automatically have to give it to Kevin Durant?

KD is posting fewer points (-2.1) and assists (-0.7)... but has more rebounds, better FG percentage, better 3pt percentage, better FT percentage, better STLs, better PER, and more minutes than Kobe and the Thunder have a better record with arguably a team that got WORSE in the offseason while we supposedly got better.

Durant's 2012-13 Season
39.5 MPG
28.1 PPG
4.2 APG
8.4 RPG
52.1% FGs
43.0% 3pt
90.0% FT
1.5 STL
28.2 PER

:man10:

It's amazing the lengths this dude goes to hate on Kobe.

Kobe is averaging more points and assists. Durant should be averaging a better FG percentage because he's taller and bigger and the same goes rebounds.

The Lakers may be a game under 500, but it ain't Kobe's fault. Supporting has been very inconsistent.


Well, to use your logic, then Kobe should be getting more assists because he's a guard and handles the ball more. So let's take out FG percentage, assists, and rebounds if you want. Kobe wins in points and everything else Durant has the slight edge whether it is PER, minutes, 3pt shooting, FT shooting, steals, what have you.

Are you mistaking MVP for Scoring Title by chance?

Despite the fact Durant wins out in nearly every statistical category, let's just say they are close enough that their numbers are comparable and so it is a wash. Wouldn't it then go to Durant because his team has a much better record?

What is the justification for Kobe getting it? That hey, Kobe should get it because even though he has slightly worse numbers they are basically the same oh and it's not Kobe's fault his team is below .500 and if it wasn't for his garbage D-league teammates he would have a similar record so that's why you should give it to Kobe over the guy who has slightly better numbers and a much better team record? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

And stop with the "Kobe haters" type comments. It isn't necessary. I don't hate Kobe just like you are not permanently attached to his scrotum.



of course, because of the record he doesnt get it, but it doesnt mean he isnt putting up MVP numbers, and of course he always had.


its just a shame that he has only 1. kobe deserves it because hes a phenomenal player, did lebron deserve it all of them? just because he put up those assist numbers? we knew he wasnt clutch, the years kobe won the finals in 09, 10. he deserved finals mvp, especially in 2010 when he hit all those game winners.

the fact that he didnt get it that year is beyond me. but i much rather have kobe win the finals mvp, than the regular mvp

although it looks slim, i stll have hope :jam2:
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Re: LQOTD: Is Kobe MVP Material?

Postby dj vitus on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:55 am

No, not even close. LeBron is shooting better and averages more rebounds and assists. Plus, Miami has a great record. As long as that keeps happening, Kobe will never win.

Lakers need to have a considerably better record than Miami (maybe 5 or 7 more wins?) in order for Kobe and his numbers to have a realistic chance. 20-6 vs 14-15 right now? Yeah, that's never happening. :man5:
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Re: LQOTD: Is Kobe MVP Material?

Postby TIME on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:04 am

trodgers wrote:Today's Lakers Question of the Day: Is Kobe having an MVP-caliber season?


Since this is what you actually asked then the answer is an unreserved YES!

If you had asked will he win it then it would be an unqualified NO!
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Re: LQOTD: Is Kobe MVP Material?

Postby Big Mamma Jamma on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:04 am

JGC wrote:No, not an MVP season. Unfortunately, with this roster, we really should be a 2 seed at worst. So anything less than a 2 seed would probably automatically disqualify Kobe from the MVP race.

Even then, as nice as those numbers are, they're basically Kevin Durant's numbers (lite). So if they finish the season as the 1 and 2 seed (with OKC being #1), then wouldn't one automatically have to give it to Kevin Durant?

KD is posting fewer points (-2.1) and assists (-0.7)... but has more rebounds, better FG percentage, better 3pt percentage, better FT percentage, better STLs, better PER, and more minutes than Kobe and the Thunder have a better record with arguably a team that got WORSE in the offseason while we supposedly got better.

Durant's 2012-13 Season
39.5 MPG
28.1 PPG
4.2 APG
8.4 RPG
52.1% FGs
43.0% 3pt
90.0% FT
1.5 STL
28.2 PER


I disagree. I think he is having a season worthy of an MVP but will not win it because of his team's record. Also, if the media was smart (which we know they aren't) they would take into account all of the changes that have occurred for the Lakers. If say the Lakers went on a huge winning streak and Kobe put up those kind of numbers he will at least be in the conversation.

As for the original question posed by trodgers: is Kobe MVP material? Absolutely, and always has been!
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Re: LQOTD: Is Kobe MVP Material?

Postby JGC on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:09 am

^ How can you have a season worth of an MVP when you're a sub .500 team?

Team record has always factored in to MVP. Can't just remove that element and redefine MVP because ya want to!

I mean if you want to go STRICTLY by the question, it is whether Kobe is having the type of season that an MVP candidate typically has. And he isn't because of team record which is highly factored in. In fact it would be atypical for him to win with a sub .500 record.

So, the answer is still no.

We HAVE to play better and get a ton more wins for him to be considered.
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Re: LQOTD: Is Kobe MVP Material?

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:14 am

JGC wrote:^ How can you have a season worth of an MVP when you're a sub .500 team?

Team record has always factored in to MVP. Can't just remove that element and redefine MVP because ya want to!

I mean if you want to go STRICTLY by the question, it is whether Kobe is having the type of season that an MVP candidate typically has. And he isn't because of team record which is highly factored in. In fact it would be atypical for him to win with a sub .500 record.

So, the answer is still no.

We HAVE to play better and get a ton more wins for him to be considered.



Using this theory explain the fact that Kobe and Shaq have only one each then....... How many sub-.500 teams have they played on?

This award has become a way to market the new hot player IMO and has little to do with "Most Valuable".
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Re: LQOTD: Is Kobe MVP Material?

Postby dj vitus on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:17 am

JGC wrote:^ How can you have a season worth of an MVP when you're a sub .500 team?

Team record has always factored in to MVP. Can't just remove that element and redefine MVP because ya want to!

Well if it's the MLB then you can remove that element. :man11: As you can see, I'm still pissed that Mike Piazza lost the MVP that one year ('95 I think). What a shame. Lol.
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Re: LQOTD: Is Kobe MVP Material?

Postby John3:16 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:20 am

JGC wrote:^ How can you have a season worth of an MVP when you're a sub .500 team?

Team record has always factored in to MVP. Can't just remove that element and redefine MVP because ya want to!


1981 - Moses Malone - MVP. Rockets finished 40 - 42.

The "rules" for MVP changed to "best player on best team" but it used to be best player, period. When you look back at Kareem, Magic, Bird, Jordan, you think of MVP as best player. I think people still look at it that way, but they shouldn't. When Kobe averages 35 and doesn't win MVP something is wrong.
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Re: LQOTD: Is Kobe MVP Material?

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:24 am

John3:16 wrote:
JGC wrote:^ How can you have a season worth of an MVP when you're a sub .500 team?

Team record has always factored in to MVP. Can't just remove that element and redefine MVP because ya want to!


1981 - Moses Malone - MVP. Rockets finished 40 - 42.

The "rules" for MVP changed to "best player on best team" but it used to be best player, period. When you look back at Kareem, Magic, Bird, Jordan, you think of MVP as best player. I think people still look at it that way, but they shouldn't. When Kobe averages 35 and doesn't win MVP something is wrong.


I remember that one well.... Most people thought Kareem should have won it again but it went to Moses mainly because he was dominant on a team riddled with injuries..... he basically carried that team to 20 wins they would have otherwise not had.....
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Re: LQOTD: Is Kobe MVP Material?

Postby v1n5anity on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:27 am

No. You must play at least mediocre defense to be considered. On top of that, LeBron and Durant are having better seasons with a much better record.
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Re: LQOTD: Is Kobe MVP Material?

Postby 432J on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:32 am

the NBA MVP award is so messed up in terms of how they define the winner

it's called the "most VALUABLE player" award for a reason. so let's make a comparison. is a player who averages 28 and 12 on a team that's 67-15 more valuable to his team than a player who averages 32+10 on a team that's 42-40. my response, absolutely not. where would that 42-40 team be without that 32+10 player? more than likely, they'd have around 25-30 wins instead of 42 whereas the 67-15 team would still be in the top 3 if you took away the 28+12 player. ASSUMING he is not the ONLY star caliber player on his team

this is why i have discounted the NBA mvp award ever since nash won it in 06 when it clearly should have been kobe. do we even want to think about where those 05-07 lakers teams would have finished without kobe? :hurl: the suns would have still been a playoff team without nash while the lakers would have finished in the bottom 3.

we all know lebron is going to win it again anyways
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Re: LQOTD: Is Kobe MVP Material?

Postby JGC on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:48 am

Rooscooter wrote:
JGC wrote:^ How can you have a season worth of an MVP when you're a sub .500 team?

Team record has always factored in to MVP. Can't just remove that element and redefine MVP because ya want to!

I mean if you want to go STRICTLY by the question, it is whether Kobe is having the type of season that an MVP candidate typically has. And he isn't because of team record which is highly factored in. In fact it would be atypical for him to win with a sub .500 record.

So, the answer is still no.

We HAVE to play better and get a ton more wins for him to be considered.



Using this theory explain the fact that Kobe and Shaq have only one each then....... How many sub-.500 teams have they played on?

This award has become a way to market the new hot player IMO and has little to do with "Most Valuable".


Yeah, I disagree. If that was the case, then you'd see players without great statistical seasons winning it. But you don't see that. And I'd hate to think that Kobe wasn't the most valuable when he got the award either. Because he certainly was.

It's always been a combination of factors. Individual season and team record in the regular season. Keep in mind, that even though Shaq and Kobe didn't win more than 1 they were in the running in many or all of them.

As for why they didn't actually win them, well, there were other players who were also MVP caliber players like Allen Iverson and Tim Duncan and they put up comparable or better stats and had comparable or better records.
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Re: LQOTD: Is Kobe MVP Material?

Postby JGC on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:51 am

John3:16 wrote:
JGC wrote:^ How can you have a season worth of an MVP when you're a sub .500 team?

Team record has always factored in to MVP. Can't just remove that element and redefine MVP because ya want to!


1981 - Moses Malone - MVP. Rockets finished 40 - 42.

The "rules" for MVP changed to "best player on best team" but it used to be best player, period. When you look back at Kareem, Magic, Bird, Jordan, you think of MVP as best player. I think people still look at it that way, but they shouldn't. When Kobe averages 35 and doesn't win MVP something is wrong.


Don't get me wrong. I have already gone on record and said team record is factored in TOO much in my opinion. If you average 75 PPG on a good percentage and you're on a losing team, I think that is still incredible season worth commending.

But by the current definition of MVP, you have to also have a good record. So, if we're going STRICTLY by the definition of the question which some people wanted to do, then I guess you can't really say Kobe is having an MVP season so far because the team record negates it.

The only way we can really get Kobe in that MVP discussion for this season so far, is by changing the criteria for an MVP as it is today.
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Re: LQOTD: Is Kobe MVP Material?

Postby Juronimo on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:58 am

I don't think he has been MVP caliber at all.

Kobe has reverted back to shooting too much, to the point where it disrupts team rhythm and his defense has been atrocious. I haven't seen any leadership out of him, just him making mistakes, then screaming at a teammate, or taking an ill advised shot, then berating the refs while the other team goes down the court and scores. Honestly his play this season for me has been frustrating to watch. If scoring makes someone an MVP candidate, well he is scoring a lot, but when you take everything else into consideration, he's not in the running for MVP.

Lebron and Durant have had much better years and have been more effective, even if Kobe is scoring more. Plus their teams are better. They're the clear front runners.
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Re: LQOTD: Is Kobe MVP Material?

Postby Forward Three on Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:19 pm

Not really. He's scoring well this year, but also playing a lot of minutes, otherwise he's basically playing a regular Kobe season which we all know isn't usually good enough for an MVP in the media's eyes.
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