LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:42 pm

I was on the the "no" side but am slowly working towards the "yes".

Why "No": I believe Pau is to talented to not use on this team. I love the guys game when he is aggressive and into the game. He passes better than anyone on our team not named Nash. His 2-man game with Dwight at times is oustanding. I am a big fan of Pau and truly believe he could help the team.

Why "Yes": Because of his current attitude. After the trade last year I think he checked out on the team and played that way all last season. This season it seems to be the same thing. His latest quips about starting and not starting really has started to turn me towards the "its time to go" crowd. He seems to refuse to show why we should keep him. Although, I do not agree that he is "incompetent, overpaid and a cancer" as HJ suggest. I just think he never recovered mentally from the trade last year and he probably feels the Lakers are going to ship him anyway.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby Armani on Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:45 pm

Helljumper wrote: Arbitrarily deciding to call him a "Center" instead of "Power Forward" isn't going to do anything to improve his game.


This isn't true. In today's game, things can change a lot by moving a capable player to the center position. KG last season was the prime case in point. His offense and production spiked up when Doc decided to move him to center. There's a difference in about 5 PER and 6 FG% between the two positions. That's significant.

It may not be the same for Pau, but there's a good chance it makes a difference... but he can still be a very good C on the right team. That team isn't the Lakers.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby abeer3 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:41 pm

i preached patience earlier this year because i thought a) they'd be able to figure out ways to use him and b) his value was too low to get anything at that point, and c) the team didn't need any more upheaval/pieces to work in.

his value is still low, but i'm no longer convinced it will go up over time. also, with how clark has jumped in and played ok despite having no time to develop any chemistry with the other starters, i'm less concerned about the continuity.

if you can swing a deal for a couple players who fit well (and expire at the same time as him or before), i think you have to do it.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby cleverdevil on Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:55 am

Unfourtunately the best time to trade Pau would be in the offseason once he becomes a $19,000,000 expiring contract, there is nothing of value the can be brought from him right now to make this team a title contender.

It is in the best interest of the franchise to trade him once his value becomes high as an expiring contract. you only get 1 chance to trade him and it might as well be for the best pieces available which are not anything that you can get right now. Otherwise you keep him around and you let him expire as a part of the 2014 plan.

I understand that it is not the favorite scenario amongst Laker Nation, but it is the correct business decision and much more realistic than moving him for Rudy Gay or some other pipe dream prospect.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby Psychobroker on Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:57 am

^ Unless you find the right team desperate enough to salvage a good season going bad... like the T'Wolves and Love's injury. I hope the Lakers are really trying this angle... Pau... Rubio... Love's hurt and Pau + Roobs will put the fans in their seats (and likely work well), but it's got to happen while Love is hurt, of course. Maybe you do something as ugly as Love + Brandon Roy for Pau... I'm sure the Wolves wouldn't mind dumping his $6m / 2 yr salary.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby dak22 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:00 am

rock0100 wrote:
Dyeggoo wrote:Gasol is still a 18/10 guy, just not on the Lakers, not with this coach and roster.


Oh, and I think I'll have to come up with a new sig.


Any intelligent basketball fan and NBA GM would agree with this. This is the WORST possible fit for Gasol right now. I mean the other day they actually had him chasing around Battier. :man3:

The NBA has changed and Pau should be a center now as he was when we won back to back titles. Hope we ship him out to get some pretty good role players in here. Less should definitely be more in our situation.

That being said, if Pau is traded I will continue to be a fan of his.


Any "Intelligent" fan would realize Pau is done as a starter regardless of where he ends up. The only team who could possibly win with "current" pau is miami and that's mainly due to lebron playing his best ball ever.

Put him at center, his quickness/overall game gets neutralized by big burly centers who push him around.

Put him at the 4 and he's too slow, which doesn't need any explanation.

This while being a lazy, defensive seive who's plays uninspired basketball (see miami attacking him when he was in).

The reality is that the book on pau gasol is out: rough him up and he wilts regardless of position. Then you factor his age,mileage, olympic obligation, etc., and it becomes an ugly picture (see this season's tendonitis and plantar fascitis injuries).

There's nothing wrong with being a fan: after all he was part of a team that won 2 titles. Just don't be fooled not once, but 3 times on who he is currently: a washed star who should be coming off the bench. At some point, you have to accept reality that no system is going to change him because father time is a cruel mistress.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby MC on Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:02 am

dak22 wrote:
rock0100 wrote:
Dyeggoo wrote:Gasol is still a 18/10 guy, just not on the Lakers, not with this coach and roster.


Oh, and I think I'll have to come up with a new sig.


Any intelligent basketball fan and NBA GM would agree with this. This is the WORST possible fit for Gasol right now. I mean the other day they actually had him chasing around Battier. :man3:

The NBA has changed and Pau should be a center now as he was when we won back to back titles. Hope we ship him out to get some pretty good role players in here. Less should definitely be more in our situation.

That being said, if Pau is traded I will continue to be a fan of his.


Any "Intelligent" fan would realize Pau is done as a starter regardless of where he ends up. The only team who could possibly win with "current" pau is miami and that's mainly due to lebron playing his best ball ever.

Put him at center, his quickness/overall game gets neutralized by big burly centers who push him around.

Put him at the 4 and he's too slow, which doesn't need any explanation.

This while being a lazy, defensive seive who's plays uninspired basketball (see miami attacking him when he was in).

The reality is that the book on pau gasol is out: rough him up and he wilts regardless of position. Then you factor his age,mileage, olympic obligation, etc., and it becomes an ugly picture (see this season's tendonitis and plantar fascitis injuries).

There's nothing wrong with being a fan: after all he was part of a team that won 2 titles. Just don't be fooled not once, but 3 times on who he is currently: a washed star who should be coming off the bench. At some point, you have to accept reality that no system is going to change him because father time is a cruel mistress.


Spain national team disagrees with you and had the results from Gasol to back themselves up

All you have is a bunch of guesses trying to suggest something that clearly is not true based on the summer.

He has mentally checked out for THE LAKERS............. and there is a very GOOD reason for that....

The quicker people accept that the better here......

He will get traded, the results for the Lakers will not change much than MDA will get canned.

That is when the legit fixing can hopefully begin.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby MC on Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:11 am

dak22 wrote:
rock0100 wrote:
Dyeggoo wrote:Gasol is still a 18/10 guy, just not on the Lakers, not with this coach and roster.


Oh, and I think I'll have to come up with a new sig.


Any intelligent basketball fan and NBA GM would agree with this. This is the WORST possible fit for Gasol right now. I mean the other day they actually had him chasing around Battier. :man3:

The NBA has changed and Pau should be a center now as he was when we won back to back titles. Hope we ship him out to get some pretty good role players in here. Less should definitely be more in our situation.

That being said, if Pau is traded I will continue to be a fan of his.


Any "Intelligent" fan would realize Pau is done as a starter regardless of where he ends up. The only team who could possibly win with "current" pau is miami and that's mainly due to lebron playing his best ball ever.

Put him at center, his quickness/overall game gets neutralized by big burly centers who push him around.

Put him at the 4 and he's too slow, which doesn't need any explanation.

This while being a lazy, defensive seive who's plays uninspired basketball (see miami attacking him when he was in).

The reality is that the book on pau gasol is out: rough him up and he wilts regardless of position. Then you factor his age,mileage, olympic obligation, etc., and it becomes an ugly picture (see this season's tendonitis and plantar fascitis injuries).

There's nothing wrong with being a fan: after all he was part of a team that won 2 titles. Just don't be fooled not once, but 3 times on who he is currently: a washed star who should be coming off the bench. At some point, you have to accept reality that no system is going to change him because father time is a cruel mistress.


Spain national team disagrees with you and had the results from Gasol to back themselves up

All you have is a bunch of guesses trying to suggest something that clearly is not true based on the summer.

He has mentally checked out for THE LAKERS............. and there is a very GOOD reason for that....

The quicker people accept that the better here......

He will get traded, the results for the Lakers will not change much than MDA will get canned.

That is when the legit fixing can hopefully begin.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby last stand on Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:15 am

The Spain national team excuse. My favorite. The one that ignores that most national teams don't even feature nba quality big men including the usa. Sure if pau is playing mediocre to below average bigs with a majority nba backup filled rosters he'll do fine. Too bad he doesn't
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby MC on Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:53 am

last stand wrote:The Spain national team excuse. My favorite. The one that ignores that most national teams don't even feature nba quality big men including the usa. Sure if pau is playing mediocre to below average bigs with a majority nba backup filled rosters he'll do fine. Too bad he doesn't


Outside of Howard and Bynum who are all these great bigs in today's NBA you are talking about exactly that missed playing this summer and that proves your point? And even calling either of those two great is an extreme stretch compared to legit real 2 way bigs. Both Howard and Bynum have major flaws when compared to historically great centers.

Most of the best bigs in the NBA did play this summer so I think that point you are trying to make is extremely watered down. Sure Howard and Bynum didn't play, but 2 bigs does not make a leagues worth my friend to use that piss poor excuse these days. The style of play in the NBA has become a lot more euro based, especially how the bigs are used.

Quality bigs are down everywhere, I think the NBA comparing to international quality excuse is overrated - that gap has been narrowing for years now, especially when you think of some of the the NBAs superstars over the last 15 years have been international players.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby Doc Brown on Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:36 am

MC wrote:Outside of Howard and Bynum who are all these great bigs in today's NBA you are talking about exactly that missed playing this summer and that proves your point?


You do realize that you don't have to be a superstar to be a big man right? That a lot of bigs in the NBA are defensive stoppers that don't translate to Olympic basketball.

Most of the best bigs in the NBA did play this summer so I think that point you are trying to make is extremely watered down


Chuck Hayes
Javale Mcgee
Kenneth Faried
Omer Asik
Reggie Evans
Nick Collison
Kendrick Perkins
Jermaine O'Neal
Kwame Brown


I mean you could go through 85% of the teams in the NBA and find a guy that would never get to the Olympics, but is a key player in the NBA because they give others problems on the defensive end.

The Olympics is an excuse because you can't just say Pau isn't being used right when he's getting pushed around and bullied by almost everyone in the league.

Landry / Harrington / Millsap the list goes on.

You don't need an Olympic quality, superstar big to take Pau out of the game. Find some athletic 4 that is faster and more agile than Pau and he can't guard him. Find a big bruiser and Pau gets pushed around in the post.

Pau can dominate the Olympics, but then during the season can't post up Andre Miller? Reggie Brewer?

Most of the bigs that have no chance in making it to the Olympics, can still dominate Pau because they simply outwork Pau.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby noobiew on Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:55 am

Yes and absolutely ! My preferences of Pau trade are as follow :-

No 1 : Kevin Love
No 2 : Josh Smith
No 3 : Rudy Gay

Come on Mitch ! wave your magic wand and do it now ! GOD please let this happen !
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby ElginTheGreat on Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:22 am

Doc Brown wrote:
MC wrote:Outside of Howard and Bynum who are all these great bigs in today's NBA you are talking about exactly that missed playing this summer and that proves your point?


You do realize that you don't have to be a superstar to be a big man right? That a lot of bigs in the NBA are defensive stoppers that don't translate to Olympic basketball.

Most of the best bigs in the NBA did play this summer so I think that point you are trying to make is extremely watered down


Chuck Hayes
Javale Mcgee
Kenneth Faried
Omer Asik
Reggie Evans
Nick Collison
Kendrick Perkins
Jermaine O'Neal


I mean you could go through 85% of the teams in the NBA and find a guy that would never get to the Olympics, but is a key player in the NBA because they give others problems on the defensive end.

The Olympics is an excuse because you can't just say Pau isn't being used right when he's getting pushed around and bullied by almost everyone in the league.

Landry / Harrington / Millsap the list goes on.

You don't need an Olympic quality, superstar big to take Pau out of the game. Find some athletic 4 that is faster and more agile than Pau and he can't guard him. Find a big bruiser and Pau gets pushed around in the post.

Pau can dominate the Olympics, but then during the season can't post up Andre Miller? Reggie Brewer?

Most of the bigs that have no chance in making it to the Olympics, can still dominate Pau because they simply outwork Pau.



Doc pretty much said everything I was thinking. I have also slowly joined the move Pau camp. I really want it to work, but he just isn't giving us many reasons on the court or with his attitude off the court to think he will turn it around.

I would love to be wrong, but questions about his toughness and demeanor on the court are nothing new. He overcame them for a while, but we haven't seen much of that over the last few years.

I also think the Olympics play is misleading due to the nature of international hoops and the caliber of big men. But, even if you did throw that angle out, I don't think you can absolve Pau from his own role in that. His attitude is just coming across as very selfish. He is not proving on the court that he deserves a larger role.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby ElginTheGreat on Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:24 am

noobiew wrote:Yes and absolutely ! My preferences of Pau trade are as follow :-

No 1 : Kevin Love
No 2 : Josh Smith
No 3 : Rudy Gay

Come on Mitch ! wave your magic wand and do it now ! GOD please let this happen !



I am warming up to Josh Smith, but his undisciplined play in a shoot first offense like MDA's does scare me a bit. He is definitely the type of athlete that could help us though.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby Congo Cash on Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:47 am

His Olympic performance doesn't translate well in the NBA, I'm afraid...

If he cannot dominate Shane Battier and Joel Anthony, then I think he has no place as a starter...
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby 432J on Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:54 am

Congo Cash wrote:His Olympic performance doesn't translate well in the NBA, I'm afraid...

If he cannot dominate Shane Battier and Joel Anthony, then I think he has no place as a starter...

this

im tired of people using his olympics performance as an excuse and saying he can still impact this team. pau's game has clearly been on the decline since 2011 and it's hit an all time low this season. combine that with a coach that doesn't know how to use him and a system that's not suited for him, and you have the 12-13 version of pau.

he'd do a little better on another team i think but lets think of it this way. he's 32 years old and he's been in the league for 12 years now. not everyone is like kobe and pau is clearly on the decline
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby JGC on Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:51 am

It's time to trade any player for the right deal, so yes, Pau is included in that.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby MC on Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:05 am

I'm pretty sure once Gasol is traded he'll rebound back to an 18/10 player..... once he's given a chance again by someone that wants him.

and when that happens I'll be happy to revisit this topic with you guys. If it doesn't and Pau just disappears on someone elses bench not performing than I'll eat some crow no problem.

I can tell you though..... the 2 coaching hires they've made left me with zero confidence before they ever started the gig for the Lakers that they could even come close to utilizing Pau properly..... and it's not like they've been killer efficient with Howard either.....lets not pretend it's all just Pau and magically this team's a contender simply by subtracting the guy who can't post up guards anymore........ you are fooling yourself big time....... doesn't solve all the turnover issues &long rebounds resulting in easy transition hoops. Only changing this mind blowing basketball philosophy back to reality given the current roster will right this ship and that most likely means the canning of MDA. That won't happen this year so we are that far away from even starting to clean up this mess.

Pau has to go because he's mentally checked out for the Lakers, not because he just can't play anymore


He's had good reason to mentally check out too
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby D.B. Cooper on Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:11 am

Good reason with Phil too?
Cuz he sucked then too.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby Weezy on Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:14 am

What does it matter WHY Pau isn't good here if the conclusion no matter what is that he needs to go? Can he still play? Yes, I think so if given his own team or made the focus in the post on offense I believe he could easily average 18 and 10 again for another franchise. He's not doing that here though, whether it's because he's checked out mentally after being traded and then made the 3rd option, or injuries, or not getting along with the coach or like the coaches offense, whatever it may be. But whether he's checked out here, or he actually has declined and just isn't as good anymore, what does it matter as long as he's not producing for us, especially on defense and effort/rebounding? What will bumping this up if he does well elsewhere do, or prove? That you're smarter than everyone, that you enjoy a good self e-pat on the back? Doesn't mean jack **** what Pau does elsewhere if he's not doing it HERE. Will trading Pau solve all our issues and make us a contender 'magically'? Of course not, but he could land us some much needed pieces, youth, athleticism, perhaps defense and effort guys and maybe even a shooter. So that might not 'magically' make us a contender, but it could make us a contender in the long run.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby Weezy on Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:15 am

D.B. Cooper wrote:Good reason with Phil too?
Cuz he sucked then too.


The excuse with Phil is that Pau was drained after 3 straight Finals and had off court issues. The drained excuse with Phil I still feel was somewhat legit, because he had a good season, just a terrible playoffs. The excuse for Brown and 'Antoni is they don't use him right. If Pau stays next year and 'Antoni goes I wonder what the excuse will be for that coach.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:58 am

ElginTheGreat wrote:
noobiew wrote:Yes and absolutely ! My preferences of Pau trade are as follow :-

No 1 : Kevin Love
No 2 : Josh Smith
No 3 : Rudy Gay

Come on Mitch ! wave your magic wand and do it now ! GOD please let this happen !



I am warming up to Josh Smith, but his undisciplined play in a shoot first offense like MDA's does scare me a bit. He is definitely the type of athlete that could help us though.


Smith is fools gold.... you see the highlights but typically don't see the 15 minutes between them....

His "defense" is shot blocking and that's about it. Undisciplined and poor fundamentals are overcome by his athleticism..... sound familiar? Once there is a "chink" in that armor he has nothing to fall back on.

While he's better than Pau at this point by quite a bit.... you don't win championships with this type of player contributing heavily.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby laakers on Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:19 pm

Why not move him to the bench? Look at the Spurs, Manu is clearly their 3rd best player but he comes off the bench. It's been working for them for years, why not try to move Pau there? There's too much wasted talent to have all of our big 4 playing at the same time. The bench can run the offense through Pau, I think it might work given a chance.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby Doc Brown on Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:24 pm

laakers wrote:Why not move him to the bench? Look at the Spurs, Manu is clearly their 3rd best player but he comes off the bench. It's been working for them for years, why not try to move Pau there? There's too much wasted talent to have all of our big 4 playing at the same time. The bench can run the offense through Pau, I think it might work given a chance.


Because Pau is a star starter.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby ElginTheGreat on Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:03 pm

Rooscooter wrote:
ElginTheGreat wrote:
noobiew wrote:Yes and absolutely ! My preferences of Pau trade are as follow :-

No 1 : Kevin Love
No 2 : Josh Smith
No 3 : Rudy Gay

Come on Mitch ! wave your magic wand and do it now ! GOD please let this happen !



I am warming up to Josh Smith, but his undisciplined play in a shoot first offense like MDA's does scare me a bit. He is definitely the type of athlete that could help us though.


Smith is fools gold.... you see the highlights but typically don't see the 15 minutes between them....

His "defense" is shot blocking and that's about it. Undisciplined and poor fundamentals are overcome by his athleticism..... sound familiar? Once there is a "chink" in that armor he has nothing to fall back on.

While he's better than Pau at this point by quite a bit.... you don't win championships with this type of player contributing heavily.



I don't disagree with anything you have said. I do think he could help us though. I would love Rudy Gay, but I'm not sure the league will let Memphis bail us out again.
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