LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby trodgers on Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:38 am

Straightforward question: is it time for the Lakers to get rid of Gasol?
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby Doc Brown on Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:45 am

Audience = Laker fans
Moe = Pau Gasol

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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby Dyeggoo on Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:54 am

Gasol is still a 18/10 guy, just not on the Lakers, not with this coach and roster.


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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby tigerjeterkobe on Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:59 am

The FO already answered that question, when they traded him last December for Chris Paul. And again when they hired MDA pretty much knowing that Gasol would not fit his system.

MDA has answered that question by benching him several times, jabbing him in the media, and refusing to change his sytem to fit Gasol's supposed strengths.

Clark has answered that question by showing what energy, determination, hustle, and physicality can do for our defense (and thus chances of winning), despite much less talent, length, and experience. We know that Gasol doesn't really fit with Dwight - not defensively against the best (running and athletic) teams in the NBA

And now Gasol has answered the question 3 different times this year:

1. When Kobe said he needed to play harder, be more assertive, and more physical on offense and defense, and that Gasol just needed to "put his big boy pants on" when he plays. MDA agreed. And Gasol then did not play another game after Kobe said that, instead pouting and quitting and chosing to sit a bunch of games on his own initiative. Always an excuse. Just when they needed him most.

2. When the "Nash will make Gasol better" experiment proved to be false. (partly because Nash just can't beat on-ball pressure like he used to) (first Gasol wanted the ball closer to the basket to operate -- now, after the Heat trapped and harrassed Nash to death, Gasol says he should have been given the ball in pick and pop situations at the elbow to allow him to create the offense). :man3:

3. Gasol refusing to be a bench player and do what is best for the team -- back up Dwight, lead the bench mob, and let Clark grow.


It should happen today. He is not hungry and mentally secure and needs a change of scenery. I don't want to see him tomorrow in Toronto, unless he is playing for the Raps.
Last edited by tigerjeterkobe on Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby DarthRekal on Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:06 am

i thought that time was last year?
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby therealdeal on Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:37 am

He's checked out mentally. He's done as a Laker. He's being openly defiant and he's clearly not going to work to make the team better the way that's necessary.

He absolutely needs to go. I don't care if we're going to get better value next season as an expiring, it's crucial right now to get rid of him before his attitude kills our playoff chances.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby raviator on Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:05 am

I agree that Pau doesn't fit this system with Dwight. But here's the thing I worry about if we do trade Pau now: if Dwight decides for whatever reason he doesn't like L.A., we're left with Sacre as our low post threat. Now unless we get someone like Josh Smith in return that might incite Dwight to resign, otherwise the best plan might be to make this work as much as possible and hope for the best and then see what Dwight does. If he resigns then yes Pau has to go, and with an expiring next season, that shouldn't be too hard to do. If not then at least we have an expiring plus a better low post threat than Sacre. Not to say that we still can't use that to get a another low post player plus pieces anyway. But I have a feeling that's what the FO might be thinking right now.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:07 am

May 8th 2011 called , it wants his thread back
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby S.R.05 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:10 am

the sooner the better. he's pretty much useless to us as we're set up now, just hope other teams still see the value he can give them.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby dj vitus on Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:40 am

raviator wrote:I agree that Pau doesn't fit this system with Dwight. But here's the thing I worry about if we do trade Pau now: if Dwight decides for whatever reason he doesn't like L.A., we're left with Sacre as our low post threat.

Well, at least we still have our 2014 pick. :man10:
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby MC on Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:50 am

ya..... not time yet.

Next year when his value is at it's highest as an expiring is the right time to trade him....

But I'm sure this FO will now double panic trying and save face by trying to salvage their pathetic coaching hire and get very little for him based on the pure smell of desperation...
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby MC on Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:54 am

therealdeal wrote:He's checked out mentally. He's done as a Laker. He's being openly defiant and he's clearly not going to work to make the team better the way that's necessary.

He absolutely needs to go. I don't care if we're going to get better value next season as an expiring, it's crucial right now to get rid of him before his attitude kills our playoff chances.


why should he given the total amount of disrespect he's been given since the post Phil era...

2 years of letting coaching off the hook is sad..... once he is gone though what will be the excuses? can't wait to hear them because that will mean we are one step closer to canning this coach.

........

They are better off making him inactive then trading him before he becomes an expiring....... that would be chasing bad money with good money in pure desperation.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:57 am

Yes. I thought he would be moved in the summer. I think I'm going to be wrong. He's going to be shopped, again. At this point, with everything that has been said between Pau and MDA, we don't need this distraction to last the rest of the season.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby Rooscooter on Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:01 am

MC wrote:ya..... not time yet.

Next year when his value is at it's highest as an expiring is the right time to trade him....

:man3: ....... His trade "value" is about 21 million (19 mil salary plus kicker). It will be the same next year to the penny.

We will have to take 21 million back in contracts.... I don't see the players coming back being much different either now or then because there are only a couple teams where this type of trade can work.

why should he given the total amount of disrespect he's been given since the post Phil era...


Chickens and eggs.... are you supposing that he was treated differently before he started playing like crap? If so why? Why would you do that to your second highest paid player?

His "treatment" is a reaction to his play and the value he's not bringing.....
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby MC on Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:33 am

Roos - you have a point with some of that but at the same time the philosophy brought in post Jackson era has never had the thought of trying to use Gasol in an effective manner..... you suggesting it has?

It's not 2K13....when a player feels like he's being overlooked it will have an effect on his overall play..... that's not exactly rocket science and it is not just isolated to Gasol.

This team might lose Howard too based on how this team is operating within the offensive flow....than what? would Howard be a bum than? what about if Gasol plays well after he trade? than what? when will it be the coaches turn to fall on his sword? how many examples of coaching stints do you need to form a pattern on the coach himself?

My gut is that Gasol will get dumped as a tax saving device more than anything significant in return.... maybe a loaner that gives them their luxury tax break. This team is stuck right now and the sharks will be circling soon enough when trade talks heat up.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby Rooscooter on Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:42 am

MC wrote:Roos - you have a point with some of that but at the same time the philosophy brought in post Jackson era has never had the thought of trying to use Gasol in an effective manner..... you suggesting it has?

It's not 2K13....when a player feels like he's being overlooked it will have an effect on his overall play..... that's not exactly rocket science and it is not just isolated to Gasol.

This team might lose Howard too based on how this team is operating within the offensive flow....than what? would Howard be a bum than? what about if Gasol plays well after he trade? than what? when will it be the coaches turn to fall on his sword? how many examples of coaching stints do you need to form a pattern on the coach himself?

My gut is that Gasol will get dumped as a tax saving device more than anything significant in return.... maybe a loaner that gives them their luxury tax break. This team is stuck right now and the sharks will be circling soon enough when trade talks heat up.


Well if the term "treated" is removed we may be on common ground. Pau's role changed.... whether he was consulted isn't known but it changed when Bynum was used as the primary post target. The results weren't all bad as Bynum had a very good year. Pau didn't adjust that well and hasn't adjusted this year.

If you combine that with his physical drop off and his lack of forcefulness at times it has become a problem..... a huge one.

MDA's rigid philosophy isn't going to bend to find a place for Pau..... he's not that good of a coach IMO... I think he would rather have 3 or 4 jump shooters than Pau quite frankly.

As for "dumping him".... I don't see that happening. We will get at least one ugly contract back and a couple young and decent players. No one is going to allow us to dump 21 million without taking back some garbage that will stick with us for a few years IMO.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby Big Mamma Jamma on Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:44 am

In a word: yes.

I think Gasol could still contribute as a backup to D12. However, one doesn't a pay a backup the kind of money Gasol is receiving. Moreover, there are teams hungry for a guy that can legitimately get 18 and 10 as someone mentioned above.

If the Lakers are committed to MDA, then the Lakers brass needs to get the right kind of players to make this thing work. The Lakers need more youth ... fresh legs, etc.

The team currently constituted is not winning the championship this year. I think we all know this because even if they get on a run the Lakers are not better than OKC, the Spurs or the Heat.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby MC on Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:54 am

Roos - I guess really in the end all I'm saying is get rid of Gasol all you want, this team will still have the major tumor that needs cutting out. That tumor is the coach and his philosophy of play. getting rid of Gasol is essentially going to be treating a symptom rather than the root cause of a symptom.

These 2 coaches have been seriously flawed, everyone and their mother knows it........ that is why I will lean towards defending Gasol a bit more........ because it is clear that these two coaches are frauds and it's hard to sit here and just point at their personnel. Outside of Phoenix I guess MDA just can't find his personnel fit as a head coach..... and even than he still couldn't win with a team ideally built to do what he wants. His philosophy got beat by a better one.... a more balanced one year, after year, after year. You would be hard pressed to build a better fit for MDA than what he had with the Suns and the guy still couldn't get over the top vs better coaching with a better philosophy of play when the games really count.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby Big Mamma Jamma on Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:09 pm

MC wrote:Roos - I guess really in the end all I'm saying is get rid of Gasol all you want, this team will still have the major tumor that needs cutting out. That tumor is the coach and his philosophy of play. getting rid of Gasol is essentially going to be treating a symptom rather than the root cause of a symptom.

These 2 coaches have been seriously flawed, everyone and their mother knows it........ that is why I will lean towards defending Gasol a bit more........ because it is clear that these two coaches are frauds and it's hard to sit here and just point at their personnel. Outside of Phoenix I guess MDA just can't find his personnel fit as a head coach..... and even than he still couldn't win with a team ideally built to do what he wants. His philosophy got beat by a better one.... a more balanced one year, after year, after year. You would be hard pressed to build a better fit for MDA than what he had with the Suns and the guy still couldn't get over the top vs better coaching with a better philosophy of play when the games really count.


MC I don't quite agree with your second paragraph. MDA's Phoenix team got robbed against the Spurs. It was so blatant it just infuriated me at the time.

Second, look at the talent level of those Phx teams and then look at the Spurs. The Suns were darn good without the same level of talent as the Spurs.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:39 pm

I would rather not trade him if there was a chance he could get back to some semblance of what he was, but at this point he's dragging the team down. It's funny he's actually sticking up for himself now, but it couldn't have come at a worse time.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby ThizGuy83 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:48 pm

time to move his behind outta here... he wants to act like a lil girl and play like one even after kobe defends him... time to get rid of him...
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby GinoDB on Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:12 pm

were past that,Im now starting to wonder if hes a cancer
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby rock0100 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:22 pm

Dyeggoo wrote:Gasol is still a 18/10 guy, just not on the Lakers, not with this coach and roster.


Oh, and I think I'll have to come up with a new sig.


Any intelligent basketball fan and NBA GM would agree with this. This is the WORST possible fit for Gasol right now. I mean the other day they actually had him chasing around Battier. :man3:

The NBA has changed and Pau should be a center now as he was when we won back to back titles. Hope we ship him out to get some pretty good role players in here. Less should definitely be more in our situation.

That being said, if Pau is traded I will continue to be a fan of his.
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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby lakersyunowin on Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:43 pm

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Re: LQOTD: Time to Move Gasol?

Postby Helljumper on Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:36 pm

He's no longer capable of being an 18/10 player on a good team. Arbitrarily deciding to call him a "Center" instead of "Power Forward" isn't going to do anything to improve his game. He hasn't been mistreated. His troubles aren't solely a result of being misused by the coach. No coach is going to be able to design a system that manages to take full advantage of two ball-dominant guards AND two big men who demand a lot of post touches. Even if Pau were able to return to his 2010 level of play, it wouldn't necessarily help the team. Having to waste possessions by dumping it in to Pau in the post just to accomodate his ego would still be taking the ball out of the hands of our best players and do nothing to solve our defensive woes. If Pau were actually a decent post-player again, then he'd give us another 1-on-1 scoring option to go to. We don't need that. We need players who can play off the ball, cut/get open for Nash, and space the floor for Dwight. The league has changed. We don't need two post-"threats", but we do need some quality athletes/defenders/shooters off the bench.

Pau is an incompetent, overpaid cancer and it's been time to move him for a while.
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