LQOTD: What does +/- tell us?

On Court/Off Court Numbers (per 48 minutes)
Kobe +6.5/-15.3 Net +21.8
MWP +7.8/-11.7 Net +19.5
Gasol +4.3/+0.1 Net +4.2
Nash +4.5/+1.9 Net +2.6
Howard +1.1/+5.9 Net -4.8

-82games.com

Howard sucks for our team and we're gona win now w/o him?

Thats the beauty of stats, they say exactly what they say.

Saw these numbers last week and its really depressing how they illustrate how ineffective/inefficient Dwight is this year.

http://www.82games.com/1213/ROLRTG8.HTM

These are interesting as well. Measures how much a player scores vs the opponent at his position and also scoring =/- while in/out of the game.

phoenixrisingla wrote:Thats the beauty of stats, they say exactly what they say.

Saw these numbers last week and its really depressing how they illustrate how ineffective/inefficient Dwight is this year.

http://www.82games.com/1213/ROLRTG8.HTM

These are interesting as well. Measures how much a player scores vs the opponent at his position and also scoring =/- while in/out of the game.

so I guess we shouldn't be worried if he leaves or not, seeing as how he does nothing for us anyways in terms of winning

khmrP wrote:

phoenixrisingla wrote:Thats the beauty of stats, they say exactly what they say.

Saw these numbers last week and its really depressing how they illustrate how ineffective/inefficient Dwight is this year.

http://www.82games.com/1213/ROLRTG8.HTM

These are interesting as well. Measures how much a player scores vs the opponent at his position and also scoring =/- while in/out of the game.

so I guess we shouldn't be worried if he leaves or not, seeing as how he does nothing for us anyways in terms of winning

Your sarcasm is VERY clever, but yes.

I'm not sure if you noticed, but he IS playing and we're NOT winning.

phoenixrisingla wrote:

khmrP wrote:

phoenixrisingla wrote:Thats the beauty of stats, they say exactly what they say.

Saw these numbers last week and its really depressing how they illustrate how ineffective/inefficient Dwight is this year.

http://www.82games.com/1213/ROLRTG8.HTM

These are interesting as well. Measures how much a player scores vs the opponent at his position and also scoring =/- while in/out of the game.

so I guess we shouldn't be worried if he leaves or not, seeing as how he does nothing for us anyways in terms of winning

Your sarcasm is VERY clever, but yes.

I'm not sure if you noticed, but he IS playing and we're NOT winning.

Kobe is playing and has the highest +/- and we're not winning so what does that tell us? Kevin love avg 26/15 or something last year, you'd think stats like that w/o watching games you would think K.Love is a dominant force with the likes of Shaq, Duncan,etc. until you actually watch the games.

khmrP wrote:

phoenixrisingla wrote:

khmrP wrote:

phoenixrisingla wrote:Thats the beauty of stats, they say exactly what they say.

Saw these numbers last week and its really depressing how they illustrate how ineffective/inefficient Dwight is this year.

http://www.82games.com/1213/ROLRTG8.HTM

These are interesting as well. Measures how much a player scores vs the opponent at his position and also scoring =/- while in/out of the game.

so I guess we shouldn't be worried if he leaves or not, seeing as how he does nothing for us anyways in terms of winning

Your sarcasm is VERY clever, but yes.

I'm not sure if you noticed, but he IS playing and we're NOT winning.

Kobe is playing and has the highest +/- and we're not winning so what does that tell us?

That we have to much "minus" for all of Kobe's "plus" to handle.

This is an INDIVIDUAL stat. If you cant see the distinction between playing well in a loss and playing poorly in a loss then I'm not sure what to say...

I think Kobe could be doing more in terms of leadership, but at least he's playing well and seems like he wants to be here.

what is this, hockey?

it doesn't tell you anything

phoenixrisingla wrote:That we have to much minus to make up for all of Kobe's plus.

This is an INDIVIDUAL stat. If you cant see the distinction between playing well in a loss and playing poorly in a loss then I'm not sure what to say...

I think Kobe could be doing more in terms of leadership, but at least he's playing well and seems like he wants to be here.

Pau has a net + can you explain that to me, seeing as how I dont seem to understand this stat cause eye test I dont suggest that one bit as per your rebuttal here in regards to playing hard and wanting to be here stuff. As far as Howard goes, no fan fare here my friend, trade his arse if doesn't want to be here and we can get a good package for him. I have no player loyalty whatosever

khmrP wrote:

phoenixrisingla wrote:That we have to much minus to make up for all of Kobe's plus.

This is an INDIVIDUAL stat. If you cant see the distinction between playing well in a loss and playing poorly in a loss then I'm not sure what to say...

I think Kobe could be doing more in terms of leadership, but at least he's playing well and seems like he wants to be here.

Pau has a net + can you explain that to me, seeing as how I dont seem to understand this stat cause eye test I dont suggest that one bit as per your rebuttal here in regards to playing hard and wanting to be here stuff.

Are you being serious?

I dont have to explain it to you. That stat is a representation of what actually happened.

You can say its meaningless if you dont like what the numbers say, but this is why we have stats. So we can have a recording of events/outcomes that occurred without the filter of subjective interpretation.

I'm not saying that you can say "leader in +/- is the best player in the league" but to say they are meaningless is equally asinine.

432J wrote:what is this, hockey?

it doesn't tell you anything

Suppose you're right. What's the argument?

phoenixrisingla wrote:

khmrP wrote:

phoenixrisingla wrote:That we have to much minus to make up for all of Kobe's plus.

This is an INDIVIDUAL stat. If you cant see the distinction between playing well in a loss and playing poorly in a loss then I'm not sure what to say...

I think Kobe could be doing more in terms of leadership, but at least he's playing well and seems like he wants to be here.

Pau has a net + can you explain that to me, seeing as how I dont seem to understand this stat cause eye test I dont suggest that one bit as per your rebuttal here in regards to playing hard and wanting to be here stuff.

Are you being serious?

I dont have to explain it to you. That stat is a representation of what actually happened.

You can say its meaningless if you dont like what the numbers say, but this is why we have stats. So we can have a recording of events/outcomes that occurred without the filter of subjective interpretation.

I'm not saying that you can say "leader in +/- is the best player in the league" but to say they are meaningless is equally asinine.

so if stats dont lie, can you honestly say we're better off with Pau than Howard right now?

khmrP wrote:
so if stats dont lie, can you honestly say we're better off with Pau then Howard right now?

This is where it gets tricky, using stats to make bigger statments like that.

In my personal opinion, I think that Pau is a better low post scoring threat than Howard is. However I think that Howard is a better P&R big (although we're not using him that way enough).

I guess if I had to pick I'd go with Pau.

phoenixrisingla wrote:

khmrP wrote:
so if stats dont lie, can you honestly say we're better off with Pau then Howard right now?

This is where it gets tricky, using stats to make bigger statments like that.

In my personal opinion, I think that Pau is a better low post scoring threat than Howard is. However I think that Howard is a better P&R big (although we're not using him that way enough).

I guess if I had to pick I'd go with Pau.

Pau WAS good in the post but we will see how this stat lives up to real world application when Pau is back in the middle w/o Howard soon enough.

khmrP wrote:

phoenixrisingla wrote:

khmrP wrote:
so if stats dont lie, can you honestly say we're better off with Pau then Howard right now?

This is where it gets tricky, using stats to make bigger statments like that.

In my personal opinion, I think that Pau is a better low post scoring threat than Howard is. However I think that Howard is a better P&R big (although we're not using him that way enough).

I guess if I had to pick I'd go with Pau.

Pau WAS good in the post but we will see how this stat lives up to real world application when Pau is back in the middle w/o Howard soon enough.

Fingers crossed. We need something. With these injuries, I'm starting to get that "circling the drain" feeling on this season.

I wouldn't say much unless there's a clear and obvious trend. I think Kobe's and Metta's are very telling because the difference is so massive. But if you were to look at that and assume that we're a better team with Dwight off the floor, I'd say that's silly.

I honestly don't think +/- means anything in a vacuum. It only tells you anything of value when you look at it within the context of other things.

It's as useful as PPG or FG% in a vacuum is. Interesting, but not particularly useful or indicative of much.

So Kobe & MWP playing among the best on our team this year.....and them having the highest +/- doesn't tell us anything?

Pau's +/- stems from his assists & facilitating. Do you guys watch basketball? You know that a player's impact on the court can be made outside of points right?

Who is "you guys"? I didn't make any such claim.

.....The people that said "it doesn't mean anything".

I said it doesn't mean much does that count?

LOL, you are insinuating that it matters at least a little bit....I'll take it.

Deal.

Chillbongo wrote:So Kobe & MWP playing among the best on our team this year.....and them having the highest +/- doesn't tell us anything?

Pau's +/- stems from his assists & facilitating. Do you guys watch basketball? You know that a player's impact on the court can be made outside of points right?

Do you really think Pau has more on-court impact than Nash and Dwight though?

Our defense is non-existent. Whether D12 is on the floor or not. And since he's not the same athletic freak he was before the injury, he hasn't been that effective offensively.