LQOTD: Will Dwight Re-Sign?

Johnnyboy · by **Johnnyboy** on Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:47 pm

abeer3 wrote:
Johnnyboy wrote:Lin,harden,asik,parsons is not a bad team. Don't sleep on Houston

they've been completely healthy all year long and are going to be lucky to sneak into the playoffs. sleeping.

btw, where's that hilarious "don't sleep on houston" thread from last year or the year before? there was some gold in them thar hills.

Last I checked Houston is playing better than the Lakers. They are younger and have more upside. Most of us agree that the Lakers is the best place. But put yourself in the shoes of a 27 year old howard. lin/harden/parsons are only going to get better. Kobe/pau/artest/jamison/nash are not.

Before getting sarcastic, use your head. Doesn't take much to see how unhappy dwight is

khmrP · by **khmrP** on Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:59 pm

LooN3y wrote:
khmrP wrote:
therealdeal wrote:Go ahead and tell me where and why it's better. I've already taken apart that argument. If he leaves, that's his decision obviously, but I've already detailed why leaving makes less sense than staying.

I dont agree with your assesment of Hou, they have youth and the coach will actually play to his strenght, McHale has been know to be a good big mans coach. $20mill isn't exactly a throw away either, its just an extra year he would otherwise not get if he didn't resign here, when people present this argument you guys make it sound like both teams are giving Howard the same amt of years but $20mill less elsewhere that is misleading. Losing 1 year of gurantee contract is a risk but given his ability to even play this quickly after back surgery and his history injury its safe to say he has a very low % chance of having some career ending injury throughout the course of that 4yr contract. Marketing can be done anywhere, with Lin in Hou and Yao past pressence in Hou I can see him being a big marketing tool in the chinese market as well. I know Howard made it known during the summer he didn't want any part of Hou but alot has changed since then in terms of the makeup of that team.

yes, dwight is going to be so big in the chinese market because hes NOT chinese.

I didn't realize Kobe was chinese, pretty dark for chinese guy, last I heard he's pretty big in China :freak2:

khmrP · by **khmrP** on Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:13 am

therealdeal wrote:
khmrP wrote:
therealdeal wrote:Go ahead and tell me where and why it's better. I've already taken apart that argument. If he leaves, that's his decision obviously, but I've already detailed why leaving makes less sense than staying.

I dont agree with your assesment of Hou, they have youth and the coach will actually play to his strenght, McHale has been know to be a good big mans coach. $20mill isn't exactly a throw away either, its just an extra year he would otherwise not get if he didn't resign here, when people present this argument you guys make it sound like both teams are giving Howard the same amt of years but $20mill less elsewhere that is misleading. Losing 1 year of gurantee contract is a risk but given his ability to even play this quickly after back surgery and his history injury its safe to say he has a very low % chance of having some career ending injury throughout the course of that 4yr contract. Marketing can be done anywhere, with Lin in Hou and Yao past pressence in Hou I can see him being a big marketing tool in the chinese market as well. I know Howard made it known during the summer he didn't want any part of Hou but alot has changed since then in terms of the makeup of that team.

1. You say 20 million isn't a throw away number, then you throw it away. "well he can just sign another contract after his 4th, no big deal". Um yes, there's no guarantees in life and if you have an opportunity to get 20 million dollars ever, that's almost impossible to turn down.

2. You really want to compare Yao and Lin's popularity to Howard? You realize the difference of course. Howard is not nearly as marketable as Lin or Yao because he's not Asian, or more specifically of Chinese heritage. That's where 90% of the popularity comes for either of those players.

3. You can market anywhere... sure... but you cannot market anywhere as well as you can in LA or in New York. Easy. Anyone of fame would make twice as much in LA getting gigs and endorsements as they would in Houston. WIthout looking at the numbers tell me how much you think Howard can make in a commercial in Houston vs. a commercial in LA? Or how many shoes he'll see in LA vs Houston. You really think it's comparable? It's not even close. Not by a long shot.

Not to mention the vast fan base of LA spreads far across the world, much farther than the Houston Rockets can ever hope to achieve within Howard's career.

Howard stands to lose a TON of money by leaving. There's no financial situation he could find himself better than unless he somehow could find his way maybe the Knicks or Nets.

how many national commericals have you seen out of Kobe vs. Durant? So no it doesn't require you to be on a big market to get you market across the nation. I wasn't using Lin/Yao and processing the chinese race card with Howard, its the fact that most chinese in China grew as wider audience and general fan of bball because of Yao and the ROCKETS. Now with Lin it will continue and Howard could easily piggy back that chinese influence that Hou has, in fact there was big inflex of chinese investment with Hou once Lin signed. So no Howard isnt chinese but neither is Kobe and he's the biggest star in China.

Phil XI · by **Phil XI** on Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:29 am

I've already outlined why no for Dallas and most likely no for Atlanta, on page 3. Here's the other competitor:
HOU will have only about 16 mil avail total for Dwight plus FA's.
Contracts in place for 9 players = 43 mil (Harden, Asik, Lin, Patterson, Morris, White, Jones, Montiejunas and they won't renounce Parsons).
Say the renounce everyone else and their MLE, and they make the playoffs this year so their 1st goes to ATL.

After roster holds with a guess-cap of 60 (for easy math), they'll have 16 mil for Dwight. Would he take it?
Tax benefits in TX? Young up-n-coming team?

Dwight/Harden/Lin/Parsons/Asik/youngsters/3 vet mins.
That is pretty attractive compared to Kobe, Nash, Pau, Peace, Hill, Meeks, Blake, 1 mini mle.

But Dwight would have to bolt another city and take a lesser payday both short and long term. While HOU is more an option, I still think he stays and takes the biggest payday while avoiding another loyalty punch. LA is known for building around a star and then winning titles. No other team can boast that.

Doc Brown · by **Doc Brown** on Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:03 am

^^^^ Don't forget D12 was reported to be adamantly against the Rockets when they were in trade talks for him.

JGC · by **JGC** on Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:12 am

And one other thing to remember. The initial hesitation in Dwight wanting to come here was the conversation he had with Kobe about how Kobe wanted him to be the Lakers' Tyson Chandler. That is, play defense and let everyone else do the scoring.

Being a featured part of a team's offensive attack seems like it is important to Dwight. Regardless of whether he is 100% or not, clearly, he doesn't seem pleased with his role on offense. So wherever he ends up going, he will want to be featured in the offense.

Has he played well enough to be featured? Arguably not. But that's beside the point.

therealdeal · by **therealdeal** on Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:47 am

khmrP wrote:how many national commericals have you seen out of Kobe vs. Durant?

And who is the bigger star? Which name is a household name even outside of basketball?

khmrP wrote: So no it doesn't require you to be on a big market to get you market across the nation. I wasn't using Lin/Yao and processing the chinese race card with Howard, its the fact that most chinese in China grew as wider audience and general fan of bball because of Yao and the ROCKETS.

No, it was because of Yao, the Rockets were simply the beneficiary. I don't have the numbers, but I'll put money down that when Lin was in New York his jersey numbers sky rocketed among the Asian demographic both within the United States and without.

It had NOTHING to do with Houston.

khmrP wrote:Now with Lin it will continue and Howard could easily piggy back that chinese influence that Hou has, in fact there was big inflex of chinese investment with Hou once Lin signed.

So piggy backing the popularity of a vastly inferior basketball player is going to equal or excel the opportunities to make money in LA as the bona-fide star of the Los Angeles Lakers?

khmrP wrote:So no Howard isnt chinese but neither is Kobe and he's the biggest star in China.

And of course, you nailed my argument on the head. If Houston is the Chinese market, then why is Kobe Bryant the number one seller over there from American basketball players? Why is that Kobe is known world wide and not Jeremy Lin? Why is that Kobe Bryant competes with Yao Ming in Yao's own country as far as sales go? You're vastly under estimating the LA market.

And that's not to say that Howard couldn't make money in Houston. Of course he could, it'd just be a lot less than what he'd make in LA.

khmrP · by **khmrP** on Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:58 am

When howard was against going to hou that was an entirely different team then it is now and considering all that's happened so far, I'd say their situation has gotten a lot better while ours is full of drama and failures.

therealdeal · by **therealdeal** on Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:03 am

khmrP wrote:When howard was against going to hou that was an entirely different team then it is now and considering all that's happened so far, I'd say their situation has gotten a lot better while ours is full of drama and failures.

It's been less than half a season of which we've been healthy for what? 8 games? There's plenty of time for those failures to turn around.

Do you honestly think at the end of the day that Houston is better than us? Do you honestly think that if both teams are at their healthiest, Houston is better than we are?

Of course the answer is no, so do you really think Howard would leave because we've had bad luck in the first half of the season?

Not to mention, the team might be in turmoil at the moment in comparison to most of the league, but that's part of the point. Despite everything we're a .500 team and we have only up to go. Look at teams like Golden State, Houston, and Atlanta. They've been playing over their heads to get where they are and we're still within striking distance of them. Look at teams like Boston and Utah. They've been playing about as well as they can and they're at .500 without half of the injuries we've faced. Obviously things need to change and they need to change fast, but our situation isn't the end of the world. The team doesn't think so and we shouldn't either.

And none of this changes the financial situation anyway.

Lakerman JSJ · by **Lakerman JSJ** on Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:16 am

therealdeal wrote:You really want to compare Yao and Lin's popularity to Howard? You realize the difference of course. Howard is not nearly as marketable as Lin or Yao because he's not Asian, or more specifically of Chinese heritage.

he's not Asian

Doc Brown · by **Doc Brown** on Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:23 am

khmrP wrote:When howard was against going to hou that was an entirely different team then it is now and considering all that's happened so far, I'd say their situation has gotten a lot better while ours is full of drama and failures.

So are you willing to bet that the Rockets win a ring before the Lakers do?

therealdeal · by **therealdeal** on Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:25 am

Lakerman JSJ wrote:
therealdeal wrote:You really want to compare Yao and Lin's popularity to Howard? You realize the difference of course. Howard is not nearly as marketable as Lin or Yao because he's not Asian, or more specifically of Chinese heritage.

he's not Asian

he's not Asian

he's not Asian

Big Mamma Jamma · by **Big Mamma Jamma** on Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:29 am

therealdeal wrote:
khmrP wrote:When howard was against going to hou that was an entirely different team then it is now and considering all that's happened so far, I'd say their situation has gotten a lot better while ours is full of drama and failures.

It's been less than half a season of which we've been healthy for what? 8 games? There's plenty of time for those failures to turn around.

Do you honestly think at the end of the day that Houston is better than us? Do you honestly think that if both teams are at their healthiest, Houston is better than we are?

Of course the answer is no, so do you really think Howard would leave because we've had bad luck in the first half of the season?

Not to mention, the team might be in turmoil at the moment in comparison to most of the league, but that's part of the point. Despite everything we're a .500 team and we have only up to go. Look at teams like Golden State, Houston, and Atlanta. They've been playing over their heads to get where they are and we're still within striking distance of them. Look at teams like Boston and Utah. They've been playing about as well as they can and they're at .500 without half of the injuries we've faced. Obviously things need to change and they need to change fast, but our situation isn't the end of the world. The team doesn't think so and we shouldn't either.

And none of this changes the financial situation anyway.

I agree with TRD on every point he makes.

Howard is not going to leave an extra year of a max deal contract on the table. You guys talk about $20MM like it is Monopoly money. For a guy coming off of a major surgery do you really think Howard will turn down guaranteed money? That's like asking Luke Walton does he want 3 years or 5 years.

I will say this now I firmly believe the Lakers will make moves by the deadline not only to shed some dead weight but to also get younger. I really think Pau is gone ... as currently constituted the Lakers are not winning the championship this year. It doesn't mean I'm not going to root for them to but there is a athleticism gap between the upper echelon teams and the Lakers that must be resolved to catapult the Lakers to contender status.

Now, if the Lakers make some trades and get some younger legs I think they can make some noise in the playoffs. Look at the Spurs they have a good combo of youth and vets. However, even if the Lakers don't make the playoffs, that will not matter to Dwight. Sure he'll be bummed but he is not going to make a huge financial decision based on how the team performed this year. The Lakers have a history of always being a contender and making the right moves. Dwight and his team must know this.

revgen · by **revgen** on Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:35 am

I don't see D12 going to Houston. Besides Harden, the team doesn't have a whole lot of playoff experience.

Lakerman JSJ · by **Lakerman JSJ** on Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:37 am

Doc Brown wrote:
khmrP wrote:When howard was against going to hou that was an entirely different team then it is now and considering all that's happened so far, I'd say their situation has gotten a lot better while ours is full of drama and failures.

So are you willing to bet that the Rockets win a ring before the Lakers do?

"Full of drama and failures"...after 2 months of the season...after about 2 weeks worth of a healthy roster...

khmrP · by **khmrP** on Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:26 am

Lakerman JSJ wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:
khmrP wrote:When howard was against going to hou that was an entirely different team then it is now and considering all that's happened so far, I'd say their situation has gotten a lot better while ours is full of drama and failures.

So are you willing to bet that the Rockets win a ring before the Lakers do?

"Full of drama and failures"...after 2 months of the season...after about 2 weeks worth of a healthy roster...

so 1 fired coach, a coach that doesn't get hired and the coach that did get hired seems to pretty much not be working thus far, still below .500, those aren't drama/failures?

khmrP · by **khmrP** on Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:28 am

Doc Brown wrote:
khmrP wrote:When howard was against going to hou that was an entirely different team then it is now and considering all that's happened so far, I'd say their situation has gotten a lot better while ours is full of drama and failures.

So are you willing to bet that the Rockets win a ring before the Lakers do?

bet me what exactly, I dont even know who you are or where you're from......rings, lets worry bout the playoffs for now before we worry bout rings :man10:

Lakerman JSJ · by **Lakerman JSJ** on Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:30 am

khmrP wrote:so 1 fired coach, a coach that doesn't get hired and the coach that did get hired seems to pretty much not be working thus far, still below .500, those aren't drama/failures?

Do you really not see progress being made since we got most of our roster back on the floor together? They show flashes of the elite play they're capable of. Can't really expect consistent greatness from the start with a new system & a lot of new key players on the team. It's a process.

Doc Brown · by **Doc Brown** on Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:32 am

khmrP wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:
khmrP wrote:When howard was against going to hou that was an entirely different team then it is now and considering all that's happened so far, I'd say their situation has gotten a lot better while ours is full of drama and failures.

So are you willing to bet that the Rockets win a ring before the Lakers do?

bet me what exactly, I dont even know who you are or where you're from......rings, lets worry bout the playoffs for now before we worry bout rings

It wasn't so much a bet, but rather a question. If you had to put money down right now, who wins the championship first, Lakers or the Rockets.

And you are thinking way to shortsighted. I'm not talking about right now only, in the next 3-4 years, who has a better chance at winning it all?

khmrP · by **khmrP** on Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:38 am

Doc Brown wrote:
khmrP wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:
khmrP wrote:When howard was against going to hou that was an entirely different team then it is now and considering all that's happened so far, I'd say their situation has gotten a lot better while ours is full of drama and failures.

So are you willing to bet that the Rockets win a ring before the Lakers do?

bet me what exactly, I dont even know who you are or where you're from......rings, lets worry bout the playoffs for now before we worry bout rings

It wasn't so much a bet, but rather a question. If you had to put money down right now, who wins the championship first, Lakers or the Rockets.

And you are thinking way to shortsighted. I'm not talking about right now only, in the next 3-4 years, who has a better chance at winning it all?

of course if you base on history its our team but I'm looking at current situations, if they dont win within Kobe time frame as a player then who knows what's gona happen. Hou still has enough money for another big name FA next year while we have to hope and prey some dumbarse GM out there gets suckered in by Mitch magical wand and gives us something of value for Pau. But in regards to topic everyone here only likes to present the negative sides of why the other team wont be able to persuade Howard into going there, I'm just pointing out some of their positives. As for the "loyalty" card that someone posted, come on now we talking bout Howard, a guy who tweets bout loyalty and demands a trade a couple of weeks later :man10:

Doc Brown · by **Doc Brown** on Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:41 am

So if you had to put money down right now, you would take the Rockets over Lakers?

Lakerman JSJ · by **Lakerman JSJ** on Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:44 am

Hmmm...Earn more money/longer contract on the league's glamour franchise in LA or make less over fewer guaranteed years in Texas's armpit. Tough choice. :freak2:

khmrP · by **khmrP** on Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:52 am

Doc Brown wrote:So if you had to put money down right now, you would take the Rockets over Lakers?

right now for this season? sure hell wont be the lakers

Lakerman JSJ · by **Lakerman JSJ** on Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:56 am

khmrP wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:So if you had to put money down right now, you would take the Rockets over Lakers?

if I had to put money on this season, I wouldn't put it on the lakers thats for sure.

So you're saying the Rockets have a better chance of winning a ring this year than the Lakers?

Also, the question isn't necessarily about this season. In fact, that's totally irrelevant to this discussion since Dwight has no choice to go to the Rockets this season. Moving forward as if looking at things this coming offseason is the way to assess things.

Even if this current roster construction doesn't work out in the form of a ring, Dwight still gets max dollars in LA and we have all the cap room possible to build the team around him in the near future. Unless you think Harden is the 2nd coming of Jordan, the choice is pretty clear that the Lakers are the better choice for his future.

Doc Brown · by **Doc Brown** on Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:00 pm

khmrP wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:So if you had to put money down right now, you would take the Rockets over Lakers?

if I had to put money on this season, I wouldn't put it on the lakers thats for sure.

Topic - D12 leaving for Houston after this season

Discussion -

Doc Brown wrote:
khmrP wrote:When howard was against going to hou that was an entirely different team then it is now and considering all that's happened so far, I'd say their situation has gotten a lot better while ours is full of drama and failures.

So are you willing to bet that the Rockets win a ring before the Lakers do?

Question - Between the Lakers AND Rockets ONLY, since this is the discussion at hand. Who would you put money down on to win a championship, the Lakers or the Rockets, in the next 3-4 years? Who wins a championship before the other?

I'm taking your last response as you would pick the Rockets over the Lakers to win a championship before the other, based on your responses to my question.

LQOTD: Will Dwight Re-Sign?

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