LQOTD: Would we make playoffs if Mike Brown was still here?

Would the Lakers make the playoffs if Mike Brown was still here even after 1-4 start?

Yes
9
34%
No
17
65%
 
Total votes : 26

Re: LQOTD: Would we make playoffs if Mike Brown was still here?

Postby Lakerjones on Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:54 pm

No.

However, I do feel like we would have made the playoffs easier with Bernie at the helm than Mike D' Antoni. And yeah, I'm not joking about that. I feel like with Bernie there was no agenda, just letting the guys play to their strengths. D' Antoni had to lose a lot of games before finally realizing that trying to fit his system to our personnel wasn't working. I would have much rather rolled with Bernie and Eddie Jordan for the rest of the season and had the FO spend more time finding a more appropriate coach than MDA for our roster. In retrospect, with Jerry Buss' failing health, I now understand why they rushed the hire. But that doesn't make it any better.
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Re: LQOTD: Would we make playoffs if Mike Brown was still here?

Postby trodgers on Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:55 pm

It's not like this is a contrived comparison. Brown was our coach. We sucked. Not just for five games. We didn't win a preseason game either. Then MDA came along, we made a ton of adjustments, and we made the playoffs. I don't like how MDA handles minutes, but I think he made obvious beneficial changes.
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Re: LQOTD: Would we make playoffs if Mike Brown was still here?

Postby gcclaker on Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:01 pm

1. No
2. See #1
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Re: LQOTD: Would we make playoffs if Mike Brown was still here?

Postby Lakerjones on Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:02 pm

trodgers wrote:It's not like this is a contrived comparison. Brown was our coach. We sucked. Not just for five games. We didn't win a preseason game either. Then MDA came along, we made a ton of adjustments, and we made the playoffs. I don't like how MDA handles minutes, but I think he made obvious beneficial changes.


While the sample size is obviously small TRodgers, let's not forget how natural and easy they were playing under Bernie. That wasn't luck. While D' Antoni jerked around waiting for Nash to come back and lost a crap load of games, meanwhile Bernie B had us at 4 and 1 with the same personnel and the one game we lost to the Spurs was a down to the wire affair. He let our guys utilize their strengths whereas D' Antoni tried to impose his own agenda on them all the while throwing games away like they didn't matter.
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Re: LQOTD: Would we make playoffs if Mike Brown was still here?

Postby Tobias Funke on Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:23 pm

The Rock wrote:
Tobias Funke wrote:This is what we're resorting to to make Pringles look good? Comparing him to Mike Brown.

Such low standards.


Its just for discussion sakes thats what a forum is for.


Fair enough. Too harsh on my part.

I will say though, Brown was terrible, just dreadful, hard to argue that he would've lead the team to the playoffs, but the players were already tuning him out and maybe they couldve figured things out on their own and just ignore Brown.

To be fair though, they did finish as the 3rd seed under Brown last year after we traded the then 6th Man of the Year and didn't really replace him, to the point where Ramon Sessions was supposed to be a savior for us. And that was with Blake, MWP and Fisher playing some of the worst ball of their careers IMO.
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Re: LQOTD: Would we make playoffs if Mike Brown was still here?

Postby karacha on Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:41 pm

With these injuries? No. No way. Not that he's a horrible coach... he's not, but he's not as flexible as D'Antoni. He's not willing to experiment much. He would insist on "length" and stuff like that.
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Re: LQOTD: Would we make playoffs if Mike Brown was still here?

Postby KBJelleyBean24 on Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:02 pm

karacha wrote:With these injuries? No. No way. Not that he's a horrible coach... he's not, but he's not as flexible as D'Antoni. He's not willing to experiment much. He would insist on "length" and stuff like that.

This. No doubt the guy had a great work ethic which he tries to instill into his players, but his basketball IQ left a lot to be desired.
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Re: LQOTD: Would we make playoffs if Mike Brown was still here?

Postby gcclaker on Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:04 pm

KBJelleyBean24 wrote:
karacha wrote:With these injuries? No. No way. Not that he's a horrible coach... he's not, but he's not as flexible as D'Antoni. He's not willing to experiment much. He would insist on "length" and stuff like that.

This. No doubt the guy had a great work ethic which he tries to instill into his players, but his basketball IQ left a lot to be desired.

All Day, Every Day Brown is as rigid as a straight rule. When he does make an adjustment, it would be something like having World Peace at the 2.
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Re: LQOTD: Would we make playoffs if Mike Brown was still here?

Postby trodgers on Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:08 pm

Lakerjones wrote:
trodgers wrote:It's not like this is a contrived comparison. Brown was our coach. We sucked. Not just for five games. We didn't win a preseason game either. Then MDA came along, we made a ton of adjustments, and we made the playoffs. I don't like how MDA handles minutes, but I think he made obvious beneficial changes.


While the sample size is obviously small TRodgers, let's not forget how natural and easy they were playing under Bernie. That wasn't luck. While D' Antoni jerked around waiting for Nash to come back and lost a crap load of games, meanwhile Bernie B had us at 4 and 1 with the same personnel and the one game we lost to the Spurs was a down to the wire affair. He let our guys utilize their strengths whereas D' Antoni tried to impose his own agenda on them all the while throwing games away like they didn't matter.

But that speaks to my point.

The Brown change was - "Princeton"
The MDA change was MASSIVE

We ended the season on the following runs:
5 straight wins
8 of last 9
14 of last 19
19 of last 26
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Re: LQOTD: Would we make playoffs if Mike Brown was still here?

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:38 pm

Dratini927 wrote:Yes, experimenting is good, but that is what the pre-season should have been for. Instead, Brown was playing his rookies mainly for most of the game, and not really experimenting with what line ups would be beneficial for actual game situations. I am not sure what the reasoning was for Jamison/Meeks' bench time, but the experimenting during the regular season was not working. At least Mike D gave Jamison and Meeks their confidence back (for a while anyway.)

And I agree, Brown would not have played Kobe 45+ minutes per game. Both coaches have their faults.


Brown played Kobe a lot of heavy minutes. And trust me, if the Lakers were in the same postion, playing for their playoff lives during the shortened season, I think Brown would have played Kobe just has heavily, IMO.
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Re: LQOTD: Would we make playoffs if Mike Brown was still here?

Postby trodgers on Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:52 pm

Brown (2k11-12) vs. MDA (2k12-13)
-I didn't take into account the Bernie/Brown factor in 2k12-13 (Kobe played 42 or 43 in one game under Brown in 2k12-13.)

MPG
Brown: 38.5
MDA: 38.6

40+ Min
Brown: 18/58
MDA: 29/78

44+ Min
Brown: 5/58
MDA: 7/78

47+ Min
Brown: 3/58
MDA: 4/78
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Re: LQOTD: Would we make playoffs if Mike Brown was still here?

Postby pound4pound1 on Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:53 pm

dwighthowardsdad wrote:
Dratini927 wrote:Yes, experimenting is good, but that is what the pre-season should have been for. Instead, Brown was playing his rookies mainly for most of the game, and not really experimenting with what line ups would be beneficial for actual game situations. I am not sure what the reasoning was for Jamison/Meeks' bench time, but the experimenting during the regular season was not working. At least Mike D gave Jamison and Meeks their confidence back (for a while anyway.)

And I agree, Brown would not have played Kobe 45+ minutes per game. Both coaches have their faults.


Brown played Kobe a lot of heavy minutes. And trust me, if the Lakers were in the same postion, playing for their playoff lives during the shortened season, I think Brown would have played Kobe just has heavily, IMO.




i remember Brown putting Kobe and Dwight back on the floor early in the season because a 20pt lead dwindled to like 10pts in the 4th quarter....that was less than 5 games in...im sure he would have done the same thing MDA has
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Re: LQOTD: Would we make playoffs if Mike Brown was still here?

Postby Dratini927 on Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:01 pm

pound4pound1 wrote:
dwighthowardsdad wrote:
Dratini927 wrote:Yes, experimenting is good, but that is what the pre-season should have been for. Instead, Brown was playing his rookies mainly for most of the game, and not really experimenting with what line ups would be beneficial for actual game situations. I am not sure what the reasoning was for Jamison/Meeks' bench time, but the experimenting during the regular season was not working. At least Mike D gave Jamison and Meeks their confidence back (for a while anyway.)

And I agree, Brown would not have played Kobe 45+ minutes per game. Both coaches have their faults.


Brown played Kobe a lot of heavy minutes. And trust me, if the Lakers were in the same postion, playing for their playoff lives during the shortened season, I think Brown would have played Kobe just has heavily, IMO.


You're right, I did forget about those Mike Brown paranoia moments.

No more coaches named Mike in our future please lol.


i remember Brown putting Kobe and Dwight back on the floor early in the season because a 20pt lead dwindled to like 10pts in the 4th quarter....that was less than 5 games in...im sure he would have done the same thing MDA has
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Re: LQOTD: Would we make playoffs if Mike Brown was still here?

Postby 432J on Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:26 pm

no, and not because he's a bad coach

i think they would have missed the playoffs under brown because he wasn't using jamison and meeks who were major assets off the bench. even dan tony had jamison in his doghouse for a while before it finally clicked

and just so everyone knows, i'm not saying they made the playoffs because of mike dantoni. he is the absolute worst fit for this team. they got in because they finally got a little better in terms of chemistry and started getting the hang of playing with eachother. barely though. this team still has a long way to go
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Re: LQOTD: Would we make playoffs if Mike Brown was still here?

Postby purp n gold on Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:45 am

No, for two reasons that are almost bankable:

-Mike Brown would have dropped more games running the Princeton until the team "got it", or until they scrapped it altogether

-Brown was a TERRIBLE game manager. Being on the nice/generous side, he botches at least 5 games for us. Out of the playoffs.
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Re: LQOTD: Would we make playoffs if Mike Brown was still here?

Postby snackdaddy on Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:53 am

I might be in the minority, but I believe we make the playoffs with Brown. Probably with similar results record wise as Dantoni. Just woulda gone about it differently. Woulda played better defense, but offense woulda sucked. With Dantoni, offense is better, but defense tends to suck at times. And you need defense in the playoffs.
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Re: LQOTD: Would we make playoffs if Mike Brown was still here?

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:18 am

both sucked. But let's just say I have visions of Brown the past two games... :man10: so I think we still could make it but the reason would be that Utah sucks.
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Re: LQOTD: Would we make playoffs if Mike Brown was still here?

Postby DarthRekal on Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:25 am

JSM wrote:I feel as though we made the playoffs despite MDA not because of him (same would go for Brown the Clown), so I'll vote yes.

JSM always was a man of common sense... couldnt have said it any better :bow:
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Re: LQOTD: Would we make playoffs if Mike Brown was still here?

Postby JGC on Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:56 am

No one really knows.

What we do know is that Mike Brown did a lot better with a lot less. We won 41 games out of 66 in Mike Brown's first year. That's 51 wins in an 82 game season. He had Derek Fisher for most of the season. DEREK FISHER. He had Bynum instead of Howard. No Steve Nash. No Earl Clark off the bench. No Jordan Hill essentially at all. He actually played Kobe FEWER minutes if you can believe that (barely). He also did this in spite of what is probably one of Kobe's least efficient offensive seasons as a start (lows in FG%, 3PT%). MWP had his worst season EVER. Oh, and this was in his first season as coach.

He also had no training camp (and we all know how vital that is perceived to be 'round here).

We were the Pacific Division champs and 3rd seed in the West.

With Derek Fisher and Steve Blake instead of Steve Nash and Steve Blake.
With Andrew Bynum, instead of Dwight Howard.
With no Jordan Hill.
No Antawn Jamison.
No Earl Clark.

I really don't like either coach, but Mike Brown did a LOT more with a LOT less in pretty familiar circumstances. Neither coach had the much heralded training camp.

If he can do it with last year's jokesters, I'm pretty sure we would have been there with this year's group. I'd say the story would have a similar ending through and we'd still ... want Phil.
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Re: LQOTD: Would we make playoffs if Mike Brown was still here?

Postby Chillbongo on Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:07 am

Well said. I would never take Mike Brown back but fans want to see progress so we have to entertain the notion that we made a nice improvement. If you ask me we didn't, and the reasoning is laid out above. Yeah, we wouldn't be much better, we'd still rely on Kobe, his Princeton s*** was a failure, and his practices would've worn out our guys. But to say he'd be WORSE than MDA....is a long shot. We were 8 games under .500 at one point with MDA. And Brown did it with a broken Kobe. If Brown was here, we'd probably finish right around the same record-wise.
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Re: LQOTD: Would we make playoffs if Mike Brown was still here?

Postby pound4pound1 on Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:33 am

Chillbongo wrote:Well said. I would never take Mike Brown back but fans want to see progress so we have to entertain the notion that we made a nice improvement. If you ask me we didn't, and the reasoning is laid out above. Yeah, we wouldn't be much better, we'd still rely on Kobe, his Princeton s*** was a failure, and his practices would've worn out our guys. But to say he'd be WORSE than MDA....is a long shot. We were 8 games under .500 at one point with MDA. And Brown did it with a broken Kobe. If Brown was here, we'd probably finish right around the same record-wise.



it probably would have been the same...i dont know if it's just me but i felt like we were so handcuffed offensively under Brown that if we went down by 10 in the 4th, we were done


this team, i've seen make numerous comebacks and i never really lose hope if there's still time on the clock...i remember cracking 100 under Brown was like a magnificent, once-in-a-blue-moon kind of thing
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Re: LQOTD: Would we make playoffs if Mike Brown was still here?

Postby JGC on Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:53 am

pound4pound1 wrote:
Chillbongo wrote:Well said. I would never take Mike Brown back but fans want to see progress so we have to entertain the notion that we made a nice improvement. If you ask me we didn't, and the reasoning is laid out above. Yeah, we wouldn't be much better, we'd still rely on Kobe, his Princeton s*** was a failure, and his practices would've worn out our guys. But to say he'd be WORSE than MDA....is a long shot. We were 8 games under .500 at one point with MDA. And Brown did it with a broken Kobe. If Brown was here, we'd probably finish right around the same record-wise.



it probably would have been the same...i dont know if it's just me but i felt like we were so handcuffed offensively under Brown that if we went down by 10 in the 4th, we were done

this team, i've seen make numerous comebacks and i never really lose hope if there's still time on the clock...i remember cracking 100 under Brown was like a magnificent, once-in-a-blue-moon kind of thing


Yeah but you could say the same thing (the other way) for MDA. If we were up by 10, it meant nothing. No lead was safe.

Comebacks are a LOT more memorable, than holding on to leads but IMO, the latter is better and probably why we won a few more games with Brown (defense first even without a DPOY candidate).
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Re: LQOTD: Would we make playoffs if Mike Brown was still here?

Postby lakerfan2 on Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:06 am

I don't think Mike survives with these injuries though.

The difference in personnel is there, but having actual players playing helps too, no matter what conditioning they are in.

The starting 5 this year has played no more than 20 games together I think. That's awful. If Miami had the same situation, they'd be 7th place too.
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Re: LQOTD: Would we make playoffs if Mike Brown was still here?

Postby MusixFinest on Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:07 pm

Question is...would we have made the playoffs without Bernie Bickerstaff??? :man9:
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Re: LQOTD: Would we make playoffs if Mike Brown was still here?

Postby Vasashi17 on Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:26 pm

I think we make the playoffs with Brown and possibly as a higher seed.

The Princeton was Eddie's. I don't think Mike would have held on to that type of offense if the players continued to struggle. He was already being pressured to just walk away from that offense..if the season played out with him still on the sidelines, maybe they scrap it the same way they have scrapped alot of MDA's contributions to our offensive philosophy.

In terms of rotation, I think it would be better, but marginally. As Trodgers pointed out, "All day, every day" Brown didn't really find it necessary to rest our vets in excess.

The one thing I liked about Brown is that he really went after you with his video sessions on defense. That was his one thing and frankly, our defensive numbers wouldn't be this bad. Dwight was a shell of himself to start the season....would it have gone different after the 1-4 start? One thing is for sure, we struggled to get to 100 points during Mike's first season here, so you know he would have slowed down the tempo to take advantage of our length...haha. That right there, already helps us defensively by minimizing run outs from the opposition.

It did seem that players tuned out Brown...but that can be said about what the players are doing to D'Antoni. Seriously, other than the lack of D, I don't see much of D'Antoni's imprint on this team. We are pretty much doing exactly what he didn't want to do when he first got here....dump the ball to our bigs in the paint and let them dictate how the offense goes based off of how the defense converges on them. Heck even Jodie gave himself the red light on 3 and drove into the paint for a fantastic flush. Coach Vino, maybe?

If anything...I'm more interested to see in how Coach Vino takes over. That's the one thing that could help us with the Pop vs MDA disadvantage.
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