Mark Cuban Discusses Poor Fit Between Mavs and Chris Kaman

Mark Cuban Discusses Poor Fit Between Mavs and Chris Kaman

Postby Kobe8Fan on Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:14 pm

Image

Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban hasn't been shy about releasing what could be considered in-house information. Making remarks that could seem tame considering his vocal summer, Cuban told The Dallas Morning News this weekend that the Mavs allowed center Chris Kaman to walk because of offensive issues, not defensive ones.

"I think where we ran into problems ... we couldn't convince Chris not to put the ball on the floor," Cuban said when asked if Kaman and forward Dirk Nowitzki didn't fit together defensively. "When Chris would just pick and pop, he was a top-five shooter in the NBA. Dirk and Chris playing pick and pop, pick and roll was lethal. No team could stop it. Chris had his own way of doing things, and that created some issues. It just didn't work."

Before signing with the Los Angeles Lakers this offseason, Kaman shot a career-best 51 percent from 16-23 feet, according to HoopData.com, and 92 percent of those attempts were off assists -- a sign he was fitting in well as a pick-and-pop threat. He averaged 10.5 points and 5.6 rebounds in 66 games last season.

Cuban said that allowing Kaman to walk was easier since Nowitzki fit better alongside rangy big man Brandan Wright, who the team re-signed this offseason. Building off that tandem, the team also chased after and succeeded in signing free agent center Samuel Dalembert.

Cuban's comments concerning Kaman aren't the first, or most significant, that have raised some eyebrows this offseason. Earlier this summer, the Mavs' owner said his team was better off by not signing free agent Dwight Howard. Cuban later went in-depth regarding the pitch Dallas gave to Howard before the center signed with the Houston Rockets.


http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/8/11/4 ... hris-kaman
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Re: Mark Cuban Discusses Poor Fit Between Mavs and Chris Kaman

Postby therealdeal on Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:17 pm

Chris Kaman is better than a catch and shoot guy. Build your offense to suit your personnel, not vice-versa.

He's got a decent post game and some good offensive talent. Take advantage of that.
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Re: Mark Cuban Discusses Poor Fit Between Mavs and Chris Kaman

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:10 pm

When he had a string of good health he was one of the top 4 centers in the NBA.... He's never been great defensively but he has rebounded well and shot well in the past.

If he can stay on the floor I look for 12 and 7 out of him this year. If/when Pau gets hurt he might put up better numbers as he isn't afflicted with the "pass first" gene.
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Re: Mark Cuban Discusses Poor Fit Between Mavs and Chris Kaman

Postby lakersin4 on Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:55 pm

Cuban bashes every player that leaves Dallas or gets courted by them in Free Agency & signs elsewhere.. Does he think other players don't see that? Who wants to play for an owner that's going to talk you down as soon as you walk out the door?

Regarding Kaman.. I knew his midrange game had gotten really good but seeing the numbers really brings it home.. D'antoni should LOVE coaching this guy, & he should absolutely thrive in this system.
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Re: Mark Cuban Discusses Poor Fit Between Mavs and Chris Kaman

Postby noobiew on Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:57 pm

Kobe8Fan wrote:
Cuban told The Dallas Morning News this weekend that the Mavs allowed center Chris Kaman to walk because of offensive issues, not defensive ones.


This statement make me LOL, its obvious that Kaman and Dirk were bad together on the floor because of defensive issues not offensive ones.
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Re: Mark Cuban Discusses Poor Fit Between Mavs and Chris Kaman

Postby Rooscooter on Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:28 am

^^Not so sure about that..... like Pau and Howard they needed the same space on the floor to be effective. Neither was comfortable together on the offensive end..... and it showed most of the season that they played together.

Kaman had better be our back-up or we will see the same issues here with two big men needing the same space on the floor. The last thing we need again is Pau roaming the perimeter.....
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Re: Mark Cuban Discusses Poor Fit Between Mavs and Chris Kaman

Postby khmrP on Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:16 pm

Cuban is a horrible owner when it comes to PR, might be a great one in terms of taking care of his players but dude always putting his foot in his mouth.
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Re: Mark Cuban Discusses Poor Fit Between Mavs and Chris Kaman

Postby Frank Dux on Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:49 pm

^I tend to agree. It's not professional at all.
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Re: Mark Cuban Discusses Poor Fit Between Mavs and Chris Kaman

Postby abeer3 on Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:18 pm

Rooscooter wrote:^^Not so sure about that..... like Pau and Howard they needed the same space on the floor to be effective. Neither was comfortable together on the offensive end..... and it showed most of the season that they played together.

Kaman had better be our back-up or we will see the same issues here with two big men needing the same space on the floor. The last thing we need again is Pau roaming the perimeter.....


all this.

Cuban is a horrible owner when it comes to PR, might be a great one in terms of taking care of his players but dude always putting his foot in his mouth.


I wouldn't call this putting his foot in his mouth. he told the truth about why they didn't bother making an offer to Kaman, and it was about him not being coachable (if you read between the lines). Cuban's had a lot of good things to say about former players, too. maybe, just maybe, there's a reason teams keep passing on Kaman?
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Re: Mark Cuban Discusses Poor Fit Between Mavs and Chris Kaman

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:59 am

Baloney. He's protecting Dirk by not saying that Dirk's bad on defense. They need a defensive guy to compensate for Dirk, especially pick and roll defense. Kaman's worse than Dirk when it comes to defense. That's why they let him go.
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Re: Mark Cuban Discusses Poor Fit Between Mavs and Chris Kaman

Postby khmrP on Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:06 am

abeer3 wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:^^Not so sure about that..... like Pau and Howard they needed the same space on the floor to be effective. Neither was comfortable together on the offensive end..... and it showed most of the season that they played together.

Kaman had better be our back-up or we will see the same issues here with two big men needing the same space on the floor. The last thing we need again is Pau roaming the perimeter.....


all this.

Cuban is a horrible owner when it comes to PR, might be a great one in terms of taking care of his players but dude always putting his foot in his mouth.


I wouldn't call this putting his foot in his mouth. he told the truth about why they didn't bother making an offer to Kaman, and it was about him not being coachable (if you read between the lines). Cuban's had a lot of good things to say about former players, too. maybe, just maybe, there's a reason teams keep passing on Kaman?



I wasn't just referencing his statement about Kaman, did you even read the entire article? He also made comments about why they're better of w/o Howard even though he probably would've gotten on his knee's and begged if that was what Howard wanted. He also played off Deron William when he didn't sign with Dall citing he didn't want to bother because he "felt" Deron wasn't interested even though that season all you heard was Deron was pretty much dall bound.
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Re: Mark Cuban Discusses Poor Fit Between Mavs and Chris Kaman

Postby abeer3 on Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:14 pm

1. he said the current roster is better for the current season than the roster would have been for the current season had they gotten howard. I believe that's possible. they probably would have had no pg and not a single viable bench player. see: lakers last year when nash and blake went down.

2. I think Cuban really didn't care that much for dwill. didn't think he was worth max money. he may be right there, too.

what Cuban was wrong about was how the new cba would affect the way nba teams conduct business. it took him two years to realize that he could have basically kept on doing what he was doing before. he was also wrong about letting chandler walk, thinking that money was better kept free.

I think Cuban's a very good owner, just kind of an annoying person. he doesn't like admitting when he's wrong (took him like a decade to admit that the way he played the nash FA situation was off), but he is willing to change strategy based on previous and current results, and he's willing to spend. more than I can say for a lot of owners.
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Re: Mark Cuban Discusses Poor Fit Between Mavs and Chris Kaman

Postby khmrP on Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:16 am

abeer3 wrote:1. he said the current roster is better for the current season than the roster would have been for the current season had they gotten howard. I believe that's possible. they probably would have had no pg and not a single viable bench player. see: lakers last year when nash and blake went down.

2. I think Cuban really didn't care that much for dwill. didn't think he was worth max money. he may be right there, too.

what Cuban was wrong about was how the new cba would affect the way nba teams conduct business. it took him two years to realize that he could have basically kept on doing what he was doing before. he was also wrong about letting chandler walk, thinking that money was better kept free.

I think Cuban's a very good owner, just kind of an annoying person. he doesn't like admitting when he's wrong (took him like a decade to admit that the way he played the nash FA situation was off), but he is willing to change strategy based on previous and current results, and he's willing to spend. more than I can say for a lot of owners.


Cuban team SCREAMS of medicority for the next 2-3yrs so NO, they are not better off w/o Howard. Like Calderon/Monta is really going to take you far? He isn't willing to spend freely either as your post would suggest based on Nash and braking down the championship team. He is a calculated spender and he's looking more and more like a FOOL the last 2-3yrs with his big mouth and big name FA pursuit. You can't tell me your basically threw away 2 seasons so you can sign Jose Calderon and Monta Ellis :man10:
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Re: Mark Cuban Discusses Poor Fit Between Mavs and Chris Kaman

Postby Rooscooter on Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:38 pm

khmrP wrote:
abeer3 wrote:1. he said the current roster is better for the current season than the roster would have been for the current season had they gotten howard. I believe that's possible. they probably would have had no pg and not a single viable bench player. see: lakers last year when nash and blake went down.

2. I think Cuban really didn't care that much for dwill. didn't think he was worth max money. he may be right there, too.

what Cuban was wrong about was how the new cba would affect the way nba teams conduct business. it took him two years to realize that he could have basically kept on doing what he was doing before. he was also wrong about letting chandler walk, thinking that money was better kept free.

I think Cuban's a very good owner, just kind of an annoying person. he doesn't like admitting when he's wrong (took him like a decade to admit that the way he played the nash FA situation was off), but he is willing to change strategy based on previous and current results, and he's willing to spend. more than I can say for a lot of owners.


Cuban team SCREAMS of medicority for the next 2-3yrs so NO, they are not better off w/o Howard. Like Calderon/Monta is really going to take you far? He isn't willing to spend freely either as your post would suggest based on Nash and braking down the championship team. He is a calculated spender and he's looking more and more like a FOOL the last 2-3yrs with his big mouth and big name FA pursuit. You can't tell me your basically threw away 2 seasons so you can sign Jose Calderon and Monta Ellis :man10:


Something tells me you won't be to thrilled with our next two off-seasons then....
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Re: Mark Cuban Discusses Poor Fit Between Mavs and Chris Kaman

Postby abeer3 on Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:16 pm

khmrP wrote:
abeer3 wrote:1. he said the current roster is better for the current season than the roster would have been for the current season had they gotten howard. I believe that's possible. they probably would have had no pg and not a single viable bench player. see: lakers last year when nash and blake went down.

2. I think Cuban really didn't care that much for dwill. didn't think he was worth max money. he may be right there, too.

what Cuban was wrong about was how the new cba would affect the way nba teams conduct business. it took him two years to realize that he could have basically kept on doing what he was doing before. he was also wrong about letting chandler walk, thinking that money was better kept free.

I think Cuban's a very good owner, just kind of an annoying person. he doesn't like admitting when he's wrong (took him like a decade to admit that the way he played the nash FA situation was off), but he is willing to change strategy based on previous and current results, and he's willing to spend. more than I can say for a lot of owners.


Cuban team SCREAMS of medicority for the next 2-3yrs so NO, they are not better off w/o Howard. Like Calderon/Monta is really going to take you far? He isn't willing to spend freely either as your post would suggest based on Nash and braking down the championship team. He is a calculated spender and he's looking more and more like a FOOL the last 2-3yrs with his big mouth and big name FA pursuit. You can't tell me your basically threw away 2 seasons so you can sign Jose Calderon and Monta Ellis :man10:


re-read that part.

and nobody, including cuban, is suggesting that the plan was a success. if you read his comments, he said it was a failure. does that mean you quit? to his credit, he abandoned the sunk cost that was superstar chasing and refocused on team building.

as roo said, get used to it. if the lakers are smart, they'll move more quickly into the second phase than cuban did. getting guys like calderon and ellis on reasonable deals makes more sense than hoarding cap space and hoping a star bolts his team in FA (and chooses you over several other teams trying to do the same thing).
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Re: Mark Cuban Discusses Poor Fit Between Mavs and Chris Kaman

Postby rydjorker121 on Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:18 pm

Kaman's inside scoring has rapidly deteriorated over the past several years, but he's lucky he has a trusty jumper. But that's it when it comes to anything strength-worthy. I'm pretty sure Cuban recognized that, and that's why he let him out to the wolves.
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Re: Mark Cuban Discusses Poor Fit Between Mavs and Chris Kaman

Postby LTLakerFan on Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:04 pm

rydjorker121 wrote:Kaman's inside scoring has rapidly deteriorated over the past several years, but he's lucky he has a trusty jumper. But that's it when it comes to anything strength-worthy. I'm pretty sure Cuban recognized that, and that's why he let him out to the wolves.


In your wonderful analyses of all things relating to current and new Lakers players, just curious, in your own heart or personal evaluation, do you ever let "new team", "history" or "chemistry" maybe give you a reason to hope for improvement for these guys that you just lay it out there and detail so well....with no fan emotion attached, rydjorker? Like someone like Kaman for instance. He has to know there is money at some level to stay here in L.A. next year, if let's say he really wanted to be here. Can someone like him still reach down, go to work and maybe improve over last couple of years? Honest question.
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Re: Mark Cuban Discusses Poor Fit Between Mavs and Chris Kaman

Postby rydjorker121 on Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:02 pm

LTLakerFan,

First off, I like to consider myself as impartial with no fan emotion, but I've been born and raised in LA, and have been in this forum since 2003. I remember when I first joined this forum, I definitely was a massive Laker homer and geared almost all my scouting reports with a huge pro-Laker slant. Shout out to everyone who remembered my Kareem Rush avatar and my optimistic assessment of Shannon Brown. The problem was, I was just basing those assessments off of overly optimistic draft writers like Jonathan Givony/Aran Smith who called people like Kwame the next KG and DeShawn Stevenson the next Michael Jordan back when those guys were high school seniors. I remember nbadraft.net once dubbing ShanWow the next Gilbert Arenas. Not surprisingly, those guys all misfired. Like with Adam Morrison and Kwame Brown, you can't be excited just because those guys were lottery picks. You need to look at what sticks, and what doesn't. Earl Clark always had rebounding potential, and used it to break through. Adam Morrison never really had NBA translatable skills.

So I had to change my approach a bit--not be too optimistic. Five years ago I'd probably be writing a scouting report saying that Kaman's our jumpshooting savior blahblah. But with all the stuff in the public domain like hoopdata/82games/synergy/draftexpress european stats/nba.com's statscube, I was able to get a consolidation of everything, analyzing seasonal trends and emphasizing which things
(rebounding, shooting, etc) age gracefully. Yeah, there are people who hate statistics (including the Lakers? I kind of suspect it), but when I analyzed completely from a fan perspective, man, there were way too many misfires. This new comprehensive, "impartial" methodology I think works.

Your opinion of Kaman will depend on the idea whether the mid-range shot is "a lost art"--something I remember Stu Lantz and other people mentioning a ton back in the early 2000s--or whether it's the worst shot in the game--something that's now widely acknowledged today. I was neutral on this in the early 2000s, but now I'm completely in the other side--I think it's the worst shot of the game. I remember when we had Jason Kapono and he hurt our team badly by taking and making long twos instead of doing his job from behind the arc. Truthfully, though, that's what he's been doing his whole career.

Kaman's the other way--a 7 footer who needs to be attacking the rim, but instead is really good at making mid-range J's so he's doing this almost exclusively. I mentioned this in several of my scouting reports--this is "mid-range destruction". It's subliminal so the team doesn't notice it at first, but it affects the team's bottom line in offensive efficiency. And the thing about Kaman? He's 31, and never had much athleticism to begin with. His declining shotblocking/finishing rate suggests he's just losing it to age. And that's the problem. We're getting him right when he's aging. Even his lone strength--mid-range J--I hate. And defensively he's flat out awful. So yeah, not a fan at all. Even at the veteran minimum. It was kind of like Jamison--you think he'll hurt the team overall defensively, but hey, he comes cheap, has a history of production, veteran presence, so you talk yourself into signing him. I don't think the Laker-Kaman relationship will end up well at all. Especially since D'Antoni has never done well with slow, plodding centers. So there's that too.
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Re: Mark Cuban Discusses Poor Fit Between Mavs and Chris Kaman

Postby LTLakerFan on Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:20 am

Got it.....excellent, thanks. Keep giving it to us strait, what you do for CL is a great asset.
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Re: Mark Cuban Discusses Poor Fit Between Mavs and Chris Kaman

Postby khmrP on Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:31 pm

Rooscooter wrote:
khmrP wrote:
abeer3 wrote:1. he said the current roster is better for the current season than the roster would have been for the current season had they gotten howard. I believe that's possible. they probably would have had no pg and not a single viable bench player. see: lakers last year when nash and blake went down.

2. I think Cuban really didn't care that much for dwill. didn't think he was worth max money. he may be right there, too.

what Cuban was wrong about was how the new cba would affect the way nba teams conduct business. it took him two years to realize that he could have basically kept on doing what he was doing before. he was also wrong about letting chandler walk, thinking that money was better kept free.

I think Cuban's a very good owner, just kind of an annoying person. he doesn't like admitting when he's wrong (took him like a decade to admit that the way he played the nash FA situation was off), but he is willing to change strategy based on previous and current results, and he's willing to spend. more than I can say for a lot of owners.


Cuban team SCREAMS of medicority for the next 2-3yrs so NO, they are not better off w/o Howard. Like Calderon/Monta is really going to take you far? He isn't willing to spend freely either as your post would suggest based on Nash and braking down the championship team. He is a calculated spender and he's looking more and more like a FOOL the last 2-3yrs with his big mouth and big name FA pursuit. You can't tell me your basically threw away 2 seasons so you can sign Jose Calderon and Monta Ellis :man10:


Something tells me you won't be to thrilled with our next two off-seasons then....

Well im not as much a pessimist as you....im not expecting lebron but im pretty sure mgmt wont be as dumb as cuban either with the likes of jose/monta type signing
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Re: Mark Cuban Discusses Poor Fit Between Mavs and Chris Kaman

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:34 pm

khmrP wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:
khmrP wrote:
abeer3 wrote:1. he said the current roster is better for the current season than the roster would have been for the current season had they gotten howard. I believe that's possible. they probably would have had no pg and not a single viable bench player. see: lakers last year when nash and blake went down.

2. I think Cuban really didn't care that much for dwill. didn't think he was worth max money. he may be right there, too.

what Cuban was wrong about was how the new cba would affect the way nba teams conduct business. it took him two years to realize that he could have basically kept on doing what he was doing before. he was also wrong about letting chandler walk, thinking that money was better kept free.

I think Cuban's a very good owner, just kind of an annoying person. he doesn't like admitting when he's wrong (took him like a decade to admit that the way he played the nash FA situation was off), but he is willing to change strategy based on previous and current results, and he's willing to spend. more than I can say for a lot of owners.


Cuban team SCREAMS of medicority for the next 2-3yrs so NO, they are not better off w/o Howard. Like Calderon/Monta is really going to take you far? He isn't willing to spend freely either as your post would suggest based on Nash and braking down the championship team. He is a calculated spender and he's looking more and more like a FOOL the last 2-3yrs with his big mouth and big name FA pursuit. You can't tell me your basically threw away 2 seasons so you can sign Jose Calderon and Monta Ellis :man10:


Something tells me you won't be to thrilled with our next two off-seasons then....

Well im not as much a pessimist as you....im not expecting lebron but im pretty sure mgmt wont be as dumb as cuban either with the likes of jose/monta type signing


...one man's pessimism is another's realism.....
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Re: Mark Cuban Discusses Poor Fit Between Mavs and Chris Kaman

Postby khmrP on Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:52 pm

abeer3 wrote:
khmrP wrote:
abeer3 wrote:1. he said the current roster is better for the current season than the roster would have been for the current season had they gotten howard. I believe that's possible. they probably would have had no pg and not a single viable bench player. see: lakers last year when nash and blake went down.

2. I think Cuban really didn't care that much for dwill. didn't think he was worth max money. he may be right there, too.

what Cuban was wrong about was how the new cba would affect the way nba teams conduct business. it took him two years to realize that he could have basically kept on doing what he was doing before. he was also wrong about letting chandler walk, thinking that money was better kept free.

I think Cuban's a very good owner, just kind of an annoying person. he doesn't like admitting when he's wrong (took him like a decade to admit that the way he played the nash FA situation was off), but he is willing to change strategy based on previous and current results, and he's willing to spend. more than I can say for a lot of owners.


Cuban team SCREAMS of medicority for the next 2-3yrs so NO, they are not better off w/o Howard. Like Calderon/Monta is really going to take you far? He isn't willing to spend freely either as your post would suggest based on Nash and braking down the championship team. He is a calculated spender and he's looking more and more like a FOOL the last 2-3yrs with his big mouth and big name FA pursuit. You can't tell me your basically threw away 2 seasons so you can sign Jose Calderon and Monta Ellis :man10:


re-read that part.

and nobody, including cuban, is suggesting that the plan was a success. if you read his comments, he said it was a failure. does that mean you quit? to his credit, he abandoned the sunk cost that was superstar chasing and refocused on team building.

as roo said, get used to it. if the lakers are smart, they'll move more quickly into the second phase than cuban did. getting guys like calderon and ellis on reasonable deals makes more sense than hoarding cap space and hoping a star bolts his team in FA (and chooses you over several other teams trying to do the same thing).


umm I have not seen any comment where Cuban acknowledge he failed, he more or less states he choose to go a different route. When you say things like "we're better off w/o Howard" when its been 2 or 3 years worth of planning, thats not acknowledging you failed. So you want mgmt. to move into phase 2 like Cuban and sign medicore players in the mold of Jose/Monta then?
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Re: Mark Cuban Discusses Poor Fit Between Mavs and Chris Kaman

Postby khmrP on Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:54 pm

Rooscooter wrote:
...one man's pessimism is another's realism.....


ok confusicious, I hope you dont come around here acting like you knew it all along if/when mgmt. does something right with this 2014/15 planning
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Re: Mark Cuban Discusses Poor Fit Between Mavs and Chris Kaman

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:31 pm

khmrP wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:
...one man's pessimism is another's realism.....


ok confusicious, I hope you dont come around here acting like you knew it all along if/when mgmt. does something right with this 2014/15 planning


You have a few choices here..... Ignore list...... Don't respond...... Or just don't read. Makes no difference to me.
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Re: Mark Cuban Discusses Poor Fit Between Mavs and Chris Kaman

Postby khmrP on Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:04 pm

If you gona be such a pessimist oops I mean realist, then why be a fan at all? most of your post these days are just gloom and doom like we pretty much shouldn't hope for anything good to happen anymore. :man3:
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