Melo AND Bron are Laker targets in 2014 (Ramona pg. 10)

Re: Melo AND Bron are Laker targets in 2014 (Ramona pg. 10)

Postby revgen on Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:31 pm

LAL4EVA wrote:To be fair to him, it’s better to judge the man for what he’s done for almost his entire career versus what he did last year.


He's one of the most disappointing postseason players of his generation considering his talent level. That's not just based on last season. That's based on his whole career. Even Lebron, who IMO took way too long to figure out how to perform in the postseason eventually figured it out. Melo is closing in on 30 years old and still doesn't get it.

I don't mind him being here as long as Nash and Kobe are here to provide leadership. But I don't want him here longterm.
"Every time he’s hurt, he always plays, he always comes through."

- Metta World Peace on teammate Kobe Bryant
revgen
HDTV/Multimedia Guru
 
Posts: 21702
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:53 pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Melo AND Bron are Laker targets in 2014 (Ramona pg. 10)

Postby LAL4EVA on Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:37 pm

revgen wrote:
LAL4EVA wrote:To be fair to him, it’s better to judge the man for what he’s done for almost his entire career versus what he did last year.


He's one of the most disappointing postseason players of his generation considering his talent level. That's not just based on last season. That's based on his whole career. Even Lebron, who IMO took way too long to figure out how to perform in the postseason eventually figured it out. Melo is closing in on 30 years old and still doesn't get it.


well if you're expecting Lebron type progress then you're going to be disappointed a lot. I don't think he can carry a team, much like Pau at the time of his acquisition. I look at him as a player that can thrive in a specific system and I think the triangle could be that.

With regards to his past playoffs performances, he's had some good outings when he's not relied upon as the de facto leader. When chauncey was around is an example
LAL4EVA

 
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:57 pm

Re: Melo AND Bron are Laker targets in 2014 (Ramona pg. 10)

Postby Rooscooter on Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:57 pm

LAL4EVA wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:
LAL4EVA wrote:Hi guys, been a long time lurker here and occasionally post whenever I have extended time.

Anyways, in regards to Carmelo being signed as a 30 year old, while I'm not the biggest Carmelo fan out there, I think his game will age very well. He doesn't rely on his athleticism as much as other stars do and he plays extremely well below the rim. I think he has one of the best footwork in the league and those things by themselves, I think, will ensure that he doesn't just fall off a cliff with his production as he ages. Also, I've always been of the idea that Melo in the triangle would be devastating. It will give him enough room to operate while hiding his defensive flaws, with the right team in place. Of course that all depends on him getting his head in the game and buying into the system, which i think Phil would have a good chance of doing. I wouldn't be opposed to signing him to a 4 year deal next year assuming we bring back Phil and the 4th year being a team option.

What do you fellows think?


From this point you may be right. He used to go to the hoop quite a bit and he even had a decent back to the basket game in Karl's offense. Last year in NY he was just a jump shooter and a streaky one at that. For me that's the biggest problem with his game. He's a jump shooter at this point and in the playoffs not a good one at all.

There are a whole host of reasons I don't what the guy anywhere near the Lakers but based just on his game he's become a one dimensional offensive player and never was a good defender or facilitator. Add in that he's a mental midget that can't control his ego or temper and to me he's one of the more overrated players in the game.


To be fair to him, it’s better to judge the man for what he’s done for almost his entire career versus what he did last year. Which means I’m still looking at him as a player who is extremely capable in the post in Isolation situations. I do agree with you that last year he had a far worse year than what most proclaimed, but that’s just one season. I think they gave him too much freedom if you know what I mean. While he’s not the most mentally tough star in the league, he’d fare better as kind of a 1a or 1b type player. Much like Odom did upon the arrival of Pau, I think Melo would thrive not having that pressure with Kobe and Pau in the fold. He’s not a great defender or a passer, but he’s not as bad as you’re making him sound. He does have the capability to pass out of the post and even be a viable defender in the right defensive schemes, the only question is if he’d be able to get his head in the game and Kobe and Phil might be able to rein him in. I’m not saying this is ideal, but considering our realistic options, I think this is our best one.


If we use that logic to it's conclusion then we must still accept that he's still the punk that punched and ran as well as the one that choked Sasha out of bounds away from the ball.

As for your other thoughts. I don't necessarily agree with Melo having success with other stars in the line-up. He took quarters completely off when playing with a ball dominant Iverson in Denver. Kobe is nearly as dominant at time and since he doesn't move well off the ball or excel at much else other than scoring his value is diminished not enhanced playing with a guy like Kobe. I don't see the Olympic teaming as relevant in this discussion because the quality of opponents is massive vs an 82 game schedule in the NBA.

He's a jump shooting scorer who doesn't do well in the playoffs. He has little in the way of leadership skills, is lacking in basic sportsmanship and has a history of really punkish behavior. If he doesn't have the ball in his hands he's not even as useful as a 2012 MWP.
"If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

“The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present - and is gravely to be regarded." Dwight Eisenhower

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it" Thomas Sowell
User avatar
Rooscooter

 
Posts: 22531
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:25 pm
Location: Chandler AZ and Andalué

Re: Melo AND Bron are Laker targets in 2014 (Ramona pg. 10)

Postby LAL4EVA on Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:12 pm

Rooscooter wrote:
LAL4EVA wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:
LAL4EVA wrote:Hi guys, been a long time lurker here and occasionally post whenever I have extended time.

Anyways, in regards to Carmelo being signed as a 30 year old, while I'm not the biggest Carmelo fan out there, I think his game will age very well. He doesn't rely on his athleticism as much as other stars do and he plays extremely well below the rim. I think he has one of the best footwork in the league and those things by themselves, I think, will ensure that he doesn't just fall off a cliff with his production as he ages. Also, I've always been of the idea that Melo in the triangle would be devastating. It will give him enough room to operate while hiding his defensive flaws, with the right team in place. Of course that all depends on him getting his head in the game and buying into the system, which i think Phil would have a good chance of doing. I wouldn't be opposed to signing him to a 4 year deal next year assuming we bring back Phil and the 4th year being a team option.

What do you fellows think?


From this point you may be right. He used to go to the hoop quite a bit and he even had a decent back to the basket game in Karl's offense. Last year in NY he was just a jump shooter and a streaky one at that. For me that's the biggest problem with his game. He's a jump shooter at this point and in the playoffs not a good one at all.

There are a whole host of reasons I don't what the guy anywhere near the Lakers but based just on his game he's become a one dimensional offensive player and never was a good defender or facilitator. Add in that he's a mental midget that can't control his ego or temper and to me he's one of the more overrated players in the game.


To be fair to him, it’s better to judge the man for what he’s done for almost his entire career versus what he did last year. Which means I’m still looking at him as a player who is extremely capable in the post in Isolation situations. I do agree with you that last year he had a far worse year than what most proclaimed, but that’s just one season. I think they gave him too much freedom if you know what I mean. While he’s not the most mentally tough star in the league, he’d fare better as kind of a 1a or 1b type player. Much like Odom did upon the arrival of Pau, I think Melo would thrive not having that pressure with Kobe and Pau in the fold. He’s not a great defender or a passer, but he’s not as bad as you’re making him sound. He does have the capability to pass out of the post and even be a viable defender in the right defensive schemes, the only question is if he’d be able to get his head in the game and Kobe and Phil might be able to rein him in. I’m not saying this is ideal, but considering our realistic options, I think this is our best one.


If we use that logic to it's conclusion then we must still accept that he's still the punk that punched and ran as well as the one that choked Sasha out of bounds away from the ball.

As for your other thoughts. I don't necessarily agree with Melo having success with other stars in the line-up. He took quarters completely off when playing with a ball dominant Iverson in Denver. Kobe is nearly as dominant at time and since he doesn't move well off the ball or excel at much else other than scoring his value is diminished not enhanced playing with a guy like Kobe. I don't see the Olympic teaming as relevant in this discussion because the quality of opponents is massive vs an 82 game schedule in the NBA.

He's a jump shooting scorer who doesn't do well in the playoffs. He has little in the way of leadership skills, is lacking in basic sportsmanship and has a history of really punkish behavior. If he doesn't have the ball in his hands he's not even as useful as a 2012 MWP.

Unless he punched players and ran for the past 10 years consistently, your interpretation of “my logic” is incorrect. You’re using two incidents to characterize the player/individual that he is. I’m saying that for the greater part of his career, he was a terrific post player, often times going to the rim strong. Last year he didn’t do that, but I think he can given his consistent production in the post the 8 years prior to last year.
I never looked at Iverson as a leader type although he was a great player without a doubt. With Billups, he did very well in the playoffs, which leads me to believe that he needs guidance that our players can provide. Obviously we can all agree that Kobe has been successful in the triangle and during both our championship runs, he shared the post with other players (shaq, pau, bynum, odom), which means that there’s no reason that both can’t work out of the post. His real value to our team woud be that we can have a prolific scorer to pair with Kobe and the cast that we put together. One on one in the post, Melo would be devastating. Team USA stuff is irrelevant since the competition cannot really be compared to the level of talent that we had.
LAL4EVA

 
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:57 pm

Re: Melo AND Bron are Laker targets in 2014 (Ramona pg. 10)

Postby Rooscooter on Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:34 pm

LAL4EVA wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:
LAL4EVA wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:
LAL4EVA wrote:Hi guys, been a long time lurker here and occasionally post whenever I have extended time.

Anyways, in regards to Carmelo being signed as a 30 year old, while I'm not the biggest Carmelo fan out there, I think his game will age very well. He doesn't rely on his athleticism as much as other stars do and he plays extremely well below the rim. I think he has one of the best footwork in the league and those things by themselves, I think, will ensure that he doesn't just fall off a cliff with his production as he ages. Also, I've always been of the idea that Melo in the triangle would be devastating. It will give him enough room to operate while hiding his defensive flaws, with the right team in place. Of course that all depends on him getting his head in the game and buying into the system, which i think Phil would have a good chance of doing. I wouldn't be opposed to signing him to a 4 year deal next year assuming we bring back Phil and the 4th year being a team option.

What do you fellows think?


From this point you may be right. He used to go to the hoop quite a bit and he even had a decent back to the basket game in Karl's offense. Last year in NY he was just a jump shooter and a streaky one at that. For me that's the biggest problem with his game. He's a jump shooter at this point and in the playoffs not a good one at all.

There are a whole host of reasons I don't what the guy anywhere near the Lakers but based just on his game he's become a one dimensional offensive player and never was a good defender or facilitator. Add in that he's a mental midget that can't control his ego or temper and to me he's one of the more overrated players in the game.


To be fair to him, it’s better to judge the man for what he’s done for almost his entire career versus what he did last year. Which means I’m still looking at him as a player who is extremely capable in the post in Isolation situations. I do agree with you that last year he had a far worse year than what most proclaimed, but that’s just one season. I think they gave him too much freedom if you know what I mean. While he’s not the most mentally tough star in the league, he’d fare better as kind of a 1a or 1b type player. Much like Odom did upon the arrival of Pau, I think Melo would thrive not having that pressure with Kobe and Pau in the fold. He’s not a great defender or a passer, but he’s not as bad as you’re making him sound. He does have the capability to pass out of the post and even be a viable defender in the right defensive schemes, the only question is if he’d be able to get his head in the game and Kobe and Phil might be able to rein him in. I’m not saying this is ideal, but considering our realistic options, I think this is our best one.


If we use that logic to it's conclusion then we must still accept that he's still the punk that punched and ran as well as the one that choked Sasha out of bounds away from the ball.

As for your other thoughts. I don't necessarily agree with Melo having success with other stars in the line-up. He took quarters completely off when playing with a ball dominant Iverson in Denver. Kobe is nearly as dominant at time and since he doesn't move well off the ball or excel at much else other than scoring his value is diminished not enhanced playing with a guy like Kobe. I don't see the Olympic teaming as relevant in this discussion because the quality of opponents is massive vs an 82 game schedule in the NBA.

He's a jump shooting scorer who doesn't do well in the playoffs. He has little in the way of leadership skills, is lacking in basic sportsmanship and has a history of really punkish behavior. If he doesn't have the ball in his hands he's not even as useful as a 2012 MWP.

Unless he punched players and ran for the past 10 years consistently, your interpretation of “my logic” is incorrect. You’re using two incidents to characterize the player/individual that he is. I’m saying that for the greater part of his career, he was a terrific post player, often times going to the rim strong. Last year he didn’t do that, but I think he can given his consistent production in the post the 8 years prior to last year.
I never looked at Iverson as a leader type although he was a great player without a doubt. With Billups, he did very well in the playoffs, which leads me to believe that he needs guidance that our players can provide. Obviously we can all agree that Kobe has been successful in the triangle and during both our championship runs, he shared the post with other players (shaq, pau, bynum, odom), which means that there’s no reason that both can’t work out of the post. His real value to our team woud be that we can have a prolific scorer to pair with Kobe and the cast that we put together. One on one in the post, Melo would be devastating. Team USA stuff is irrelevant since the competition cannot really be compared to the level of talent that we had.


3rd most suspended player and second most in fines over his 10 years...... the examples I used were the bigger ones but by no means the only ones. Just last year in the playoffs he couldn't control himself and got suspended for a playoff game.

Off the ball he is basically useless. No evidence to the contrary exists for him. His shooting performances in the playoffs are not good and he isn't good down the stretch in those situations either.

I still think he has no interest in winning.... he's more interested in leverage and getting a big contract in NYC.... and is the case most of the time.... using LA for that leverage.
"If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

“The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present - and is gravely to be regarded." Dwight Eisenhower

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it" Thomas Sowell
User avatar
Rooscooter

 
Posts: 22531
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:25 pm
Location: Chandler AZ and Andalué

Re: Melo AND Bron are Laker targets in 2014 (Ramona pg. 10)

Postby lakersin4 on Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:36 pm

khmrP wrote:^^^a name I didn't want to throw out there is Chandler Parsons....after this season he can sign an offer sheet I believe forcing Hou to match. I kinda hoped we offer him that poison pill offer just to F up Hou cap :man10: i.e. Lin/Asik type contract and if Hou doesn't match hey at least we get a pretty young solid player for the future :man10:

Yeah I really hope we take this approach with RFA's.. I'd try offering a poison pill to Harrison Barnes first, as I think his ceiling is much higher than Parsons & he might be unhappy sharing minutes with Iggy & Klay. I'd try to do the same thing with Avery Bradley too.. I'm sure Doc will crucify me but yes, I'd try to make a similar offer to Larry Sanders if the Bucks aren't offering him huge money.. If we strike out on Lebron/Melo/Paul George I think these are the type of signings we need to make. Add Barnes, Bradley, Sanders.. Say we offer them a combined 24M in the first season with a poison pill added where needed depending on the team we're dealing with.. bring back Kobe & Pau, probably stretch Nash. Nash/Kobe/Barnes/Pau/Sanders/Bradley/Young/Johnson/Farmar as your main rotation guys with Barnes playing some undersized PF like he does in GS.. That's a good all around team that I think Kobe can win rings with as long as he plays like Kobe.
lakersin4

 
Posts: 2377
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:02 pm

Re: Melo AND Bron are Laker targets in 2014 (Ramona pg. 10)

Postby khmrP on Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:49 pm

^^^I dont think you can posion pill 1st rd pick, Lin/Asik weren't 1st rd picks.
Last edited by khmrP on Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
khmrP

 
Posts: 10404
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 10:45 pm

Re: Melo AND Bron are Laker targets in 2014 (Ramona pg. 10)

Postby LAL4EVA on Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:00 pm

LAL4EVA wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:
LAL4EVA wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:
LAL4EVA wrote:Hi guys, been a long time lurker here and occasionally post whenever I have extended time.


From this point you may be right. He used to go to the hoop quite a bit and he even had a decent back to the basket game in Karl's offense. Last year in NY he was just a jump shooter and a streaky one at that. For me that's the biggest problem with his game. He's a jump shooter at this point and in the playoffs not a good one at all.

There are a whole host of reasons I don't what the guy anywhere near the Lakers but based just on his game he's become a one dimensional offensive player and never was a good defender or facilitator. Add in that he's a mental midget that can't control his ego or temper and to me he's one of the more overrated players in the game.


To be fair to him, it’s better to judge the man for what he’s done for almost his entire career versus what he did last year. Which means I’m still looking at him as a player who is extremely capable in the post in Isolation situations. I do agree with you that last year he had a far worse year than what most proclaimed, but that’s just one season. I think they gave him too much freedom if you know what I mean. While he’s not the most mentally tough star in the league, he’d fare better as kind of a 1a or 1b type player. Much like Odom did upon the arrival of Pau, I think Melo would thrive not having that pressure with Kobe and Pau in the fold. He’s not a great defender or a passer, but he’s not as bad as you’re making him sound. He does have the capability to pass out of the post and even be a viable defender in the right defensive schemes, the only question is if he’d be able to get his head in the game and Kobe and Phil might be able to rein him in. I’m not saying this is ideal, but considering our realistic options, I think this is our best one.


If we use that logic to it's conclusion then we must still accept that he's still the punk that punched and ran as well as the one that choked Sasha out of bounds away from the ball.

As for your other thoughts. I don't necessarily agree with Melo having success with other stars in the line-up. He took quarters completely off when playing with a ball dominant Iverson in Denver. Kobe is nearly as dominant at time and since he doesn't move well off the ball or excel at much else other than scoring his value is diminished not enhanced playing with a guy like Kobe. I don't see the Olympic teaming as relevant in this discussion because the quality of opponents is massive vs an 82 game schedule in the NBA.

He's a jump shooting scorer who doesn't do well in the playoffs. He has little in the way of leadership skills, is lacking in basic sportsmanship and has a history of really punkish behavior. If he doesn't have the ball in his hands he's not even as useful as a 2012 MWP.



Unless he punched players and ran for the past 10 years consistently, your interpretation of “my logic” is incorrect. You’re using two incidents to characterize the player/individual that he is. I’m saying that for the greater part of his career, he was a terrific post player, often times going to the rim strong. Last year he didn’t do that, but I think he can given his consistent production in the post the 8 years prior to last year.
I never looked at Iverson as a leader type although he was a great player without a doubt. With Billups, he did very well in the playoffs, which leads me to believe that he needs guidance that our players can provide. Obviously we can all agree that Kobe has been successful in the triangle and during both our championship runs, he shared the post with other players (shaq, pau, bynum, odom), which means that there’s no reason that both can’t work out of the post. His real value to our team woud be that we can have a prolific scorer to pair with Kobe and the cast that we put together. One on one in the post, Melo would be devastating. Team USA stuff is irrelevant since the competition cannot really be compared to the level of talent that we had.


3rd most suspended player and second most in fines over his 10 years...... the examples I used were the bigger ones but by no means the only ones. Just last year in the playoffs he couldn't control himself and got suspended for a playoff game.

Off the ball he is basically useless. No evidence to the contrary exists for him. His shooting performances in the playoffs are not good and he isn't good down the stretch in those situations either.

I still think he has no interest in winning.... he's more interested in leverage and getting a big contract in NYC.... and is the case most of the time.... using LA for that leverage.



Off the top of my head, I can only remember him being suspended 4 times. You seem to have it down exactly, please correct me if I’m wrong, just for my own curiosity.

Seems like we both have different expectations of him. you’re expecting a bonafide superstar on the level of LBJ or KD, I’m expecting more of a Pau type of player who would have the chance to turn into a winner on a team with leaders and a top coach. 4 years ago if you told me Z-bo would be a reliable player (except the spurs facepalm in the WCF) I’d call you crazy.
LAL4EVA

 
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:57 pm

Re: Melo AND Bron are Laker targets in 2014 (Ramona pg. 10)

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:06 am

LAL4EVA wrote:
Off the top of my head, I can only remember him being suspended 4 times. You seem to have it down exactly, please correct me if I’m wrong, just for my own curiosity.

Seems like we both have different expectations of him. you’re expecting a bonafide superstar on the level of LBJ or KD, I’m expecting more of a Pau type of player who would have the chance to turn into a winner on a team with leaders and a top coach. 4 years ago if you told me Z-bo would be a reliable player (except the spurs facepalm in the WCF) I’d call you crazy.


Total games suspended is different than instances. He's had a few multi-game suspensions.

As for the superstar stuff.... if he wants superstar money.... he needs to be a superstar. Funny you mentioned Pau..... we've made that same mistake with Pau by paying him the 3rd highest salary in the league while he plays at a level far, far below that of a top 3 player.

With the new CBA we can't add max players who aren't leaders. As I've said before..... he's limited in what he offers when he doesn't have the ball in his hands and he's not mentally capable of being a leader on a championship team. Further when he doesn't have the ball or isn't the focus of the offense he doesn't play with any desire or energy to do things to help a team win. You're right about that..... he's done that his entire career and will continue doing so in the future.

I'm also convinced he's not willing to take a dime less than the max going forward. Nothing he's ever done or said leads me to believe he's a "team" guy, rather his actions and comments indicate that it's Melo first, second and third. I still think he's dropping (or his agent ) the "Lakers" out there to get NY to give him a max extension.
"If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

“The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present - and is gravely to be regarded." Dwight Eisenhower

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it" Thomas Sowell
User avatar
Rooscooter

 
Posts: 22531
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:25 pm
Location: Chandler AZ and Andalué

Re: Melo AND Bron are Laker targets in 2014 (Ramona pg. 10)

Postby therealdeal on Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:14 am

khmrP wrote:^^^I dont think you can posion pill 1st rd pick, Lin/Asik weren't 1st rd picks.

The poison pill is all about how much the team is willing to spend on the player and when. You could poison pill any player that's not getting a max deal including 1st Rounders (after their rookie contract of course).
Stu : "Yeah, that's an old fashioned whoopin'."
therealdeal
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 39830
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:03 pm

Re: Melo AND Bron are Laker targets in 2014 (Ramona pg. 10)

Postby revgen on Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:36 am

LAL4EVA wrote:
revgen wrote:
LAL4EVA wrote:To be fair to him, it’s better to judge the man for what he’s done for almost his entire career versus what he did last year.


He's one of the most disappointing postseason players of his generation considering his talent level. That's not just based on last season. That's based on his whole career. Even Lebron, who IMO took way too long to figure out how to perform in the postseason eventually figured it out. Melo is closing in on 30 years old and still doesn't get it.


well if you're expecting Lebron type progress then you're going to be disappointed a lot. I don't think he can carry a team, much like Pau at the time of his acquisition. I look at him as a player that can thrive in a specific system and I think the triangle could be that.

With regards to his past playoffs performances, he's had some good outings when he's not relied upon as the de facto leader. When chauncey was around is an example


1) Triangle?

We're not playing the triangle. We're playing in Mike D'Antoni's offense. The coach Melo didn't get along with in New York, which forced D'Antoni to "resign" from coaching duties.

2) That's the problem. I want us to pick up somebody that we can use now and in the future. Melo is okay if Nash and Kobe are the leaders. Once they're retired, it's downhill from there.
"Every time he’s hurt, he always plays, he always comes through."

- Metta World Peace on teammate Kobe Bryant
revgen
HDTV/Multimedia Guru
 
Posts: 21702
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:53 pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Melo AND Bron are Laker targets in 2014 (Ramona pg. 10)

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:50 am

^^The Triangle at this level has only had success with one coach (who's physically unable to endure coaching full seasons) and two of the best players in the history of the game. It's been tried a lot with little to no success by others.

The Triangle is not coming back IMO..... and if it does winning won't follow.
"If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

“The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present - and is gravely to be regarded." Dwight Eisenhower

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it" Thomas Sowell
User avatar
Rooscooter

 
Posts: 22531
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:25 pm
Location: Chandler AZ and Andalué

Re: Melo AND Bron are Laker targets in 2014 (Ramona pg. 10)

Postby LAL4EVA on Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:35 am

revgen wrote:
LAL4EVA wrote:
revgen wrote:
LAL4EVA wrote:To be fair to him, it’s better to judge the man for what he’s done for almost his entire career versus what he did last year.


He's one of the most disappointing postseason players of his generation considering his talent level. That's not just based on last season. That's based on his whole career. Even Lebron, who IMO took way too long to figure out how to perform in the postseason eventually figured it out. Melo is closing in on 30 years old and still doesn't get it.


well if you're expecting Lebron type progress then you're going to be disappointed a lot. I don't think he can carry a team, much like Pau at the time of his acquisition. I look at him as a player that can thrive in a specific system and I think the triangle could be that.

With regards to his past playoffs performances, he's had some good outings when he's not relied upon as the de facto leader. When chauncey was around is an example


1) Triangle?

We're not playing the triangle. We're playing in Mike D'Antoni's offense. The coach Melo didn't get along with in New York, which forced D'Antoni to "resign" from coaching duties.

2) That's the problem. I want us to pick up somebody that we can use now and in the future. Melo is okay if Nash and Kobe are the leaders. Once they're retired, it's downhill from there.


Well my entire premise depended on being able to bring back phil and use Melo in the triangle. If we don’t have that, I don’t want Melo as I don’t think he’s really a superstar. He’s a perennial all star and there would be conditions in taking him in, favorable contract and Phil. My thing is, realistically speaking, I don’t see us acquiring a true superstar player within the next 2-3 years at the earliest and by that time, our current crew will be long gone. I was presenting this as our best realistic option with our core still intact.

Also, I understand Pau’s contract doesn’t look so good right now, but please respect the man’s contributions for years. He’s been one of the best (if not the best) #2 in the league for 3 years, and we went to the finals all three years and won 2 championships. As far as I’m concerned, Pau deserved that contract with his play and it brought us 3 years of elite basketball. I’m not all for jumping on a guy that has brought so much to our team. He’s not as good and I understand, but I don’t like the fact that guys diminish him so much. That’s the same reason why I don’t mind the team paying Kobe 30mil, the man deserved that and he brought a lot to the team even though no one can claim he’s worth that much on the court. And not sure about you guys, but I and probably mitch and the crew, expected his production to dwindle towards the end of his contract, albeit not this much.
LAL4EVA

 
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:57 pm

Re: Melo AND Bron are Laker targets in 2014 (Ramona pg. 10)

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:10 pm

LAL4EVA wrote:
revgen wrote:
LAL4EVA wrote:
revgen wrote:
LAL4EVA wrote:To be fair to him, it’s better to judge the man for what he’s done for almost his entire career versus what he did last year.


He's one of the most disappointing postseason players of his generation considering his talent level. That's not just based on last season. That's based on his whole career. Even Lebron, who IMO took way too long to figure out how to perform in the postseason eventually figured it out. Melo is closing in on 30 years old and still doesn't get it.


well if you're expecting Lebron type progress then you're going to be disappointed a lot. I don't think he can carry a team, much like Pau at the time of his acquisition. I look at him as a player that can thrive in a specific system and I think the triangle could be that.

With regards to his past playoffs performances, he's had some good outings when he's not relied upon as the de facto leader. When chauncey was around is an example


1) Triangle?

We're not playing the triangle. We're playing in Mike D'Antoni's offense. The coach Melo didn't get along with in New York, which forced D'Antoni to "resign" from coaching duties.

2) That's the problem. I want us to pick up somebody that we can use now and in the future. Melo is okay if Nash and Kobe are the leaders. Once they're retired, it's downhill from there.


Well my entire premise depended on being able to bring back phil and use Melo in the triangle. If we don’t have that, I don’t want Melo as I don’t think he’s really a superstar. He’s a perennial all star and there would be conditions in taking him in, favorable contract and Phil. My thing is, realistically speaking, I don’t see us acquiring a true superstar player within the next 2-3 years at the earliest and by that time, our current crew will be long gone. I was presenting this as our best realistic option with our core still intact.

Also, I understand Pau’s contract doesn’t look so good right now, but please respect the man’s contributions for years. He’s been one of the best (if not the best) #2 in the league for 3 years, and we went to the finals all three years and won 2 championships. As far as I’m concerned, Pau deserved that contract with his play and it brought us 3 years of elite basketball. I’m not all for jumping on a guy that has brought so much to our team. He’s not as good and I understand, but I don’t like the fact that guys diminish him so much. That’s the same reason why I don’t mind the team paying Kobe 30mil, the man deserved that and he brought a lot to the team even though no one can claim he’s worth that much on the court. And not sure about you guys, but I and probably mitch and the crew, expected his production to dwindle towards the end of his contract, albeit not this much.


Bringing Phil back isn't going to happen.... at least at the coaching level.

As for paying a player for past performance.... that's not working out that well for us is it? It wasn't as if Pau was really underpaid in his previous contract either.

Paying Melo for past performance would be even less smart.... The new CBA penalizes teams for this approach. We need to develop internally rather than swinging for the fences in the FA market.
"If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

“The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present - and is gravely to be regarded." Dwight Eisenhower

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it" Thomas Sowell
User avatar
Rooscooter

 
Posts: 22531
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:25 pm
Location: Chandler AZ and Andalué

Re: Melo AND Bron are Laker targets in 2014 (Ramona pg. 10)

Postby revgen on Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:18 pm

Rooscooter wrote:^^The Triangle at this level has only had success with one coach (who's physically unable to endure coaching full seasons) and two of the best players in the history of the game. It's been tried a lot with little to no success by others.

The Triangle is not coming back IMO..... and if it does winning won't follow.


The triangle needs players who can fit, coaches who can coach it, GM's who understand how to acquire the right players, and owners who are willing to commit longterm, not only to the coach, but to the players too. Players can't be coming and going. This kind of approach works at the collegiate level to a certain degree. At the NBA level, it's almost impossible in the modern NBA.

Cleamons didn't work out in Dallas because the player (Kidd) didn't like the system. Phil had the same issue with Jordan his first year, but managed to convince Jordan in the 2nd year. Despite this rough patch, Chicago ownership stood by Phil. In LA, he was close with the owner's daughter despite rough patches with Kobe (he wanted Kobe traded for Kidd of all people, oh the irony) and Jerry West.

Rambis didn't work out because the owner and GM kept changing the roster.

The triangle simply demands too much from NBA franchises.
"Every time he’s hurt, he always plays, he always comes through."

- Metta World Peace on teammate Kobe Bryant
revgen
HDTV/Multimedia Guru
 
Posts: 21702
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:53 pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Melo AND Bron are Laker targets in 2014 (Ramona pg. 10)

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:09 pm

^^Yup.... if it wasn't for Jordan Phil probably wouldn't have made it far as a coach because. He was able to catch lightening in a bottle again with Kobe but history is against the Triangle with those two exceptions at this level.
"If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

“The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present - and is gravely to be regarded." Dwight Eisenhower

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it" Thomas Sowell
User avatar
Rooscooter

 
Posts: 22531
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:25 pm
Location: Chandler AZ and Andalué

Re: Melo AND Bron are Laker targets in 2014 (Ramona pg. 10)

Postby khmrP on Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:01 pm

therealdeal wrote:
khmrP wrote:^^^I dont think you can posion pill 1st rd pick, Lin/Asik weren't 1st rd picks.

The poison pill is all about how much the team is willing to spend on the player and when. You could poison pill any player that's not getting a max deal including 1st Rounders (after their rookie contract of course).

1st rd pick have have set max ext. And pay scale 2nd round picks do not that is why you can poison pill them.
User avatar
khmrP

 
Posts: 10404
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 10:45 pm

Re: Melo AND Bron are Laker targets in 2014 (Ramona pg. 10)

Postby therealdeal on Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:04 pm

khmrP wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
khmrP wrote:^^^I dont think you can posion pill 1st rd pick, Lin/Asik weren't 1st rd picks.

The poison pill is all about how much the team is willing to spend on the player and when. You could poison pill any player that's not getting a max deal including 1st Rounders (after their rookie contract of course).

1st rd pick have have set max ext. And pay scale 2nd round picks do not that is why you can poison pill them.

Well yeah, but they aren't all necessarily going to get that max extension. There's plenty of 1st round picks that won't see that extension and then they'll be available for a poison pill type deal.
Stu : "Yeah, that's an old fashioned whoopin'."
therealdeal
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 39830
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:03 pm

Re: Melo AND Bron are Laker targets in 2014 (Ramona pg. 10)

Postby khmrP on Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:23 am

therealdeal wrote:
khmrP wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
khmrP wrote:^^^I dont think you can posion pill 1st rd pick, Lin/Asik weren't 1st rd picks.

The poison pill is all about how much the team is willing to spend on the player and when. You could poison pill any player that's not getting a max deal including 1st Rounders (after their rookie contract of course).

1st rd pick have have set max ext. And pay scale 2nd round picks do not that is why you can poison pill them.

Well yeah, but they aren't all necessarily going to get that max extension. There's plenty of 1st round picks that won't see that extension and then they'll be available for a poison pill type deal.


dude you dont seem to get it, you can't offer a posion pill to a 1st rd pick even if they dont get the ext. from their current team because 1st rd pick have set max escalating annual salary you can offer them and if a team isn't matching I doubt its a guy thats really gona help us out anyways. Guy like Barnes as that poster mentioned is definetly gona get matched by GSW if not they'll just trade him before then. As for Bradley well, we will see if he's as good as Bos fans hype him up to be now that the team isn't any good anymore.
User avatar
khmrP

 
Posts: 10404
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 10:45 pm

Re: Melo AND Bron are Laker targets in 2014 (Ramona pg. 10)

Postby therealdeal on Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:01 am

I just think we're at two different time periods here.

Barnes contract:

*1st Year- 2,000,000
2nd Year- 2,100,000
3rd Year (T.O.)- 2,250,000
4th Year (T.O.)- 2,500,000

You're somewhere in there where the team can either just keep the guy on a guaranteed contract or exercise his option right? I'm not, I'm past that point. I'm at the point where they might be getting a new contract, just not a max contract. I'm definitely NOT talking about Harrison Barnes.

Well if a team doesn't take his option, then a team can offer a Poison Pill contract. Can't they? What's to stop them if they aren't already under contract or signing a max extension?

*- not real numbers, just an example.
Stu : "Yeah, that's an old fashioned whoopin'."
therealdeal
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 39830
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:03 pm

Previous

Return to Lakers Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests

cron
Advertise Here | Privacy Policy | ©2008 Sculu Sports. Come Strong.