Mike D'Antoni Discussion: RESIGNS AS LAKERS COACH (184)

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby trodgers on Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:27 am

LTLakerFan wrote:Why have I never read the term "Horns" offensive set on CL before. I'd think I would remember that. Never heard the term before. OK so assuming it's me, my problem that I haven't heard it..... how long has it been around and what teams use it a lot? Seems like a pretty good idea some of the time when Pau and Dwight are in there together.

I don't think it was in the Mike Brown play book, but commentators have mentioned it.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Rooscooter on Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:33 am

MDA isn't dumb nor is he overly rigid in his rotations, however he is pretty rigid in his philosophy of how he wants to play. His philosophy needs different players to be as successful as it can be.

Guys like Pau and Howard consuming 20 to 25 possessions a game isn't really what he wants or what he has had success with. A face up tweener at the Center and a stretch PF would fit his philosophy perfectly so he has to adjust to fit Dwight into his system.

Having Nash back will help that quite a bit but Pau still seems the odd man out if this system is to succeed IMHO.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby karacha on Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:36 am

"Horns" is used in European basketball a lot. It's not complicated, it works if you have guys who know how to set screens, and a couple of wings who can shoot the ball. It should work relatively well for this team, and Nash needs zero time to run it. I'm only concerned about Pau's role, but we'll wait and see.

http://www.coachesclipboard.net/HornsOffense.html

I used to run something like this long ago. I would get my main post guy (one of the "horns") involved all the time; he would get great opportunities under the basket, or he'd kick it out to me for 3. Or I could swing it to the side to one of the bigger shooters, but you can do a lot of sets from this.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby LTLakerFan on Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:46 am

Thanks!
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby The Rock on Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:35 am

https://twitter.com/ZephidFB_G/status/283258163698991105

MDA deserves a TON of credit for coming up with a scheme that maximized our best 5 players, as shown by @BallReasons at SS&R


Heres a link of each play in 4th and OT broken down, if y'all are interested

http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2012/12/24/3799540/breaking-down-the-lakers-overtime-victory-against-the-warriors
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Rooscooter on Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:39 am

karacha wrote:"Horns" is used in European basketball a lot. It's not complicated, it works if you have guys who know how to set screens, and a couple of wings who can shoot the ball. It should work relatively well for this team, and Nash needs zero time to run it. I'm only concerned about Pau's role, but we'll wait and see.

http://www.coachesclipboard.net/HornsOffense.html

I used to run something like this long ago. I would get my main post guy (one of the "horns") involved all the time; he would get great opportunities under the basket, or he'd kick it out to me for 3. Or I could swing it to the side to one of the bigger shooters, but you can do a lot of sets from this.


Yeah... that's similar to what MDA seems to want to do.... our forwards aren't necessarily made for this type of system but MWP seems to be adapting while who knows what Pau is doing these days. If we could move Pau for the right kind of PF and a Wing that can shoot and play defense we would seemingly have the pieces.... now do we have the time to get it all together before the playoffs is the question.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby karacha on Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:54 pm

MWP can easily do it, but Pau... I'm not quite sold on it. Dwight should also adapt easily to this. But I don't know if there's a PF available to replace Pau in this system. This system is difficult to defend if you have the right pieces.

Jamison is obviously out of the picture for some reason; maybe because he can't play defense, I don't know. He's also not a typical shooter, but he's a lot more mobile then Pau and he's certainly big enough for the position.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Doc Brown on Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:09 pm

I can see why the Lakers are looking for another wing shooter....

If you run that Horns offense with Meeks and another sniper in the corner, the Nash/D12 pick and roll would be very difficult to stop. There is just too much space to cover and you can't just let D12 get a free lane to the rim or Steve Nash a free lane to shoot.

Put MWP where Pau is supposed to be and he can space it out to the 3 point line.

Hopefully we start running that set more often when we get into halfcourt situations. I don't like ISO's or straight up ISO post plays.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby karacha on Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:50 pm

Doc Brown wrote:Put MWP where Pau is supposed to be and he can space it out to the 3 point line.


That's exactly what MDA is doing with Metta. With great results if I might add. But that leaves one odd man out -- Gasol. If he could simply play center, he'd be very valuable, because him setting a pick for Nash is deadly. But the only time he can play the 5 is when Dwight is in foul trouble or is resting. And Dwight does not need to rest much.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Doc Brown on Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:42 pm

karacha wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:Put MWP where Pau is supposed to be and he can space it out to the 3 point line.


That's exactly what MDA is doing with Metta. With great results if I might add. But that leaves one odd man out -- Gasol. If he could simply play center, he'd be very valuable, because him setting a pick for Nash is deadly. But the only time he can play the 5 is when Dwight is in foul trouble or is resting. And Dwight does not need to rest much.


That's why I think he will be here up until Jan. 15 and then when everyone around the league is free to be moved, we will see Pau moved. The spot where Gasol is playing most of his minutes (PF) is being played by someone else that can perform the role of that position on offense more effectively.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Punk-101 on Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:34 pm

^^

That, and Jordan Hill has shown to be more than adequate at the backup C.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:46 pm

Unless we are getting back legitimate talent for Pau I don't see a reason to trade him. He's still too good to waste on a salary dump or something and we can't trade him for some average players who might not contribute anything. But that's what makes it so hard to move him
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Lakerjones on Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:53 pm

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:Unless we are getting back legitimate talent for Pau I don't see a reason to trade him. He's still too good to waste on a salary dump or something and we can't trade him for some average players who might not contribute anything. But that's what makes it so hard to move him


^^ Agreed. Plus with all the coach turnover, I think we need some roster stability right now and going forward to the playoffs. There isn't a whole lot of time left for the team to develop some chemistry and identity.

I'm hoping they revisit Pau and his contract this summer for the reasons stated. He's simply worth much more at that time as an expiring. I think any move right now will just make for more confusion and less chance to win it all. Unless some miracle deal is sitting in the wing like Pau for Love. But I highly doubt that.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby wcsoldier81 on Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:46 am

Christmas joke ?

Mike Trudell @LakersReporter 1 minute ago
LAL will start same group as last game: Nash-Morris-Kobe-Gasol-Howard. Morris will technically start guarding 'Melo, pushing him into help.

Read more: http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html#ixzz2G5gmjxGR
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby kenzo on Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:50 am

wcsoldier81 wrote:Christmas joke ?

Mike Trudell @LakersReporter 1 minute ago
LAL will start same group as last game: Nash-Morris-Kobe-Gasol-Howard. Morris will technically start guarding 'Melo, pushing him into help.

Read more: http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html#ixzz2G5gmjxGR

:man3: Looks like we have MWP only for his offense now.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby The Original 81 on Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:57 am

wcsoldier81 wrote:Christmas joke ?

Mike Trudell @LakersReporter 1 minute ago
LAL will start same group as last game: Nash-Morris-Kobe-Gasol-Howard. Morris will technically start guarding 'Melo, pushing him into help.

Read more: http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html#ixzz2G5gmjxGR


What the... :man3:
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby wcsoldier81 on Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:02 pm

Why would you create a such mismatch to start the game against a team which can score in its sleep ?

Melo in the post... we are forced to double = three after three for NY
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Ariza3 on Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:08 pm

this is the stupidest coaching decision I've seen. starting a rookie pg to guard melo?? wtf....what happened to start metta for certain matchups. metta starts to guard kd Lebron and melo. is it that hard?

melo is gunna destroy Morris and have another huge 20+ first quarter....and if we double an easy 3 for them since they move the ball so well. Dantoni doesn't care about defense at all....did he not watch the last game?

metta feeling good about himself recently and I'm sure pumped for the game. can't e good for him to not start guarding melo. Morris is gunna get destroyed AND in foul trouble
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby thkthebest on Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:17 pm

wcsoldier81 wrote:Christmas joke ?

Mike Trudell @LakersReporter 1 minute ago
LAL will start same group as last game: Nash-Morris-Kobe-Gasol-Howard. Morris will technically start guarding 'Melo, pushing him into help.

Read more: http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html#ixzz2G5gmjxGR

What in the world? Carmelo plays PF. Our PG, Morris, will somehow defend him. Who is everyone else going to guard?

I can see Nash on Raymond. Dwight on Chandler. Kobe on Brewer. Gasol on Kidd...? Or will Kobe defend Kidd, which puts Gasol on Brewer...? :man3:
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby wcsoldier81 on Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:25 pm

Gasol will be on Brewer ...can give him space , not a shooter ... still Morris on Melo is laughable and will probably cost us a bad start... what's next Meeks on Lebron ?
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Ariza3 on Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:28 pm

mike brown may have been a clown but he would have been smart enough to start metta on melo for the entire game and match him minute for minute. Dantoni prob just cost is the game as melo
will just go off like last time and that deficit will never be overcome

lakers Xmas tradition of losing continues
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Lakerjones on Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:10 pm

I understood starting Morris against GS, but not matching up against Carmelo. Very strange.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby lakersin4 on Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:56 pm

So glad we hired this guy. Getting this type of play out of Nash is going to elevate everyone.. Who cares who he starts.. He's finding winning units during the game. I like where this team is going.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby karacha on Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:57 pm

Well, hopefully he'll show what he can do now. 5 in a row, Nash is back. He's drawing some nice plays... I can't complain too much.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Weezy on Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:02 pm

Nobody is happier to have Nash back than 'Antoni.
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