Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

^^^

Gave this guy a pass thinking he'd adjust knowing he was aware of the physical limitations of his personnel along with their age. No he has not. Disappointing.

If not Phil, then JVG.
Pau ain't the problem...the offense and rotations are.
The defense isn't the problem...the offense is and how it leads to poor defensive principles.

If any of you think otherwise, you ain't watching these games close enough.

And like Howard this summer if D'Antoni is still at the helm....I'm gone (in less than 7 seconds).

Vasashi17 wrote:If not Phil, then JVG.
Pau ain't the problem...the offense and rotations are.
The defense isn't the problem...the offense is and how it leads to poor defensive principles.

If any of you think otherwise, you ain't watching these games close enough.

And like Howard this summer if D'Antoni is still at the helm....I'm gone (in less than 7 seconds).

you'll be missed

Vasashi17 wrote:If not Phil, then JVG.
Pau ain't the problem...the offense and rotations are.
The defense isn't the problem...the offense is and how it leads to poor defensive principles.

If any of you think otherwise, you ain't watching these games close enough.

And like Howard this summer if D'Antoni is still at the helm....I'm gone (in less than 7 seconds).

Vasashi17 wrote:If not Phil, then JVG.
Pau ain't the problem...the offense and rotations are.
The defense isn't the problem...the offense is and how it leads to poor defensive principles.

If any of you think otherwise, you ain't watching these games close enough.

And like Howard this summer if D'Antoni is still at the helm....I'm gone (in less than 7 seconds).

It's funny I don't think most people realize this. It is the offense & pace leading to the poor D that ails us.

People don't realize, taking & missing 3's results in TRANSITION BUCKETS (ding ding ding) for the other team. We also rank among the poorest in transition D.

Having MDA, playing up-tempo, & relying on the 3 is quite probably the worst thing for this team. We need to slow down and run a half court offense. That way, teams don't get out on the break against us.

Sure, we have our defensive liabilities apart from this. I mean, even in the half court we look putrid sometimes. Guys get beat left and right. But overall we would win more games if we had a better offensive game plan.

Please give me Brian Shaw.

Chillbongo wrote:

Vasashi17 wrote:If not Phil, then JVG.
Pau ain't the problem...the offense and rotations are.
The defense isn't the problem...the offense is and how it leads to poor defensive principles.

If any of you think otherwise, you ain't watching these games close enough.

And like Howard this summer if D'Antoni is still at the helm....I'm gone (in less than 7 seconds).

It's funny I don't think most people realize this. It is the offense & pace leading to the poor D that ails us.

People don't realize, taking & missing 3's results in TRANSITION BUCKETS (ding ding ding) for the other team. We also rank among the poorest in transition D.

Having MDA, playing up-tempo, & relying on the 3 is quite probably the worst thing for this team. We need to slow down and run a half court offense. That way, teams don't get out on the break against us.

Sure, we have our defensive liabilities apart from this. I mean, even in the half court we look putrid sometimes. Guys get beat left and right. But overall we would win more games if we had a better offensive game plan.

That's what Mike Brown did last season. And we were a 2nd round exit. Slowing the game down to a crawl to hide our inadequacies on transition defense isn't the answer.

Also, we can't slow the game down when Pau can't back down Andre Miller of all people and D12 gets the ball stripped almost every single time he posts up.

Chillbongo wrote:

Vasashi17 wrote:If not Phil, then JVG.
Pau ain't the problem...the offense and rotations are.
The defense isn't the problem...the offense is and how it leads to poor defensive principles.

If any of you think otherwise, you ain't watching these games close enough.

And like Howard this summer if D'Antoni is still at the helm....I'm gone (in less than 7 seconds).

It's funny I don't think most people realize this. It is the offense & pace leading to the poor D that ails us.

People don't realize, taking & missing 3's results in TRANSITION BUCKETS (ding ding ding) for the other team. We also rank among the poorest in transition D.

Having MDA, playing up-tempo, & relying on the 3 is quite probably the worst thing for this team. We need to slow down and run a half court offense. That way, teams don't get out on the break against us.

Sure, we have our defensive liabilities apart from this. I mean, even in the half court we look putrid sometimes. Guys get beat left and right. But overall we would win more games if we had a better offensive game plan.

oh stop... you are making way to much sense..... you must want to get flamed bad

This team is very average in the defense end when set as well but I would be willing to bet they are better than some make it out to be because they factor in points in the paint and transition as defensive issues.
Transition opportunities given up (and generally finished in the paint) is about turnovers, long rebounds and bad floor balance form when shots go up within the flow of the offense OR a SYSTEM that is actually asking for that bad floor balance with offense only in mind. 2 guys standing still in the corners or just sliding along the perimeter while 2 guys run 2 man action moving towards the hoop is not good floor balance..... add the fact that this team is actually not a jump shooting team and is older = very predictable results.

The problems early in the year was because of the learning curb within a very good system, that utilizes both player and ball movement with screens to set up mid range looks, which resulted in a high amount of turnovers....again a basketball guy would expect this a bit early in the season...... now we are just running a piss poor fit of a system getting just as many if not more turnovers along with bad floor spacing that is responsible for both ways because panic hit LA.

This team should be able to outscore its average half court defense but it can't outscore both it's average defense and the easy transition looks it gives up by spotty offensive philosophy relative to roster.

revgen wrote:

Chillbongo wrote:

Vasashi17 wrote:If not Phil, then JVG.
Pau ain't the problem...the offense and rotations are.
The defense isn't the problem...the offense is and how it leads to poor defensive principles.

If any of you think otherwise, you ain't watching these games close enough.

And like Howard this summer if D'Antoni is still at the helm....I'm gone (in less than 7 seconds).

It's funny I don't think most people realize this. It is the offense & pace leading to the poor D that ails us.

People don't realize, taking & missing 3's results in TRANSITION BUCKETS (ding ding ding) for the other team. We also rank among the poorest in transition D.

Having MDA, playing up-tempo, & relying on the 3 is quite probably the worst thing for this team. We need to slow down and run a half court offense. That way, teams don't get out on the break against us.

Sure, we have our defensive liabilities apart from this. I mean, even in the half court we look putrid sometimes. Guys get beat left and right. But overall we would win more games if we had a better offensive game plan.

That's what Mike Brown did last season. And we were a 2nd round exit. Slowing the game down to a crawl to hide our inadequacies on transition defense isn't the answer.

Also, we can't slow the game down when Pau can't back down Andre Miller of all people and D12 gets the ball stripped almost every single time he posts up.

I agree with the second point but not the first.

Brown did slow it to a crawl but he used again an offense designed with little player movement....

this year he got it right and went to the Princeton, which would have had a good chance to be running smoothly right about now by the way. Unfortunately panic hit LA with early struggles and they panic right back to the stretch 4 concept that had them failing last year only they thought Nash would solve all those issues..... same no player movement with a little more different looks at 2 player action under the king of tempo....whoopty doo.

It's not that I didn't agree with Brown getting canned.... but did we have to dump the Princeton two? really...did we?

Just wanna ask why Jamison is watching on the bench
Mda could not change his game plan to get gasol involved, not the three pointer pls .

These injuries might be a good thing.. Especially Dwight.. MDA is gonna have no choice but to play Pau in the post more when he returns in a couple games.. Jamison will also have a chance to work his way back in the rotation. If Pau plays like he's capable of playing, we can win without Dwight.

lakersin4 wrote:These injuries might be a good thing.. Especially Dwight.. MDA is gonna have no choice but to play Pau in the post more when he returns in a couple games.. Jamison will also have a chance to work his way back in the rotation. If Pau plays like he's capable of playing, we can win without Dwight.

Pau is out too.

So some of you think our set halfcourt D is fine ?

I have to pull the "obviously you're not watching the games closely enough " card too then

wcsoldier81 wrote:So some of you think our set halfcourt D is fine ?

I have to pull the "obviously you're not watching the games closely enough " card too then

Well i never used a line like that....

I don't thinking watching means anymore than understanding so the watching depends on your understanding and can only take you so far. You need both to get it....just watching is useless and guys who usually use these type of lines in debates on people are generally really good at just watching.

The half court in my eyes is very, very average at best......... not good enough to make up for a piss poor offensive philosophy that is turning over the ball and is creating long rebounds while having an unbalanced floor.

Do they miss rotations in the half court... you bet.... help the helper is none existent at times

Do some of the starters roam too much in the half court...again you bet, trying to do too much

Is our transition issues actually all defense.....nope..... that's mostly the offense and bad floor spacing relative to when shots go up.

Can this team afford to play trying to up the tempo when they are one of the worse transition "defenses" in the league? absolutely not..... more flawed offensive touches will do nothing to compensate for our issues in the open floor, if anything it makes it worse.

wcsoldier81 wrote:So some of you think our set halfcourt D is fine ?

I have to pull the "obviously you're not watching the games closely enough " card too then

You can't be serious?

We are scoring nearly 100 a game, but giving up more points...why?
Cause our possessions have gone up...leading to defending more possessions for a team that has a 7-8 man deep rotation and is old as ish (according to Kobe). Obviously the opponent is also getting more possessions off turnovers and scoring much quicker (ie. transition buckets). And how is that happening?

That all stems from the offensive philosophy we have. Also if you play guard heavy minutes...it's those guards that will need to find a way to conserve energy and if its always in their hands on offense, then guess what...it's on D where they can take some time off.

The defense suffers so much due to the offensive principle. Maybe it's a good thing you can't see that, cause the view isn't pleasant!

Vasashi17 wrote:

wcsoldier81 wrote:So some of you think our set halfcourt D is fine ?

I have to pull the "obviously you're not watching the games closely enough " card too then

You can't be serious?

We are scoring nearly 100 a game, but giving up more points...why?
Cause our possessions have gone up...leading to defending more possessions for a team that has a 7-8 man deep rotation and is old as ish (according to Kobe). Obviously the opponent is also getting more possessions off turnovers and scoring much quicker (ie. transition buckets). And how is that happening?

That all stems from the offensive philosophy we have. Also if you play guard heavy minutes...it's those guards that will need to find a way to conserve energy and if its always in their hands on offense, then guess what...it's on D where they can take some time off.

The defense suffers so much due to the offensive principle. Maybe it's a good thing you can't see that, cause the view isn't pleasant!

oh stop Vash...... you know that makes too darn sense

the 2 constants between Brown last year and MDA now is responsible floor balance and off ball player movement..... their was/is none..... with Brown last year it was ISOs with a lot of standing around.... now it's 2 man ball with a lot of standing around...... many outside their real ranges causing long rebounds and at the furthest possible spots on the court (the corners or sliding around near them) to help defend transition ball and slow the ball down making it move laterally instead of North-South.

constant here..... bad perimeter shooting team that is older just standing around.....

Brown's best adjustment EVER was bringing in the Princeton ..... an offense designed to work off of various screen action with lots of player movement to set up mid range looks and an offense that excels with a good Passing big (cough, cough Gasol) and bigs that set good screens (cough, cough Howard)

but of course he got canned basically for the only good decision he made while he was here...... sad really.

Not that I wasn;t for the canning........ but this coach and scrap the Princeton? really?

Vasashi17 wrote:

wcsoldier81 wrote:So some of you think our set halfcourt D is fine ?

I have to pull the "obviously you're not watching the games closely enough " card too then

You can't be serious?

We are scoring nearly 100 a game, but giving up more points...why?
Cause our possessions have gone up...leading to defending more possessions for a team that has a 7-8 man deep rotation and is old as ish (according to Kobe). Obviously the opponent is also getting more possessions off turnovers and scoring much quicker (ie. transition buckets). And how is that happening?

That all stems from the offensive philosophy we have. Also if you play guard heavy minutes...it's those guards that will need to find a way to conserve energy and if its always in their hands on offense, then guess what...it's on D where they can take some time off.

The defense suffers so much due to the offensive principle. Maybe it's a good thing you can't see that, cause the view isn't pleasant!

I don't disagree ... however saying our D is so bad ONLY because of offensive principles is a huge stretch and I can't agree with that ...

Our D was bad with Brown as a coach ( transition d was terrible too), a coach who preached D and halfcourt B-Ball on O all day long .

Once again I'm not saying MDA was a good hire because it's not the case but when you lose so many games against bad to average teams , the pbs go beyond coaching and are personnel related too.

MC wrote:

Vasashi17 wrote:

wcsoldier81 wrote:So some of you think our set halfcourt D is fine ?

I have to pull the "obviously you're not watching the games closely enough " card too then

You can't be serious?

We are scoring nearly 100 a game, but giving up more points...why?
Cause our possessions have gone up...leading to defending more possessions for a team that has a 7-8 man deep rotation and is old as ish (according to Kobe). Obviously the opponent is also getting more possessions off turnovers and scoring much quicker (ie. transition buckets). And how is that happening?

That all stems from the offensive philosophy we have. Also if you play guard heavy minutes...it's those guards that will need to find a way to conserve energy and if its always in their hands on offense, then guess what...it's on D where they can take some time off.

The defense suffers so much due to the offensive principle. Maybe it's a good thing you can't see that, cause the view isn't pleasant!

oh stop Vash...... you know that makes too darn sense

the 2 constants between Brown last year and MDA now is responsible floor balance and off ball player movement..... their was/is none..... with Brown last year it was ISOs with a lot of standing around.... now it's 2 man ball with a lot of standing around......

constant here..... bad perimeter shooting team that is older just standing around.....

Brown's best adjustment EVER was bringing in the Princeton ..... an offense designed to work off of various screen action with lots of player movement to set up mid range looks and an offense that excels with a good Passing big (cough, cough Gasol) and bigs that set good screens (cough, cough Howard)

but of course he got canned basically for the only good decision he made while he was here...... sad really.

Not that I wasn;t for the canning........ but this coach and scrap the Princeton? really?

Our huge and constant pb has been defending teams running high PNR and spacing the floor with shooters ... mainly because our players are too old and slow to help and recover ....

Dallas killed us like this in 2011 ... you know when Phil was the head coach and we were running the triangle .. offense has nothing to do with this pb ...

Our perimeter players can't defend off ball movements nor do a decent job at staying with today's NBA quick guards on halfcourt situations ...

We could have had Adelman. A respected coach...Then Jim Bufoon happened.

wcsoldier81 wrote:

MC wrote:

Vasashi17 wrote:

wcsoldier81 wrote:So some of you think our set halfcourt D is fine ?

I have to pull the "obviously you're not watching the games closely enough " card too then

You can't be serious?

We are scoring nearly 100 a game, but giving up more points...why?
Cause our possessions have gone up...leading to defending more possessions for a team that has a 7-8 man deep rotation and is old as ish (according to Kobe). Obviously the opponent is also getting more possessions off turnovers and scoring much quicker (ie. transition buckets). And how is that happening?

That all stems from the offensive philosophy we have. Also if you play guard heavy minutes...it's those guards that will need to find a way to conserve energy and if its always in their hands on offense, then guess what...it's on D where they can take some time off.

The defense suffers so much due to the offensive principle. Maybe it's a good thing you can't see that, cause the view isn't pleasant!

oh stop Vash...... you know that makes too darn sense

the 2 constants between Brown last year and MDA now is responsible floor balance and off ball player movement..... their was/is none..... with Brown last year it was ISOs with a lot of standing around.... now it's 2 man ball with a lot of standing around......

constant here..... bad perimeter shooting team that is older just standing around.....

Brown's best adjustment EVER was bringing in the Princeton ..... an offense designed to work off of various screen action with lots of player movement to set up mid range looks and an offense that excels with a good Passing big (cough, cough Gasol) and bigs that set good screens (cough, cough Howard)

but of course he got canned basically for the only good decision he made while he was here...... sad really.

Not that I wasn;t for the canning........ but this coach and scrap the Princeton? really?

Our huge and constant pb has been defending teams running high PNR and spacing the floor with shooters ... mainly because our players are too old and slow to help and recover ....

Dallas killed us like this in 2011 ... you know when Phil was the head coach and we were running the triangle .. offense has nothing to do with this pb ...

Our perimeter players can't defend off ball movements nor do a decent job at staying with today's NBA quick guards on halfcourt situations ...

A good perimeter shooting team has only beat this team once playing the right way for this team in the playoffs..... the last 2 years has been this team trying to force what it is not built to be.

My philosophy and the one that has been prominent in basketball is you defend inside out...... not outside in.

This works really well if your offense isn't so poorly designed that it allows easy transition hoops based not only a lack of athleticism but a lack of shooting and a lack of an educated idea about responsible floor balance.

With a team with size you run an offense that works players off of screens..... you , know..... it's called off ball movement. That is how you wear down the athletic small ball designed teams with your assets in SIZE while creating mid range shots for less athletic players of your own....... You wear them down with efficient offense out of that and it goes a long way to taking away their legs that are needed for getting out in transition and chucking up perimeter shots. Standing around spacing the perimeter is junior league, checkers while playing a game of chess, kinda coaching......... the kind of ball designed around 1 high-school star and a bunch of watered down 1 dimensional average dudes.

That is using your Bigs without having to ISO out of the post or P&R with bad shooting spacers. You know.... that Princeton is based on those exact premisses ....... I had no problem firing the coach but scraping the Princeton was asinine IMO, especially that early in the season.

again MDA, like Brown last year...... are checkers players and there is nothing more checkers than relying on ISO or pick and role as your base while everyone else watches.

I'm going to guess....

Nash / Duhon
Morris / Meeks
Kobe / Ebanks or Clark
MWP / Jamison
Sacre / MWP

Weezy wrote:2.'Antoni will not, and should not be fired. I hate the hiring, I don't like him as a coach, but you cannot hire an NBA coach to what was it, at least a 3 or 4 year contract, and fire him after 23 games. You can't do it, a coach deserves more time than that to at least prove himself. The franchise would look like a joke if they did that, some coaches would probably never want to come here after seeing it, and they'd be paying 2 coaches to NOT coach, ridiculous.

Yeap my mind is blown....why did we give him a 3 year deal? Why?

No seriously, how was this a rational decision? Someone who understands owning an NBA team & GM-ing better than me, please explain.

Wouldn't a one year + team option make so much more sense?