Mike D'Antoni Discussion: RESIGNS AS LAKERS COACH (184)

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby MC on Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:43 am

why are people suggesting that MDA is a better coach than Brown?......

That is hog wash, he's every much as bad as Brown if not worse because at least Brown was flexible enough to introduce a new offensive philosophy and bring guys in to teach it....... MDAs stubborn/inflexible with horrid rotations......... I don't see anything that suggests this guy is any better than Brown, as a matter of fact the evidence the last couple years in Phoenix and post Suns days points towards just the opposite IMO.

Just goes to show the Buss family is nothing more than a bunch of shoot from the hip kind of guys that have been fortunate............. they don't have a clue about the game of basketball itself and that really has shown since they've decided to use more executive power within the FO and basketball operations......... I feel bad for Mitch.
"If the wolf is the strength of the pack, the pack is the strength of the wolf"
User avatar
MC

 
Posts: 4374
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 2:54 pm

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Ariza3 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:13 am

still can't believe Jim Buss didn't hire Phil. He put his own personal problems ahead of the team's success. Sure the triangle would be tough for this team to learn considering how the Princeton went. but that was Mike Brown teaching it and now it's Dantoni teaching his system to a bunch of old guys. If anyone could get this team to play together and as a real unified team it would be Phil triangle or not. at this point it isn't but the guys playing together and believing they can win.

Dantoni better do something quick he keeps canceling practice which I don't understand. it's like him and his brother are just riding this season to the bank and don't care anymore. Mike Browns offense catered to Bynum and would have to Dwight too. it was slower and sometimes boring but they played defense better than they had in years. Dantoni's system caters to fast young payers and shooters. none of which we have outside of Meeks IMO. Phil would have been perfect and it's unreal Jim didn't hire him.

Also, looking back...that CP3 thing really did put us back
Image
User avatar
Ariza3

 
Posts: 4701
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:28 pm

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Lakeshow24 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:34 am

MC wrote:why are people suggesting that MDA is a better coach than Brown?......

That is hog wash, he's every much as bad as Brown if not worse because at least Brown was flexible enough to introduce a new offensive philosophy and bring guys in to teach it....... MDAs stubborn/inflexible with horrid rotations......... I don't see anything that suggests this guy is any better than Brown, as a matter of fact the evidence the last couple years in Phoenix and post Suns days points towards just the opposite IMO.

Just goes to show the Buss family is nothing more than a bunch of shoot from the hip kind of guys that have been fortunate............. they don't have a clue about the game of basketball itself and that really has shown since they've decided to use more executive power within the FO and basketball operations......... I feel bad for Mitch.


Very sad, that the disaster O'Antoni has been actually makes me want Mike Brown back. Although Mike was clueless offensively, at least he was intelligent enough to try something called flexibility. I respect his willingness to seek a structured offensive system because he was aware of his weaknesses and wanted to try something different. At least he was a good enough cheerleader to at least motivate guys to play at times. I haven't seen anything humble about Antoni other than believing his shoot/brick/get lucky and win when hot is the best way to win.

And before people go pointing at the preseason, that season doesn't matter. A 1-5 sample size also isn't much either. Antoni is about to lose a few more games for us over the coarse of the next week. :freak2:

Edit: oh yeah, don't overanalyze my pro Mike Brown comments. I don't want him either. I want PHIL
UCLA, Los Angeles, CA. Born and Raised.
In Dr. Buss I Truss!
THE ORIGINATOR OF: "Call It From Heaven Chick!"
Image
"To be removed if the Lakers make the playoffs." Well, I removed it for an hour and decided to put it back. I have to be honest.
User avatar
Lakeshow24

 
Posts: 4635
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby thisbjgz on Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:13 am


MEMPHIS, Tenn. – Beyond the personal animus and the uncertainty over his willingness to endure the job's grind, the biggest issue Lakers vice president Jim Buss had with choosing Phil Jackson over Mike D'Antoni as head coach centered on the consequences for Steve Nash. With no use for this point guard in the triangle offense, Buss's fear was that Jackson would've pushed to move Nash out, sources said.

Buss passed on the Lakers' glorious championship legacy to attach his franchise to the desert mirage of D'Antoni and Nash, a reunion tour born of a one-dimensional, gimmick offense and a point guard pushing 39 years old.

"The way this turns out," one league source connected to the hiring process said, "you've chosen not only Steve Nash over [Pau] Gasol, but maybe over Gasol and Dwight [Howard]." Mike D'Antoni's Lakers haven't won a road game since Dec. 22 vs. Golden State. (EFE)

These Lakers are missing the athleticism and perimeter quickness to contend for a championship. This 106-93 loss to the Memphis Grizzlies on Wednesday at FedEx Forum was one more installment in a debacle of a season that the mere presence of D'Antoni worsens every day.

The Lakers are a flat-lined, free-falling folly, an embarrassment of excess, a mangle of mismatched and non-connective parts. Whatever confrontational message Kobe Bryant delivered to Howard in a team meeting reported by the Los Angeles Times on Wednesday morning, make no mistake: The Bryant-Howard dynamic is the most minimal of the Lakers' issues.

[Related: Dwight Howard suffers another shoulder injury]

Under Jackson, the Lakers would've played through Gasol, Howard and Bryant in the post, would've dictated terms through the strengths of the franchise's Hall of Fame players. Under Jackson, the Lakers would've had a leader of men to gather them out of this rubble.

Gasol could go in a trade come mid-February, and Howard – if faced with a Lakers future that includes D'Antoni – could leave the Lakers come July in free agency.

Buss doubled down on the wrong coach, and wrong player. D'Antoni and Nash are busts, unable to bring the systematic and connective threads to a lineup that they were charged to regenerate. As far back out of the playoffs as these Lakers have dropped, here's the most disturbing truth: Los Angeles is closer to the drop-dead bottom of the Western Conference with Phoenix and New Orleans – three games – than they are climbing four games to reach the eighth spot in the Western Conference playoffs.

The Lakers haven't won a game outside of Staples Center in a month. These Lakers resemble D'Antoni in every way: Mumbling, soft and shrouded in marketed mythology.

"We've got an All-Star team," D'Antoni said. "Have you ever watched an All-Star Game? It's God-awful because everybody gets the ball, they go one-on-one and then they play no defense. That's our team."

D'Antoni is far stronger with the glib quotes than he is substantive solutions.

Howard declared himself "immature" for marching around the locker room after a loss to the Chicago Bulls, and insisting that reporters and hangers-on study the stat sheet to understand his frustration. Bryant did challenge him in a team meeting on Wednesday morning, but he's done that often this season. Howard needs Bryant to play that part, because D'Antoni has forever been part-passive aggressive and fully non-confrontational.

A shoulder injury knocked Dwight Howard out of Wednesday's game in Memphis. (CBS Sports Network)Howard is 26 years old, fresh off back surgery and struggling with a torn labrum that resurfaced Wednesday against the Grizzlies. Howard appeared to be in significant pain, couldn't make a shot, nor properly pursue rebounds. The Lakers will have him examined on Thursday in Los Angeles, but one source insisted that it didn't appear to be a significant injury.

This has rapidly turned into a lost season for Howard, but it would be foolish to declare his Lakers career a lost cause. For those who've called the Lakers on Howard's availability – the Dallas Mavericks and the Atlanta Hawks – the message has been unmistakable: Howard isn't available, nor will that change before the February deadline.

[Related: Hornets to make name change to Pelicans official]

Bryant won't' chase Howard out of here, but multiple sources tell Yahoo! Sports that the only issue that would give Howard pause on re-signing with the Lakers would be D'Antoni. In the end, D'Antoni is a coach who fundamentally doesn't believe in post play, who sees franchise centers as intrusive cloggers of the lane.

As New York Knicks coach, D'Antoni issued a clear stance in organizational discussions on a possible pursuit of Howard: He wasn't a fan. He told Knicks front-office staff stories about how the elders of USA Basketball preferred Tyson Chandler to Howard, and that the Knicks would be wise to adopt that thinking, a source with knowledge of the conversations told Yahoo! Sports.

The best thing to ever happen to Howard's career was Stan Van Gundy coming into his life in Orlando. He pushed him, tested him and brought out the best in Howard. In Los Angeles, Bryant plays the part now. They were never destined to have a close relationship. Bryant can't tolerate the tone that Howard sets, the clowning on the floor, the grabbing of the microphone on team charter flights to do impressions, the locker room revelry.

Nevertheless, these Lakers are doomed without Howard dominating on defense. Hours before telling D'Antoni to get him out of Wednesday night's loss with a recurrence of the labrum injury that cost him three games earlier this month, Howard had left that morning team meeting apologetic and promising to redirect his frustrations on offense into a disposition of defensive dominance.

The Lakers understand that Los Angeles gives everything Howard wants to be a global star, gives him the guaranteed of a five-year, $100 million extension this summer. They don't believe he'll walk, and yet as one source tied to the Lakers and Howard says: "Even if they're right, and Dwight stays, do you want Dwight unhappy and feeling uninvolved with D'Antoni?"

[Related: George Karl calls out JaVale McGee]

For the Lakers to fire D'Antoni with three years left on his new contract – just after they fired Mike Brown with three years left – would leave them buried with $25 million in coaching payouts. And then, who do you get? Forget Jackson. That can't happen now. Funny, but everyone on the Lakers knows that the best week this team played happened to be under Bernie Bickerstaff, who simplified the offense, played traditional sets and had the Lakers hustling on defense in winning four of five games in November.

Nevertheless, D'Antoni has marginalized Gasol, leaving him livid and privately expecting to be traded before the February deadline for an athletic forward who fits his coaching designs. Buss believed that Nash had been neutralized in the Princeton offense, sources say, and that he would never flourish with the changes – blessed by the organization over the summer, by the way – that Brown implemented for the season.

Two years ago, Buss chose Mike Brown over Kupchak's choice, Rick Adelman. This time, it was the desert myth of D'Antoni and Nash, a reunion that feels like it should be touring state fairs with REO Speedwagon.

In so many ways, Nash made D'Antoni, but he can't bail him out anymore. The Lakers are burying themselves, deeper and deeper, and the coach doesn't have the stomach, nor the brass, to elevate them out of the mess. His system is flawed for this franchise, and beyond that, he brings nothing to a basketball team.

Perhaps Nash can still make a difference on these Lakers, but the franchise's future never should've been thrust on hiring a coach to protect his interests. No one wants to hear this now, but it's true: Beyond Kobe Bryant's era, the future of these Lakers has to be Dwight Howard. He hasn't been himself this season and maybe needs a full summer of recovery for that back and shoulder, but the Lakers have no choice.

They need Howard to be dominant again, need him flanked with Gasol on the frontline. Only this is the wrong coach, running the wrong system to make the most of that partnership.

Somehow, the Los Angeles Lakers doubled down on the washed-up, banner-less legacy of the Phoenix Suns, and yet somehow they still wonder how everything could've unraveled this way. Mike D'Antoni was never the return of Showtime, but merely a mirage that came out of the desert and ultimately will blow out of Los Angeles like tumbleweed.


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--forget-kobe-dwight--the-lakers-will-pay-for-doubling-down-on-failed-reunion-tour-of-d-antoni-nash-094336411.html
Image
User avatar
thisbjgz

 
Posts: 2435
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:03 am
Location: brooklyn, nyc !

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Lakeshow24 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:54 am

thisbjgz wrote:

MEMPHIS, Tenn. – Beyond the personal animus and the uncertainty over his willingness to endure the job's grind, the biggest issue Lakers vice president Jim Buss had with choosing Phil Jackson over Mike D'Antoni as head coach centered on the consequences for Steve Nash. With no use for this point guard in the triangle offense, Buss's fear was that Jackson would've pushed to move Nash out, sources said.

Buss passed on the Lakers' glorious championship legacy to attach his franchise to the desert mirage of D'Antoni and Nash, a reunion tour born of a one-dimensional, gimmick offense and a point guard pushing 39 years old.

"The way this turns out," one league source connected to the hiring process said, "you've chosen not only Steve Nash over [Pau] Gasol, but maybe over Gasol and Dwight [Howard]." Mike D'Antoni's Lakers haven't won a road game since Dec. 22 vs. Golden State. (EFE)

These Lakers are missing the athleticism and perimeter quickness to contend for a championship. This 106-93 loss to the Memphis Grizzlies on Wednesday at FedEx Forum was one more installment in a debacle of a season that the mere presence of D'Antoni worsens every day.

The Lakers are a flat-lined, free-falling folly, an embarrassment of excess, a mangle of mismatched and non-connective parts. Whatever confrontational message Kobe Bryant delivered to Howard in a team meeting reported by the Los Angeles Times on Wednesday morning, make no mistake: The Bryant-Howard dynamic is the most minimal of the Lakers' issues.

[Related: Dwight Howard suffers another shoulder injury]

Under Jackson, the Lakers would've played through Gasol, Howard and Bryant in the post, would've dictated terms through the strengths of the franchise's Hall of Fame players. Under Jackson, the Lakers would've had a leader of men to gather them out of this rubble.

Gasol could go in a trade come mid-February, and Howard – if faced with a Lakers future that includes D'Antoni – could leave the Lakers come July in free agency.

Buss doubled down on the wrong coach, and wrong player. D'Antoni and Nash are busts, unable to bring the systematic and connective threads to a lineup that they were charged to regenerate. As far back out of the playoffs as these Lakers have dropped, here's the most disturbing truth: Los Angeles is closer to the drop-dead bottom of the Western Conference with Phoenix and New Orleans – three games – than they are climbing four games to reach the eighth spot in the Western Conference playoffs.

The Lakers haven't won a game outside of Staples Center in a month. These Lakers resemble D'Antoni in every way: Mumbling, soft and shrouded in marketed mythology.

"We've got an All-Star team," D'Antoni said. "Have you ever watched an All-Star Game? It's God-awful because everybody gets the ball, they go one-on-one and then they play no defense. That's our team."

D'Antoni is far stronger with the glib quotes than he is substantive solutions.

Howard declared himself "immature" for marching around the locker room after a loss to the Chicago Bulls, and insisting that reporters and hangers-on study the stat sheet to understand his frustration. Bryant did challenge him in a team meeting on Wednesday morning, but he's done that often this season. Howard needs Bryant to play that part, because D'Antoni has forever been part-passive aggressive and fully non-confrontational.

A shoulder injury knocked Dwight Howard out of Wednesday's game in Memphis. (CBS Sports Network)Howard is 26 years old, fresh off back surgery and struggling with a torn labrum that resurfaced Wednesday against the Grizzlies. Howard appeared to be in significant pain, couldn't make a shot, nor properly pursue rebounds. The Lakers will have him examined on Thursday in Los Angeles, but one source insisted that it didn't appear to be a significant injury.

This has rapidly turned into a lost season for Howard, but it would be foolish to declare his Lakers career a lost cause. For those who've called the Lakers on Howard's availability – the Dallas Mavericks and the Atlanta Hawks – the message has been unmistakable: Howard isn't available, nor will that change before the February deadline.

[Related: Hornets to make name change to Pelicans official]

Bryant won't' chase Howard out of here, but multiple sources tell Yahoo! Sports that the only issue that would give Howard pause on re-signing with the Lakers would be D'Antoni. In the end, D'Antoni is a coach who fundamentally doesn't believe in post play, who sees franchise centers as intrusive cloggers of the lane.

As New York Knicks coach, D'Antoni issued a clear stance in organizational discussions on a possible pursuit of Howard: He wasn't a fan. He told Knicks front-office staff stories about how the elders of USA Basketball preferred Tyson Chandler to Howard, and that the Knicks would be wise to adopt that thinking, a source with knowledge of the conversations told Yahoo! Sports.

The best thing to ever happen to Howard's career was Stan Van Gundy coming into his life in Orlando. He pushed him, tested him and brought out the best in Howard. In Los Angeles, Bryant plays the part now. They were never destined to have a close relationship. Bryant can't tolerate the tone that Howard sets, the clowning on the floor, the grabbing of the microphone on team charter flights to do impressions, the locker room revelry.

Nevertheless, these Lakers are doomed without Howard dominating on defense. Hours before telling D'Antoni to get him out of Wednesday night's loss with a recurrence of the labrum injury that cost him three games earlier this month, Howard had left that morning team meeting apologetic and promising to redirect his frustrations on offense into a disposition of defensive dominance.

The Lakers understand that Los Angeles gives everything Howard wants to be a global star, gives him the guaranteed of a five-year, $100 million extension this summer. They don't believe he'll walk, and yet as one source tied to the Lakers and Howard says: "Even if they're right, and Dwight stays, do you want Dwight unhappy and feeling uninvolved with D'Antoni?"

[Related: George Karl calls out JaVale McGee]

For the Lakers to fire D'Antoni with three years left on his new contract – just after they fired Mike Brown with three years left – would leave them buried with $25 million in coaching payouts. And then, who do you get? Forget Jackson. That can't happen now. Funny, but everyone on the Lakers knows that the best week this team played happened to be under Bernie Bickerstaff, who simplified the offense, played traditional sets and had the Lakers hustling on defense in winning four of five games in November.

Nevertheless, D'Antoni has marginalized Gasol, leaving him livid and privately expecting to be traded before the February deadline for an athletic forward who fits his coaching designs. Buss believed that Nash had been neutralized in the Princeton offense, sources say, and that he would never flourish with the changes – blessed by the organization over the summer, by the way – that Brown implemented for the season.

Two years ago, Buss chose Mike Brown over Kupchak's choice, Rick Adelman. This time, it was the desert myth of D'Antoni and Nash, a reunion that feels like it should be touring state fairs with REO Speedwagon.

In so many ways, Nash made D'Antoni, but he can't bail him out anymore. The Lakers are burying themselves, deeper and deeper, and the coach doesn't have the stomach, nor the brass, to elevate them out of the mess. His system is flawed for this franchise, and beyond that, he brings nothing to a basketball team.

Perhaps Nash can still make a difference on these Lakers, but the franchise's future never should've been thrust on hiring a coach to protect his interests. No one wants to hear this now, but it's true: Beyond Kobe Bryant's era, the future of these Lakers has to be Dwight Howard. He hasn't been himself this season and maybe needs a full summer of recovery for that back and shoulder, but the Lakers have no choice.

They need Howard to be dominant again, need him flanked with Gasol on the frontline. Only this is the wrong coach, running the wrong system to make the most of that partnership.

Somehow, the Los Angeles Lakers doubled down on the washed-up, banner-less legacy of the Phoenix Suns, and yet somehow they still wonder how everything could've unraveled this way. Mike D'Antoni was never the return of Showtime, but merely a mirage that came out of the desert and ultimately will blow out of Los Angeles like tumbleweed.


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--forget-kobe-dwight--the-lakers-will-pay-for-doubling-down-on-failed-reunion-tour-of-d-antoni-nash-094336411.html


I just wonder why it takes losing to Memphis for this article to come out. Weren't we all saying this before O'Antoni coached even his first game here? Once he was chosen over Phil I was just... shocked.
UCLA, Los Angeles, CA. Born and Raised.
In Dr. Buss I Truss!
THE ORIGINATOR OF: "Call It From Heaven Chick!"
Image
"To be removed if the Lakers make the playoffs." Well, I removed it for an hour and decided to put it back. I have to be honest.
User avatar
Lakeshow24

 
Posts: 4635
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby NewDynasty on Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:59 am

He needs to get fired and Nash traded.
NewDynasty

 
Posts: 304
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:41 am

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby MC on Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:09 am

^

That article says just about all you ever needed to know about this tool of a coach and the idiot that hired the guy over the darn phone........... you telling me that Howard was not a huge part of the philosophical discussion before hiring a coach for 4 years? your prized possession after trading Bynum and what was sold to the fans as the future of the franchise?

This is incompetency on a hole new level

As far as the Nash issue for not hiring Jackson........... I say bull s**t... that had NOTHING to do with that decision nor was the guy making the decision remotely qualified to make one. Jackson at times would run P&R action with Bryant/Gasol..... you now trying to tell me that he wouldn't with Nash and (pick a big) at times? and that MDA had a better chance at using your future franchise player than Jackson threw Nash? please stop insulting my intelligence you mental midget.
"If the wolf is the strength of the pack, the pack is the strength of the wolf"
User avatar
MC

 
Posts: 4374
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 2:54 pm

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Weezy on Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:49 am

The Lakers are burying themselves, deeper and deeper, and the coach doesn't have the stomach, nor the brass, to elevate them out of the mess. His system is flawed for this franchise, and beyond that, he brings nothing to a basketball team.


Dayum, Woj not holding back, that is freakin harsh and I love it. He doesn't have the stomach or the brass to fix this, and he does bring nothing to a basketball team, last one he left a mess and it immediately turned around. I also notice how he is much better at "glib" responses than ones of actual substance, such a terrible, terrible coach.
User avatar
Weezy
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 50881
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:14 am
Location: Anaheim, CA

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Doc Brown on Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:59 am

I don't think he gets canned this season, but this offseason he better not get too comfortable. If it's between losing D12 because he doesn't want MDA to be the coach, or keeping MDA because they are paying one coach already......

Lakers FO went all in on getting D12 to LA, they aren't going to lose him over something that can be changed in an instant.

My guess is MDA is gone this summer....

I wouldn't be surprised if they went all in on Phil to appease D12 to stay. Yes, I know what happened the first time, but the FO can't afford for this to happen again, they need a sure bet this time because the one they hire will be the one that D12 is ok and that will stick.
Rule of Thumb at ClubLakers - Never encourage people to check your post history.
User avatar
Doc Brown

 
Posts: 19457
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:11 am
Location: Ohio

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby KareemTheGreat33 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:08 am

:man10: We've come from the best to one of the worst rather fast and just in time when the idiot son took over from his father. Who would have thought.
"Allons-y Lakers!"
User avatar
KareemTheGreat33

 
Posts: 7835
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:52 am
Location: Philippines

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby karacha on Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:41 am

You know who is probably the most frustrated person on the Lakers? Mitch. The guy is doing everything to create a championship team; he gets good players, finds the right coach for them, but... they don't listen to him and now the team has zero chemistry and no identity. Too bad.

He's going to have another chance in Summer 2014, but again... is Jim going to let him do his job?
"It's not realistic to get younger and better when you only have the veteran's minimum to offer free agents." :mhihi:

-Troll Kupchak
User avatar
karacha
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 37461
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:20 pm

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Blahdeh Deebatz on Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:11 am

In retrospect, D'Antoni was a horrible choice as coach. When the Lakers used to play the Suns in the playoffs, there was always a battle of game speed. The Suns wanted to speed the game up, and the Lakers wanted to slow the game down. A faster pace fit the Suns better because they had more team speed and 3-point shooting. A slower pace fit the Lakers better because they had older players with more post-up game. The Laker personnel haven't changed much - they're still older and have players that are good at posting up. Because of that, they still have a relative weakness against younger teams when the game speeds up. The only difference is now their coach deliberately wants them to choose a game speed where they are weakest.

With this team, there really should be no shots taken outside of the key during the first 14 seconds of the shot clock. No more jacking up threes during the first 10 seconds of the shot clock before the offense has had a chance to set up. If I'm coach, I bench Kobe every time he takes a contested outside shot during the first 10 seconds of the shot clock. Slow the game down. It's the only way for this team to win.
User avatar
Blahdeh Deebatz

 
Posts: 1271
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:02 am

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby D.B. Cooper on Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:58 am

karacha wrote:You know who is probably the most frustrated person on the Lakers? Mitch. The guy is doing everything to create a championship team; he gets good players, finds the right coach for them, but... they don't listen to him and now the team has zero chemistry and no identity. Too bad.

He's going to have another chance in Summer 2014, but again... is Jim going to let him do his job?


This is who I feel for too.

Jimmy is good at getting the players that Laker fans want but he sucks at picking head coaches.

Rudy T
The Clown
Pringles
Image
User avatar
D.B. Cooper

 
Posts: 6853
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:03 pm
Location: C.L

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby karacha on Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:19 am

If Mitch wanted Adelman, you go with Adelman. Jim probably thought that Adelman's system was too similar to the triangle and not very attractive. Unfortunately, right now we don't even have the system, every player looks lost and they are not fun to watch. I will be the first one to admit that I expected them to buy into MDA's "energy ball" philosophy... but he just wasn't able to inspire them for whatever reason. And it's not just his fault. I know that. Maybe the team got totally demoralized when Brown came and/or when he was fired, I don't know. Maybe Kobe gets at least some blame as the leader.

But I know Mitch did everything in his power to put a good product on the floor. With Nash/Kobe/Metta/Pau/Dwight/Clark/Hill/Meeks you have to be able to win more games then this. They lack the athleticism to play championship ball on the defensive end... maybe.... but they should still win around 60% of their games with the right system in place that can at least try to hide some of our deficiencies.
"It's not realistic to get younger and better when you only have the veteran's minimum to offer free agents." :mhihi:

-Troll Kupchak
User avatar
karacha
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 37461
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:20 pm

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby 432J on Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:53 am

BDG wrote:I still refuse to believe we'd have this bad of a record with Phil Jackson coaching us.

of course we wouldn't have

there is no way
Image
User avatar
432J

 
Posts: 4797
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Sherbrooke, Quebec

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby 432J on Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:55 am

IMO you can't fault them for hiring rudy t. there was no one else available at the time and he was a proven, championship caliber coach. not to mention they didn't play all that bad under him

brown and dan tony however, are two of the most idiotic coaching hires in NBA history. they were both hired too quickly and ahead of better, more proven candidates (phil, shaw, adelman)
Image
User avatar
432J

 
Posts: 4797
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Sherbrooke, Quebec

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby khmrP on Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:05 am

its a shame Jim forgot bout 2006 when a team full of scrubs like Smush, Kwame, Cook etc. almost beat Antoni and his mighty Suns in the 1st rd, a team that made Kwame look like a legit nba center :man10:
User avatar
khmrP

 
Posts: 10448
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 10:45 pm

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby phoenixrisingla on Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:09 am

thisbjgz wrote:


The Lakers are a flat-lined, free-falling folly, an embarrassment of excess, a mangle of mismatched and non-connective parts. Whatever confrontational message Kobe Bryant delivered to Howard in a team meeting reported by the Los Angeles Times on Wednesday morning, make no mistake: The Bryant-Howard dynamic is the most minimal of the Lakers' issues.


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--forget-kobe-dwight--the-lakers-will-pay-for-doubling-down-on-failed-reunion-tour-of-d-antoni-nash-094336411.html


Ouch. My pride. :man5:
Image
User avatar
phoenixrisingla

 
Posts: 2277
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:49 am
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA!

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Lakerjones on Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:14 am

That WOJ article was golden. Great read, great points. Of course for me it doesn't hurt that it states nearly everything that I've been whining about lately aloud and to myself.

They need to get rid of this guy, and here's why. The morale is at an all time low. It's already been stated that none of these guys likes D' Antoni's system (except maybe Nash but even he is playing terribly lately). To keep going with it is just prolonging the inevitable.

The Lakers need to feel good about themselves again. Just firing D' Antoni could help that aim. If he's gone there is no longer that specter that he might stay, that he will continue to run this putrid show until who knows when.

It would liberate these guys knowing that they will get a new coach next season. This is the only way I can realistically see them turning it around and making a playoff run.

A mistake is a mistake. There's no hiding it by letting D' Antoni just continue to coach. Unless of course they want to lose the players' and fans' interest completely. If they really don't give a crap then I guess so be it. Keep him here and continue the utter embarrassment.

A bigger mistake than eating D' Antoni's salary is to just deny that it isn't working. At the end of the day his 12 million contract is PEANUTS. Some of you guys aren't getting that. It's a tax write off - an operating expense for these guys. Please remember that Time Warner just signed a 2-5 billion dollar contract with the Lakers.

Let me tell you, continued losses and embarrassment are going to get more costly for them than a coach's contract (or even three eventually when they hire someone else this summer). In the meantime Bernie and Eddie are already on the payroll. They can run it as interim coaches. They have literally nothing to lose at this point in doing so. Bernie is plenty capable of doing so. I keep hearing how Bernie doesn't want to, but I have never actually seen the quote in which he said it - and even if he did, I want to know the context. He has a self-effacing demeanor and as I've said before, he probably knew good and well that they were going to go out and hire an outside head coach after Brown.

But regardless of anything Bernie said, he has plenty of experience (14 years) as a head coach and he's already collecting a check with the Lakers as an assistant. He can do the job they ask of him - if they ask him. Unless you guys really think that he'll step down and quit or something ( :man10: ).
Lakerjones
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 15234
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:37 am

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:03 pm

I will admit I tried to support MDA. However, his system & philosophy isn't getting across to this team. It's been apparent for some weeks. Nobody is on the same page offensively nor defensively; it's a shame. Sure, you can have all the talent on paper; but if you're not running a system conducive to the personnel on this team, then you have what we been witnessing; a team that has no clue what it's doing.

Even if you're losing basketball games, you have players who have defined roles with responsibilities game in and game out. It looks like a lottery team out there. This team has become mentally defeated. This coach can't inspire, is cancelling practices, and is so lost. Unfortunately, I think he's going to be here next year; I just hope he is gone by 2014; I wouldn't want him as a coach as we go through his rebuilding process...
dwighthowardsdad

 
Posts: 1695
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:31 am

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Lakerjones on Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:36 pm

^^ Agreed.

I truly hope that D' Antoni doesn't continue after this year. Again, I'd love to see him gone right now. It's the only chance they have to salvage the season. It's not a good chance. And I don't pretend to read the mind of the ownership in what plans they have for D' Antoni going forward. You may very well be onto something there DHD. In the back of my mind I have this weird suspicion that the FO never really believed that D' Antoni could get this team over the hump - but that they hired him to do whatever he could do UNTIL 2014 when they would try to pair him up with Lebron who played well for him on Team USA.

It makes sense in that regard. Get a coach who Kobe and Nash will sign off on. Try to run a more uptempo game, eye pleasing game than what we saw under Brown. But ultimately, keep D' Antoni on the payroll until they can build a truly uptempo younger team for him and Lebron in 2014 when everyone besides Nash comes off the books.

That might be their long term goal and idea. I'm not totally buying that they are stupid enough to believe that D' Antoni was the BEST possible fit for this roster. More likely, they were thinking longer term and that's why they gave him three years plus the option.

However, that doesn't exonerate them right now. I feel like if that's the case, it's a cynical play and one they should not have gone for.

As it stands right now as just a hire based purely on coaching today, speculation aside about the FO's motives, there's no getting around the fact that it was a mistake.

And what I keep saying to those who say "he can't get fired, he won't get fired this season" is this: When you make a mistake it's much worse to hide it or ignore it. The best thing you can do is to own up to it, and fix it.

Right now there is a lot more at stake than a coach's salary (or two). There is the future of the franchise. It's going to cost a whole lot more down the line than 12 or even 25 million dollars if we start tanking as it appears we will. When you put out a garbage product and start to lose season ticket holders, start to lose the interest of the TV viewership, then Time Warner starts to lose advertising money . . . you can see the slippery slope they are headed down.

Some times the FO needs to just fess up to their mistake and make it right. There's more to be learned and gained in doing that than just ignoring the problem and letting the ship sink. We have nothing to gain by missing the playoffs. We have nothing to gain by frustrating and isolating one of our next possible franchise players in Howard. We have nothing to gain by pissing off the fan base.
Lakerjones
CL Global Moderator
 
Posts: 15234
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:37 am

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby GoldenKnight on Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:48 pm

Dwight needs to get this dude out of L.A & keep Bernie for the rest of the year.
Image

CHECK OUT MY DESIGNS ON FB/INSTAGRAM/TWITTER: @GoldenKnightGFX
User avatar
GoldenKnight

 
Posts: 2185
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:57 am

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby D.B. Cooper on Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:16 pm

Jalen Rose wrote:


Jalen Rose was on the 2007 Suns, and says they lost the series well before this famous moment.


Then there's more insight than some Suns fans might want into 2007, which is the year Steve Nash and the Phoenix Suns thought they would win a title, but lost to the Spurs in a horribly controversial suspension-riddled second-round series. The Suns, as we knew them, would never be the same again.

Jalen Rose was on that Suns team, which he brought up after I asked him about Rick Carlisle, whom Rose once played for:

He made sure we ran hard at shootaround. He made sure we broke a sweat. He made sure we're prepared for the other team's sets. We knew if we were doubling the post. We knew how we were playing pick and roll. Are we hedging on this player, going under on that one. Are we double-teaming? How are we going to play those down screens certain players are coming off ...

We knew everything.

When you've played for a coach like that, it must be hard to play for a coach who doesn't have those same qualities.

I played for the Phoenix Suns. 2007. My last season. As were playing against the San Antonio Spurs. And I remember us coming to our first practice before Game 1. And we brought it in. And we were excited about our playoffs getting started. And Coach D'Antoni put in some film. It was Steve behind the back. Amare slam dunk. Shawn Marion with the block. Raja Bell with the charge. It was a highlight film of our team. They have showed me making a shot on there, and I was barely even playing.

So after that he as like all right, we're going to run and down, go through our set plays and whatnot, and we're going to get out of here.

And I looked at Kurt Thomas. I hit him with an elbow. I'm like hold on. I gotta say something.

So I did my Arnold Horshack from "Welcome Back, Kotter."

I'm like "ooh, ooh, ooh, hey coach. I gotta ask a question. Are we going to talk about how we're going to defend Tim Duncan on the post? Are we going to talk about Manu Ginobili in pick and roll? Keeping Tony Parker out of the paint?"

He looked at me in front of the entire team and coaching staff and said: "We're not worried about what they do. If we play to the best of our abilities, and do what we're supposed to do, there is no way they can beat us. We don't mind if Tim goes off. If Tim goes off, that means everybody else is quiet."

So, people gave us a pass. And we were a great team. And Robert Horry did knock my guy Steve Nash into the scoreboard. And Amare Stoudemire and Boris Diaw got up off the bench and I should have been paying attention and being a vet, and grabbed Amare -- maybe I'd have a ring to this day.

They walked out on the floor, they get suspended late in the series, and we did lose that game.

But we really lost the series in Game 1. When the guy that couldn't beat us by himself -- Tim Duncan -- he only had 40 and 20 in Game 1. [Ed. note: Actually 33 and 16.]

So that's really when we lost the series.

You're saying that if Rick Carlisle coached that team ...

Breeze through. I have a 'chip. I would have a 'chip.

That's gotta be a bad feeling.

It is what it is.
Image
User avatar
D.B. Cooper

 
Posts: 6853
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:03 pm
Location: C.L

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby tha son on Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:44 pm

Just read this article in the New Yorker, and I think it's very relevant to the Lakers, seeing as they find themselves in the same exact position that is discussed: The Sunk-Cost Effect ... (for the purposes of the article, replace Sanchez with D'Antoni and the Jets FO with the Lakers FO...)

The Jets have stumbled into a classic economic dilemma, known as the sunk-cost effect. In a purely rational world, Sanchez’s guaranteed salary would be irrelevant to the decision of whether or not to start him (since the Jets have to pay it either way). But in the real world sunk costs are hard to ignore. Hal Arkes, a psychologist at Ohio State University who has spent much of his career studying the subject, explains, “Abandoning a project that you’ve invested a lot in feels like you’ve wasted everything, and waste is something we’re told to avoid.” This means that we often end up sticking with something when we’d be better off cutting our losses—sitting through a bad movie, say, just because we’ve paid for the ticket. In business and government, the effect pushes people to throw good money after bad. The quintessential case of this is the Concorde. There was never a convincing business case for the supersonic airliner, and there were numerous attempts to kill it. But those attempts all failed, in large part because of the billions that had already been spent.

The sunk-cost dilemma isn’t just about waste. It’s also about reputation—after all, the future is uncertain, and if you keep a foundering project alive there’s always a chance that it will right itself. “Giving up on a project, though, means that somebody has to admit that he shouldn’t have done it in the first place,” Arkes says. “And there are lots of executives who would rather be tortured than admit that they’re wrong.” If you’re faced with this problem, it’s tempting to look to those times when staying the course has worked out. After all, plenty of N.F.L. teams have eventually been rewarded for sticking with struggling quarterbacks—most notably, the Giants with Eli Manning. Andrew Brandt, a former N.F.L. executive who’s now a business analyst for ESPN NFL, told me, “When you stray from decisions from year to year, that’s when you get in trouble, unless you have an option so attractive that it’s worth giving up on your current plan.” The problem is that patience is often simply self-justification. The organizational behaviorist Barry Staw, in a 1995 study of the N.B.A., showed that high draft picks consistently got more playing time than lower draft picks, regardless of whether their performance justified it. When executives think they’re being patient, they’re often just being obstinate.

The most intriguing aspect of sunk costs, as Arkes and others have documented, is that greater investment in a project increases people’s belief that it will succeed. That may help explain what happened last March, when the Jets gave Sanchez a contract extension that guaranteed his salary through 2013. Since Sanchez was already signed for two more years, and was coming off a mediocre season, the extension seemed peculiar to outside observers. But the Jets argued, and doubtless believed, that it was a smart way of locking up a young player. It was a classic case of what psychologists call the “escalation of commitment.” Since the Jets had bet big on Sanchez, it seemed reasonable to place an even bigger bet on his future.

So how do you counter this problem? “Taking the original decision-maker out of the picture and letting a fresh pair of eyes look at the pros and cons can help,” Arkes says. He points to a Staw study of a bank that found that loan officers were reluctant to acknowledge that loans they’d made had gone bad, whereas new executives were far more likely to take the loss and move on. Whoever becomes the Jets’ new general manager will have no personal or reputational investment in Sanchez, which should make it easier for him to be more objective, though he’ll still have to persuade the head coach and the owner. New York might also take comfort from the success of the Seattle Seahawks, who showed a remarkable indifference to sunk costs this year. Last spring, Seattle signed the quarterback Matt Flynn to a hefty free-agent contract, a chunk of which was guaranteed. But in training camp Flynn was outperformed by a new draftee, Russell Wilson. The Seahawks put Wilson in the starting lineup, Flynn got to throw only nine passes all year, and the team made it to the playoffs. This happened only because the Seahawks understood that Flynn’s salary was irrelevant. “I don’t want that to matter to me,” the head coach said of the investment. “You want the best guy at that time to play.”

To be fair, the Jets face a harder problem than the Seahawks did: the talent pool of available quarterbacks is small, and, because of the N.F.L. salary cap, they’ll likely have a limited amount of money for signing an alternative to Sanchez. “Unless the Jets get lucky in the draft or bring in a veteran who can remake his career, Sanchez could well be the best option,” Brandt told me. Even so, while the Jets figure out whether Sanchez is the best option, they need to forget—forget how much they’ve paid him, how high he was drafted, and even the fact that the head coach has a tattoo of his wife wearing Sanchez’s jersey. All those costs are sunk. Worrying about them will only insure that the Jets are, too. ♦
tha son

 
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:00 pm

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby thisbjgz on Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:01 pm

Image
Image
User avatar
thisbjgz

 
Posts: 2435
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:03 am
Location: brooklyn, nyc !

PreviousNext

Return to The Graveyard

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Weezy and 10 guests

cron
Advertise Here | Privacy Policy | ©2008 Sculu Sports. Come Strong.