Mike D'Antoni Discussion: RESIGNS AS LAKERS COACH (184)

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:41 am

Well, he sounds like an upgrade over Brown. We'll see how it translates onto the basketball court. The great & obvious thing is we have Nash to direct the offense. Although, he's older, he still plays at an elite level and will make D'Antoni hopefully look like a genius...
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby kray28 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:03 am

trodgers wrote:
kray28 wrote:Distribution is skewed right. a median would be a better measure of central tendency.

Why? If players aren't asked to contribute equally, looking at their percentage of contribution seems to be exactly what is relevant here. Younger guys who don't see the court much would bring the number down and obscure the distribution of the heavy lifting. I'll check the mean though. Probably similar effect.


Median does a better job of filtering out skewness and variance. Basically the 50th percentile tells you more about the group ages than an average/mean would.

Long story short...Dwight is dragging down the Laker average age bigtime. While he does have a decent usage rate, I think the older players collectively handle the ball way more than he does.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby v1n5anity on Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:39 pm

SUN'S FAN'S PERSPECTIVE ON D'ANTONI AND HOW HE MAY USE OUR PERSONNEL (VERY INSIGHTFUL):

fifth_rune wrote:First of all, I take no credit for the following which comes from a commenter named Jerke at ForumBlueandGold; however I felt the analysis he/she provides is good and seems to come from a solid understanding/background of D'Antoni and the Suns so I thought I'd post it here:

As a former suns/Nash fan’s perspective – here’s a couple things to expect once D’Antoni gets offence up and running

Secondary break – yes SSOL signature look was the fast break and wide open transition buckets, however what people don’t realize what made it so effective was the easy looks the suns got after the initial break and resulting confusion. While all defenders are hustling back and picking up the first person they can find and stopping the ball – often post players wings were left open. Look for Pau. D Howard, J Hill to get lots of easy buckets simply by jogging down the floor slowly into the play – only to get hit with a pass mid stride as they hit the foul line by Nash. This isn’t random, but orchestrated that trailers always fill the lanes and run the court with the first men down court effectively acting as decoys.

Pau won’t be a stretch 4 – SSOL played with 1 inside and 4 around sometimes but not all – Boris Diaw was not a stretch four and rarely attempted long twos/3′s shots. His range and skill level is a lesser version of Pau’s. Look for Pau to fill the high post, flashing in and out as Diaw did and being the facilitator for the team especially on occasions when Nash is out. Pau’s scoring may decrease but his overall contributions may go up in terms of assists etc.. Once him and Howard get accustomed you’ll see lots of lobs from this area to the rim on rolls/of picks etc.. Nash never threw a tonne of lobs due to his distance from the hoop – but Diaw and Marion hooked up a fair amount on oops – much easier pass when its coming from someone who can see over the D. Because the suns never had a strong back up pg behind Nash – they often used Diaw as their pt forward – Look for this to happen if the Lakers don’t feel they have a strong half court facilitator when Kobe/Nash are off the court.

Everyone has a green light – if you don’t shoot you’re not a threat. As long as the shot is open, D’Antoni expects you to take it; if you don’t shoot you’re a liability and he’ll bench you. The idea being that by shooting in transition or early – a player is more likely to have time and space and be in rhythm to take a good shot. Why spend 20 seconds working the ball around when at 8-9 secs you can get a wide open look because the other team isn’t back and set yet. Jodie Meeks , Blake, Jamison et al should see an uptick in their percentages because they are going to be encouraged to shoot when they receive the ball – and they’ll have more space and time than before (why do you think Jared Dudley suddenly became a legit 3 pt threat). Regular NBA players who shoot 25-30 percent from 3 suddenly get a lot better when they get wide open looks – confidence breeds competence etc… like PJ, but differently D’Antoni tries to put players in positions to maximize their talents.

Mike D’Antoni showing why players love him in discussing Jodie Meeks: “The only time (he) needs to shoot it is when he touches the ball…”

The one caveat is Artest – he’s turned into a bit of a chucker so far – though he is developing into a reasonable corner 3 shooter. Look for D’Antoni to maximize Artests touches in motion towards the basket so that he has no choice but to take it strong (which gets him in scoring position but limits him trying to create which is where he makes things ugly) – and he’ll also be instructed to run to the corners – which is a good shot for him and clears out the lane.

Note about short rotation complaint w D’Antoni – He was the coach from 04-08 of the suns – and yes during that time he usually did run with only a 7-8 player rotation max – that included no real backup of even Duhon or Blake’s quality for Nash. Here’s a link

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/

Take a peak at the rosters from 2004-08 and see what he had to work with beyond the top 7-8 players. Not a hell of a lot there for a team that was contending for championships. On this team D’Antoni has Jamison, Hill, Meeks, plus 3 legit guard backups in Blake (who will get mins as a 2 alongside Nash in a spread the floor setup), Duhon (who had his best years running w D’Antoni in NY), Darius (when hes good) Morris (whens he’s bad – according to our site mod!) who – during the San Antonio game looked like a legit change of pace/pressure and d’up pg. That’s 6 players who – when mixed in with the starters – start looking like not a bad bench
Eubanks I’m not sold on and Earl Clark is riding out a rookie contract – Sacre is a practice body.


See full original FB&G post and comments at http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2012/11/15/mike-dantoni-era-brings-as-many-questions-as-answers/#comments
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Finwë on Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:59 pm

^^ Great breakdown, hopefully it works out to be a good hire
"The first time I ever saw my uniform hanging in the locker I put it on right away, and it just felt like I was putting on golden armour. From that day forward, I just called it 'the golden armour', it just felt like there was something mystical and magical about it" - Kobe Bryant.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby OX1947 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:06 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:
trodgers wrote:
OX1947 wrote:hahahhahaha, those who do not like uptempo. Uptempo won 5 titles and birthed the NBA into the international lexicon.

The English long bow was dominant. Let's equip our military with them. Short point: can't move seamlessly from what has worked to what will. Btw, you haven't offered sufficient evidence to bolster the claim that uptempo worked.


:man10: You forgot the horses and bayonets.

When they asked Dwight about what he thought...his eyes blew up real wide and said "110 points, huh?" He made a comment about how the team is old and they're going to have to all get into shape, including him. If this hire was primarily to retain Dwight, forget convincing the fans...you're going to have to convince Dwight himself.

I'm all for watching fun n gun basketball, but know your personnel. As a big guy, you're anchoring the D and if you get a stop or a defensive rebound, there's the kick out and I'm sure there will be a majority of times that Dwight doesn't even touch the ball heading down. Even if he touches it and you're promoting the 3 ball, those shots, if not made, normally come off hot off the rim and everybody has seen our defensive transition woes. A large part of that is cause we're older.


The triangle offense system is older then fast break offense. So, yous arguments are boff bubcuss. HOW DO YOU LIKE ME NOW!?
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby DarthRekal on Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:09 pm

Finwë wrote:^^ Great breakdown, hopefully it works out to be a good hire

agree.. gotme a lil goosebumpy..

you think we'll see some attributes of MDA tonight?
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby v1n5anity on Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:19 pm

DarthRekal wrote:
Finwë wrote:^^ Great breakdown, hopefully it works out to be a good hire

agree.. gotme a lil goosebumpy..

you think we'll see some attributes of MDA tonight?


I hope so. I'm very excited after reading that breakdown. A lot of things in there that make sense that most people haven't touched on. Can't wait for Nash's return. :jam2:
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby karacha on Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:20 pm

Look, one thing that drove me crazy is the fact that some of our players were reluctant to shoot. Blake and others have a perfectly good shot -- even Pau is guilty of this lately -- but they try to get rid of it like it's hot potato and Kobe needs to bail them out. I absolutely hated this, and had no fun watching the Lakers during these"dry" stretches.

No more. I expect them to shoot now. Man, you are paid millions to play the game... you have an open shot? Take it. Except if you see Kobe, Pau or Dwight alone under the basket. I want Blake, Duhon, Meeks, Pau and Jamison to shoot the $%^%$ ball! With confidence, please.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Punk-101 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:28 pm

confidence breeds competence

I liked this quote.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby v1n5anity on Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:33 pm

karacha wrote:Look, one thing that drove me crazy is the fact that some of our players were reluctant to shoot. Blake and others have a perfectly good shot -- even Pau is guilty of this lately -- but they try to get rid of it like it's hot potato and Kobe needs to bail them out. I absolutely hated this, and had no fun watching the Lakers during these"dry" stretches.

No more. I expect them to shoot now. Man, you are paid millions to play the game... you have an open shot? Take it. Except if you see Kobe, Pau or Dwight alone under the basket. I want Blake, Duhon, Meeks, Pau and Jamison to shoot the $%^%$ ball! With confidence, please.


Absolutely. It's why I'm not worried about Pau's midrange. I know he's been off lately, but it has nothing to do with mechanics or confidence. There's one simple reason for why he's struggling: hesitation. Too many times Pau will catch the ball (in position to shoot) but is looking to pass FIRST. Then when he sees the pass isn't there, he decides to shoot. That messes up the whole rhythm of a shot. And yes, it really is that simple. Pau is one of the best shooting big men in the game from midrange. He has ridiculous stats even from 16-23 feet. Shot over 40% from there last season I believe (and prior years too). I have full confidence that if he's looking to shoot first, and pass second, that he'll be nailing those shots like he has been for so many years. I think it's important for him to look for the pass too, but if he's looking for the pass first, it will continue to hinder his jumper. Pau is a smart enough dude to figure out if he needs to pass even if he's looking to shoot first. He needs to be aggressive and look to shoot in rhythm. This combined with Pau unmatched passing skills as a big man will make him valuable to this offense. Can't wait.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Weezy on Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:34 pm

That was an interesting read, broke things down well, but I'm still skeptical, cautiously optimistic at best. I didn't grow up watching fast break basketball, and most of the Lakers I've ever watched (starting in '92/'93) ran traditional offense or the Triangle. I'm used to taking care of the ball, working to get quality shots, the idea to me of trying to get downcourt to take a fast shot seems reckless. I've never seen a championship won that way, teams that win always take care of the ball, control the tempo of the game (usually on the slow side), and play good defense to win. I still can't picture this "jack up a shot as soon as you're open" offense winning anything meaningful, it doesn't work when games get tight, when players get nervous and tight, it looks reckless to me. We wouldn't have won game 7 against Boston in 2010 had we played that way, every possession was precious.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Uncle_Meat on Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:37 pm

Anyone know what's wrong with MDA? His leg is in a sling.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Finwë on Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:45 pm

^^ it's not gonna be that extreme. It's more of a philosophy than an actual implemented system.
I like it, like karacha pointed out, too many times our guys are hesitant with their shots to a fault. With D'Antoni expecting and asking players to shoot open shots, our players should feel more confident, which is extremely important for their effectiveness.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Vasashi17 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:32 pm

People should really tinker their expectations down initially. Alot of this is put on Nash's shoulders and I don't think its really fair to him.

The guys is still coming off an injury and he just said that the pain just lingers so Sunday he's a no go and really there isn't a set timeline for his return. When he does get back, he's going to have to get back into playing shape...so we're all curious how this will turn out, but I think Nash needs to just get all the way right and shouldn't be pressured to return prematurely.

With Nash out, it gives us a good idea of how it will look if we have the bad misfortune of having Nash go down again.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby v1n5anity on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:00 pm

Absolutely NO hesitation from Pau and it's showing. His midrange jumper is money.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby karacha on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:55 pm

MDA is licking his chops right now. We managed to out-gun the Suns, while playing street ball and shooting great %.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby lakersin4 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:59 pm

You know, I'm starting to warm up to this hire.. Seeing how well we play without being confined in a structured offense, maybe the triangle would have held us back just like Princeton was. Mike D isn't about calling plays.. He's all about tempo & flow. Sure, we're old & with two 7 footers, we'll struggle pushing the pace, but I like the fact that we won't be confined to such a structured system. When you have this much talent, you don't really need that. Systems are good for helping role players, but the Princeton wasn't getting that done at all. & we never had more than 1-2 really productive guys off the bench with Phil. Maybe ol' Jim isn't as dumb as he looks. Only time will tell. Proud of our guys for a great game tonight.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Vasashi17 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:00 pm

I don't think you play like a headless chicken with a Suns team that's looking to run. First half saw us play that way and the Suns were pretty much in the game. When you play that way, probabilities catch up with you and you noticed multiple dry spells where the Suns went on runs to get back in it.

In the 2nd half you had a more paced tempo and we pulled away. We got more points in the paint. I think you have to know your opponent and push the tempo in pulses. If you push the pedal to the metal, you'll burn out early.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby karacha on Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:03 pm

If we played this instead of Princeton sets, or whatever that was... we'd be 7-2 right now and in the second place. Instead, we'll have to catch up... we're #10 right now.

IMO, we were too reckless, but when we learn how to control the pace and mix the transition game with some nice D, we'll be great. Mike will figure it out, I'm sure. Our guys simply wanted to show him they were ready. They scored 114, which impresses me. Cut the turnovers, up the D, and we're good. Keep in mind we were doing this without Nash. He'll know how to control the tempo.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Vasashi17 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:06 pm

Again...I just want to forewarn fans that this might not come right away. We're still a bit away from Nash coming back and this Suns team is the 2nd worst defensive team in the league. I don't think we really need to put too much emphasis on the points we put up on them.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby LakerFanIam on Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:19 am

There was a large group of fans hanging at The Hotel Figeuroa before the game who had printed up their own D'Antoni T-shirts to show support... Major props to some real Fans...

& I like the design too....

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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Pig Miller on Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:53 am

Questions:
1) who is on Mike D's staff?
2) are we keeping anyone from the previous regime (coach-wise)?

Observation:
I still don't like this run and gun style. While it's fun, it negates our size advantage. The only way team can beat us in a 7 game series, 48 minutes a game, is to turn to their advantage: speed. We're merely playing into their strategy.

Quick shots means more long rebounds, scramble for the ball, etc where foot speed matters quite a bit. a bad shot might as well be a turnover as it'll just get the other team running.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Doc Brown on Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:28 am

karacha wrote:IMO, we were too reckless, but when we learn how to control the pace and mix the transition game with some nice D, we'll be great. Mike will figure it out, I'm sure. Our guys simply wanted to show him they were ready. They scored 114, which impresses me. Cut the turnovers, up the D, and we're good. Keep in mind we were doing this without Nash. He'll know how to control the tempo.


This right here. Last year in the playoffs, we got after it on D (for our standards), which gave us a chance in most of the games. We couldn't score, run a set, that didn't involve Kobe doing everything. When the offense gets into a rhythm, this team will be scary...

The bolded part is crucial. The TO's are the type of just being care less with the ball and being lazy. They can be fixed with some focus on the players parts. Last night the Suns got 26 points off TO's alone. Cut the TO's in half and we blow them out and hold them to the low 90's.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby 432J on Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:30 am

Pig Miller wrote:Questions:
1) who is on Mike D's staff?
2) are we keeping anyone from the previous regime (coach-wise)?

Observation:
I still don't like this run and gun style. While it's fun, it negates our size advantage. The only way team can beat us in a 7 game series, 48 minutes a game, is to turn to their advantage: speed. We're merely playing into their strategy.

Quick shots means more long rebounds, scramble for the ball, etc where foot speed matters quite a bit. a bad shot might as well be a turnover as it'll just get the other team running.

from what i've heard they're keeping the staff that's already there and dan tony is bringing in his assistants phil weber and his brother dan dan tony

i don't see why eddie jordan is staying. he was only brought in to teach the princeton offense so what's the point of him being there if they aren't running it? looks like they're going to have 7-8 assistants

:man4: :man10:
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:25 am

LakerFanIam wrote:There was a large group of fans hanging at The Hotel Figeuroa before the game who had printed up their own D'Antoni T-shirts to show support... Major props to some real Fans...

& I like the design too....

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It should be a shirt of D'Antoni in the Heisenberg getup and just says "Run" underneath
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