Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

^^^With FTs you're absolutely right. However with FG shooting, that is all on the coach. He's there as an offensive mind and if that offense turns into 28 3 point attempts then what the hell is he doing? When Phil was here, we were getting higher percentage shots closer to the rim.

If the shot is high percentage and we miss those at a high clip, then you can live with it. But shooting from the perimeter and missing at a high clip makes you think that there was a better shot opportunity to be had. Just cause they're open shots, doesn't mean they need to be taken. The defense will give you a wide open shot from half court...why not take it? You kidding me?

Vasashi17 wrote:^^^With FTs you're absolutely right. However with FG shooting, that is all on the coach. He's there as an offensive mind and if that offense turns into 28 3 point attempts then what the hell is he doing? When Phil was here, we were getting higher percentage shots closer to the rim.

If the shot is high percentage and we miss those at a high clip, then you can live with it. But shooting from the perimeter and missing at a high clip makes you think that there was a better shot opportunity to be had. Just cause they're open shots, doesn't mean they need to be taken. The defense will give you a wide open shot from half court...why not take it?

Because as I explained before, everytime they got it into the paint, they were hacked and sent to the line. And guess what happened? They missed FT's. So they stopped attacking, deferred to Kobe and jacked 3's. That lack of aggressiveness isn't on the coach. It's on the players. Unless you really think D'Antoni was shouting "Give the ball to Kobe! Give it to Kobe!", I don't see how you can lay the blame on him for this one.

We don't have the shooters for the system that D'Antoni runs. It's that simple. When Ron, Jamison, and Meeks aren't hitting their shots, it's going to be a long night. Add in Pau who's not exactly a floor spacer to begin with and teams just sag the pain like they did last year.

It's more a problem with personnel to me then anything right now. There's going to be some changes by Feb regarding this roster. We're old, slow, and our bench needs a solid scorer off of it that can be CONSISTENT.

D'Antoni can only so much. Although, he did accept the job with this roster; so the responsibility to produce wins is ultimately up to him no matter who's on the roster...

metta said in his post game that dantoni called every play for the game. maybe that had something to do with it.

Pig Miller wrote:

revgen wrote:

Pig Miller wrote:^can we blame him for not understanding his personnel or defensive matchups on the last play of the game?

No. The problem on the last play of the game was letting Hill go to his right. Metta should have forced him to his left.

correct, we let hill go right. wouldn't j. hill or dwight on west have made more sense?

Pacers had 24.5 seconds to get a shot off. If they shot the ball with 5 secs on the clock and missed, they could have fouled. I think he wanted somebody who could make a FT. Pau made 4 in row just a few minutes earlier.

Ariza3 wrote:metta said in his post game that dantoni called every play for the game. maybe that had something to do with it.

I have a hard time believing that D'Antoni yelled "Kobe Ball! Kobe Ball!" everytime they brought the ball down the floor.

revgen wrote:

Vasashi17 wrote:^^^With FTs you're absolutely right. However with FG shooting, that is all on the coach. He's there as an offensive mind and if that offense turns into 28 3 point attempts then what the hell is he doing? When Phil was here, we were getting higher percentage shots closer to the rim.

If the shot is high percentage and we miss those at a high clip, then you can live with it. But shooting from the perimeter and missing at a high clip makes you think that there was a better shot opportunity to be had. Just cause they're open shots, doesn't mean they need to be taken. The defense will give you a wide open shot from half court...why not take it?

Because as I explained before, everytime they got it into the paint, they were hacked and sent to the line. And guess what happened? They missed FT's. So they stopped attacking, deferred to Kobe and jacked 3's. That lack of aggressiveness isn't on the coach. It's on the players. Unless you really think D'Antoni was shouting "Give the ball to Kobe! Give it to Kobe!", I don't see how you can lay the blame on him for this one.

Since D'Antoni stepped on court, 21, 26, 27, 22, 28 from 3. It isn't as cut and dry as looking at 3 point attempts, but guess in which 2 games we won...hint: lower 3 point attempts.

This isn't just one game where it happened...its been happening. The triangle easily utilizes our bigs. This offense, so far does not. The fact that you need one player to make it work and maybe at best 2, leaves me concerned.

Hack a Dwight is in full effect, but you still can give it to him in positions where he doesn't have to go running into the double team to get hacked...where he can catch it up high and keep it there to finish. You are talking about 12 attempts, so somewhere around 6 possessions. Compare that to Morris and Metta taking 8 3ball attempts. That shouldn't even be the case. Dwight was 7-10 in the paint and some of those free throw attempts came from and1s. Thats something like 13-14 shot attempts total. Granted he was in foul trouble, but he needs more touches in the paint where he can score much easier instead of trying to create on his own and either getting it stripped or drawing the whistle. D'Antoni is supposedly this offensive guru and he doesn't need Nash to get Dwight easier looks at the bucket...or does he?

Cause if he does, why are we paying him? Bernie would have been sufficient if they didn't want Phil.

revgen wrote:

Ariza3 wrote:metta said in his post game that dantoni called every play for the game. maybe that had something to do with it.

I have a hard time believing that D'Antoni yelled "Kobe Ball! Kobe Ball!" everytime they brought the ball down the floor.

No but when a play is called and guys execute it wrong, THEN kobe has to play kobe ball. not saying its all dantoni but im sure that all the play calling didnt help...especially when tonight guys shot terrible.

I do believe Dantoni needs to figure out a way to get Dwight and Pau more involved. Dwight was more involved tonight...he got a good amount of touches even with Kobe shooting 28 times. (just one of those kobe games we have to live with...super efficient all season then a few of these games, it happens).

I think the key is utilizing Pau correctly and getting to him early. whenever he gets a few buckets early the game is good from him. if not then he just lurks around all game and cruises through it unnoticed. the only time you notice pau is when he does something wrong or has 1 good pass to dwight.

And people were wondering why Raja Bell's name has surfaced.

I repeat, to make Dantoni's system work....we NEEEEEEED shooters.

We only have Meeks. MWP is hot and cold, too streaky. Kobe is a scorer not a shooter. D12 can't shoot for ish. Pau can't hit the side of a barn these days.

PHX killed you because Nash was surrounded by CONSISTENT shooters at every position.

LAL front office must have known this before they hired Dantoni right?

Let's relax before last night the previous games that D'Antoni has coached we were 2nd in the NBA in 3pt shooting. THe good sign last night I thought our defense was a lot better; just not on that last play.

revgen wrote:I don't care what offense you run. Triangle, Princeton, Fun 'n Gun, or whatever. If you can't A) Make a wide open shot and B) Make a FT, you're cooked. Blaming Mike D'Antoni for these two atrocities doesn't make any sense. All offenses are designed to get create open shots. We had them. We didn't deliver. Plain and simple.

here's the problem though Rev............

did we not already know this was not a great jump shooting team before the hire?

did we know this team's average age before the hire?

did everyone not realize MDA is have a great PG or bust?

In the end great coaches work with their roster and develop an offense and defensive philosophy that matches what the coach is working with roster wise.

You can't honestly say that is what is going on here......... this is more about visions of Showtime while working with a roster that is anything but a Showtime like roster.

A good coach would realize that..... a good FO should realize that.

This thing will get better as the year goes on but if you are comfortable with your season hanging on a 39 yr old PG that has never won the title even while running at his peak than I'm not sure what to say.............

revgen wrote:

Ariza3 wrote:metta said in his post game that dantoni called every play for the game. maybe that had something to do with it.

I have a hard time believing that D'Antoni yelled "Kobe Ball! Kobe Ball!" everytime they brought the ball down the floor.

really ?

because

-in Phoenix all it was was Nash pounding the rock to create shots in pick and role action if the break was not there

-in NY it was ball stopping ISOs all over the place if the break was not there

-so now with LA you expect him to be different? without Nash right now what did you honestly think they were going to run the offense? someone has to pound the rock in MDAs system......... that has been a constant with MDA ball............. without Nash who is the best ball handler/playmaker on the team? the one and only Kobe Bean Bryant so now you would be surprised if he asked |Bryant to pound the rock? please.... that is a stretch for a smart guy like you Rev.

^ or maybe Indiana just has our number? We lost to them at home under Phil in 2010. We lost to them at home under Mike Brown last year. And now we lost to them under D'Antoni

People do need to be a bit more patient however .............. yes we are 1 game below .500 right now but if you look at how long it took Miami to figure things out with multiple superstars than one should summarize that we might be right on track. It's going to take some time for guys to know and react to each other...... both on offense and defense......... with MDAs system player familiarity between the rock pounder and his teammates is extremely important to make this system hum..... right now there is still issues with familiarity IMO and it's being compounded without having a real pure PG available right now. Nash is the only pure PG on this team.

Whether it should be this way or not Nash is now the single most important player on this roster. The guy they can't loose on the floor for full games..... IMO this team now under MDA can survive injuries to a ST like Bryant or Howard but he can;t afford to lose Nash at all cost.

That is and will continue to be the biggest concern for the Lakers now.... a 39 yr old PG's health thanks to the so called offensive genius HC and the brain-trust behind the hire.

The Rock wrote:^ or maybe Indiana just has our number? We lost to them at home under Phil in 2010. We lost to them at home under Mike Brown last year. And now we lost to them under D'Antoni

They're a tough team to beat. Love that roster.. So many pieces we could use. George, West, Hill, Granger.. Hansboro might be a good fit.

I completely agree with MC...the coach and his direction make a huge impact on how the team develops. Bringing up Mami from 2 seasons ago...they developed a super team and were in trouble, like us, going 9-8 to start the season. That's when Spoels looked in the mirror and said that his offense was the problem. He was using Lebron wrong in the offense and from there we know how it played out.

Once the players buy into something, teams just seem to go on a tear. It happened with Phil when he first got here...happened with Boston when they first put their super team together....continues to happen for Pop and it eventually happened for the aforementioned Spoelstra in Miami. Carmelo had a hard time buying into Dantonis system and that team went nowhere until he resigned. Now we know Nash buys into it, but he's still a way's away....Kobe says he believes in it, till our so called jump shooters start missing and then he does what's natural to him - Kobe ball...then there is Pau, who doesn't seem to fit at the moment and probably questions the offense....and then there is Dwight and the first thing he said with the hire is that it will help Nash (and didn't say anything about himself) and that this team is full of old guys who need to get into shape to play that type of ball....not really a screaming endorsement of buying into what D'antoni is selling.

Finally there is the fanbase. Some think it will work and others do not. Of course we all would love to have another Showtime team, but non-believers look to the roster and can't help but think..."what the f was management thinking with this hire?" Most of us will just have to agree to disagree, but seriously we all want what's best for the Lakers and some of us think, it isn't D'Antoni...oh and that Jimmy guy!

MC wrote:

revgen wrote:I don't care what offense you run. Triangle, Princeton, Fun 'n Gun, or whatever. If you can't A) Make a wide open shot and B) Make a FT, you're cooked. Blaming Mike D'Antoni for these two atrocities doesn't make any sense. All offenses are designed to get create open shots. We had them. We didn't deliver. Plain and simple.

here's the problem though Rev............

did we not already know this was not a great jump shooting team before the hire?

did we know this team's average age before the hire?

did everyone not realize MDA is have a great PG or bust?

In the end great coaches work with their roster and develop an offense and defensive philosophy that matches what the coach is working with roster wise.

You can't honestly say that is what is going on here......... this is more about visions of Showtime while working with a roster that is anything but a Showtime like roster.

A good coach would realize that..... a good FO should realize that.

This thing will get better as the year goes on but if you are comfortable with your season hanging on a 39 yr old PG that has never won the title even while running at his peak than I'm not sure what to say.............

If you have a team of players who aren't consistent jumpshooters and bigs who are inconsistent in the post either because they lack refinement (D12) or because they lack the physical/mental fortitude (Pau), getting easier shots in transition makes sense.

Nash never won a title the same way Stockton, Iverson, CP3, and Payton didn't win titles. The last team that had a superstar PG as their best player and won a title was the Pistons with Isiah Thomas. Kobe is the best player on this team. That wasn't the case in Phoenix. This 39 year old PG played like he was 39 years old when he was 30 years old. So I'm not concerned about his age as long as he can get himself on the court.

To start the 2007/2008 season we went 9-8 (ahem under Phil)

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=271202013

that team eventually reached 1st place about a month and a half later in January

We've had slow starts under Phil too where things haven't clicked

As much as I disliked this hire, mainly because I think it was rushed once again and that D' Antoni is nowhere near as good a coach or as good a fit with this personnel as Jerry Sloan or Phil would have been, the deed is done.

I don't think we can even come close to fairly judging D' Antoni until much later this season. We have to see what D' Antoni is able to do once Nash gets back.

I'm truly hoping we give Pau time in the new system as well. I don't want him traded until we see everyone out on the court healthy and playing together.

Until then I am truly hoping we can play at least .500 ball. But we've got some tough opponents coming up. I think it's going to be hard.

I definitely don't think D' Antoni had much or anything really to do with the loss against Indy. Dwight needs to do better than 25% at the free throw line. We all understand that this is his achilles heel, but come on now. If he shot a lousy 50% which is his career number we would have won that game. 25% is just shameful. You can't win a ball game with that if you take as many FT's as he does at that percentage, at least not any close ones.

We're stuck with what we have right now - we're down two PG's and we're just squeaking by. But a lot of teams would struggle in our shoes, too. Imagine the Clippers without CP3 for 2 months, OKC without Westbrook for 2 months, etc. . . . And without their main backup PG's too.

Everybody needs to chill a little bit. Thankfully we no longer have Brown who couldn't seem to win a game this season. We're on the path now, but we need our PG's back. When we do we won't have Kobe turning the ball over 10 times a game.

One more thing about Indiana...they beat us in 08 where we blew a 15 point 4th Q lead and lost on a buzzer beater tip in. This team just has our number

http://www.nba.com/lakers/news/081202_gameday_pacers.html



We just play some really really tight games in recent years vs this team

2008/2009 L in Indy by 1 point on Troy Murphy buzzer beater

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=281202011

2008/2009 again Kobe hit a gamewinner over Jarret Jack


2010/2011 they won by 3 points vs us



2011/2012...beat us by 2 points




2 nights ago beat us on a buzzer beater. This team matches up well vs us


Right now we're losing to teams like Indiana, Sacramento, Utah, Memphis that we usually lose to anyways (Things we did even under Phil during championship years). If we lose 1 of the next two...vs DEN or vs ORL then the concerns are really warranted. Right now we're where we're supposed to be considering no Nash, coaching change and lack of time together by this squad of new players

The Rock wrote:One more thing about Indiana...they beat us in 08 where we blew a 15 point 4th Q lead and lost on a buzzer beater tip in. This team just has our number

2008/2009 again Kobe hit a gamewinner over Jarret Jack


If we lose 1 of the next two...vs DEN or vs ORL then the concerns are really warranted. Right now we're where we're supposed to be considering no Nash, coaching change and lack of time together by this squad of new players

29-6. Why aren't we like that this year?!?!? I just don't get it. And I won't be surprised if we lose to denver. They've been playing great recently.

MDA is starting to annoy me with his comments about Nash. You don't say things like the team will be better when X player gets back. Because if he doesn't come back he's saying we are screwed

Well, but we are going to be better when he comes back. You have an elite PG who is out right now... of course we're going to be better. Imagine the Celtics without Rondo for example. Or the Clippers without CP3 etc. etc.

Teams learn to play through injuries. There have been countless instances where a key guy goes down but the team keeps winning. MDA is basically giving the impression that this team can't win without Nash which is really not an appropriate mindset to have