Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

noobiew · by **noobiew** on Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:07 pm

The consensus around the league currently toward the Lakers is : "Don't judge the Lakers until Nash returns."

Maybe only me but I am freakingly don't like and hate this, why put so much pressure and high stake on a 39 yrs old PG shoulders. Nash didn't come to Lakers for this ****, it's aren't fair to him.

So we couldn't win without Nash even with other 3HOFers (Kobe, Pau, Dwight) currently playing for us? smh

karacha · by **karacha** on Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:15 pm

Pau is not playing that well anymore, Dwight is good, but is still not at 100% and is getting used to his new teammates. Kobe is really good, no question. But every new team needs time to gel, no matter what. Miami had very nice roster after "The Decision" but they were a .500 team until the famous "players meeting" etc. Even then it took them a year to really get it and win the championship. We also had a coaching change... so, it's not that easy to simply show up and dominate. That takes time. Young Kobe and Shaq also needed time, and they were the best players in the league.

We don't have our starting PG and we're missing his backup. You can't expect the team to click without its main facilitator.

Jellincon · by **Jellincon** on Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:18 pm

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:Teams learn to play through injuries. There have been countless instances where a key guy goes down but the team keeps winning. MDA is basically giving the impression that this team can't win without Nash which is really not an appropriate mindset to have

This. I remember in his first interview as Lakers head coach he said the quote below which reaffirms what you said.

"It depends how I feel," he says. "I think miraculously I'll start feeling better when Steve [Nash] is feeling better. I've already tried coaching without him and that didn't work out too well, so I'm thinking I'll be smart this time."

http://www.clublakers.com/lakers-discussion/who-should-the-lakers-new-head-coach-t136312.html?hilit=Mike%20D'Antoni%20interview&start=2325

Vasashi17 · by **Vasashi17** on Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:52 pm

Kobe has the flu and gets left in for about 44 minutes of the game. You set it up where a guy that played through illness and got 40 points is now the bad guy due to his excessive ball control and 10 TOs. You set it up where everybody is saying that none of his teammates, which include 2 allstar bigs, was enough help for Kobe, which is why he decided to take over the game...meanwhile his primary backup played only 7 minutes and took only 3 shots....oh and did I mention that Kobe had the flu?

Meanwhile, you have Pop with enough bulge in his trousers, to send his big 3 back home and rest their vet bodies for a game or two so that they will have enough juice for the real show come April. He essentially gives the middle finger to the paying fans, the opposing team who happen to be the NBA champs and the Sith lord of the NBA...and he did it all for what he believed was the best scenario for his team. Meanwhile, the guys he is coaching tonight are up 4 late in the 3rd in Miami....oh and did I mention that they are the NBA champs with their big 3 playing?

That's coaching ladies and gents...and that is what the fans and this team deserve. Instead, we get a guy who plays a sick man to death and later tries to convince everybody that our success is all predicated on a 39 year old man that is coming off a fracture. Oh, but he does like how we played defense...which even he will tell you, has nothing to do with him.

Sigh...oh and did I mention that I'm really not in favor of this offense or this coach? :man10:

noobiew · by **noobiew** on Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:05 pm

I must say Pop is a GOAT coach

Ariza3 · by **Ariza3** on Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:20 pm

Pop is an amazing coach but people pay money to see their favorite players play especially in big games. The Lakers would never allow their coach to rest our 4 best players in a huge game. San Antonio is it's own little world and they have like no media present too.

As great as an idea of resting players for games just so they don't get tired is there is no way lakers organization would allow their coach to do that. maybe 1 or 2 but not the 4 best players. no way. fans would be furious. I know I would be if I paid big money to go to a game that I thought would be a good one only to find that Kobe Nash Jamison and Pau aren't playing. that would suck especially for fans who can only make it to 1 game a year if not less in their life.

But Pop is a great coach and San Antonio lets him do that. Sucks for their fans sometimes but in the end it pays off for them so more power to him

Vasashi17 · by **Vasashi17** on Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:37 pm

As a paying fan (going to a game next week), I personally wouldn't mind watching a game where our all-stars sat in December, as long as come June, I get to be part of a free parade. That scenario is much better than paying to see our stars play in December and then come June, pay a bar tab to drown my sorrows as I see Miami win another title....ah, who am I kidding, a bar tab would probably be in the equation either way. :man12:

Anyways, the Spurs big 3 are not being showcased in Miami, so the majority of SA fans don't mind what Pop did since they're comfortably watching this at home. I don't think resting your guys during a 3 games in 4 nights scenario is necessarily a bad move...but again, you can't make everybody happy and need the balls and confidence in your coaching to do so.

Jellincon · by **Jellincon** on Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:04 pm

What Pop is doing also gives lots of confidence and development to his bench and role players. Imagine the confidence boost those role players are getting after they just came within 6 points of beating a relatively healthy Heat team.

On the flip side, D'Antoni has always been known as a guy who has a short rotation. Doing that may have worked in Phoenix with a relatively young squad but are starters are too old to be playing heavy minutes every night.

D'Antoni doesn't have to necessarily not play are starters during a 3 games in 4 nights scenario but he should be aware of their minutes and keep them limited on the 2nd and/or 3rd game.

MC · by MC on Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:04 am

^

Vash you hit the nail right on the head when it comes to Pop. He does what is best for his team to put them in the best position to win championships......... to ****** with the Commish, the owners and the paying fans of other buildings............... in the end it's about the prize and you can bet your *** that fans will continue to watch no matter what idf you are always in contention.

The Commish is overstepping his boundaries as usual in his quest for overall greed............ F....YOU Stern!

I just wish we still had a coach with the testicular fortitude to do the3 same kind of things with an even older team than the Spurs roster. If I were the coach here I would put up the middle figure to the Buss family, Fans and commish if it meant putting my team in position to win when it really counts..... not when the only thing that matters is the owners counting their $ from opposing stars coming to their building.

wcsoldier81 · by **wcsoldier81** on Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:17 am

I'd take Pop strategy over our habit to run our starters into the ground as we've been doing for some time ... guys like Pau or Kobe should have been in street clothes on back to back games here and there for the last three seasons ... you can be sure Pau would be sitting right now if Pop were our coach , what's the point of playing him with tendinitis , he's a complete liability out there ... thinking long term , it keeps your starters "fresh" for the players AND give your role players more confidence because they feel more needed ..

Ariza3 · by **Ariza3** on Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:00 am

I think resting starters is important like Pop does and prob why they're always top of the conference some how. BUT I do think resting that many is kinda messed up for the fans. it was an away game and was still a close game that the heat prob should have lost but still. I think resting Pau would be key and a good idea as Jamisom can start and Hill and Sacre are itching for more minutes, Ebanks as well if we play small ball ( which we should look into IMO). But I do think if we rest Nash Kobe Pau and Dwight the product our team would be putting out for the fans would in no way be as good as what the spurs just did against the heat...that's my only problem

the spurs did that to the heat without Parker, Ginobili, Duncan, Green, Capt. Jack, & Leonard. that's unreal coaching. we could never do that do the heat without our main guys. no way

wcsoldier81 · by **wcsoldier81** on Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:34 am

Ariza3 wrote:I think resting starters is important like Pop does and prob why they're always top of the conference some how. BUT I do think resting that many is kinda messed up for the fans. it was an away game and was still a close game that the heat prob should have lost but still. I think resting Pau would be key and a good idea as Jamisom can start and Hill and Sacre are itching for more minutes, Ebanks as well if we play small ball ( which we should look into IMO). But I do think if we rest Nash Kobe Pau and Dwight the product our team would be putting out for the fans would in no way be as good as what the spurs just did against the heat...that's my only problem

the spurs did that to the heat without Parker, Ginobili, Duncan, Green, Capt. Jack, & Leonard. that's unreal coaching. we could never do that do the heat without our main guys. no way

I'm not talking about sitting them all for the same game ... but I feel we have been horrible at resting our key players ... sure our depth isn't SAS like but maybe there is such a level difference because we don't develop them well and don't expect much from them
... too much weight are put on our stars players and too much is expected from them .. by instance I found ridiculous Kobe still has to do so much and play so many minutes after 17 freaking seasons in the league ... there is a pb here ...

lakersin4 · by **lakersin4** on Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:16 am

Ariza3 wrote:I think resting starters is important like Pop does and prob why they're always top of the conference some how. BUT I do think resting that many is kinda messed up for the fans. it was an away game and was still a close game that the heat prob should have lost but still. I think resting Pau would be key and a good idea as Jamisom can start and Hill and Sacre are itching for more minutes, Ebanks as well if we play small ball ( which we should look into IMO). But I do think if we rest Nash Kobe Pau and Dwight the product our team would be putting out for the fans would in no way be as good as what the spurs just did against the heat...that's my only problem

the spurs did that to the heat without Parker, Ginobili, Duncan, Green, Capt. Jack, & Leonard. that's unreal coaching. we could never do that do the heat without our main guys. no way

I don't really think that's fair to blame on coaching.. If D'antoni had been our coach for as long as Pop & had a team full of pieces that fit. Then maybe you make that comparison. The problem isn't just coaching, it's instablity. I think we're going to deal Pau or at the minimum, Jordan Hill + pieces at the deadline for guys that fit Pringles system. You have to have key roleplayers to get to the finals & win. If the deadline passes without a move I don't see good things ahead. Pau just doesn't fit with Dwight here.

Punk-101 · by **Punk-101** on Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:22 am

"Why can't MDA coach without Nash?"

The better question is: "How good can MDA possibly be at implementing a new offense that is HEAVILY PG reliant on the fly without a training camp, when equipped with nothing but 3rd string PGs who are so bad that Kobe has to play both SG AND PG?"

No duh we're going to look better with Nash. But we'd also look much MUCH better with most average PGs, even Steve Blake.

Punk-101 · by **Punk-101** on Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:27 am

^^Interesting. What makes you think that?

Lakerjones · by **Lakerjones** on Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:18 am

lakerswiz wrote:Teams issues are still there. They haven't disappeared. Mike Brown's firing hasn't been what anyone had hoped it would be. Pau and Kobe are still playing the high amount of minutes. Kobe is averaging more minutes a game. And we're supposed to be a fast paced team for the entire season?

Bench is still crap. Players are still getting used to each other and are figuring out the chemistry (by far the biggest issue of the season, not even close). Defense is crap (goes hand in hand with team chemistry, this need to be brought up more). Nash's defense is going to be worse than what we're getting at the PG spot right now. And with the issues of help side defense and our two big guys under the basket not being 100% mentally or physically, we'll get eaten alive once they dribble past Nash.

Still no consistent 3 point shooting outside of Kobe and World Peace. Nash should help with that with his shooting. Meeks is shooting 31.7% from 3 point land. Next is World Peace at 38%. The next three are Morris, Duhon and Blake, who won't be playing all that often once Nash is back and haven't taken too many attempts yet at this point in the season. And then we get to Kobe at 42%. And what's interesting about that is Kobe is at an all-time low for assisted 3 point shots meaning he's hitting them on pull up jumpers and isn't in the corner like Ron Artest is.

I'm still iffy about the offense being run through someone other than Kobe Bryant. I do trust Steve Nash and think he's probably the best candidate to replace Kobe as the show runner, but I'm still eager to see how Kobe plays with an actual point guard.

I fully expect to win in June. No doubt in my mind. But I think it'll still get worse before it gets better. But once it gets better, well we'll all be drunk out of our minds celebrating in June.

^^ Great post Lakerswiz! :bow:

Finwë · by **Finwë** on Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:38 am

No doubt in your mind that we're winning the chip? Wish I could say the same.

therealdeal · by **therealdeal** on Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:18 am

lakerswiz wrote: Defense is crap

JoelMyersScrotalSack · by **JoelMyersScrotalSack** on Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:17 pm

Defense isn't crap at all. We're 6th in the league in DRtg right now and we're also one of the fastest paced teams in the league so the amount of points we are giving up is rather impressive

I don't know what was going on in the game against the Pacers, but we had A LOT of shots rim out that would have gone down on any other night. I don't think we'll see too many nights like that. Our offense will improve as the season goes on there is no doubt about that, and the defense has looked better.

gill · by **gill** on Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:18 pm

The defense is the only good thing so far this season (surprising for a Mike D'Antoni team). We're like #1 in Rebound Differential and top 4 in opponent points per possession.

Two biggest issues we have right now: TURNOVERS AND MISSED FREE THROWS. That's ALL on the players. Nash can definitely help on both fronts when he returns.

I don't know what was going on in the game against the Pacers, but we had A LOT of shots rim out that

Metta and Jamison had like 3 or 4 3 point shots that rimmed out. :bang:

gill · by **gill** on Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:25 pm

lakerswiz wrote:I don't care where we're ranked. We're 7-8. Our defense is an issue.

Then we all just have to disagree seeing as you won't even consider it.

revgen · by **revgen** on Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:31 pm

According to 82 games, we're giving up 104 points per possession.

Which ties us at at the #12 spot in the league with 4 other teams. So basically we don't "suck" on D, but we're not great either. We're an average defensive team. We need to improve and get better in this area.

Here's the chart of the best and worst defensive teams in terms of giving up points per 100 possessions. These results were gathered on November 25th.

1 Hawks - 99 pPts
2 Pacers - 100 pPts
3-1 Bulls - 101 pPts
3-2 Clippers - 101 pPts
5-1 Grizzlies - 102 pPts
5-2 Spurs - 102 pPts
5-3 Orlando - 102 pPts
5-4 76ers - 102 pPts
9-1 Bucks - 103 pPts
9-2 Timberwolves - 103 pPts
9-3 Wizards - 103 pPts
12-1 Lakers - 104 pPts
12-2 Warriors - 104 pPts
12-3 Rockets - 104 pPts
12-4 Bobcats - 104 pPts
12-5 Thunder - 104 pPts
17-1 Nets - 105 pPts
17-2 Nuggets - 105 pPts
17-3 Knicks - 105 pPts
17-4 Jazz - 105 pPts
21 Pistons - 106 pPts
22-1 Celtics - 107 pPts
22-2 Mavs - 107 pPts
24-1 Heat - 108 pPts
24-2 Kings - 108 pPts
24-3 Raptors - 108 pPts
27-1 Cavs - 109 pPts
27-2 Suns - 109 pPts
29 Blazers - 109 pPts
30 Hornets - 111 pPts

gill · by **gill** on Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:34 pm

^Interesting how the Heat is ranked lower, and we're tied with OKC

JoelMyersScrotalSack · by **JoelMyersScrotalSack** on Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:43 pm

Those are old stats

As of today, we give up 101.7 points per 100 possessions according to basketball reference which is good for 6th in the league. According to Hollinger's formula we give up 98.3 points per 100 which puts us at 5th.

^Interesting how the Heat is ranked lower, and we're tied with OKC

The Heat have been really bad defensively, but it's not that big of a deal. The 01 Lakers were in a similar situation and then turned it up in the playoffs and became by far the best defensive team in the league. I expect the Heat to do something similar

revgen · by **revgen** on Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:58 pm

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:Those are old stats

As of today, we give up 101.7 points per 100 possessions according to basketball reference which is good for 6th in the league. According to Hollinger's formula we give up 98.3 points per 100 which puts us at 5th.

They aren't old. They are different metrics. Basketball-Reference uses DRtg which is a flawed stat that "calculates" possession counts based on rebounds, TO's, and other stats. 82games has real geeks who actually watch each game and count the possessions by hand.

I trust 82games more than I trust a stat that "calculates" possessions.

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