Mike D'Antoni Discussion: RESIGNS AS LAKERS COACH (184)

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby easyguy on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:54 pm

fkmikebrown wrote:let's get kurt outta the studio and on the bench as our defensive coach



I enjoyed Kurt being on the broadcast team, the coach and Horry not so much.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Doc Brown on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:56 pm

easyguy wrote:
fkmikebrown wrote:let's get kurt outta the studio and on the bench as our defensive coach



I enjoyed Kurt being on the broadcast team, the coach and Horry not so much.


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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Lakerfantilidie on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:57 pm

Doc Brown wrote:D12 and Kobe should never play 12 minute stretches. If you don't trust your bench in the regular season, you're just waiting to get a beat down in the post season.

We win and look good when we win, when the starters aren't playing 40 minutes, the bench is mixed in with the starters and the bench has a chance to get out there and play, we look good.

The bench pushed the lead to 7, immediately Jamison/Meeks come out and the lead disappears in less than 2 minutes.

Trust your bench. Jamison/Meeks/Hill can play, let them play.

D'Antoni notorious for seven man rotation. Dont get your hopes up.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby lakersyunowin on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:58 pm

easyguy wrote:
fkmikebrown wrote:let's get kurt outta the studio and on the bench as our defensive coach



I enjoyed Kurt being on the broadcast team, the coach and Horry not so much.

no i like him too. i just think he could help us a bit lol
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Lakerfantilidie on Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:00 pm

Tonights loss on coach. No discipline. Allowing Howard to crank up jumpers, no sense of urgency
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby 432J on Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:01 pm

fkmikebrown wrote:
easyguy wrote:
fkmikebrown wrote:let's get kurt outta the studio and on the bench as our defensive coach



I enjoyed Kurt being on the broadcast team, the coach and Horry not so much.

no i like him too. i just think he could help us a bit lol

yeah let's get kurt back on the bench to round out phil's...oh wait

nevermind
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Lakerjones on Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:04 pm

JLaker17 wrote:I liked his rotations to start the game, but that ended really quickly. Meeks goes off last game and then barely plays? If you don't want to take Kobe out then leave him in at the 3 with Meeks at the 2. Hill could have been used just to give Dwight/Pau a break. Especially since Pau can't play past 15 minutes it seems.


^^ Agreed. Sadly, after I praised him last game for his good rotations lately - this D' Antoni just totally screwed up. The bench was playing well and had a lead and he got antsy and subbed in Kobe and Howard too soon, only to see Hack A Dwight destroy any chance they had. Meanwhile no Hill at all? Why? D' Antoni seems to hate that guy. And no Pau down the stretch? Big mistake. Jamison wasn't exactly tearing it up out there tonight. And what happened to Meeks' minutes? That was not good.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby lakersin4 on Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:18 pm

No reason for Ebanks to see the floor in a game Meeks only got 9 minutes in. Kobe should have been slid to the 3, whatever it takes. This guy can really shoot & isn't a liability on defense. He needs a minimum of 15 MPG.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby lotus on Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:25 pm

"7 seconds or less", I think that's actually Dantoni's defensive philosophy.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Ariza3 on Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:29 pm

he's gotta wake these guys up. gotta have them give energy from the tip off. not any of this slow start bs. bc we never get the energy if we don't start with it.

also he's gotta find Meeks more minutes. takes him out the second he drills a big 3. unbelievable. I think he was just trying Ebanks out but the only time Ebanks should play is with Meeks when Kobe isn't in.

Hill should have been in too. when our team needs energy you put in a guy like hill and Meeks. so stupid today. this team has to wake up and realize that just bc you blow out a team one day doesn't mean you can walk through the next. and responsibility goes to the players AND the coach.

season is still young and we have no Nash or even Blake but still. this team should at least come out with the right energy at least. shots don't fall so what. if you play with energy and intensity you'll prob win more games than lose imo
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Finwë on Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:38 pm

The Rock wrote:
of course we'll beat the Magic, I'll be at that game :man1:


Aw, I'm sorry you had to see that garbage up close.
Hopefully we'll take the next game you go to.

Anything to point out that us watching on screen may've not seen?
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby quartzcharm on Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:39 pm

113 points for Orlando? :disagree:
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Lakerjones on Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:40 pm

Rooscooter wrote:It's looking like we are going to have to out score our competition to win this year. I don't see this defense getting any better. Hill is going to sit in favor of Jamison for offensive purposes and he's worse than Pau at the 4 on the rotations. It looks like Kobe is going to average 36 minutes and thus will rest on the defensive end and be sapped in the 4th quarters and Dwight will be worn out as well trying to cover everyone on the opposing team.

I had my concerns about MDA fixing our issues because they involve the end of the floor I'm not sure he understands...


^^ Absolutely. And for this reason I still question the FO. What you described is exactly D' Antoni's coaching philosophy so why is this not a surprise. His whole philosophy has always been to outscore the competition, hence the 'Antoni (no D) nickname.

My question is why then were the FO so sold on him? Do they think that philosophy will lead to a championship? They are thinking this is the closest thing to Showtime? Showtime had Pat Riley at the helm, one of the toughest defensive coaches of all time. The guy who invented the term "Tenacious D!" The offense was spectacular because they had Magic Johnson in his prime running the show and the Cap to defer to in the half court set among some other terrific players of course.

This whole thing was grossly ill conceived if the Lakers FO are actually trying to win a chip. I will try to give this guy a chance, but still, the fact that they didn't even CALL Jerry Sloan on the phone - and instead had a 90 minute sit down with Dunleavy, just goes to show how this was yet another botched coaching search.

Sloan certainly would have addressed the defensive issues. That would have been the first order of business.

I just wonder with this hire if the FO actually cares about winning championships or just coming up with a better looking offensive product for their new TV contract. I said I would give this guy a chance and I am going to try as I've said. It's too early to blast him.

I just don't see how this is a good fit. To me, it's like the mirror image of Mike Brown. One guy has no offense, the other guy has no D. One guy hates shooting guards, the other guy hates power forwards (Hill, Pau). To me, both coaches have been quite inflexible. I would hope that D' Antoni would show some more flexibility in the future and also address the D. Otherwise I see a similar fate for him.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby The Rock on Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:41 pm

I dont understand why he played Meeks only 9 mins tonight, especially with Kobe and MWP having no legs to play defense we could've used some energy to cheese those ORL shooters around screens. Also DNP for Hill?
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Armani on Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:53 pm

Just been thinking about this... the Spurs bench lineup of DeColo/Neal/Bonner/Splitter can hang in with the Heat... and we can't do the same with all this talent... against the Orlando Magic. There's a world of difference in the coaching and culture between the two teams. We are a far way from being elite.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Finwë on Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:22 am

Armani wrote:Just been thinking about this... the Spurs bench lineup of DeColo/Neal/Bonner/Splitter can hang in with the Heat... and we can't do the same with all this talent... against the Orlando Magic. There's a world of difference in the coaching and culture between the two teams. We are a far way from being elite.

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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby lakersin4 on Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:28 am

Armani wrote:Just been thinking about this... the Spurs bench lineup of DeColo/Neal/Bonner/Splitter can hang in with the Heat... and we can't do the same with all this talent... against the Orlando Magic. There's a world of difference in the coaching and culture between the two teams. We are a far way from being elite.

Pop has been there what, 17 or 18 seasons? The situations aren't even close to comparable. When D'antoni had been in PHX for a while, he had some stacked teams that ran the system to perfection as well. We have a ways to go before we start seeing the system win us games like the Spurs. Nash is the key to that obviously.. If he can pick up D'antoni's system where he left off, we're in great shape.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Center Court on Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:30 am

are people really going to judge MDA on this?

His whole offense is based around Nash. Nash isn't playing so therefor he is IMO just sorta "running" until Nash comes back then he'll let Steve do his thing. Which is a HUGE difference. night and day.

Defensively, he's never been a great coach. That said, IMO it's more about effort then it is x's and o's. Not sure it will get a whole lot better until games mean something, but it's on the players right now.

Rotations.. IMO he's still figuring things out. Hopefully he can still work J Hill into 12 mpg and cut Kobe's mins to 32.

was Phil a better choice, yes. But it is what it is. Hopefully, this team hits a new gear with Nash and in turn focus more on hustle and desire on D.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby thkthebest on Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:39 am

lakersin4 wrote:
Armani wrote:Just been thinking about this... the Spurs bench lineup of DeColo/Neal/Bonner/Splitter can hang in with the Heat... and we can't do the same with all this talent... against the Orlando Magic. There's a world of difference in the coaching and culture between the two teams. We are a far way from being elite.

Pop has been there what, 17 or 18 seasons? The situations aren't even close to comparable. When D'antoni had been in PHX for a while, he had some stacked teams that ran the system to perfection as well. We have a ways to go before we start seeing the system win us games like the Spurs. Nash is the key to that obviously.. If he can pick up D'antoni's system where he left off, we're in great shape.

When D'Antoni was coach of the Suns, the bench routinely lost leads. Whenever Nash sat, they started losing. When Nash missed games, they lost games. D'Antoni has never done anything close to what Popovich did/is doing with the Spurs.

But, I don't want to blame him for the loss tonight. The rotation was weird, but I'm guessing he's just trying to figure out what he has in terms of personnel. He hasn't been with this team for long. I wish the Lakers FO would have just fired Mike Brown before the season started and gave D'Antoni the entire training camp and preseason to work with our players. Ugh, what a waste.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby lakersin4 on Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:37 am

thkthebest wrote:
lakersin4 wrote:
Armani wrote:Just been thinking about this... the Spurs bench lineup of DeColo/Neal/Bonner/Splitter can hang in with the Heat... and we can't do the same with all this talent... against the Orlando Magic. There's a world of difference in the coaching and culture between the two teams. We are a far way from being elite.

Pop has been there what, 17 or 18 seasons? The situations aren't even close to comparable. When D'antoni had been in PHX for a while, he had some stacked teams that ran the system to perfection as well. We have a ways to go before we start seeing the system win us games like the Spurs. Nash is the key to that obviously.. If he can pick up D'antoni's system where he left off, we're in great shape.

When D'Antoni was coach of the Suns, the bench routinely lost leads. Whenever Nash sat, they started losing. When Nash missed games, they lost games. D'Antoni has never done anything close to what Popovich did/is doing with the Spurs.

But, I don't want to blame him for the loss tonight. The rotation was weird, but I'm guessing he's just trying to figure out what he has in terms of personnel. He hasn't been with this team for long. I wish the Lakers FO would have just fired Mike Brown before the season started and gave D'Antoni the entire training camp and preseason to work with our players. Ugh, what a waste.
Lots of guys got overpaid as a result of putting up career numbers with Nash & D'antoni.. Nash gets most of the credit for that but systems & roles can bring the best out of players.. I don't think roles are really defined yet & the system isn't really in place.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby havoc33 on Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:15 am

Center Court wrote:are people really going to judge MDA on this?

His whole offense is based around Nash.
Nash isn't playing so therefor he is IMO just sorta "running" until Nash comes back then he'll let Steve do his thing. Which is a HUGE difference. night and day.

Defensively, he's never been a great coach. That said, IMO it's more about effort then it is x's and o's. Not sure it will get a whole lot better until games mean something, but it's on the players right now.

Rotations.. IMO he's still figuring things out. Hopefully he can still work J Hill into 12 mpg and cut Kobe's mins to 32.

was Phil a better choice, yes. But it is what it is. Hopefully, this team hits a new gear with Nash and in turn focus more on hustle and desire on D.

Which is exactly why his system is flawed to begin with. It doesn't worry you that we are counting on a 50 year old Nash to save the season? If that is the case, it makes us extremely vulnerable.

IMO, with all this talent besides Nash there is no way we should be piling up losses in the way that we are doing right now. We should be able to adjust and win on a consistent basis. It looks like we are struggling because D'Antoni is not getting what he needs out of this roster because of the simple fact that our core players are too old. In other words, he's a bad fit.

Now, I didn't see last nights game yet, but why did Hill get a DNP? He is one of the few energy guys we have, and a good defender to boot. But of course, he doesn't fit with D'Antoni's offensive juggernaut gameplan, so he's already in the dog house, just like he was in New York.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Pig Miller on Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:14 am

i'm still not understanding the idea of hiring a coach because one guy (nash) fully fits the system.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Lakerjones on Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:59 am

lakerswiz wrote:So much of last night was due to the defensive lack of help side.

Generally the role Jordan Hill plays.

That's the tradeoff.

You take something away, you give something else up. Basketball 101.

We want to spread the floor with Jamison...you better have your D set and you better have Dwight / Pau playing exaggerated help defense.

The trade off is only going to be worth it a very small percentage of the time. Like games where we shoot 60% as a team from the field and 50% from the three point line.

I expect this to happen all season. We want to run with a team of aging players. :man10:

Even our running lineups are getting beat by other team's second strings and teams that won't make the playoffs.

I'll take my help side defense and scrappy play from Jordan Hill over Jamison's understanding of what position to be in to get the ball on offense 6 out of 7 days of the week.


^^ All of this is so true. Sad but true, actually. I expect the offense may cover some of the weaknesses when Nash returns, but none of this including the coaching hire exactly screams "championship" to me. It's just kind of farfetched in that regard. Showtime 2? Good luck with that. I just don't understand what the FO was thinking. And I'm not even talking about Phil. I'm talking about Sloan. I understand the inherent power struggle and difficulty in them going back to Phil considering Jim Buss's relationship with him. But Sloan didn't even get a phone call.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Lakerjones on Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:08 am

Pig Miller wrote:i'm still not understanding the idea of hiring a coach because one guy (nash) fully fits the system.


Me neither. The naysayers were claiming that Sloan would be too hard @$% of a coach for Dwight? And yet he would have truly utilized him whereas D' Antoni's system does not seem to feature him enough on either end of the floor. Not to mention Dwight seemed ecstatic when they were talking about bringing Phil back. Not so much when they dropped D' Antoni's name in and then hired him.

Of course the jury is still out on D' Antoni and we need to see how he does with Nash here. We all get that. But last night there were some pretty poor coaching (rotation) decisions that were troubling, and the decision to keep Dwight out there during the hack session didn't seem good either. The lack of D seems to go hand in hand with this coach so I don't know why there is huge surprise on that end of things. The entire philosophy is to outscore the opponent, not make defensive stops. I don't think you can truly focus on both things. They are basically mutually exclusive philosophies if you are playing this brand of uptempo ball with an emphasis on shooting threes. If you miss you are going to pay - those are lower percentage shots and they lead to long rebounds which lead to fast breaks for the other team. If you are an older team that puts you at a disadvantage on the other side of the ball.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:11 am

Unfortunately, without our floor general, our team is going to struggle, immensely. We're relying on Morris & Duhon. Well they've done an admirable job it nowhere compares to what Nash can give you 28-30 minutes he plays; it's not even in the same realm.

As for defense, that is a mere effort problem; with the exeption of Metta and Howard. MDA, though not a Defensive Guru needs to address these issues. Late on rotations, no energy on that end; it is sad. If this continues, we're not going very far in the playoffs.
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