Mike D'Antoni Discussion: RESIGNS AS LAKERS COACH (184)

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby purp n gold on Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:06 pm

:bang:

To excuse Dwight and put this all on MDA is crazy. I don't fault him for trying to instill confidence in Dwight with these "expendable" late-game pressure situations. We're not getting anywhere until Dwight starts hitting his free throws.

Shaq was the one exception where he'd dominate BOTH sides of the ball in order justify the poor FTs. But even then it wasn't excusable. It's the most basic basketball shot.

Dwight, and only Dwight, can get rid of hack-a-Dwight.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby trodgers on Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:08 pm

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:
trodgers wrote:Maybe this is some master plan that will pay huge dividends down the road. For the present, leaving Dwight in the game when they're fouling has lost us two games.


I think that's obviously what he's trying to do, but it's stupid and out of character. It's like he's trying to show that he isn't a "Master of Panic" coach, even though it's just smart decision making to take a guy out who is KILLING your team in the 4th when he's in the game.

Does he honestly expect Dwight to somehow start knocking down FTs in the 4th just because he won't take him out? Dwight may get lucky and make enough to survive in one game, but he could very well go 3/13 the next night and teams will continue to foul him. He's not going to magically be cured of his FT woes. MDA just doesn't get it

I don't know that it's obvious that that's what he's doing. And, BTW, although Amare had other things going on (time off b/c of knee surgery), D'Antoni did call upon him to become a better shooter and Amar'e moved from a 71% FT shooter to an 80% FT shooter. The huge difference was that Amar'e did it off the court, not in games as the team lost.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:11 pm

He did a lot of experimenting tonight. Obviously, he's trying to see who can fit his system and who can't. He didn't have the necessary training camp to evaluate rosters so he has to do that now whether for better or worse.

I'm not so mad at him for leaving Dwight in the game. Dwight made his last 4 of 6 free throws and we were actually up by two. This game shouldn't have came down to Dwight's FT's. We were up comfortably and had control of most of this game.

Defensively, we're horrible right now. We're having too outscore the opposition against teams because we can't play defense. They scored 33 points in the 4th quarter. Unfortunately, this is the area that MDA doesn't have an expertise in and short-term and long-term I'm concerned about.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby gill on Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:11 pm

Well, the finger had to be pointed at someone. What? Was Pau not available to be whipped tonight?
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby LooN3y on Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:17 pm

Fire D'Antoni



So It Begins



its obvious its not pau's fault
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Finwë on Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:19 pm

Mike Trudell ‏@LakersReporter
Mike D'Antoni said it certainly wasn't Howard's FT's that killed them. Howard made 4 of last 6. Problem was late defensive breakdowns.

I agree about those defensive breakdowns, but LOL @ his attempt to take the pressure off Howard and off himself for leaving him out there. To us watching the game and actually paying attention it was clear that D'Antoni's 4th quarter decisions (from going with a HORRENDUS unit for a long stretch and allowing HOU to chip into the lead, to leaving Howard during hack-a-dwight, to seemingly not drawing up effective plays to get good looks in the last 2 minutes) killed us.
As trodgers pointed out like 3 times already (because posters keep ignoring logical conclusions based on facts I guess), our woes got to their maximum level when hack-a-dwight started and that weak choker started bricking FTs..
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Finwë on Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:21 pm

LooN3y wrote:Fire D'Antoni



So It Begins



its obvious its not pau's fault

Well the record may not be Pau's fault (obviously), but it's also obvious that Pau has sucked for most of the season so far. It's not a blame game, it's pointing out that our 19M all-star caliber player has been deeply dissappointing.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby trodgers on Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:22 pm

Finwë wrote:
Mike Trudell ‏@LakersReporter
Mike D'Antoni said it certainly wasn't Howard's FT's that killed them. Howard made 4 of last 6. Problem was late defensive breakdowns.

I agree about those defensive breakdowns, but LOL @ his attempt to take the pressure off Howard and off himself for leaving him out there. To us watching the game and actually paying attention it was clear that D'Antoni's 4th quarter decisions (from going with a HORRENDUS unit for a long stretch and allowing HOU to chip into the lead, to leaving Howard during hack-a-dwight, to seemingly not drawing up effective plays to get good looks in the last 2 minutes) killed us.
As trodgers pointed out like 3 times already (because posters keep ignoring logical conclusions based on facts I guess), our woes got to their maximum level when hack-a-dwight started and that weak choker started bricking FTs..

:man10: He hit 4 of 6 in a grouping of 5 of 10. Selective memory, Mike. This is some frustrating stuff.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby LooN3y on Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:26 pm

Finwë wrote:
LooN3y wrote:Fire D'Antoni



So It Begins



its obvious its not pau's fault

Well the record may not be Pau's fault (obviously), but it's also obvious that Pau has sucked for most of the season so far. It's not a blame game, it's pointing out that our 19M all-star caliber player has been deeply dissappointing.




yea but pau being the whipping boy, playing out of position, trying to adjust isnt fair.

i mean what do people expect? him to shoot 100% from 15 ft? thats too much asking that from a 7 footer when all of his shots is basically are 15 footers. he hardly goes to the paint, and im sure its because dwight cries about him wanting the post and his touches.

nobody sees how we give him the ball downlow just because? its not even within the flow of the offense, i mean yea if he gets good position down low we should, but its fracking dwight.

and if pau is a little sore about that, he should be, cuz damn well if i was pau and with the skill sets i have, if i wasnt getting to the post at all and dwight with his no offensive capabilities was than id be a lil sore as well.

and come on no one can say "hes getting push around when hes posting up trying to score" because he hasnt posted up at all this season, what? once or twice a game doesnt count.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Vasashi17 on Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:30 pm

Not a fan of the hire one bit....but leaving Dwight out there to figure it out is something I actually applaud Mike for doing. The only way Dwight gets over this is if you put him in front of 18,000 screaming fans....he can shoot all he wants in practice, but there's nothing like the real thing. Also, the way he handled the guys' minutes was another thing that I can applaud him for. I thought he would ride Dwight into the ground with Pau not there, but kudos to Mike for paying attention.

That said, 21 3balls taken with Kobe taking 9 adding to this 31 total shots taken. Meanwhile, that guy bricking FTs at the end of the game only got 9 shot attempts and Pau wasn't even in the game. That's a huge problem. If we're relying on one man to fix this thing, then we're in trouble. For such an offensive genius, where he likes the ball to take on a rhythm with each pass, it doesn't seem like D'Antoni is doing anything for us offensively.

We're up 11 with 7 minutes to go...Harden and Lin ain't doing diddly offensively....yet people here keep focusing on D. Yeah, that's a problem, but look at what we're doing on O as well. It looks good when they go in, but the percentages catch up with you...and when you keep chucking away, that lead gets away from you in a hurry. Long misses ultimately lead to transition baskets if you do not secure the offensive board....and of course, this old team is going to do an awful job getting back on D if the opposition is already transitioning the other way.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby SeasonTicketHolder on Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:34 pm

purp n gold wrote::bang:

To excuse Dwight and put this all on MDA is crazy. I don't fault him for trying to instill confidence in Dwight with these "expendable" late-game pressure situations. We're not getting anywhere until Dwight starts hitting his free throws.


We shouldn't excuse Dwight but during post game interviews D'Antoni stated that he didn't take out Dwight because you don't do that to a player :freak2:

But it's okay to take out Pau because "you're trying to win the game"? You can't have it both ways. Dwight needs to put on "his" big boy pants and head to the pine when "hack a Dwight" becomes a viable option for the opponent. Once he gets it under control or the 2:00 minute mark (whatever fookin' comes first), then you re-insert him in the game. And yes Dwight, your free throws have cost us several games - don't fool yourself. Why would Kobe hand you the ball down the stretch when the team is just going to foul you to send you to the free throw line...smh
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby trodgers on Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:35 pm

^ Kobe should have shot far fewer threes. My only real complaint about his offensive game.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby gill on Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:39 pm

Mike Trudell ‏@LakersReporter
D'Antoni on keeping Howard in re: FT's: "You have a player that's going to be your franchise player and you don't do that to him."


I can't really hate MDA for that. That's all on Dwight. He wants to be this big star with a big smile leading to a team to that elusive championship, he's gotta look in the mirror first.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Balance&Options24 on Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:43 pm

What was the reason D'Antoni's and Melo clashed in NY?
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby LooN3y on Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:03 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:Not a fan of the hire one bit....but leaving Dwight out there to figure it out is something I actually applaud Mike for doing. The only way Dwight gets over this is if you put him in front of 18,000 screaming fans....he can shoot all he wants in practice, but there's nothing like the real thing. Also, the way he handled the guys' minutes was another thing that I can applaud him for. I thought he would ride Dwight into the ground with Pau not there, but kudos to Mike for paying attention.

That said, 21 3balls taken with Kobe taking 9 adding to this 31 total shots taken. Meanwhile, that guy bricking FTs at the end of the game only got 9 shot attempts and Pau wasn't even in the game. That's a huge problem. If we're relying on one man to fix this thing, then we're in trouble. For such an offensive genius, where he likes the ball to take on a rhythm with each pass, it doesn't seem like D'Antoni is doing anything for us offensively.

We're up 11 with 7 minutes to go...Harden and Lin ain't doing diddly offensively....yet people here keep focusing on D. Yeah, that's a problem, but look at what we're doing on O as well. It looks good when they go in, but the percentages catch up with you...and when you keep chucking away, that lead gets away from you in a hurry. Long misses ultimately lead to transition baskets if you do not secure the offensive board....and of course, this old team is going to do an awful job getting back on D if the opposition is already transitioning the other way.





at the expense of losing games? i know its just the regular season, but i dont believe we have the luxury to just lose games like this to give dwight a "confidence boost" or help him mentally

losing is going to be like a flu we wont get rid of if it keeps on continuing or at least winning would just be an ultimate struggle this season and something rare
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby borri on Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:16 pm

Hope MDA has the balls to reign Kobe in. Unfortunately, his balls aren't big enough for Kobe to listen I am afraid. :man1: :man10: :man3: :man5:
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby purp n gold on Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:16 pm

SeasonTicketHolder wrote:
purp n gold wrote::bang:

To excuse Dwight and put this all on MDA is crazy. I don't fault him for trying to instill confidence in Dwight with these "expendable" late-game pressure situations. We're not getting anywhere until Dwight starts hitting his free throws.


We shouldn't excuse Dwight but during post game interviews D'Antoni stated that he didn't take out Dwight because you don't do that to a player :freak2:

But it's okay to take out Pau because "you're trying to win the game"? You can't have it both ways. Dwight needs to put on "his" big boy pants and head to the pine when "hack a Dwight" becomes a viable option for the opponent. Once he gets it under control or the 2:00 minute mark (whatever fookin' comes first), then you re-insert him in the game. And yes Dwight, your free throws have cost us several games - don't fool yourself. Why would Kobe hand you the ball down the stretch when the team is just going to foul you to send you to the free throw line...smh


I don't agree with the way MDA and Kobe have handled Pau lately, even if he's sucking. If you're complaining about the inconsistency from MDA, then sure I get that. It's not the strongest point, but I get it.

But don't deny this - not all players are created equal and part of coaching is managing each player as such. And last time I checked, Dwight is our franchise player and Pau is not.

In this case MDA is completely right about keeping Dwight in the game. Dwight needs to learn how to respond in these situations. Should we just take him out every 4th qtr from here until the season ends? That's the solution? No, Dwight needs to put his big boy pants on and make the free throws.

Only Dwight can stop hack-a-Dwight.




...And a huge LOL to you guys thinking Phil Jackson would have Dwight sit in these situations. The other team has to go on a 20-0 run before Phil would even call a timeout. MDA is doing the "Phil thing" and you guys are crying for Phil. SMH
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby JGC on Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:24 pm

I just don't get why we're even blaming Hack a Dwight on this one to be honest. I mean this is what I remember.

We were up 4 pts with 3-ish minutes left in the game when they started Hack a Dwight. In total, Dwight made 63% of his free throws (5 of 8). I think he split his first 3 pairs and then made both of his final two, right?

After he made his final two FTs, we were at the 2 min mark so Hack a Dwight was over. We were up 2.

So the net of hack a dwight was 2 pts. One basket.

So Dwight shot a good percentage (by his standards) during hack a dwight with 63% which I will take if he does that every time he is hacked, and after the hack a dwight strategy was over, the net point differential was a single 2pt basket.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Finwë on Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:47 pm

^^ again, it was 5/10, not 5/8. And we were tied when hack-a-dwight was over, since we gave up a basket (or FTs) right after one of his trips before they stopped fouling Howard. -4.
-4 is bad but like you said not THAT bad, still the part you're missing is that it was a crucial stretch of the game and it pretty much killed our flow and our sync (on both ends) -for real, not like you suggest Kobe does even from the bench (your comments of the 11 point lead)-.

The game was lost due to VARIOUS reasons. A HUGE one was one you mentioned, the FGA disparity because of turnovers and offensive rebounds. Hack-a-dwight was just an awful stretch that hurt us bad, not only during but after it was done.
IMO D'Antoni's decision to leave Howard in there hurt us bad (because of what I already mentioned), but so did his decision to leave an awful second unit on the floor until the 6:00 mark while the rockets cut into our lead and got all the momentum.
So, IMO, keys to the loss:
-turnovers
-offensive rebounds
-defensive rotations / help D -> especially during the hack-a-dwight stretch (out of sync a bit?)
-FTs -> D'Antoni leaving Dwight in, killing our flow on both ends
-Second unit during the 4th
-lack of ball movement down the stretch (mostly Kobe's fault) -> this is were I thought D'Antoni was supposed to help out, drawing plays and stuff to get easy looks. None of the sort. Also part of the blame can be placed on the aftermath of hack-a-dwight, players "were out of sync" as you like to say.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby JGC on Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:51 pm

^ What maybe I haven't made clear, is that I believe that Kobe hero ball, is a detriment to most, if not all of the "keys to the loss". Yes, even defense. I mean when he goes nutso like that, I don't know how people can't see the loss of focus on the other players. The standing around. The flat-footedness on defense.

I mean looking strictly at a box score, I can see why someone would think it is crazy to put most (not all, ok?) but most of the responsibility on 24's shoulders but like, I don't know, I think it's so clear how you can almost see the energy being zapped out of the players after he goes 3-4 possessions in hero mode.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Finwë on Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:00 am

JGC wrote:^ What maybe I haven't made clear, is that I believe that Kobe hero ball, is a detriment to most, if not all of the "keys to the loss". Yes, even defense. I mean when he goes nutso like that, I don't know how people can't see the loss of focus on the other players. The standing around. The flat-footedness on defense.

I mean looking strictly at a box score, I can see why someone would think it is crazy to put most (not all, ok?) but most of the responsibility on 24's shoulders but like, I don't know, I think it's so clear how you can almost see the energy being zapped out of the players after he goes 3-4 possessions in hero mode.

I wasn't looking strictly at a box score. I've been watching every laker game (and MANY other games, also playing ball in college) for yeaars, so please don't be condescending.

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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby last stand on Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:13 am

Vasashi17 wrote:Not a fan of the hire one bit....but leaving Dwight out there to figure it out is something I actually applaud Mike for doing. The only way Dwight gets over this is if you put him in front of 18,000 screaming fans....he can shoot all he wants in practice, but there's nothing like the real thing. Also, the way he handled the guys' minutes was another thing that I can applaud him for. I thought he would ride Dwight into the ground with Pau not there, but kudos to Mike for paying attention.

That said, 21 3balls taken with Kobe taking 9 adding to this 31 total shots taken. Meanwhile, that guy bricking FTs at the end of the game only got 9 shot attempts and Pau wasn't even in the game. That's a huge problem. If we're relying on one man to fix this thing, then we're in trouble. For such an offensive genius, where he likes the ball to take on a rhythm with each pass, it doesn't seem like D'Antoni is doing anything for us offensively.

We're up 11 with 7 minutes to go...Harden and Lin ain't doing diddly offensively....yet people here keep focusing on D. Yeah, that's a problem, but look at what we're doing on O as well. It looks good when they go in, but the percentages catch up with you...and when you keep chucking away, that lead gets away from you in a hurry. Long misses ultimately lead to transition baskets if you do not secure the offensive board....and of course, this old team is going to do an awful job getting back on D if the opposition is already transitioning the other way.


our offensive issues are in Kobe being the PG i'm afraid. everything runs smoother when duhon runs it. kobe for all his greatness is not a PG. he can pass but his mentality is to shoot and if kobe's probing it may end with 20 seconds and shot.

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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby odom1year on Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:19 am

D'Antoni needs Nash instead of the team needs D'Antoni.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Battle Tested20 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:03 am

I'm just upset that so many fans on this board are mad at MD for leaving in Howard. Maybe you could take Shaq out when he was having FT problems and it was fine, but Dwight isn't as mentally stable or strong as Shaq and it's not fixing the problem. It's just covering it up and hoping that it goes away.

Like it or not and I'm being serious here there is going to come a time in this year's playoffs where Dwight is going to have to hit some big a** free throws and I'd rather bite the bullet now and get Dwight comfortable with these situations than go "O SH**, I hope Howard is ready and can step up".
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby TIME on Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:08 am

JGC wrote:^ What maybe I haven't made clear, is that I believe that Kobe hero ball, is a detriment to most, if not all of the "keys to the loss". Yes, even defense. I mean when he goes nutso like that, I don't know how people can't see the loss of focus on the other players. The standing around. The flat-footedness on defense.

I mean looking strictly at a box score, I can see why someone would think it is crazy to put most (not all, ok?) but most of the responsibility on 24's shoulders but like, I don't know, I think it's so clear how you can almost see the energy being zapped out of the players after he goes 3-4 possessions in hero mode.


Strange post. Kobe shooting too much causes the team to not play D = :man3: :man10: :man3:

So you think the entire team is pulling a Shaq, and refusing to guard the yard because the dogs aren't getting fed? You realize that when Shaq did that he was being selfish, petulant and unprofessional, right? Yet, you don't criticize the entire team of professionals getting paid millions of $$$ to play defense whether Kobe takes every single shot or shares the ball. Instead you blame Kobe when the team doesn't defend. Don't bother to offer another convoluted explanation. I get it. In your world it is always Kobe's fault.
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