Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

if we had lost cause kobe wasnt in the game, everyone would be on here saying how dumb d'antoni is cause he didnt play kobe more.

he's damned if he does and damned if he doesnt.

trodgers wrote:I'm not giving D'Antoni a pass on managing minutes. In fact, I think he's being a coward or stupid (not sure which) in not sitting Kobe more.

Mike Brown 2.0

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:Kobe definitely should have sat out the 4th when we were up by 14 I think it was. Apparently Kobe wanted to stay in, but as a coach I think you need to make those decisions sometimes. Our bench has proved to be capable of extending leads before and it was the fricken Wizards

Absolutely. He started the fourth...that was stupid. You have to tell him that you simply know better than he does if you're the coach. Because if you don't know better, you shouldn't be coaching.

trodgers wrote:I'm not giving D'Antoni a pass on managing minutes. In fact, I think he's being a coward or stupid (not sure which) in not sitting Kobe more.

Kobe told reporters during the postgame report that he wasn't tired, so he stayed in the game. It sounds like it was Kobe's call, not Mike's.

The only coach that probably has the moxie to tell Kobe that he can't go in is Phil. Mike will have to earn that.

^ That's just what I'm talking about though. Sometimes it's your job to tell people that they're wrong.

^I get what you're saying, but I can hardly blame Mike for not wanting to start something with Kobe over game minutes. You have to pick your battles when you have a disagreement with a superstar. Arguing about whether he can go in or not is probably not a battle worth having at this point in the season.

The difference between Brown bringing Kobe back in while we're up by 20 points and overplaying Kobe while Gasol and Nash and Blake are healthy and Mike D'Antoni having to rely on him with all of our injury woes is extremely large.

it's still a concern, but I'm more understanding of the situation. If Kobe plays 44 minutes again tomorrow night I'll be more concerned, but right now I think it was necessary. Once people heal up I expect his minutes to drop obviously.

Not a free pass from me, just a loan. I'm letting it slide now with some expectation of change in the near future.

He hasn't been giving him rest since he got here, but this is the first time, that I've heard at least, that Kobe told him he wanted to stay in.....

IMO it was because he didn't want his back tightening up while taking a seat on the bench, combined with the fact that the bench stops at Meeks/Hill right now (Substitute Ebanks in for Hill last night).

Pau/Nash to get back or we need to pick up a player to relieve this problem.

Interesting problem. I remember specifically last year when we had a Double OT Win in Memphis and Kobe played 52 minutes; fast forward next game of what I think was a B2B against New Orleans he played 46- minutes. I could be off minutes played by a few. Matter of fact, at the end of the New Orleans game they mentioned his minutes and he said, "he felt good."

Later on during that year, Kobe went through a shooting slump; most notably I seem to recall a game in which he shot 3-20 against the Utah Jazz. He finally mentioned that his shooting slump could be due to "fatigue." Kobe is going to tell any coach he's fine. It's the coach's responsibility to pull Kobe because it's the competitor in Kobe that will always say he's fine even to the detriment of the team. I don't say that to belittle; heck, it's one of the very reasons he has 5 rings.

I can see MDA keeping him in because we're not healthy, and we needed a win desperately. I can understand that. However, he has to be cognizant and exercise authority has the Head Coach to sit Kobe; it may not be in this game but the issues is going to come up again. However, it's a game by game basis since each game presents it's own special circumstances.

revgen wrote:^I get what you're saying, but I can hardly blame Mike for not wanting to start something with Kobe over game minutes. You have to pick your battles when you have a disagreement with a superstar. Arguing about whether he can go in or not is probably not a battle worth having at this point in the season.

Thats not even an excuse. There's definitely ways to talk to your star player from a coaches/ leaders perspective, and tell him why you need him fresh and rested. ESPECIALLY when you have meeks on FIRE and you're going into the 4th quarter up by 14!! There should be no argument, I doubt kobe would care if he came off the bench to start the 4th. He's just riding kobe to make sure he doesn't lose. That doesn't seem like the "team ball" philosophy that he says he preaches. He would trust the backups if he did.

King of Clutch wrote:

revgen wrote:^I get what you're saying, but I can hardly blame Mike for not wanting to start something with Kobe over game minutes. You have to pick your battles when you have a disagreement with a superstar. Arguing about whether he can go in or not is probably not a battle worth having at this point in the season.

Thats not even an excuse. There's definitely ways to talk to your star player from a coaches/ leaders perspective, and tell him why you need him fresh and rested. ESPECIALLY when you have meeks on FIRE and you're going into the 4th quarter up by 14!! There should be no argument, I doubt kobe would care if he came off the bench to start the 4th. He's just riding kobe to make sure he doesn't lose. That doesn't seem like the "team ball" philosophy that he says he preaches. He would trust the backups if he did.

If Meeks was backing up Kobe, then I could see your point. The truth is that Meeks, Ebanks and Kobe were out on the floor for long stretches to give our offense just enough life to win against a lowly Wizards team. If Kobe came out, then Duhon or Morris come in. Not Meeks. Not good.

revgen wrote:

King of Clutch wrote:

revgen wrote:^I get what you're saying, but I can hardly blame Mike for not wanting to start something with Kobe over game minutes. You have to pick your battles when you have a disagreement with a superstar. Arguing about whether he can go in or not is probably not a battle worth having at this point in the season.

Thats not even an excuse. There's definitely ways to talk to your star player from a coaches/ leaders perspective, and tell him why you need him fresh and rested. ESPECIALLY when you have meeks on FIRE and you're going into the 4th quarter up by 14!! There should be no argument, I doubt kobe would care if he came off the bench to start the 4th. He's just riding kobe to make sure he doesn't lose. That doesn't seem like the "team ball" philosophy that he says he preaches. He would trust the backups if he did.

If Meeks was backing up Kobe, then I could see your point. The truth is that Meeks, Ebanks and Kobe were out on the floor for long stretches to give our offense just enough life to win against a lowly Wizards team. If Kobe came out, then Duhon or Morris come in. Not Meeks. Not good.

So why not bring in antawn and ron? I'm sorry but there is no justifying kobe playing 44 mins at his age. Doc wouldn't play kg or pierce that much, neither would pop with his older stars. As a coach he MUST find ways to rest his older star. This shouldn't even be a debate. Kobe probably has more mileage than anyone in the league. No way he should be playing 44 mins, on the second night of a back to back, up by 14, going into the 4th quarter. I don't think its even a debatable topic in this particular case

King of Clutch wrote:

revgen wrote:

King of Clutch wrote:

revgen wrote:^I get what you're saying, but I can hardly blame Mike for not wanting to start something with Kobe over game minutes. You have to pick your battles when you have a disagreement with a superstar. Arguing about whether he can go in or not is probably not a battle worth having at this point in the season.

Thats not even an excuse. There's definitely ways to talk to your star player from a coaches/ leaders perspective, and tell him why you need him fresh and rested. ESPECIALLY when you have meeks on FIRE and you're going into the 4th quarter up by 14!! There should be no argument, I doubt kobe would care if he came off the bench to start the 4th. He's just riding kobe to make sure he doesn't lose. That doesn't seem like the "team ball" philosophy that he says he preaches. He would trust the backups if he did.

If Meeks was backing up Kobe, then I could see your point. The truth is that Meeks, Ebanks and Kobe were out on the floor for long stretches to give our offense just enough life to win against a lowly Wizards team. If Kobe came out, then Duhon or Morris come in. Not Meeks. Not good.

So why not bring in antawn and ron? I'm sorry but there is no justifying kobe playing 44 mins at his age. Doc wouldn't play kg or pierce that much, neither would pop with his older stars. As a coach he MUST find ways to rest his older star. This shouldn't even be a debate. Kobe probably has more mileage than anyone in the league. No way he should be playing 44 mins, on the second night of a back to back, up by 14, going into the 4th quarter. I don't think its even a debatable topic in this particular case

Because Antawn and Ron aren't SG's or PG's. Simple as that. Our backcourt is limited right now. On top of that, Ron was playing PF at times since we're missing Pau and Hill and Jamison doesn't have the strength to cover starting PF's. Heck, we even had Ebanks playing the 4 in the 3rd quarter since he's the longest forward we have with Hill and Pau missing.

If D'Antoni was playing Kobe 44 minutes with Hill, Pau, Nash, and Blake all healthy, different story. We need a win, and our backcourt options are extremely limited.

revgen wrote:Because Antawn and Ron aren't SG's or PG's. Simple as that. Our backcourt is limited right now. On top of that, Ron was playing PF at times since we're missing Pau and Hill and Jamison doesn't have the strength to cover starting PF's.

If D'Antoni was playing Kobe 44 minutes with Hill, Pau, Nash, and Blake all healthy, different story. We need a win, and our backcourt options are extremely limited.

Ok. What about duhon, meeks, ron, jamison, and sacre. Or morris, meeks, ebanks, ron, sacre. Or duhon, meeks ron, jamison, dwight. We were up by 14. To start the fourth. kobe isn't the only guard we have. Darius, duhon, meeks, and even ebanks all could've played those 4-8 minutes to start the 4th. Instead he thought that starting kobe in the 4th would put the game away quickly. Instead he played a tired guy, who tried putting the game away, which instead ended up making it closer than it needed to be. And forced him to play the entire 4th quarter, instead of coming in late 4th quarter if it came to that. Bad call by d'antoni in my opinion. But I guess we just disagree.

King of Clutch wrote:

revgen wrote:Because Antawn and Ron aren't SG's or PG's. Simple as that. Our backcourt is limited right now. On top of that, Ron was playing PF at times since we're missing Pau and Hill and Jamison doesn't have the strength to cover starting PF's.

If D'Antoni was playing Kobe 44 minutes with Hill, Pau, Nash, and Blake all healthy, different story. We need a win, and our backcourt options are extremely limited.

Ok. What about duhon, meeks, ron, jamison, and sacre. Or morris, meeks, ebanks, ron, sacre. Or duhon, meeks ron, jamison, dwight. We were up by 14. To start the fourth. kobe isn't the only guard we have. Darius, duhon, meeks, and even ebanks all could've played those 4-8 minutes to start the 4th. Instead he thought that starting kobe in the 4th would put the game away quickly. Instead he played a tired guy, who tried putting the game away, which instead ended up making it closer than it needed to be. And forced him to play the entire 4th quarter, instead of coming in late 4th quarter if it came to that. Bad call by d'antoni in my opinion. But I guess we just disagree.

I've already explained to you why we shouldn't bring in Morris or Duhon for Kobe. Read my previous posts. I'm not going to get into a circular argument.

revgen wrote:

King of Clutch wrote:

revgen wrote:Because Antawn and Ron aren't SG's or PG's. Simple as that. Our backcourt is limited right now. On top of that, Ron was playing PF at times since we're missing Pau and Hill and Jamison doesn't have the strength to cover starting PF's.

If D'Antoni was playing Kobe 44 minutes with Hill, Pau, Nash, and Blake all healthy, different story. We need a win, and our backcourt options are extremely limited.

Ok. What about duhon, meeks, ron, jamison, and sacre. Or morris, meeks, ebanks, ron, sacre. Or duhon, meeks ron, jamison, dwight. We were up by 14. To start the fourth. kobe isn't the only guard we have. Darius, duhon, meeks, and even ebanks all could've played those 4-8 minutes to start the 4th. Instead he thought that starting kobe in the 4th would put the game away quickly. Instead he played a tired guy, who tried putting the game away, which instead ended up making it closer than it needed to be. And forced him to play the entire 4th quarter, instead of coming in late 4th quarter if it came to that. Bad call by d'antoni in my opinion. But I guess we just disagree.

I've already explained to you why we shouldn't bring in Morris or Duhon for Kobe. Read my previous posts. I'm not going to get into a circular argument.

You said the lineup to start the 4th was needed to give "just enough offense to bet a lowly wizards team". I don't think thats justifiable based on the score. There was more than enough of a cushion. Would rather have duhon and meeks playing extended minutes as guards, than 34 yr old kobe bryant. And why do you keep saying bringing "duhon or morris for kobe"? meeks would play the sg. And everyone else plays their natural positions. Its not rocket science

King of Clutch wrote:

revgen wrote:

King of Clutch wrote:

revgen wrote:Because Antawn and Ron aren't SG's or PG's. Simple as that. Our backcourt is limited right now. On top of that, Ron was playing PF at times since we're missing Pau and Hill and Jamison doesn't have the strength to cover starting PF's.

If D'Antoni was playing Kobe 44 minutes with Hill, Pau, Nash, and Blake all healthy, different story. We need a win, and our backcourt options are extremely limited.

Ok. What about duhon, meeks, ron, jamison, and sacre. Or morris, meeks, ebanks, ron, sacre. Or duhon, meeks ron, jamison, dwight. We were up by 14. To start the fourth. kobe isn't the only guard we have. Darius, duhon, meeks, and even ebanks all could've played those 4-8 minutes to start the 4th. Instead he thought that starting kobe in the 4th would put the game away quickly. Instead he played a tired guy, who tried putting the game away, which instead ended up making it closer than it needed to be. And forced him to play the entire 4th quarter, instead of coming in late 4th quarter if it came to that. Bad call by d'antoni in my opinion. But I guess we just disagree.

I've already explained to you why we shouldn't bring in Morris or Duhon for Kobe. Read my previous posts. I'm not going to get into a circular argument.

You said the lineup to start the 4th was needed to give "just enough offense to bet a lowly wizards team". I don't think thats justifiable based on the score. There was more than enough of a cushion. Would rather have duhon and meeks playing extended minutes as guards, than 34 yr old kobe bryant. And why do you keep saying bringing "duhon or morris for kobe"? meeks would play the sg. And everyone else plays their natural positions.

No there wasn't. Expecially with Dwight in foul trouble and Sacre coming in.

Why is Kobe playing so many minutes is a topic here. My answer is MDA is going to ride him the same way Mike Brown did. These coaches have no confidence in anyone else especially at this time with Nash and Pau bench ridden. It's that simple folks. The result will be a major stress injury on him maybe around mid season. This team is in trouble.

revgen wrote:

King of Clutch wrote:

revgen wrote:

King of Clutch wrote:

revgen wrote:Because Antawn and Ron aren't SG's or PG's. Simple as that. Our backcourt is limited right now. On top of that, Ron was playing PF at times since we're missing Pau and Hill and Jamison doesn't have the strength to cover starting PF's.

If D'Antoni was playing Kobe 44 minutes with Hill, Pau, Nash, and Blake all healthy, different story. We need a win, and our backcourt options are extremely limited.

Ok. What about duhon, meeks, ron, jamison, and sacre. Or morris, meeks, ebanks, ron, sacre. Or duhon, meeks ron, jamison, dwight. We were up by 14. To start the fourth. kobe isn't the only guard we have. Darius, duhon, meeks, and even ebanks all could've played those 4-8 minutes to start the 4th. Instead he thought that starting kobe in the 4th would put the game away quickly. Instead he played a tired guy, who tried putting the game away, which instead ended up making it closer than it needed to be. And forced him to play the entire 4th quarter, instead of coming in late 4th quarter if it came to that. Bad call by d'antoni in my opinion. But I guess we just disagree.

I've already explained to you why we shouldn't bring in Morris or Duhon for Kobe. Read my previous posts. I'm not going to get into a circular argument.

You said the lineup to start the 4th was needed to give "just enough offense to bet a lowly wizards team". I don't think thats justifiable based on the score. There was more than enough of a cushion. Would rather have duhon and meeks playing extended minutes as guards, than 34 yr old kobe bryant. And why do you keep saying bringing "duhon or morris for kobe"? meeks would play the sg. And everyone else plays their natural positions.

No there wasn't. Expecially with Dwight in foul trouble and Sacre coming in.

Then there's no such thing as a cushion then. I would think that if one wished for a great scenario to get kobe few minutes of rest, on a second night of a back to back, on top of all the minutes he's played already, 14 point lead going into the 4th quarter would suffice for that perfect situation. Guess its not enough for some. But hey, I just hope everyone is right using nash and blake as an excuse as to why kobe's minutes are so high. Hopefully this team can get some regularity in the rotations quickly. Its already been a while since the season started.

King of Clutch wrote:

revgen wrote:

King of Clutch wrote:

revgen wrote:

King of Clutch wrote:Ok. What about duhon, meeks, ron, jamison, and sacre. Or morris, meeks, ebanks, ron, sacre. Or duhon, meeks ron, jamison, dwight. We were up by 14. To start the fourth. kobe isn't the only guard we have. Darius, duhon, meeks, and even ebanks all could've played those 4-8 minutes to start the 4th. Instead he thought that starting kobe in the 4th would put the game away quickly. Instead he played a tired guy, who tried putting the game away, which instead ended up making it closer than it needed to be. And forced him to play the entire 4th quarter, instead of coming in late 4th quarter if it came to that. Bad call by d'antoni in my opinion. But I guess we just disagree.

I've already explained to you why we shouldn't bring in Morris or Duhon for Kobe. Read my previous posts. I'm not going to get into a circular argument.

You said the lineup to start the 4th was needed to give "just enough offense to bet a lowly wizards team". I don't think thats justifiable based on the score. There was more than enough of a cushion. Would rather have duhon and meeks playing extended minutes as guards, than 34 yr old kobe bryant. And why do you keep saying bringing "duhon or morris for kobe"? meeks would play the sg. And everyone else plays their natural positions.

No there wasn't. Expecially with Dwight in foul trouble and Sacre coming in.

Then there's no such thing as a cushion then. I would think that if one wished for a great scenario to get kobe few minutes of rest, on a second night of a back to back, on top of all the minutes he's played already, 14 point lead going into the 4th quarter would suffice for that perfect situation. Guess its not enough for some. But hey, I just hope everyone is right using nash and blake as an excuse as to why kobe's minutes are so high. Hopefully this team can get some regularity in the rotations quickly. Its already been a while since the season started.

Oh, you mean the 14 point lead going into the 4th that shrank to 7 points in a matter of 3 minutes with Dwight, Kobe, and Meeks on the floor? A 16 point lead that could have shrank even further in those 3 minutes had we had Morris or Duhon out there?

Sorry, but I don't see your point.

revgen wrote:
Oh, you mean the 14 point lead going into the 4th that shrank to 7 points in a matter of 3 minutes with Dwight, Kobe, and Meeks on the floor? A 16 point lead that could have shrank even further in those 3 minutes had we had Morris or Duhon out there?

Sorry, but I don't see your point.

Exactly my point. You play a guy nearly the entire game and expect the results to be the same down the stretch? lol, no. He should know kobe would try to take over in the 4th whether he has the energy to or not. And going by your logic, kobe should play the entire 3rd and 4th quarter, no matter how much we're up? lol i'm sorry but thats not smart basketball at all.

King of Clutch wrote:

revgen wrote:
Oh, you mean the 14 point lead going into the 4th that shrank to 7 points in a matter of 3 minutes with Dwight, Kobe, and Meeks on the floor? A 16 point lead that could have shrank even further in those 3 minutes had we had Morris or Duhon out there?

Sorry, but I don't see your point.

Exactly my point. You play a guy nearly the entire game and expect the results to be the same down the stretch? lol, no. He should know kobe would try to take over in the 4th whether he has the energy to or not. And going by your logic, kobe should play the entire 3rd and 4th quarter, no matter how much we're up? lol i'm sorry but thats not smart basketball at all.

No. It wouldn't be the same. If Kobe wasn't playing in the 4th, that 14 point lead that shrank to 7 points in 3 minutes, would have shrank even further. Possibly losing the lead altogether.

It's smart if you want to win the game. Which is the whole point of playing basketball. Apparently, you prefer losing.

Uncle_Meat wrote:Why is Kobe playing so many minutes is a topic here. My answer is MDA is going to ride him the same way Mike Brown did. These coaches have no confidence in anyone else especially at this time with Nash and Pau bench ridden. It's that simple folks. The result will be a major stress injury on him maybe around mid season. This team is in trouble.

I agree. D'Antoni rode Stoudemire into the ground the first year Stat joined the Knicks. He said he was going to ride Lin like Secretariat and Lin eventually got hurt. Kobe is an old 34. He wants to be on the floor so he isn't going to complain but D'Antoni will run him into the ground. Its easier for him to do that then to try and coach a team.

revgen wrote:

King of Clutch wrote:

revgen wrote:
Oh, you mean the 14 point lead going into the 4th that shrank to 7 points in a matter of 3 minutes with Dwight, Kobe, and Meeks on the floor? A 16 point lead that could have shrank even further in those 3 minutes had we had Morris or Duhon out there?

Sorry, but I don't see your point.

Exactly my point. You play a guy nearly the entire game and expect the results to be the same down the stretch? lol, no. He should know kobe would try to take over in the 4th whether he has the energy to or not. And going by your logic, kobe should play the entire 3rd and 4th quarter, no matter how much we're up? lol i'm sorry but thats not smart basketball at all.

No. It wouldn't be the same. If Kobe wasn't playing in the 4th, that 14 point lead that shrank to 7 points in 3 minutes, would have shrank even further. Possibly losing the lead altogether.

It's smart if you want to win the game. Which is the whole point of playing basketball. Apparently, you prefer losing.

lol that lead shrank down to 7 in just about THE SAME amount of time when kobe was ON the floor. So I don't get your point. He's lucky we didn't lose the game as a result. We can talk about what "would have happened" all we want. The point is, he should have rested kobe for as long as he could, and when it DID get down to 9 or 8, THEN you bring in kobe. You don't keep him in, hope he extends the lead, and then play him the entire 4th when that doesn't happen. It was unnecessary. Even if they did bring it down to 7 in 3 mins when kobe was on the bench, that still would have been rest for his 34 yr old player. What did he accomplish by keeping kobe in? The lead STILL dropped to around 7, AND kobe played the entire 4th. lol great logic. I don't understand whats so difficult to understand.

I think i'm being trolled, poorly. I'll just stop here.