Mike D'Antoni Discussion: "I was an idiot..." (155)

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby khmrP on Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:04 am

while I dont like his comments about Pau's game, with this same offense, Nash took a team featuring frye/dudley/no D amare to the WCF, pretty much DOMINATED and swept the Spurs that year :man10: . There's still a good chance this will work but it really does need some modifying with Pau, I dont want to see him chucking 3's like Frye in Pho.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Vasashi17 on Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:14 am

The Mavs and Heat fallacy is in full effect I see.

Since they played uptempo and won a title...so can we! :bang:

Lets direct our attention to the obvious: they had youth (Miami) and they had shooters (Mavs). Playing uptempo needs the legs and all I see on this team is a fractured one belonging to a soon to be 39 year old. Shooting is another thing necessary with a D'anton3 run offense. The Mavs team was older, but they had shooters like Dirk, Terry and even Kidd (who's improved with age) out on the perimeter. We have Nash, who will be more involved in getting people shots, not taking them....and Meeks. Those 2 are our most consistent shooters from deep.

But its awfully more than just that. Look to the helm and you have 2 coaches that are easily top 5 in defensive coaching. Their track record speaks for itself. I've already demonstrated their defensive numbers in my previous posts, but Carlisle and Spoels are in another stratosphere defensively, compared to D'antoni. Obviously add in guys like Tyson, Marion, Battier and more than their offensive schemes, the last 2 champs focused a whole lot more on D, than our present coach does. That's a mindset that trickles down from the coaching staff...not the players. Dwight and RonRon can scream defense all they want, but the right direction and implementation starts from up top.

Finally, inside out was being played with those teams. Bron spent the summer with Dream learning some tendencies on the block. He knew he was going to see minutes at the 4 since Bosh was moving to the 5. When they slowed it down, Bron was on the block playing inside out and lets not act like Bosh is some hack down there either. Wade has been careless with his body and its catching up, but how did he get here? Certainly not by standing out on the perimeter tossing the 3ball. That Heat team worked inside, demanded the opposition to adjust and then went outside for the open perimeter J. The Mavs went bonkers from the perimeter, but alot of that came from Kidd dribble penetration INSIDE and then kicking. Teams were scrambling cause Kidd actually looked for Tyson lobs.

I really do hope LA goes inside out more cause that is what will control tempo more and that is what will ironically help our defense. Nash can't fix everything, but the one thing he can do is ball control. Kob needs to stay out of the way and just capitalize on what he does best: scoring. Nash has to either dump it inside for easier looks for our frontline or dribble drive into the paint and find open shooters if the defense collapses in. Either way, it ALL starts from the inside. This chuckfoolery needs to stop! Some 3balls do come from Dwight double teams, but for the most part its swing, swing, chuck...what?!? Go inside...inside....inside....inside...inside...then out, for christsakes! :mad1:
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Lakerjones on Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:30 am

This guy is becoming a joke just like Mike Brown. The things he wants to try are just becoming nonsensical. Basketball really isn't this difficult unless you want to prove some point. What the point is I don't really know.

So far Bernie was the much better coach for this team. Roll out the ball and let the players do what they do. Then make RATIONAL substitutions that allow the older veterans to rest, and the bench to do it's job. Jeez, what a difficult thing, right?

I can't believe what I've been hearing lately.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Greatest of All Time on Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:46 am

Vasashi17 wrote:The Mavs and Heat fallacy is in full effect I see.

Since they played uptempo and won a title...so can we! :bang:

Lets direct our attention to the obvious: they had youth (Miami) and they had shooters (Mavs). Playing uptempo needs the legs and all I see on this team is a fractured one belonging to a soon to be 39 year old. Shooting is another thing necessary with a D'anton3 run offense. The Mavs team was older, but they had shooters like Dirk, Terry and even Kidd (who's improved with age) out on the perimeter. We have Nash, who will be more involved in getting people shots, not taking them....and Meeks. Those 2 are our most consistent shooters from deep.

But its awfully more than just that. Look to the helm and you have 2 coaches that are easily top 5 in defensive coaching. Their track record speaks for itself. I've already demonstrated their defensive numbers in my previous posts, but Carlisle and Spoels are in another stratosphere defensively, compared to D'antoni. Obviously add in guys like Tyson, Marion, Battier and more than their offensive schemes, the last 2 champs focused a whole lot more on D, than our present coach does. That's a mindset that trickles down from the coaching staff...not the players. Dwight and RonRon can scream defense all they want, but the right direction and implementation starts from up top.

Finally, inside out was being played with those teams. Bron spent the summer with Dream learning some tendencies on the block. He knew he was going to see minutes at the 4 since Bosh was moving to the 5. When they slowed it down, Bron was on the block playing inside out and lets not act like Bosh is some hack down there either. Wade has been careless with his body and its catching up, but how did he get here? Certainly not by standing out on the perimeter tossing the 3ball. That Heat team worked inside, demanded the opposition to adjust and then went outside for the open perimeter J. The Mavs went bonkers from the perimeter, but alot of that came from Kidd dribble penetration INSIDE and then kicking. Teams were scrambling cause Kidd actually looked for Tyson lobs.

I really do hope LA goes inside out more cause that is what will control tempo more and that is what will ironically help our defense. Nash can't fix everything, but the one thing he can do is ball control. Kob needs to stay out of the way and just capitalize on what he does best: scoring. Nash has to either dump it inside for easier looks for our frontline or dribble drive into the paint and find open shooters if the defense collapses in. Either way, it ALL starts from the inside. This chuckfoolery needs to stop! Some 3balls do come from Dwight double teams, but for the most part its swing, swing, chuck...what?!? Go inside...inside....inside....inside...inside...then out, for christsakes! :mad1:


I'm not so sure about the Mavs thing. That team had better shooters, but they also had excellent half-court execution that got guys great looks, even if a lot of them were jumpers. They did a lot of pick and roll with off-ball movement and stuff like off-ball screens. They did a good job scrambling the Heat's elite perimeter defense by swinging the ball around which made it difficult for the Heat to recover, even with their speed and quickness. I'm sure Jason Kidd had a lot to do with designing their offense as I'm sure he's had that type of impact on New York's offense this season.

Here, it's just pick and roll at the top while everyone else stands at the 3 point line and waits for a kick out. There are literally no set plays because Pringles apparently knows nothing about X's and O's and exploiting defenses, so he encourages his guys to run down the court and jack up a shot before the defense sets.

They're going to be relying on Steve Nash to pick and roll and "probe" until he finds something. A good defensive team like Miami will just trap him and recover and that's pretty much all they'll really have to gameplan for. Hopefully Coach Nash can recognize this and make the adjustments to the offense himself because I don't think Pringles has the basketball IQ to actually make the proper adjustments.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby bayarealakersfan on Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:52 am

Helljumper wrote:But we're not playing "small ball". We're not abandoning all post presence. We're finding a balance between the two. The best center in the league is still an integral part of our offense. It's not like we're starting a line-up of Nash/Meeks/Kobe/Ebanks/MWP. Some of you are acting like the ONLY way to win is by having two 7 footers dominate the paint offensively. That's simply not true.

2011 Mavericks - Perimeter Shooting "Stretch" 4 who avoids the post (Dirk/Pau), defensive Center who relies on putbacks and oops (Chandler/Dwight), surrounded by shooters.

2012 Heat - Strong SF converted into PF (Lebron/MWP), "Finesse" PF/C (Bosh/Pau), surrounded by shooters

The league is changing (due in part to D'antoni's influence with Phoenix). It doesn't matter what used to account for success. The personel in the league has changed and the game is being played differently. Are you saying that nearly every GM/coach in the league is incompetent because they're choosing to go a bit smaller instead of trying to assemble rosters that feature a "twin towers" interior presence?



This.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby bayarealakersfan on Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:53 am

therealdeal wrote:
MC wrote:list all the teams that have won titles without a post presence and I think you will find that list is AWFULLY short.

1. Dallas- 2011. And please don't say Dirk, he was shooting outside jumpers almost exclusively and he's been doing that for years now.
2. Miami- 2012. Bosh? :man10:

Just because it hasn't worked in the past as much, doesn't mean it can't work ever. Heck you could argue that Jordan was the only post presence of those Bulls teams and that wasn't until later in his career.

But more importantly: just because D'Antoni isn't a fan of posting up, doesn't mean he WON'T post up guys that want/need to be posted up. Dwight for example is getting post touches all the time. Less than he should, but still plenty of touches.

So D'Antoni isn't a huge fan of post ups... Big whoop. I'll be more concerned when Dwight goes a game without seeing the ball inside.


And this.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby khmrP on Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:55 am

players can adjust to the coach, Mia is a great example, Wade adjusted his gm to benefit the team and let James lead. Pau needs to adjust to the system, not saying he needs to shoot corner 3's but he can adjust if his supposed high bball IQ is really warranted.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby The Rock on Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:58 am

khmrP wrote:players can adjust to the coach, Mia is a great example, Wade adjusted his gm to benefit the team and let James lead. Pau needs to adjust to the system, not saying he needs to shoot corner 3's but he can adjust if his supposed high bball IQ is really warranted.


this is what Im saying. Pau can still do things that this team needs like rebound and interior passing. We need that. Its just frustrating thats all he can do now from being a post up 18 ppg guy to this but he can still contribute to this team.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Vasashi17 on Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:07 pm

^^^^Or you can go the other way and have the coach admit that he's wrong and adjust accordingly.

Heat 9-8...Spoels woke up and said he was using Bron wrong on the offensive end. We know how the rest goes.

Listen, if you want to turn a career post up player into a jumpshooting big just to make your offense work....then maybe, just maybe, your offense is the problem.

And really, what offense are we talking about here? How many titles has it won again? If NY or Phx win this year, then maybe we can talk about players adjusting to this heralded offense.....till then, feed the f'n post!
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby khmrP on Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:12 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:^^^^Or you can go the other way and have the coach admit that he's wrong and adjust accordingly.

Heat 9-8...Spoels woke up and said he was using Bron wrong on the offensive end. We know how the rest goes.

Listen, if you want to turn a career post up player into a jumpshooting big just to make your offense work....then maybe, just maybe, your offense is the problem.

And really, what offense are we talking about here? How many titles has it won again? If NY or Phx win this year, then maybe we can talk about players adjusting to this heralded offense.....till then, feed the f'n post!


all they did was play Lebron ball, he just had better support this time around vs. what he had in Clev. I dont really call that "adjusting"
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Greatest of All Time on Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:13 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:^^^^Or you can go the other way and have the coach admit that he's wrong and adjust accordingly.

Heat 9-8...Spoels woke up and said he was using Bron wrong on the offensive end. We know how the rest goes.

Listen, if you want to turn a career post up player into a jumpshooting big just to make your offense work....then maybe, just maybe, your offense is the problem.

And really, what offense are we talking about here? How many titles has it won again? If NY or Phx win this year, then maybe we can talk about players adjusting to this heralded offense.....till then, feed the f'n post!


Yeah what offense. The first option in this "offense" is literally just run down the court and jack up a shot before the defense sets. If not, spam the same pick and roll every time.

New York has a shot, but players didn't adjust to the offense. Mike Woodson and Jason Kidd tweaked it so it's not so 1 dimensionl/gimmicky.

letsgoletsgoletsgo
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby The Rock on Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:14 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:^^^^Or you can go the other way and have the coach admit that he's wrong and adjust accordingly.

Heat 9-8...Spoels woke up and said he was using Bron wrong on the offensive end. We know how the rest goes.

Listen, if you want to turn a career post up player into a jumpshooting big just to make your offense work....then maybe, just maybe, your offense is the problem.

And really, what offense are we talking about here? How many titles has it won again? If NY or Phx win this year, then maybe we can talk about players adjusting to this heralded offense.....till then, feed the f'n post!


HEres how Pau is doing in the post, we're 1/4 of the way into the season. Hes shooting 24% in the paint when he's not attempting dunks or layups. How can we justify more shot attempts for someone whos been ineffective for quite a bit in the paint area?

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Im not saying completely dismiss Pau in the post but he is declining fast so we use his other skills in the meantime. Hes still an elite rebounder and elite passer, those skills are absolutely necessary for this team. If Pau wants to post up, he can do that with the 2nd unit ( right now hes not even doign that).


The Heat's dynamic are completely different than ours, they have Center to Point guards who can all shoot 3s, we dont. Remember Game 7 vs BOS in MIA , Chris Bosh hit a couple of huge 3s? They have actual floor spacers from the top to the bottom of hte lineup that allows Wade and Lebron plenty of space to attack the paint. We dont. We have to mix it up.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Greatest of All Time on Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:18 pm

I agree, Pau Gasol has been pretty bad at finishing in the paint. He's definitely fallen off from where he was a couple years ago but he can't be THAT bad. I think his even weaker finishing rate this season has a lot to do with that sore labia he was playing with to start the season. Apparently it's all healed and rested so those percentages should go up as he gets back into a groove (if he does).
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Vasashi17 on Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:49 pm

Rock, that sample size has to incorporate Pau's injury, plus ask yourself with nearly a quarter of the season done, are 42 attempts nearly enough? Granted, he's missed some games...but just 42 attempts! We took 31 3s in the last game....31 3s in just one game!

Also, lets see: difference between Bron ball and Nash ball....oh, the other side of the ball. I'm cool with Kobe, Nash, Bron, whoever running the offense...heck the Showtime Lakers had Magic doing it and it was fun to watch. But there is the other side of the ball to look at. Unfortunately, D'Antoni ain't looking.

Dude wants to average 125 points a game....why? Cause they can't defend other teams from scoring just as much.

If you want to go uptempo, you want Nash to dominate the ball, you want PnR, you want 3ball....okay. Its all good to me. But a couple things need to work for that to happen. Make sure you focus just as much and even more on the other side of the ball. Also, make sure you have the proper personnel to run that type of offense. Finally and most important, has your vision shown to work? How many titles has it won?

I'm okay with tweaks, changes, anything to get a ring....but wait, dude hasn't won a ring. Meanwhile, post play has...Pau has, Dwight went to the finals. Heck, even our new frontline player in Kobe has won multiple titles with a solid post game. So...go to what works. The post aka the most inefficient play according to our residing offensive guru.

7-9 is our record with him at the helm. Pau is being highlighted in this discussion, but what about our other center? Dwight recently said that he would like the rock in the post..not in PnR...but in the post. Out of 16 games under D'Antoni, Dwight has gotten more than 13 shot attempts in a game twice. Foul trouble and free throw attempts impact that number, but just think about that for a second. An offensive guru would figure out a way to get "the future cornerstone of the franchise" (according to Mitch) the ball more. But Nash is out....well, I guess the debate that D'Antoni ain't ish without Nash holds true!
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby MC on Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:49 pm

Helljumper - Vash pretty much took the words right out of my mouth so I don't feel the need to rehash it.

The bottom line is a coach must redefine himself to his roster in the professionals....... this is not a 10 year college program, in the NBA you don't always have the luxury to build a roster that fits your exact philosophy..... the great coaches adjust accordingly trying to use some of what they do but while at the same time running things that fit others guys games.

I was never suggesting always using the twin bigs........ what I'm suggesting is not making one of them null and void along with half your bench because they don't fit what you would like to ideally run..... there is ideal than there is realistic........ look at our roster and tell me which philosophy fits what? This his roster, people think big moves are coming but I don't...... they will wait and see it all with Nash first...... my guess is Nash will find a way to probe and create enough to help Pau. Not because of MDA and his dumb a** philosophy.... because he'll get out of Nash's way and jump on his coat tails like he does best.

The success of this team is completely tied to how those bigs are used whether MDA likes it or not. This team cannot afford to it not to work..... a Gasol trade either has to happen right now or the Lakers could find themselves struggling to just make the playoffs before getting anything worth while..... Not to mention that next year Gasol's value will be way, WAY higher as an expiring..... the FO would be beyond stupid to trade him before than at this point IMO.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby pound4pound1 on Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:05 pm

what a mess Jimmy created


all this wouldn't be happening if he did the logical thing 2 years ago and hired Adelman
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Vasashi17 on Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:09 pm

^^^Which ultimately comes down to why the Lakers disconnected from alot of fans (myself included). You had the FO pretty much give the finger to Phil AND the fans, with that piss poor of an explanation for the D'Antoni hire.

The personnel on this team is not a good fit for a D'Antoni offense. The FO is entitled to want that type of offense and that is not where my beef lies....its their negligence at constructing this roster and believing that it matched well with D'Antoni's offense. If D'Antoni was the hire and then you constructed the roster accordingly, the fans are cool with that. But with this roster already the way it is, you overlook Phil to bring in D'Antoni and you got fans screaming bloody foul. Are you kidding me?!?

Kobe, Pau, Metta are all vets that have played in the triangle and have gotten rings from it.
Dwight is a post up player, a free agent this summer and is obviously a player we want to lock up. Is a guard dominated offense or the triple POST offense the way to go with a player like this?
Nash is already locked up for 3 years...is on the north side of 30 ...and is smart enough and talented enough to be a triangle guard. If triangle guards are known for shooting, me thinks Nash would have been perfect in that role, right?

Yet, they want us to believe that THIS roster was more better suited for D'Antoni's system. They are more concerned with the new guys not being able to pick up the intricacies of the triangle. Basically saying that our new guys are not smart enough to pick up the triangle. Nash is 38 and by all means a coach-player. He's smart enough and oh yeah, a perfect fit for the triangle. The center is the easiest position to acquire for the triangle. Dwight would've been alright.

Aside from the starters, you have Jodie who is a spot up shooter who moves off of screens to get an open shot. Sounds like he would have been alright in the triangle. Tawn isn't a point forward like Scottie, but more of a diver to the cup from the wing. Again, sounds like a motion guy and it would have been right for the constantly moving triangle. Hill is a big guy who would have probably played center behind Dwight...like I said before, the 5 is the easiest to pick up. Meanwhile you have Blake, Duhon and Ebanks all either with triangle exposure/knowledge or have played for Phil before. If the FO went with D'Antoni strictly for Morris, DJO and Sacre...yikes! Don't they know, he normally goes 7 deep anyways.

Dr. Buss made one huge mistake: picking Jimmy instead of Jeanie as the rightful heir to this franchise.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby John3:16 on Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:26 pm

^^^^ Once again, I agree with everything you said Vasashi. :bow: The last sentence should be printed and mailed to Dr Buss.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby John3:16 on Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:37 pm

lakerswiz wrote:If we trade Jordan Hill for some other crappy inconsistent point guard or some soft power forward that likes to run, I'm going to do everything in my capabilities of the internet to make sure the Buss family knows how much we like Mike Dan Tony.


:man3: Is their word of us trading Hill ? Because their better not be. :man2:
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Weezy on Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:01 pm

John3:16 wrote:
lakerswiz wrote:If we trade Jordan Hill for some other crappy inconsistent point guard or some soft power forward that likes to run, I'm going to do everything in my capabilities of the internet to make sure the Buss family knows how much we like Mike Dan Tony.


:man3: Is their word of us trading Hill ? Because their better not be. :man2:


Well, he's not currently playing, I believe 'Antoni said he's on the outside looking in as far as rotations go, and then there's that history of 'Antoni and Hill in NY. I haven't seen any rumors of trading Hill, but it wouldn't shock me if they aren't going to even play him. I feel bad for Jamison as well, signed here for the minimum, been 100% professional since he got here, been given ridiculously inconsistent minutes/role, and now he's supposedly out of the current rotation too.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby pound4pound1 on Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:18 pm

Weezy wrote:
John3:16 wrote:
lakerswiz wrote:If we trade Jordan Hill for some other crappy inconsistent point guard or some soft power forward that likes to run, I'm going to do everything in my capabilities of the internet to make sure the Buss family knows how much we like Mike Dan Tony.


:man3: Is their word of us trading Hill ? Because their better not be. :man2:


Well, he's not currently playing, I believe 'Antoni said he's on the outside looking in as far as rotations go, and then there's that history of 'Antoni and Hill in NY. I haven't seen any rumors of trading Hill, but it wouldn't shock me if they aren't going to even play him. I feel bad for Jamison as well, signed here for the minimum, been 100% professional since he got here, been given ridiculously inconsistent minutes/role, and now he's supposedly out of the current rotation too.



i really dont understand the FO's fascination with bringing back Showtime...as long as there's a winning product on the floor, people will come to watch...we could have 86-83 wins every night and Staples would still be packed
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby The Rock on Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:55 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:Rock, that sample size has to incorporate Pau's injury, plus ask yourself with nearly a quarter of the season done, are 42 attempts nearly enough? Granted, he's missed some games...but just 42 attempts! We took 31 3s in the last game....31 3s in just one game!

Also, lets see: difference between Bron ball and Nash ball....oh, the other side of the ball. I'm cool with Kobe, Nash, Bron, whoever running the offense...heck the Showtime Lakers had Magic doing it and it was fun to watch. But there is the other side of the ball to look at. Unfortunately, D'Antoni ain't looking.

Dude wants to average 125 points a game....why? Cause they can't defend other teams from scoring just as much.

If you want to go uptempo, you want Nash to dominate the ball, you want PnR, you want 3ball....okay. Its all good to me. But a couple things need to work for that to happen. Make sure you focus just as much and even more on the other side of the ball. Also, make sure you have the proper personnel to run that type of offense. Finally and most important, has your vision shown to work? How many titles has it won?

I'm okay with tweaks, changes, anything to get a ring....but wait, dude hasn't won a ring. Meanwhile, post play has...Pau has, Dwight went to the finals. Heck, even our new frontline player in Kobe has won multiple titles with a solid post game. So...go to what works. The post aka the most inefficient play according to our residing offensive guru.

7-9 is our record with him at the helm. Pau is being highlighted in this discussion, but what about our other center? Dwight recently said that he would like the rock in the post..not in PnR...but in the post. Out of 16 games under D'Antoni, Dwight has gotten more than 13 shot attempts in a game twice. Foul trouble and free throw attempts impact that number, but just think about that for a second. An offensive guru would figure out a way to get "the future cornerstone of the franchise" (according to Mitch) the ball more. But Nash is out....well, I guess the debate that D'Antoni ain't ish without Nash holds true!
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Vash it basically comes down to 2011 playoffs for Pau. He lost the trust of Kobe and especially the front office at that time. It wasn't that he was ineffective, he wasn't competing. Thats the least he could do. Thats why everyone was hopeful for the future when we lost 2008 it wasn't because we didn't try hard enough its just Celtics were better and we needed more time to get better as a group while adding missing pieces (Ariza/Bynum). Bynum wouldn't have a bigger role in this team Pau didn't inexplicably disappear in 2011. To complicate things further he came back and put up 18/10 solid ok but he wasn't shooting it at high rate, we were pounding the hell out of the rock last year even when Bynum was out of the game but still we weren't the same team. IT carried into the playoffs and same thing happens he wasn't competing at times when we really really need him (Game 4 vs OKC at home comes to mind and Game 6 at DEN comes to mind). The guy just isn't competing as hard as we want him to. Try harder. People here aren't mad because he isn't productive we're mad that he isn't trying hard enough.

Just look at Ron and Meeks those dudes have been trying hard as hell since Day 1 and no wonder their roles have gotten bigger and bigger with each passing day. Ron and Meeks have their share of bad days too but they dont stop trying. Thats what it comes down to Pau he needs to keep at it, he needs to keep grinding, he needs to keep competing, right now hes not doing that. HE hasn't been doing that since 2011 playoffs!

Theres no telling if Pau has truly snapped out of the 2011 funk, the only way our team can go about it is keep him but reduce his role (which is what I want since hes too talented/experienced to give up on) but at the same time if there is a better fit available I am down to trade him.

Pau brought this all on himself, it started with 2011


And as for the triangle, if you look at the 08/09/10 roster the core players had multiple years of triangle experience. Fisher (like 10), Odom (since 05), Kobe (like 10), Farmar (like 3-4), Sasha (4-5), thats a lot of experience under the triangle. Right now we only have 3 dudes who have triangle experience...Kobe, Pau and Ron and too many important players who are getting signficant minutes who dont (Nash, Howard, Meeks). Its too risky to implement this in the middle of the season with so many new players on the team. Basketball is a rhythmic sport. It thrives on continuity we have too many new players and it would be hard as hell to teach the traingle to them


Just like the impression of Pau we have from the glory days is what the impression of Phil that some of us Laker fans have...we still think both are just as good now in 2012 as they were in their glory days. They are not

Phil in 2010/2011 did a really bad job with the roster that just won the championship the year before
- Kobe couldn't practice cuz of knee issues so players were disengaged in practice & it carried into court
- Mitch traded for Joe Smith as a backup C & yet he ran Pau out there for 40+ mins a night until Drews return
- He let Shannon do whatever the hell he wanted, the guy shot like 28% from 3 point range for months and he was taking as many shots as MWP and more shots than Bynum

I could go on and on

Phil was a phenomenal coach but right now I can trust him, especially with the way how 2011 went

Same goes for Pau


The team right now was in a slump a week ago and injuries were part of the reason why. The team was constructed with the Big 4 playing a huge role in it and the other role players filling in the needs of the team. That was the visiion Mitch and Jim constructed this team under and we've only had 6 Quarters to actually see that come to fruition. Nash's return cuts down turnovers, it helps floor balance and it would get better looks for some of us players. More than that it boosts team morale and confidence which is really really what we need right now. Look for our team to turn things around! i have confidence in this coach and the roster as is! Go Lakers
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Greatest of All Time on Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:12 pm

Whether or not Phil was the right coach for this team is irrelevant. Sure, he was the consensus best choice and sure the triangle may be complicated. That's fine. But that doesn't mean they should have gone with such a terrible coach as the second choice. Did they actually believe this clown was the 2nd best (or best) coach available? When there's other guys like Jerry Sloan sitting at home?

Why did this guy leave Phoenix? Because Kerr traded Marion for Shaq because he wanted to build a deeper team that focused on defense. D'Antoni didn't want any of that. He wanted to keep his 7 man rotations. He wanted to continue running up and down the court jacking up 3s and playing no defense. He wanted to continue spamming the same high screen roll on every play and have Steve Nash figure things out as he went along. They literally had no other plays besides that.

And then in New York, he got super butthurt when the Knicks traded away Felton for Carmela. He tried forcing Carmela to be the ballhandler in the pick and roll. Once Carmela realized how stupid and incompetent this guy was, he stopped running the things Pringles wanted him to. Then Pringles whined and cried and QUIT on his team again. This guy is a joke.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Vasashi17 on Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:22 pm

Rock, so using the same "what have you done for me recently" logic, how can you trust D'Antoni? Or is what happened in NY not recent enough?

D'Antoni stepped away midseason and Woodson took over and just like that....

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...that team's losing aura was gone.

Pau isn't the same guy, but there has been changes and plenty that has gone around him to influence his play. Meanwhile, D'Antoni hasn't changed...its the same ol thing with him. Between the two, there's only one champ. I prefer to listen to the champ and have the guy without the rings change up his line of thinking.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Lakerjones on Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:11 pm

John3:16 wrote:^^^^ Once again, I agree with everything you said Vasashi. :bow: The last sentence should be printed and mailed to Dr Buss.


+1. Golden post up there Vash. I'm agreeing with almost everything that's being said right here on this page of the thread.

The thing that's angering me most right now is that Antoni has a roster that most coaches would kill for. And everything he's talking about is undermining that roster and the roles therein that almost every other coach could be kicking butt with. It's like Mike Brown all over again. I don't want to hear about players playing out of position or permanently benching guys like Hill and Jamison. It's all garbage as far as I'm concerned. Win with what you have. Stop whining Antoni. Learn how to adjust once in a while. It's called good coaching.

Jeez just look at what Bernie was doing with this squad. I would be much happier with Bernie at the helm again in fact.
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