Mike D'Antoni Discussion: RESIGNS AS LAKERS COACH (184)

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:01 am

MDA is all about spacing of the offense but would consider starting Ebanks at the 3 :man3:

Of the main reasons of our bad start against the Lolcats was Ebanks man totally ignored him to crowd the paint and D12 ... Devin failing to make Charlotte pay and adjust with his bad shooting ...
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Lakerjones on Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:10 am

^^ For whatever reason that I can't grasp Antoni has been spitting out some real nonsense lately. What bothers me most is that the guy is about to get his muse back in Nash. Can't he just put the roster that Mitch created out there on the floor and prove that he is the coach that "best fits the personnel" - as we were all force fed when he was hired?

I just want to see these guys play together. I could really give a crap about this guy's "system" or ideas. Just do your freaking job Antoni. Mitch gave you a dream roster - just use it. Don't screw this thing up before it's even had a chance to work.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby revgen on Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:10 am

I don't particularly think that D'Antoni is out of his mind as much as some people are saying.

He's trying to find role players who play both sides of the floor. We need role players who can contribute defensively when the 3's aren't falling for them on certain nights, especially since none of the core players outside of D12 are consistent on that end of the floor. And with 2 bigs on the floor, it's imperative that these role players hit open shots too.

As far as Pau being used in the post, I agree that Pau is better suited in the post, but Pau also needs to understand that you can't have 2 7 footers in there. It clogs the paint. D12 can't hit J's consistently, so he can't be out of the paint. Pau can hit outside shots. Which opens up the spacing for high-low sequences between the 2 bigs. If Pau wants the ball in the post, he needs to sprint down the floor and get it, or post up when D12 isn't on the floor.

I do disagree with him on tempo. This is not a high-tempo team.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:44 am

^^^^ Sure... I don't think Ebanks D is anything special though ... He loses his man ( as Kobe and Metta) off screens and ball movement on a regular basis ...
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby MC on Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:35 am

Greatest of All Time wrote:
MC wrote:
Center Court wrote:Dr Buss was apparently the one really pushing for MDA over Phil.

I guess he knows he's on the clock and more than anything he wants to win it in "showtime" fashion one last time.



here's the problem............ they want showtime but have no clue how showtime worked.

MDA is not showtime......... showtime probed the break and if it wasn't there they dumped it into the post and ran the offense thru Kareem quite a bit once he lumbered down the court.

MDA runs a hacked simpleton version of the showtime offense that forgets all about the fundamentals and basics of basketball.

that is why he fails.

Set your defense, Control the boards, get out and transition and if nothing is there work the ball down low. Is that so freak'n hard to figure out with this roster. This roster could run a variation of the Showtime offense once Nash is here but it can't be run like MDA's red headed step child of an offense.


I'm sure they knew how Showtime worked but I think they just failed to consider Pringles hates post play lol due diligence


Well ..... unfortunately the post play was half of what showtime was........... Kareem was a huge part of showtime because it allowed them to maximize the possessions while trying to run...... the key? probing the run than backing off if it wasn't there and allow Kareem to set up shop.

If the Buss's didn't recognize that than they have no clue how showtime ran...... if they thought MDA's system was anything like that than they have no clue what made Showtime work outside of the blatant obvious initial push of the ball.

That's because we have a stat guy with his numbers running majority of the show now..... and even worse yet one with an ego.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby MC on Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:40 am

vash -

excellent post............. to add to that, most people don;t understand that floor balance when a shot goes up goes a long way towards defending transition basketball. If you are going to have 3 or 4 guys always below the free throw line (either in the paint area or parked in the corners) when a shot goes up vs younger faster teams than you are setting yourself up to be massacred unless you are shooting lights out. When setting up an offense shots are suppose to come out at specific spots and times, if those shots are rushed or out of tune than your spacing can also be out of tune forcing you to be out of position for both rebounding and transition defense.

Real coaches think about these things.......... most fans are clueless to that.

Some people just won't understand that because there isn't a stat to show it to them.

Stat people need to understand that stats only show show you the result, not why the result is happening. If you don;t get the why than all the stats in the world won't help you. Stats support a good argument, they can't be the base of the argument.

In the end MDA's system is really a small ball system designed to reduce the size advantage bigger teams have.............. problem is the Lakers ARE THE BIGGER TEAM so what does MDA's system do.... runs right into our limitations and weaknesses as fast as it can.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Helljumper on Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:56 am

MC wrote:vash -

excellent post............. to add to that, most people don;t understand that floor balance when a shot goes up goes a long way towards defending transition basketball. If you are going to have 3 or 4 guys always below the free throw line (either in the paint area or parked in the corners) when a shot goes up vs younger faster teams than you are setting yourself up to be massacred unless you are shooting lights out. When setting up an offense shots are suppose to come out at specific spots and times, if those shots are rushed or out of tune than your spacing can also be out of tune forcing you to be out of position for both rebounding and transition defense.

Real coaches think about these things.......... most fans are clueless to that.

Some people just won't understand that because there isn't a stat to show it to them.

Stat people need to understand that stats only show show you the result, not why the result is happening. If you don;t get the why than all the stats in the world won't help you. Stats support a good argument, they can't be the base of the argument.

In the end MDA's system is really a small ball system designed to reduce the size advantage bigger teams have.............. problem is the Lakers ARE THE BIGGER TEAM so what does MDA's system do.... runs right into our limitations and weaknesses as fast as it can.


This is my point. I disagree with your statement. I don't think that MDA's system is a small ball system designed to reduce our size advantage. I think that's what you and a lot of other CL members THINK MDA's system is designed to do, based on taking quotes out of context and years of fans/the press over-simplifying his system. But I don't see that on the court. I don't see us playing small ball. I don't see us significantly pushing the tempo. I don't see us ignoring our big men. And I don't see D'antoni's system being the cause of our defensive issues. And I agree. Stats aren't everything. But when I see one thing on the court and you see another, can't stats be used to support one viewpoint over the other?

For example, you guys are saying that you see D'antoni's system causing us to chuck up too many outside shots. What I see is us taking advantage of natural floor spacing and ball movement to make the correct play, and this leads to a lot of three point attempts. A lot of that comes from having the best inside-out big man in the league. My proof? Orlando has been a top 2 team in three point attempts since 2008. You also argued that all these outside shots are causing us defensive issues because we're too slow. I argue that lapses in effort in transition defense should be blamed on the players, not the coach pushing us to take open shots on offense. My proof? Even with all of their three point shots, Orlando has had one of the best ranked defenses in the league since 2008, despite a rotation featuring many 30+ year old players who had never been elite defensive players (Jason Richardson, Hedo Turkoglu, Rashard Lewis, Gilbert Arenas, Vince Carter, Quentin Richardson). Their younger rotation players also weren't exactly the greatest athletes: Ryan Anderson, Brandon Bass, JJ Reddick.

Vash argued that by not feeding the big men, we're taking away their incentive to play hard on defense.

First of all, that's the very same logic that was used in the other direction to hate on Bynum last year. Low shot attempts is NOT an excuse for poor defensive effort. But anyways, it's a moot point. Our bigs are still getting their shots. Dwight's shot attempts are down from 13.4 as a first option last year to 11.1 as a second option. Pau's are down from 14.1 as a third option last year to 11.6 as ... whatever option Pau is now. I don't think about 2 less shots a game on a more talented team is enough to justify them not hustling back on D. But still, if you do want to use that logic, wouldn't it cause just as much defensive problems to force-feed the bigs (one of whom has proven to be prone to getting stripped and turning it over, which CLEARLY does have a negative affect on defense) at the expense of open perimeter players?

Still, Vash and MC, you have respectable arguments and I can definitely see where you're coming from.


This, on the other hand ...
Lakerjones wrote:^^ For whatever reason that I can't grasp Antoni has been spitting out some real nonsense lately. What bothers me most is that the guy is about to get his muse back in Nash. Can't he just put the roster that Mitch created out there on the floor and prove that he is the coach that "best fits the personnel" - as we were all force fed when he was hired?

I just want to see these guys play together. I could really give a crap about this guy's "system" or ideas. Just do your freaking job Antoni. Mitch gave you a dream roster - just use it. Don't screw this thing up before it's even had a chance to work.


Lakerjones, I can't say I'm familiar with your posts off the top of my head, but you have over 10,000 posts and you've been a member for a while so I'm going to assume you're a decent poster and so I'll try to restrain myself and say this as respectfully as I can ... what in the hell? So because D'antoni's experimenting by tweeking the starting line-up from the one you envisioned winning, he's not doing his job? His job is to utilize this "dream roster" Mitch constructed in the best way he can to win us games. All this backlash just from putting Meeks in the starting line-up instead of Metta? Do you realize that Meeks is part of this "dream roster" (and someone Mitch specifically brought in this season as opposed to Metta who's been a question mark and potential amnesty candidate until this season)?

Here's an analogous argument:
After the Pau trade in 2008, I bought a t-shirt with the text: "Fisher Bryant Odom Gasol Bynum" since that was what the starting line-up was expected to be when Drew came back. DAMN YOU PHIL FOR BRINGING LO OFF THE BENCH AND REALIZING THAT OUR STARTING LINE-UP FEATURING 2 ELITE BIG MEN MIGHT FLOW BETTER WITH MORE SPEED AND SPACING! FIRE BJ! (Get it, I said BJ instead of PJ. Isn't that cute? It's not really his name, but I don't like him for making a personnel decision that made my t-shirt less legitimate!)

... Woke up at 6:30 after 3 hours of sleep. Couldn't immediately fall back asleep so I checked my phone, intending to just Reddit for a few minutes and fall back asleep. CL was already open. Noticed these posts. Now I'm here an hour later with my sleep totally ruined :bang: ... and all for a post that is probably just gonna get ignored for being too long and supporting an unpopular view :man10:
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:40 am

Just been avoiding this thread lately. Too many whiny babies that want a scape goat and place all the blame on MDA since there isn't anyone else
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby 432J on Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:08 am

Jordan-esque wrote:Video of Mike D'Antoni's and Pau Gasol's meeting...



"Chuck and Duck!"

:man10: :man10: :man10:

:man10: :man10: :man10:
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Lakerjones on Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:10 am

Helljumper wrote:
MC wrote:vash -

excellent post............. to add to that, most people don;t understand that floor balance when a shot goes up goes a long way towards defending transition basketball. If you are going to have 3 or 4 guys always below the free throw line (either in the paint area or parked in the corners) when a shot goes up vs younger faster teams than you are setting yourself up to be massacred unless you are shooting lights out. When setting up an offense shots are suppose to come out at specific spots and times, if those shots are rushed or out of tune than your spacing can also be out of tune forcing you to be out of position for both rebounding and transition defense.

Real coaches think about these things.......... most fans are clueless to that.

Some people just won't understand that because there isn't a stat to show it to them.

Stat people need to understand that stats only show show you the result, not why the result is happening. If you don;t get the why than all the stats in the world won't help you. Stats support a good argument, they can't be the base of the argument.

In the end MDA's system is really a small ball system designed to reduce the size advantage bigger teams have.............. problem is the Lakers ARE THE BIGGER TEAM so what does MDA's system do.... runs right into our limitations and weaknesses as fast as it can.


This is my point. I disagree with your statement. I don't think that MDA's system is a small ball system designed to reduce our size advantage. I think that's what you and a lot of other CL members THINK MDA's system is designed to do, based on taking quotes out of context and years of fans/the press over-simplifying his system. But I don't see that on the court. I don't see us playing small ball. I don't see us significantly pushing the tempo. I don't see us ignoring our big men. And I don't see D'antoni's system being the cause of our defensive issues. And I agree. Stats aren't everything. But when I see one thing on the court and you see another, can't stats be used to support one viewpoint over the other?

For example, you guys are saying that you see D'antoni's system causing us to chuck up too many outside shots. What I see is us taking advantage of natural floor spacing and ball movement to make the correct play, and this leads to a lot of three point attempts. A lot of that comes from having the best inside-out big man in the league. My proof? Orlando has been a top 2 team in three point attempts since 2008. You also argued that all these outside shots are causing us defensive issues because we're too slow. I argue that lapses in effort in transition defense should be blamed on the players, not the coach pushing us to take open shots on offense. My proof? Even with all of their three point shots, Orlando has had one of the best ranked defenses in the league since 2008, despite a rotation featuring many 30+ year old players who had never been elite defensive players (Jason Richardson, Hedo Turkoglu, Rashard Lewis, Gilbert Arenas, Vince Carter, Quentin Richardson). Their younger rotation players also weren't exactly the greatest athletes: Ryan Anderson, Brandon Bass, JJ Reddick.

Vash argued that by not feeding the big men, we're taking away their incentive to play hard on defense.

First of all, that's the very same logic that was used in the other direction to hate on Bynum last year. Low shot attempts is NOT an excuse for poor defensive effort. But anyways, it's a moot point. Our bigs are still getting their shots. Dwight's shot attempts are down from 13.4 as a first option last year to 11.1 as a second option. Pau's are down from 14.1 as a third option last year to 11.6 as ... whatever option Pau is now. I don't think about 2 less shots a game on a more talented team is enough to justify them not hustling back on D. But still, if you do want to use that logic, wouldn't it cause just as much defensive problems to force-feed the bigs (one of whom has proven to be prone to getting stripped and turning it over, which CLEARLY does have a negative affect on defense) at the expense of open perimeter players?

Still, Vash and MC, you have respectable arguments and I can definitely see where you're coming from.


This, on the other hand ...
Lakerjones wrote:^^ For whatever reason that I can't grasp Antoni has been spitting out some real nonsense lately. What bothers me most is that the guy is about to get his muse back in Nash. Can't he just put the roster that Mitch created out there on the floor and prove that he is the coach that "best fits the personnel" - as we were all force fed when he was hired?

I just want to see these guys play together. I could really give a crap about this guy's "system" or ideas. Just do your freaking job Antoni. Mitch gave you a dream roster - just use it. Don't screw this thing up before it's even had a chance to work.


Lakerjones, I can't say I'm familiar with your posts off the top of my head, but you have over 10,000 posts and you've been a member for a while so I'm going to assume you're a decent poster and so I'll try to restrain myself and say this as respectfully as I can ... what in the hell? So because D'antoni's experimenting by tweeking the starting line-up from the one you envisioned winning, he's not doing his job? His job is to utilize this "dream roster" Mitch constructed in the best way he can to win us games. All this backlash just from putting Meeks in the starting line-up instead of Metta? Do you realize that Meeks is part of this "dream roster" (and someone Mitch specifically brought in this season as opposed to Metta who's been a question mark and potential amnesty candidate until this season)?

Here's an analogous argument:
After the Pau trade in 2008, I bought a t-shirt with the text: "Fisher Bryant Odom Gasol Bynum" since that was what the starting line-up was expected to be when Drew came back. DAMN YOU PHIL FOR BRINGING LO OFF THE BENCH AND REALIZING THAT OUR STARTING LINE-UP FEATURING 2 ELITE BIG MEN MIGHT FLOW BETTER WITH MORE SPEED AND SPACING! FIRE BJ! (Get it, I said BJ instead of PJ. Isn't that cute? It's not really his name, but I don't like him for making a personnel decision that made my t-shirt less legitimate!)

... Woke up at 6:30 after 3 hours of sleep. Couldn't immediately fall back asleep so I checked my phone, intending to just Reddit for a few minutes and fall back asleep. CL was already open. Noticed these posts. Now I'm here an hour later with my sleep totally ruined :bang: ... and all for a post that is probably just gonna get ignored for being too long and supporting an unpopular view :man10:


Helljumper, no worries, thank you for being respectful, I appreciate it. My posting has been inflammatory of late because of my rising frustrations with what the coach has been saying. Having just gone through a season plus five games of crazy making substations and lineups from Mike Brown, my frustration is this:

I've been waiting as we all have for a number of months since the summer to finally see the dream team lineup of Nash, Kobe, MWP, Pau and D12 on the court together, healthy and playing under a coach not named Mike Brown.

That's what I want to see. It's that simple. I don't want to see Kobe and Ron moved out of position. Do I really need to justify that Meeks is better served as a scoring spark plug off the bench where his impact will be more effective? Why in the world would the coach say that Hill and Jamison aren't going to be used any more or not much at all? Do we need to go into the fact that MWP moving to the bench didn't work well last year, and robs us of our best wing defender if he's playing the 4? All of that makes me crazy.

If Nash were going to continue to be out, I might understand these kind of moves or statements (I still wouldn't get not using Hill or Jamison any longer).

But Nash is coming back now. I want to see him playing with the veteran starters/leaders that Mitch has put together. And I want them to get as much time together as possible now to work out how they will play before the playoffs. We've already lost two months of time. I don't think now is the time to keep experiment, or experiment MORE drastically than even before, right when we are getting all of our guys back healthy.

This fan base was sold a bill of goods when D' Antoni was brought in that he is the best coach suited for our personnel. We were told that this is not a Triangle team.

If D' Antoni really is best suited for our guys then bring it on. Let's see how he plans to use them together since he is an offensive genius. He should be utilizing what Mitch put together first before making a priori decisions that sound nutty.

Doesn't it make more sense to play the starters as constructed since he finally has the opportunity? He's been saying since he got here, "Wait til Nash gets back." Well Nash is finally going to be back. I just want to see them all play at the same time and let them do their thing.

Bernie played these guys well, and he didn't even have Nash at the helm. But he did so with rational substitutions and not too many minutes for the starters.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Vasashi17 on Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:48 pm

Solid post HJ and I respect such a response...the type of posts I don't appreciate or respect are of the 2 liner poopoo variety.

HJ, you mentioned that D'Antoni ain't going small, yet its been pretty evident watching the games. Gasol has been taken out late in games just to go small. Artest coming in as the 4 and Kobe to the 3 is going small. The fact that Hill is not in the lineup in order to favor more PT for Meeks is cause he wants to go small and is focusing much more on the offensive end. I'm not saying that D'Antoni isn't conscious of this, but he's wanted to do it his way and realized it was getting loses, so he needs to switch it up but still incorporate his small ball approach. He started with Jamison at the 4 and played Pau less. Out of the 2, Pau is obviously the better defender. He started playing Morris much less (much more of a defensive guard than an offensive gem). That didn't work and I'm sure he felt pressure to focus more on D. So now he replaces Antawn with Artest at the 4. Plays Morris more and moves Gasol to the bench to back up Dwight at the 5. Its pretty obvious that he doesn't really want to play both Pau and Dwight together for extensive minutes. Not only that, but he really hasn't done much to get them the ball in more favorable positions. Obviously their low shot attempts and makes reflect this. Nash returning helps, but to place the entire solution to this problem on him is a farce.

When Bernie was coach, we didn't play alot of talented teams, but we did what we should have done during that stretch...play dominantly against lesser talent. We played loosely and a large part of the game was not played in a structured offense. We got our big guys some touches and we worked inside out for open 3 balls (unlike what we've seen of late where its swing swing chuck out on the perimeter without the ball even going into the post). Shooting alot of 3s and perimeter jumpers the right way is something I'm all for. Its when the ball does not go inside to start off the possession that really irks me. Also, most of us want inside out, but we don't want the perimeter dumping it in and just have them standing there. The triangle was so successful cause you had inside out AND motion! D'Antoni says that the post up is inefficient cause he feels its just a drop off into the paint and then the guard remains motionless. In that case, of course its inefficient. That's not just a quote...he really does practice it. Dwight gets the ball in the post and is forced to create...okay cool. But there is next to no movement out on the perimeter...not consistently at least. You will see in alot of these games, Kobe getting the ball on the perimeter (not on the block) and next to no motion by his teammates thereafter. Almost no motion once the ball goes in and that much motion if its swinging on the perimeter...Is this supposed to be the offensive genius that is D'Antoni? Push the break and if it isn't there set up a PnR and then stand still hoping for Nash to find you??? :freak2:

But really, its the lack of emphasis on defense that bothers me. The offense leads to bad defense, but D'Antoni pretty much tossed Dwight/Artest the keys to the defense and said figure it out...it's not my strong suit. NY has an old PG like Nash, in Kidd, a super scoring type like Kobe, in Melo and a defensive anchor type like Dwight, in Tyson. They got a PF that's not completely 100% like Gasol, in Amare that needs to be assessed once they get integrated into the system. So what's different? They're running a D'Antoni offense with a similar core, yet their defensive principles are being enforced by their defensive coach. Meanwhile, we don't have that same luxury.

Bernie's 1st 3 games as interim coach can be best described by Kobe: "he's good at getting out of the f'ing way". Next to no restraints on offense and let your talent alone get you victories. Just make sure you out there and bust your @ on both sides of the ball. Defensively we gave up 77 to GS, 90 to Sac and 81 to the SA before that game winning 3 from Green. Then D'Antoni's system comes and even though he's not at the helm for Bernie's last 2 games, you see how his offense impacts our defense. We give up 102 to the Suns and 108 to Houston. Of course we still get Ws by outscoring them, but you get the gist. His style of play is where he wants more possessions, but if you're playing that type of pace, it normally isn't favorable for a veteran team with still 3/4 ths of the season remaining.

You look at his rotations/tweaks and he's already playing our guards heavy minutes. Kobe has played 40+ in 7 straight games and once Nash returns, you're putting that same type of duress on a guy that is about to turn 39. This ain't a race...its a marathon and by the time April hits, our veteran guys will be gassed if we continue to play this way.

If you see it differently HJ, then we just have to agree to disagree. I think Nash's return helps, but if we stay the course, we just look good enough in the regular season to get ousted right out of the playoffs. Something has got to change.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby karacha on Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:12 pm

Chuck & Duck worked today. Sort of. Well, Kobe chucked. Pau ducked.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Armani on Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:23 pm

Should be obvious, but Kobe and Nash shouldn't be playing these many minutes on a nightly basis (Today was an OT game, so he gets a pass). Outside of that, can't really complain much. We know he's not a D coach, and the offense looked fine.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby LTLakerFan on Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:30 pm

Dan Tony gets an A for effort tonight from me for playing more than 7 players (of course foul trouble made him), and for playing freaking Jordan Hill. That dude needs minutes every game. He's got game and he's a beast on the O boards. :jam2:
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Ariza3 on Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:49 am

“@forumbluegold: Nash/Kobe/Pau/Dwight shared the floor for 18 minutes vs. GSW. Shot 17-35 FG, 5-10 from 3, OEff 105.5, DEff 81.3(!!), +11. Not bad all all.”


lets build on that and see if putting Ebanks or Meeks in the starting lineup will help over Morris. try different starting lineups at the 2/3 spot bc tonight I felt that Morris was good but maybe Ebanks/Meeks would be better for bigger guys
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:56 am

Well we got the win but sitting Metta during our run the 4th was a terrible decision
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby The Rock on Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:37 am

wcsoldier81 wrote:Well we got the win but sitting Metta during our run the 4th was a terrible decision


he took him out to give him a breather, even the commentators were saying he needed one. Meeks was more than an adequate replacement for that 2-3 min stretch Ron was out
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby MC on Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:25 am

helljumper - well.... look at MDA not just here but thru-out his career.

When has he had his most success? how was the team built?

When has he had his most failures, how was those teams built?

you going to ignore that based on a handful of games here in LA? ......... I see a guy that isn't much different in the way he goes about trying to resolve and hide basketball deficiencies on the court.

Describing big ball or small ball isn't just about the size of the players on the court ..... it's about the way you go about creating shot opportunities......... you can have all bigs on the floor ans still play towards a small ball style..... players in position, out of position means nothing there...... I'm talking about the philosophy itself, not the personnel rotations.

Big ball is inside out basketball ran out of the high, pinch and low post to create shots. The Ball starts and moves from there based on what a defense is reacting to it.

Small ball is about playing outside -in basketball, trying to create shots on a shifting defense using penetration by a ball dominant guard.

I can see a clear difference in the way they are playing and trying to space the floor. They are looking to create open jumpers..... sure.... what offense doesn't? they key is how you go about creating those shots and that spacing and it is very clear how MDA goes about it and it is also just as clear how uncomfortable our bigs are trying to blend to it.

We can get into the ideal offensive philosophy all we want but looking at how THIS CURRENT team is built.... MDAs is not the right one IMO and that hasn't changed much.... I've never thought much of the guy and I think even less of him now and the reason is simple....... he is stubborn, he has zero ability to adjust to a roster.... he only knows one thing and if it doesn't work it's pretty much everyone but his fault..... he is a good coach with a guy like Nash running the show for him but hardly a good coach in the truest sense.... I can be a good coach too, asking everyone to spread and handing the ball off to a Nash or CP3 like player....anyone can ride the coat tails of great players to respectability

The real frustrating thing for me is that you can have a bit of running and up tempo pace while still being a big man team..... it's all about how you set up when the break isn't there........ again, this FO wants another version of Showtime but the real decision makers have ZERO clue how it worked even after it collected them sooooo many titles. The fact they think MDA's system could be that Showtime 2.0 just screams out I have no clue............. This roster could be run like old showtime by making a simple yet NECESSARY adjustment..... feed our best player(s) in the post when the break isn't there and ESPECIALLY if Kid Canada isn't on the court...................... of course MDA won't do that...he's way to dense to get it.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby The Rock on Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:17 am

You guys are not considering the adjustments he's made so far. Heres some examples from last nights game

- He played Pau/Howard post minutes at C and still gave Hill a look at PF the whole game. Ron at the 4 was his original idea but he stuck with Hill. He went against his instincts. Gotta give him some props there right?
- If you look at the 4th Q we ran a ton of "Horns" sets its where the two bigs set up in the high post and make plays out of there. It resulted in a Dwight pass to Kobe for a dunk, a Pau lob to Dwight. Another Pau lob to Dwight but he missed the dunk, Pau pass to Meeks that resulted in a 3 that gave us the lead and Kobe in the post, drew the double kicked it out to Nash for 3

These didn't involve fastbreaks or P & R for Kobe or Nash or any of the usual MDA stuff, its just pure halfcourt offense


We're not running up and down the floor and jacking up shots, we are pushing the ball to get into our offense sooner, there are secondary transition opportunities and there are favorable mismatches that come with it, numerous times in the 1st half we saw Pau being guarded by like Jarret Jack or another perimeter player because the other team was out of position to pick our guys up, we just weren't able to take advantage but we'll figure it out
Last edited by The Rock on Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby therealdeal on Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:25 am

Kobe gave him credit last night for drawing up plays down the stretch to find guys open.

Mike Trudell ‏@LakersReporter
The play that MWP hit a wide open corner 3 w/24 sec. left in 4th - D'Antoni drew up w/Kobe on strong side, knew GSW wouldn't help off Kobe.

Mike Trudell ‏@LakersReporter
Then in OT, D'Antoni had Kobe almost exclusively on the weak side, MWP in the strong corner, making GSW decide on Kobe.


In one game back, Nash picked up this man's energy from a coaching perspective. I only see it improving. This is why I wanted to wait until Nash was either back or out for good before throwing him under the buss and asking for him to get fired. This man helped turn Nash into a 2 time MVP. I think they know each other well and I think that makes a massive difference.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:28 am

As a "reporter" tweeted during the game the Nash -D12 PNR with Kobe in the corner is Basketball porn :man10:
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Doc Brown on Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:38 am

He's adapting his offense from his Phoenix days.....

BBALLBREAKDOWN ‏@bballSource
Since every1 uses HORNS now, I shouldnt be surprised D'Antoni put it in. But I am.It does keep basket area open,which fits his philosophy
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BBALLBREAKDOWN
‏@bballSource
,@BallReasons I am intrigued that D'Antoni is using HORNS so much. Unless I'm wrong, never saw that in PHX
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby trodgers on Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:54 am

It's almost like he has a brain.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby LTLakerFan on Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:39 am

Why have I never read the term "Horns" offensive set on CL before. I'd think I would remember that. Never heard the term before. OK so assuming it's me, my problem that I haven't heard it..... how long has it been around and what teams use it a lot? Seems like a pretty good idea some of the time when Pau and Dwight are in there together.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby sina on Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:14 am

With Nash, Lakers are another team. A PG is very important to an offense system.

When Phil joined the Lakers, he brought Harper n Grant in order to teach other teammates triangle offense. However, the Lakers were always critized running non-triangle offense in first season. When he rejoined the Lakers, he needed Derek Fisher back to pair up with Kobe at back court.
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