Mike D'Antoni Discussion: RESIGNS AS LAKERS COACH (184)

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby scissors on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:09 am

So far MDA is a joke. Hopefully things pick up for him.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:15 am

Offense: Howard seems to only be an option in lob situations now. Not sure if that is a reaction to his free throw shooting or just a conscious decision by MDA but to have a center like him playing Deandre Jordan's role is stupid.

Pau is being a "Point Power Forward" roaming around the outside initiating and shooting 3's and long jumpers. Again, having one of the most talented post players in the history of the league doing that is not real smart either. Pau isn't the same one that played for us 3 years ago but he still has the ability to play in the post and MDA should be force feeding him in there...... especially given the PF he played against last night.

Morris: Why is he playing at all? Why is he playing over Jamison? This is a difficult decision for me.... but why is he playing over Ebanks? Can't figure this one out at all.....

Defense: Lack of preparation.... lack of effort..... lack of communication..... lack of execution.... We've frustrated another center to the point of leveling an opponent with our crap defense.... We need some energy, hustle and effort on that end big time or we are not going to get more than a few games over .500 all year. It's horrible on that end right now and not looking to get better anytime soon either.

MDA isn't going to adjust his philosophy to the personnel.... that much has become obvious to me. He's going to hammer the personnel to fit the system. What we get is Howard with 8 touches, Pau shooting 3's and initiating from the top of the key and Morris on the floor. He doesn't teach or even emphasize defense and in that he's philosophy has been successful..... because the team isn't playing or emphasizing defense either.

The best outcome is to acquire players that fit the system and get rid of the ones that don't because I'm not sure we are going to be much better than what we've seen without someone going off the reservation and changing what happens on the floor compared to what MDA is telling them to do......
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby revgen on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:15 am

lakerswiz wrote:
revgen wrote:
borri wrote:
revgen wrote:
"You just can't talk about defense or talk about where to go. You actually have to show guys where to go."


D12 is used to SVG's direct approach. If somebody screws up a rotation, SVG gets right into their face and sets them straight. D'Antoni obviously doesn't take that approach to defense.


Not sure if Antoni even has a defensive approach other than to funnel everything to D12.


I don't have a problem with that as long as the weakside help is there.

We also employ some doubling and occasional trapping in addition to funneling.

The problem is that we lack consistency on that end of the floor. That's usually a sign that habits are poor. That's usually the result of not enough repetition or focus in practice.

How can you say you don't have a problem with it if the help is there when Dwight just literally said the help isn't there. That is the issue. There isn't any weakside help. It is always Dwight.

He's asking for Mike Dan Tony to actually coach his players. You know, maybe say, "Hey Steve, when you're old self can't guard any other point guard in the league, you have to at least understand what spot to be in after you get beat so that you can provide some sort of help side defense." Because that is an incredibly huge issue.

Dwight can play helpside all day, but without the further rotations by the other players on the court, we are screwed. And the way teams have been moving the ball around against us, it's quite easy to see just how much that's affecting the team. Watch how many wide open shots the other team gets next game simply because one person gets beat, the help slides over and the lack of help side from the rest of the guys leads to a wide open shot.

And with the breakdown in our first line of defense coming at the initial start of many team's offenses, it's going to be a season long issue with Mike Dan Tony unless he changes his entire coaching style. The point guard getting beat every single time puts pressure on everyone else to an extreme extent.

Paired with the helpside D Dwight is asking for, we also need to tighten up our wing players at the elbows to play help on the point guards getting by Nash. Stop playing any type of passing lanes, let the first pass through, but play solid defense. Don't gamble. Stay in position to help to the action at the top of the key every single time.


I already pointed out that our rotations are poor.

I also pointed out that D12 probably prefers SVG's coaching method for defense over D'Antoni's.

So it looks like you're saying "I agree with you".
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby The Rock on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:59 am

Just something to think about

The only other team out there with a legit 2 big man lineup is 17th in NBA in offense

https://twitter.com/noamschiller/status/284317553461956608

Memphis' offense is down to 17th in the league.


People are bagging on us because we cant figure out how to use our 2 all star big men, welp looks like the only other team out there can't either and they got sent home in the 1st round last year by the Clippers soft interior. Go figure

Maybe the twin tower thing doesnt work after all
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby revgen on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:03 am

Offense isn't our problem. It's the defensive end that is killing us.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby dj vitus on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:06 am

I'm upset he didn't play a well-rested Jamison, even though Pau getting punked early on and Dwight got thrown out.

It was obvious Metta wasn't hitting his shots, either. Our defense wasn't there, so might as well try to run up the scoreboard and outlast them like we did last time. What gives? :freak2:
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby The Rock on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:08 am

revgen wrote:Offense isn't our problem. It's the defensive end that is killing us.


Agreed. But Im just saying Howard/Gasol are not working out on offense well no other team is performing any better who have a comparable frontline. Thats all

Defensive issues thats a whole another set of problems for discussion
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby dj vitus on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:11 am

revgen wrote:Offense isn't our problem. It's the defensive end that is killing us.

Yeah, well we could definitely play better defense most games, but it was tough yesterday (whether it was fatigue, thin air, Denver crowd, refs, McGee's mom's face, etc.).

With all those silly touch fouls (and them body-checking us all night), I'm surprised we only lost by 12 instead of 40.

We do need to do a better job of fighting through screens (something Blake and a young Fisher did a lot). Nash is Nash and will always be Nash, but Duhon is always going waaaaay under the screen and never fighting, leading to wide-open 3-pointers or 18-footers.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:11 am

revgen wrote:Offense isn't our problem. It's the defensive end that is killing us.


If it were anyone other than MDA I'd agree..... We can all see it.... the media can see it.... the pundits can see it....but his philosophy is to outscore the opposition in an up-tempo style.... we can't do that with this team with any consistency.

I don't think he's even concerned with the defense.... all he ever talks about is the offense with the exception of responding to a direct question or two about defense. It's just not a priority right now for him..... maybe once he gets what he want's on the offensive end he will notice just how horrible it is on the defensive end....
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:16 am

The game last night dropped us from 15th in defense to 20th. Wow

We were top 10 for a good portion of the season but we fell off a cliff and now we look like the defensive team everyone envisioned.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:18 am

^^shows you how much stats can mislead..... we've never been a top 10 in anything this year respective to anything that actually counts toward winning.....
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Jordan-esque on Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:20 pm

D'Antoni calling out his bigs... again. But this time it's not Gasol nor Hill!

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What did it mean for the Lakers to lose Dwight Howard? "Not a whole lot," Mike D'Antoni said. "I don't think he had a good game."


https://twitter.com/Mike_Bresnahan/stat ... 8662756352
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Center Court on Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:29 pm

Jordan-esque wrote:D'Antoni calling out his bigs... again. But this time it's not Gasol nor Hill!

@Mike_Bresnahan

What did it mean for the Lakers to lose Dwight Howard? "Not a whole lot," Mike D'Antoni said. "I don't think he had a good game."


https://twitter.com/Mike_Bresnahan/stat ... 8662756352




let the drama commence...

It seems like everyone is getting frustrated. Dwight with MDA. MDA with Dwight. Kobe with Dwight and Pau. Jamison with MDA. Pau witht he system.

The only 3 people who seem to be consistently doing what they're supposed are Kobe, Metta, Hill, Morris, Meeks, and Nash.

That said, we HAVE to figure out how to get Dwight dominating the low post. Since MDA would simply run offense through the post, he's gotta find another way. IMO Dwight is the stem of the frustration. Clearly he wants more responsibility on the offensive end and he's not getting it. I'm guessing he feels like he's been turned into a Tyson Chandler.

Somethings gotta give and I think it has to be the coach. He's got to get Dwight more touches around the rim.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Vasashi17 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:58 pm

I'm sorry its either bye Dwight or bye D'Antoni!

And again the FO thought that our future franchise player would be showcased in this offense...psssh! :nono2:

Dwight continuously gets limited touches on offense and is asked the world on defense while our guards are getting run into the ground (with Kobe continuously playing 40+ minutes per night).

A win here or there during the regular season is short-sighted. Any conscious Laker fan knows that this isn't going to work in a 7 game series.

Oh and Happy New Year!
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby revgen on Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:05 pm

The Rock wrote:
revgen wrote:Offense isn't our problem. It's the defensive end that is killing us.


Agreed. But Im just saying Howard/Gasol are not working out on offense


I don't a see a problem with Dwight/Pau on offense. Pau is shooting mid-range shots and passing to cutters from the midrange/highpost area. Dwight is scoring in the low post on alleyoops, putbacks, P&R plays, and postups. The rest of the team are getting open 3's (we're currently 8th in the league in 3pt%) due to the presence of our big men on the inside.

The Grizzlies problems on offense have absolutely nothing to do with the problems we're having on the defensive end. If anything, the Grizzlies superior defense with their 2 bigs is a model we should be looking at.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby revgen on Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:19 pm

Rooscooter wrote:
revgen wrote:Offense isn't our problem. It's the defensive end that is killing us.


If it were anyone other than MDA I'd agree..... We can all see it.... the media can see it.... the pundits can see it....but his philosophy is to outscore the opposition in an up-tempo style.... we can't do that with this team with any consistency.

I don't think he's even concerned with the defense.... all he ever talks about is the offense with the exception of responding to a direct question or two about defense. It's just not a priority right now for him..... maybe once he gets what he want's on the offensive end he will notice just how horrible it is on the defensive end....


I agree. Even when up-tempo is working for this group, it looks weird and almost unnatural.

D'Antoni's big problem is that he doesn't really understand defense. When defensive breakdowns occur, he yells at the whole team. He never specifically targets the player who was/is responsible for the breakdown. Yelling at an entire team when one individual is at fault isn't the way to do it IMO. That's why SVG is a very good defensive coach. He has the knowledge to know who is at fault, and the balls to get into the face of the player who was late on rotations. Mike does too, but he just doesn't have a clue.

That's partially why D'Antoni was interested in bringing McMillan onboard. Nate understands defense and also has the willingness to get into the face of the player and hold them accountable. Steve Clifford doesn't seem to like confrontations at all. I never see him up off the bench getting into the face of players.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby venky on Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:38 pm

What a terrible hire. If this doesn't work out, the FO deserves all the embarrassment that they will feel and more.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Helljumper on Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:56 pm

Once again ... I have no idea what the issue with D'antoni is (other than rotations, which are poor but still infinitely better than what Brown was doing.)

We're not a good defensive team. Our starting PF is a slow, unathletic 7 footer whereas most of the league has started to utilize speed/energy over size. Our best player who is supposed to be a great defender only tries on that end of the court maybe half of the time. We had these same defensive issues last season and earlier this year with a "defensive" coach. No available coach could have magically cured these fundamental defensive flaws in the roster to make us significantly better defensively.

Offensively ... what's the problem? Dwight's getting nearly the same amount of shot attempts as a first option in Orlando. He's getting plenty of post opportunities. He's just been ineffective. And when your best player is a perimeter scorer who gets up around 20-30 shots a game, touches are going to be limited. Just ask Bynum, who has proven to be significantly better than Dwight in the low post.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby venky on Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:10 pm

My problem with D'Antoni is that he runs an 8 man rotation in December and plays his best player who is 34 years old an average of 43 minutes over the past 10 games. There is no structure or pecking order to this offense. Everyone is given the greenlight to just chuck threes.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby lotus on Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:06 pm

venky wrote:What a terrible hire. If this doesn't work out, the FO deserves all the embarrassment that they will feel and more.

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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Lakerjones on Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:12 pm

revgen wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:
revgen wrote:Offense isn't our problem. It's the defensive end that is killing us.


If it were anyone other than MDA I'd agree..... We can all see it.... the media can see it.... the pundits can see it....but his philosophy is to outscore the opposition in an up-tempo style.... we can't do that with this team with any consistency.

I don't think he's even concerned with the defense.... all he ever talks about is the offense with the exception of responding to a direct question or two about defense. It's just not a priority right now for him..... maybe once he gets what he want's on the offensive end he will notice just how horrible it is on the defensive end....


I agree. Even when up-tempo is working for this group, it looks weird and almost unnatural.

D'Antoni's big problem is that he doesn't really understand defense. When defensive breakdowns occur, he yells at the whole team. He never specifically targets the player who was/is responsible for the breakdown. Yelling at an entire team when one individual is at fault isn't the way to do it IMO. That's why SVG is a very good defensive coach. He has the knowledge to know who is at fault, and the balls to get into the face of the player who was late on rotations. Mike does too, but he just doesn't have a clue.

That's partially why D'Antoni was interested in bringing McMillan onboard. Nate understands defense and also has the willingness to get into the face of the player and hold them accountable. Steve Clifford doesn't seem to like confrontations at all. I never see him up off the bench getting into the face of players.


^^ Very much agree with all you are saying in this thread Revgen.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby odom1year on Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:03 pm

MDA's old team are all well-known no defensive teams.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Ariza3 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:09 pm

thats awesome lets insult our star player who is the only one playing defense (minus last game) bc that'll make him want to try harder on D when no one else is...oh ya that'll work.

antoni needs to start prepping the defense. holding guys accountable for their mistakes on D. no on eis helping and they looked completely lost out there. some times guys are guarding the same guy and have to quickly switch. or on transition D our backup pg was on iggy when getting back or mwp just leaves his guy on the break for a wide open dunk. its inexcusable. he needs to start making them accountable for their own mistakes which affect the team.

offense is fine now with nash. focus on D!!! its beyond terrible...coach them. and we need leadership to get guys up to play games with energy (which is ridiculous to have to do for pro players getting paid ridiculously high million dollar salaries.) rookies who sit on the bench make more than doctors who saves lives so earn it and play hard from the start! and actually JUMP for a rebound!
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby GoldHammish on Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:13 pm

revgen wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:
revgen wrote:Offense isn't our problem. It's the defensive end that is killing us.


If it were anyone other than MDA I'd agree..... We can all see it.... the media can see it.... the pundits can see it....but his philosophy is to outscore the opposition in an up-tempo style.... we can't do that with this team with any consistency.

I don't think he's even concerned with the defense.... all he ever talks about is the offense with the exception of responding to a direct question or two about defense. It's just not a priority right now for him..... maybe once he gets what he want's on the offensive end he will notice just how horrible it is on the defensive end....


I agree. Even when up-tempo is working for this group, it looks weird and almost unnatural.

D'Antoni's big problem is that he doesn't really understand defense. When defensive breakdowns occur, he yells at the whole team. He never specifically targets the player who was/is responsible for the breakdown. Yelling at an entire team when one individual is at fault isn't the way to do it IMO. That's why SVG is a very good defensive coach. He has the knowledge to know who is at fault, and the balls to get into the face of the player who was late on rotations. Mike does too, but he just doesn't have a clue.

That's partially why D'Antoni was interested in bringing McMillan onboard. Nate understands defense and also has the willingness to get into the face of the player and hold them accountable. Steve Clifford doesn't seem to like confrontations at all. I never see him up off the bench getting into the face of players.

Well... We better hope the "McMillan in the offseason" thing we heard about when D'Antoni was hired comes to fruition then....
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Rooscooter on Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:21 pm

Helljumper wrote:Offensively ... what's the problem? Dwight's getting nearly the same amount of shot attempts as a first option in Orlando. He's getting plenty of post opportunities. He's just been ineffective. And when your best player is a perimeter scorer who gets up around 20-30 shots a game, touches are going to be limited. Just ask Bynum, who has proven to be significantly better than Dwight in the low post.


He's getting about 3 less shots a game.... that's not my point however. I actually thought he'd get about as many as Bynum got last year and that's pretty close to where he is now.

My issue is recognition on offense of mismatches. Last night it was Pau and Howard against Koufos and Faried.... and we didn't force feed the post for what reason?.... the system. Faried was let off the hook in guarding Pau in the post where he would be overmatched and was allowed to guard Pau on the perimeter where he has the advantage.... Howard may be more limited in the post than Bynum (I agree with you on this) but he's still got a huge advantage on Koufos down there. Why not pound it in there and create some fouls and a reaction out of Karl? Instead we played a system and didn't play strength to weakness.....

This is the difference in a good coach and one that can be a difference maker on a championship team.....
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