Mike D'Antoni Discussion: RESIGNS AS LAKERS COACH (184)

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Pig Miller on Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:34 am

It's up to the coach to adjust to his personnel. You're not going to turn guys like gasol, jamison, blake, etc into world class athletes that will get up and down the court easily.

we have 2 double double type players down low, and the only way we want to use them is via pick and roll?

if he expects to change the playing styles of a roster full of 30 somethings, he is going to be in for a surprise. he's not going to be very effective in doing it this season.

on any given night, we should have an advantage in the post with dwight, kobe, or pau, there's no reason not to abuse that advantage.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:37 am

Pau doesn't fit this offense. Apparently, D'Antoni thought he was going to be getting a different player but Pau is not a spacer, doesn't attack in the post nearly as much as he should, and has regressed since our last championship run.

I will say this: Last year, Bynum/Pau didn't work because both bigs like to operate in the pain and Pau had to be relegated to what he is going now which is shooting 20 footers. Bynum/Dwight will not work either for that same exact reason. Even though Dwight is more mobile, both bigs end up clogging up the paint and when Pau isn't making his shot, his man sags off in the paint.

We need to play Jamison/Howard more often. I'm convinced of that. In order to maximize both Jamison and Dwight, play them TOGETHER. I believe D'Antoni will. He recognized this yesterday. He has to make the adjustments with the personnel we have right now.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Doc Brown on Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:40 am

No one should be blaming Pau's role on offense on MDA. Pau has played the same way with Phil/Brown/Bernie/MDA.

4 coaches, same result.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Vasashi17 on Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:51 am

When you want to make him a sprinter at 32 and a 20 foot shooter at 7'1", you certainly can blame the coach.

Also, why are you putting Phil into the conversation with Pau. We traded for Pau and instantly got to the Finals 3 years straight, winning 2 titles. Phil got it out of Pau and everybody is treating Phil's last season like it was the norm. :freak2:
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Doc Brown on Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:00 pm

Phil's last season is the most recent one with Pau, the start of the Pau downhill trend that we are seeing in full effect right now. I included it because it was the beginning of what we are seeing now. I'm not just going to forget the 1st season Pau completely fell apart. Phil was the coach, it's not a knock on Phil, it's when Pau started playing like crap and Phil just so happened to be the coach.

The comment was more for the type of offense being run and Pau doing the same thing in all of them. You have the GOAT coach, you have the crappy coach (Brown) and the average coach (MDA) and Pau is doing the same thing with all of them. No defense, no heart, can't attack smaller players in the post, content with shooting, passive aggressive comments in the media, etc.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby themasterphil on Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:27 pm

Big respect to Mike for benching Pau....great move, it was juss need to be like that, he play like crap and he deserve that....well done Pringles
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Tobias Funke on Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:29 pm

Doc Brown wrote:No one should be blaming Pau's role on offense on MDA. Pau has played the same way with Phil/Brown/Bernie/MDA.

4 coaches, same result.


I dunno, maybe alot of people expected Pringles' offense to revive Pau's game, and to be fair Nash still isnt here so..... My expectations were a little less ambitious for reasons that others have listed already, but anyways.

Since this is the MDA thread though, I will say he deserves some time to figure it out, especially when Nash isnt here. My biggest worry though is that "Nash isn't even back yet" will become the crutch for D'Antoni that "New offense needs time" was for Brown.

Even if Nash does come back and the offense is kicking a**, I personally have my worries about our dependence on him as far as executing our offense. Im not saying Im expecting that we'll win it all without Nash, but I do think its kinda worrisome that one guy goes down and our offense basically isn't functional outside of a few solid minutes from Duhon now and again. Maybe if Nash was younger or atleast was as durable as say Fisher, Id be a little less concerned.

I have a little more to add on this but Ive got to head out the door. (This entire post wasnt directed at you either DB, just maybe the first line or two).
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:37 pm

^Even before the hiring of MDA, I realized we the difference between Howard and Bynum would be incremental; Nash was the key to all this from the very beginning even when Brown was a head coach. He needed the keys to run this offense and do what Nash does best.

IMO, having D'Antoni gives the opportunity to Nash to have an understanding of running an offense he's already ran on a very high level. I'll D'Antoni a pass and what we do these next 2 months...
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:43 pm

People forget bringing Nash in was one of the main reasons we wanted to keep Pau. They were supposed to work really well together (and I still think they can), but we never even got an opportunity to see in action. Nash should (hopefully) be back before the trade deadline. I think we'll see some improvement from Pau by then.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby revgen on Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:45 pm

dwighthowardsdad wrote:^Even before the hiring of MDA, I realized we the difference between Howard and Bynum would be incremental; Nash was the key to all this from the very beginning even when Brown was a head coach. He needed the keys to run this offense and do what Nash does best.

IMO, having D'Antoni gives the opportunity to Nash to have an understanding of running an offense he's already ran on a very high level. I'll D'Antoni a pass and what we do these next 2 months...


I've also felt the same way. People made much more out the Howard deal than us getting Nash. Having a legit PG on the floor is a must if we're not running the triangle.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby tigerjeterkobe on Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:40 pm

I have been saying it since July 4, and will repeat it again -- Nash won't make Gasol that much better.

Gasol's problems stem more from his mental weakness and physical softness than from his declining athleticism. Nash won't help Gasol rebound better, or not play matador defense against Cousins, Z-bo, Dirk, Bosh, etc. Gasol lost two easy rebounds to Rudy Gay and Speights.

Also, Nash won't help with Gasol's fumble-itis.

In fact, Nash may make Gasol markedly worse -- emphasizing that Gasol can't be relied upon to hit big shots at big moments or to make good decisions with the ball in pressure situations (like we saw last year against OKC, and this year against the Spurs, etc.). The more pick and pops and pick and rolls Nash sets up for Gasol, the more he will miss the Js and get swatted at the basket or miss pressure free throws.

Lastly, we see Kobe play pick and roll with Gasol ALL THE TIME. Last year, game 4 against OKC, we are down 1, last minutes of the game, Kobe runs a beautiful pick and roll with Gasol. Bounce pass as Gasol rolls. He catches it cleanly and is 12 feet from the basket. He can (1) dribble aggressively right into help-defender Ibaka to draw the foul or try to finish off the glass over him; (2) shoot the WIDE OPEN mid-range J (since Bynum is by himsel on the weakside for any long rebound); or (3) take one simple dribble to make Ibaka step out just a litle, then lob it easily to Bynum for the slam (and to likely win the game). What does he do? None of the above. He makes no play. Doesn't force Ibaka into a bad situation as the help defender. Doesn't shoot it. Instead, as the WIDE OPEN ROLL PLAYER with an open lane to the basket, he decides a cross-court pass to.........World Peace!!!???? :man3: Durant steals, layup, game. Kobe called him out after the game and was obviously ticked off about the continued playoff slumping Gasol. Nash won't fix that...lack of heart and clutchness. Gasol DOES NOT WANT THE BALL in those situations.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby lakersin4 on Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:58 pm

I'm not really counting on Nash pumping up Gasol's stats.. I'm hoping Nash comes out & puts up the numbers he did with Pringles in PHX. If we can get that, we don't need to count on Pau to revisit his prime. Pringles made it clear he is going to put the ball in Nash's hands. I'm reserving judgement.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Rooscooter on Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:35 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:When you want to make him a sprinter at 32 and a 20 foot shooter at 7'1", you certainly can blame the coach.

Also, why are you putting Phil into the conversation with Pau. We traded for Pau and instantly got to the Finals 3 years straight, winning 2 titles. Phil got it out of Pau and everybody is treating Phil's last season like it was the norm. :freak2:


Well this assumes Pau is doing exactly what the coaches are telling him. His first 1/2 year here he played this way.... then he didn't for a couple years and now it's back for 3 it seems.... there is a trend and an anomaly in that statement....

Just because he did something once for a stretch doesn't mean that's the "norm" for him or even his comfort zone.....

Pau needs to be a center IMO.... he cannot exist in a system with no shooters and another post dominant big.... if were Dirk that's one thing but guys like Bynum and Howard it's completely another.

I just can't believe that Phil, Brown and the group this year are telling him not to post up and take it strong to the hoop when he's the only big in there.... FFS I've seen him set up Hill in the Post more than he's been in there....
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Ras Algethi on Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:17 pm

I liked MDA's substitution patterns tonight. He rotated guys out at the right time, kept them fresh.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby trodgers on Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:19 pm

^ He did. Kept starting minutes down, too. Even in the first half (before it was a certified blowout).
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby purp n gold on Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:21 pm

Ras Algethi wrote:I liked MDA's substitution patterns tonight. He rotated guys out at the right time, kept them fresh.


Agreed. I thank Ron for getting us off the hot start, the Mavs never responded and D'Antoni was able to manage this game on cruise control
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby dj vitus on Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:42 pm

Gasol is averaging 37:17 minutes per game on the season.

That's a lot for anyone, much less a 7-footer. Amongst bigs, only Chicago's Joakim Noah plays more; but Bulls players don't count, because Chicago coach Tom Thibodeau is unique amongst NBA coaches in not caring whether or not his players are playing entirely too many minutes, or through injury.

If I'm reading this right... nice pot shot at Thibs. :man10:
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Finwë on Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:07 pm

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:People forget bringing Nash in was one of the main reasons we wanted to keep Pau. They were supposed to work really well together (and I still think they can), but we never even got an opportunity to see in action. Nash should (hopefully) be back before the trade deadline. I think we'll see some improvement from Pau by then.

lol before the trade deadline? where's the optimism? I say he's back before christmas, maybe 3 weeks from now
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:33 am

^^^^ It will be a month on next Tuesday ... small fractures take around 6 weeks to heal + add 2-3 weeks for conditioning and going back to shape ... won't be back before early to mid January
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby MC on Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:57 am

I totally agree with those who say Pau needs to play a lot more Center than PF....... If they could just reduce his overall minutes to around 31-32 a game and have him come off the bench where you can space majority of those minutes at the C you will be able to keep both Howard and Gasol fresher while taking advantage of Gasols skill sets from the low post more.

Not too sure if this is more about them loosing Gasol mentally if they move him to a bench role but I think if they reduces his minutes some and defined him in more of a role offensively it could do wonders for their rotations and bench production.

All I know is they need to find a rotation that squeezes more out of the bench guys, this older core won't hold up too these minutes while trying to play at a quicker pace at the same time. I understand over playing Bryant right now do to Nash being out but overplaying anyone else shouldn't be a concern IMO.... they have enough depth and pieces to smooth out a better rotation even with what they currently got IMO.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby GoldenKnight on Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:44 am

Subs tonight, very impressive, what do you know, a coach gives Antawn some burn at the 4 & he excels...
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby The Original 81 on Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:51 am

GoldenKnight wrote:Subs tonight, very impressive, what do you know, a coach gives Antawn some burn at the 4 & he excels...


There were several of us begging to see 'Tawn at the 4. And he has his best couple of games of the year when he gets time there, on a back to back no less...

LOL MB.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby Lakerjones on Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:38 pm

Ras Algethi wrote:I liked MDA's substitution patterns tonight. He rotated guys out at the right time, kept them fresh.


Me, too. Feels like he's really got a good understanding so far of how to utilized the bench guys. :bow: :jam2:

Huge difference between him and Brown in that regard. This alone makes the coaching change such an upgrade.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby MC on Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:32 am

lakerjones ^ I'll praise MDA's rotations once I see them with a healthy roster. He's being forced to use quite a bit of the bench due to injuries........... the question is will he continue to once his guys come back or will he go back to normal MDA kind of short rotations.

I read rumors of possibly going ofter Bell? why?..... so we can go from ancient to super ancient and try and run more? that would be a lateral mover if I ever saw one.

Also read that He believes Gasol is out of shape.............. no....... he just has some geniuses giving him 40 minute burns per game. How about using the bench long term and reducing Gasol to 32 minutes a game ALL THE TIME instead of just when he already looks spent. he's a 30+ 7 footer, not a 20 something athletic 3....

MDA has been better than Brown so far but that wasn't hard...... the firing alone had this team playing harder even before MDA was announced. Curtain things that have been said already by MDA has me very skeptical...... sounds very much like he wants to force feed his way......... of course average coaches do that kind of thing, great coaches that win find a way to maximize what they have, not force feed them into doing what they can't sustain long term.

Hope I'm wrong
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: post in 7 seconds or less

Postby borri on Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:02 am

I read rumors of possibly going ofter Bell? why?..... so we can go from ancient to super ancient and try and run more? that would be a lateral mover if I ever saw one.


Raja Bell is a career 40% 3PT shooter. That's why. That's why it's reported we are also looking at Matt Carroll.

Dantoni's system = If you can shoot. You play. Simple as that.

Outside of Meeks and Ron this season, we are lacking in shooters to maximize the "gun" part of run and gun.
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