Mike D'Antoni Discussion: "I was an idiot..." (155)

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby revgen on Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:32 am

I wouldn't say he's Mike Brown bad when it comes to rotations, since his system is more suited for small-ball. He knows you can't play halfcourt style with smaller players.

What he doesn't seem to understand is that you also need younger players to play smallball too. 30 and 40 year olds past their prime ain't gonna work. So why is he playing Farmar and Hill less minutes and 30 year olds like Nash, Blake, Kaman, and Pau more?

The age of the players simply doesn't suit the system he's trying to run. I blame part of that on the FO, but Mike needs to work with the players he has. He had a training camp to get to know these guys, so he has no excuse this time.

If you're going to play older players, you have to slow it down to make it work. As bad as Mike Brown was, he understood age/pace. Case in point, the younger Cavs team in Cleveland runs the ball quite a bit. A lot more than we ever did when Brown was the coach here.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby therealdeal on Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:52 am

^ I don't know, the pieces are here he's just not using them enough.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby Lakerjones on Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:07 am

therealdeal wrote:^ I don't know, the pieces are here he's just not using them enough.


And/or also not using them in their best positions. 32 minutes of Blake at the 2, Johnson playing 4, going with three guard lineups . . . totally frustrating and non-intuitive uses of these guys.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby jhalp on Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:28 pm

I think that in order to utilize some of the guys that are playing better, someone has to sit. I think Williams has been good on D but he has yet to really "stretch the floor". Maybe he will have some breakout games soon, but Hill needs to be getting those minutes for his rebounding and D.

Here's how I would distribute the minutes at this point (give or take).

1qrt.
PG Nash 5 Farmar 7
SG Blake 5 Meeks 7
SF Henry 8 Young 4
PF Kaman 5 Johnson 7
C Pau 7 Hill 5

2 qrt.
PG Farmar 6 Nash 6
SG Meeks 3 Young 4 Blake 5
SF Young 3 Johnson 3 Henry 6
PF Johnson 3 Hill 2 Kaman 7
C Hill 5 Pau 7

Totals:
Nash: 11
Farmar: 13
Blake: 10
Meeks: 10
Henry: 14
Kaman: 12
Pau: 14
Hill: 12
Johnson: 13
Young: 11
Williams: Roamer

Everyone is happy and minutes are going to the lineups that are most productive right now. We can plug in Sean Williams here in there for added defense and 3's. Depending on how they play the first half you make your adjustments on who gets those extra minutes in the second half.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby LakerFanIam on Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:40 pm

D'Antoni's offense is a joke... Push the ball, spread the floor, take the first open shot... Usually from distance.

This only works with elite talent or a premier point guard... We have neither.

They will win some games just based on depth & individual players getting hot on occasion, but there is no substance here...
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby LTLakerFan on Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:34 pm

LakerFanIam wrote:D'Antoni's offense is a joke... Push the ball, spread the floor, take the first open shot... Usually from distance.

This only works with elite talent or a premier point guard... We have neither.

They will win some games just based on depth & individual players getting hot on occasion, but there is no substance here...
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby davriver290 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:26 pm

I actually disagree. There is a lot of movement in the offense. We have some smart players that help with that as well. Nash, Kaman, gasol are excellent with off ball screens. And we have guys who move well without it
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby Finwë on Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:38 pm

He is insanely hard to like..
And he's not even a good coach.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby Mr_Hollywood_Line on Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:06 pm

LakerFanIam wrote:D'Antoni's offense is a joke... Push the ball, spread the floor, take the first open shot... Usually from distance.

This only works with elite talent or a premier point guard... We have neither.

They will win some games just based on depth & individual players getting hot on occasion, but there is no substance here...


Hey - didn't you get the memo?

We don't suck as bad as some folks expected, so you should just be happy. ;-) :man11: :man10:
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby Mr_Hollywood_Line on Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:08 pm

Still no "D" in D'Antoni. :bang:

Retaining this mental midget as HC is the definition of insanity, i.e., repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby karacha on Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:09 pm

Mr_Hollywood_Line wrote:Hey - didn't you get the memo?

We don't suck as bad as some folks expected, so you should just be happy. ;-) :man11: :man10:


So, what do you wants us to do? Just be unhappy instead? Is that better?

This season is what it is. We're not suddenly going to compete for the championship because CL posters are complaining on the forum. I don't see how that helps in any way. Feel free to disagree, of course.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby Doc Brown on Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:12 pm

No more Nash/Blake/Pau.

How many games does he need to see to realize we get nothing from those guys in terms of energy and defense.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:14 pm

I'm not as hard on Mike as most....well everyone.... here but I too fail to understand how he does not give Hill run early. He has to, in my opinion, coach to the game and not to whatever the game plan was. This game Hill should of been in by half-way through the first quarter.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby karacha on Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:15 pm

What needs to happen is this: Nash retires, Pau gets traded, Blake.... I don't know how we can trade him... In any case, we need to keep some of the young guys -- cheap -- (hint: Farmar, Henry, maybe Young, Hill and Wes), keep Kaman as a backup if he's willing to stay and bring two new, relatively young stars who will make it possible to be truly competitive soon. Now, this doesn't have anything to do with MDA. He's probably gone when his contract expires anyway.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby Mr_Hollywood_Line on Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:16 pm

karacha wrote:
So, what do you wants us to do? .


Allow people to express their disappointment without busting their chops.

That would be a good place to start.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby sister golden hair on Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:20 pm

puffyusaf#2 wrote:I'm not as hard on Mike as most....well everyone.... here but I too fail to understand how he does not give Hill run early. He has to, in my opinion, coach to the game and not to whatever the game plan was. This game Hill should of been in by half-way through the first quarter.



Agreed. MDA is an ideologue, but this is the fleet. Adapt or perish.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby karacha on Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:23 pm

Mr_Hollywood_Line wrote:
karacha wrote:
So, what do you wants us to do? .


Allow people to express their disappointment without busting their chops.

That would be a good place to start.


You're not allowed to express your opinion? Since when?

I'm just saying that me being unhappy isn't going to make any difference whatsoever. Like I said -- we knew how this season would look like before it started. No surprises here. I'd rather choose to be happy or indifferent this season. Makes it easier for me. You, on the other hand, can choose to be very unhappy, and that's fine too. Just don't laugh at other people if they choose not to agree with you. I don't know what's wrong with not being unhappy. "Basketball is like ball... it's all a circle." :man1:
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby Mr_Hollywood_Line on Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:32 pm

karacha wrote:
You're not allowed to express your opinion? Since when?

:


Did I say that in my post?

I don't think so.

Bottom line: Fans have every right to feel disappointed about the way things are going right now.

To berate people for expressing their feelings is uncool, IMO.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby karacha on Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:37 pm

^

I think we have a misunderstanding here. I am not berating you in any way. You have right to be disappointed -- although I don't see why you would be.... did you expect us to be one of top teams in the West this year?

(Do you see what I am saying here? I am generally disappointed if I expect one thing to happen, and something worse happens instead. Isn't that how most people feel? But this team meets my expectations so far, so I am not surprised at all.)

I was simply referring to your post that said

Hey - didn't you get the memo?

We don't suck as bad as some folks expected, so you should just be happy. ;-) :man11: :man10:


I'm not sure why you are laughing at those who are not unhappy. Everyone has right to be as happy or unhappy as they want.

For example, I am not laughing at you right now. You continue being unhappy if you wish.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby Doc Brown on Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:42 pm

Mike Bresnahan ‏@Mike_Bresnahan 1m
Lakers' starting five combined for a whopping 29 points tonight. Maybe Xavier Henry can push them past 30 in the final 3 mins.
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:bang:
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby Lakerjones on Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:55 pm

Doc Brown wrote:No more Nash/Blake/Pau.

How many games does he need to see to realize we get nothing from those guys in terms of energy and defense.


Agreed - having the three guys in together as starters is going to put you behind in nearly every single game. Henry starting with them isn't enough.

First, you have to break up the two Steve's. That idea was GARBAGE. I'm not calling the players garbage, but simply the idea of having them play at the same time has been terrible. Blake should never play the 2. We have to stop with this. One or the other at the one is fine, but not together. It doesn't work.

I also like the idea of moving Henry to the two and Johnson to the starting 3. Start Hill, too and now we are talking. If Nash is sucking, bring in Blake as the one as the first guy off the bench.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby sister golden hair on Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:58 pm

Lakerjones wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:No more Nash/Blake/Pau.

How many games does he need to see to realize we get nothing from those guys in terms of energy and defense.


Agreed - having the three guys in together as starters is going to put you behind in nearly every single game. Henry starting with them isn't enough.

First, you have to break up the two Steve's. That idea was GARBAGE. I'm not calling the players garbage, but simply the idea of having them play at the same time has been terrible. Blake should never play the 2. We have to stop with this. One or the other at the one is fine, but not together. It doesn't work.

I also like the idea of moving Henry to the two and Johnson to the starting 3. Start Hill, too and now we are talking. If Nash is sucking, bring in Blake as the one as the first guy off the bench.


This is what I've been advocating. I never understood playing guys like Blake and W. Johnson out of position. It just makes no sense. Blake is a career backup as a PG. As a SG he's less than a back-up -- he's more like a mop-up guy. So why in the hell would you ever start him at the two?
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby borri on Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:00 pm

1. We don't have the horses/shooters to play run n' gun.
2. We don't have the horses to defend.
3. Yet we play run n gun, which exacerbates our inability to play any semblence of defense.

Total cluster@#%@% of a situation we've got here. On the brightside, a top 5 pick in this upcoming loaded draft is a real possibility.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby sister golden hair on Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:02 pm

I have a feeling -- just in my gut -- that before its all said and done, Kobe will not end his career as a laker. Major mismanagement issues that will drive him elsewhere.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby Doc Brown on Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:03 pm

Lakerjones wrote:
Doc Brown wrote:No more Nash/Blake/Pau.

How many games does he need to see to realize we get nothing from those guys in terms of energy and defense.


Agreed - having the three guys in together as starters is going to put you behind in nearly every single game. Henry starting with them isn't enough.

First, you have to break up the two Steve's. That idea was GARBAGE. I'm not calling the players garbage, but simply the idea of having them play at the same time has been terrible. Blake should never play the 2. We have to stop with this. One or the other at the one is fine, but not together. It doesn't work.

I also like the idea of moving Henry to the two and Johnson to the starting 3. Start Hill, too and now we are talking. If Nash is sucking, bring in Blake as the one as the first guy off the bench.


Completely agree LJ.

But guess what it doesn't matter because.....

Mike Trudell ‏@LakersReporter 30s
D’Antoni said there was a lack of grit. Still searching for the best line ups. He didn’t think the bigger one (Hill at 4) fared any better.
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This dips*** can't see that the Blake and Nash backcourt is killing us and doesn't work.
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