Mike D'Antoni Discussion: RESIGNS AS LAKERS COACH (184)

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby Vasashi17 on Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:01 am

Doc, thanks for the well thought out rebuttal. Wsoldier, I do agree to a certain extent with you. Real, karacha and Weez....y'all posts are trash :man9: ...I guess its whats expected by the mods on this site (actually, disregard that last part).

Seriously though fellas, I'm trying to play a role this season. I'm just wearing my anti-fan hat till my hissy fitting ways gets me a team identity I can get behind. Its a little fun going against the grain from time to time. If the team sucks, well, its cause this fan told you so....if the team succeeds, then I'll gladly eat crow while I hide behind the cheers. Win-win...

That being said, I highly doubt this formula will be successful. Doc brought up some good references...Dallas had Carlisle and Miami has Spoels. I understand that the players come first and its an extremely important factor when it comes to title pedigree, but those coaches have a good defensive catalog.

Dallas had the TyChandlers, Shawn Marions, heck even the JKidd's (even though dude has a tough time guarding a cup of soda these days). Miami has some defensive aces themselves....but what brings it out are the coaches and the defensive identity he gives them. We had DHoward last year and sure he wasn't healthy and he was worried more with offensive touches, but you give a defensive coach a DHoward and a MWP and it should take you to a nice place. Instead we were 19th in the league last year in defensive efficiency.

Which brings us to offensive efficiency. MDA from day one claimed he wanted to dial up our offensive possessions and the percentages will work themselves out....yet dude won't take credit for the 7 seconds or less concept. :man3: The Lakers are 3rd in offensive possessions in the league.....and we are 16th in offensive efficiency. Meanwhile, Portland and Miami (the other 3ball shooters) are 1 and 2 respectively in offensive efficiency. They are 15th and 16th respectively in offensive possessions. What that tells me is that these teams are shooting, they ain't chucking...huge difference!

Meanwhile Miami is top 5 in defensive efficiency while Portland is 21st. Come playoff time, we'll see which identity works better, but my gut is telling me Miami will probably go further than Portland....and I'm sure their 3ball chucking ways will gravitate down closer to the midline.

I guess my gripe is that we are having way too many wasted possessions out there....and that is actually being encouraged. I don't care that most of the teams in the nba are playing this way. As we have seen in the past, its good coaches with a good coaching pedigree of both offense and defense that eventually takes home the hardware. MDA isn't that guy and LA isn't just some random team in this league. We shouldn't go along with what the rest of the league is doing....they should follow our lead. That's what Dr. Buss did. Its what his kid should do!
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby therealdeal on Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:17 am

Good point and I think that's coming, but right now there's no reason not to give the guy a LITTLE credit. The team is performing much better than we thought they would. We're 10th in the conference, but only 2.5 games behind first in our division. That's worth some praise for a team of misfits that as you said is wasting possessions.

I think much like the Kobe deal, this team is working it's way to finding out how to best handle the new CBA which was designed to be a Laker killer. Personally I think this contract helped justify Kobe's ego, but also helped to show the league that the Lakers will help their star players. To attract free agents who are expecting max money and can get far more money from their home teams, the Lakers made a move to show them that they'll be well taken care of late into their careers. In fact they'll be taken care of even if they're hurt with no clear proof of return. It was a calculated move designed out of necessity but also great forward thinking.

I know you don't agree, but I don't see why it has to be only a move for Kobe and not a move for both parties.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby karacha on Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:18 am

I get it Vash, I really do.

But realistically, we just need to play more consistent D. As Real said earlier, we are capable of playing good defense, but we don't do it too often. We need a big who can have some impact, because Pau is not doing the job right now. He's old, hurt, whatever, I get it. But it's obvious we can't count on him anymore.

A team like Miami simply has better players and there's nothing we can do about that. I'm thinking that, with Kobe we'll be slightly better and then finding a young player who can make his impact on the defensive end, plus another star might give us a winning combination. In any case, I am hopeful. But I am unwilling to criticize MDA right now, because he is working very hard, guys are responding well to him and like playing for him. I like the unity of the team right now, and that's a good start. Mitch might be able to make us a contender again. We finally have enough youth, speed and athleticism, shooting is not half-bad either. The bench is one of the best benches in the league. Just need to put in a defensive effort more consistently and a sprinkle of extra star power to close games. That might be the winning combination.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby borri on Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:28 am

Ya'll know I've been bashing Antoni ever since he arrived, and rightly so. But damn, no one expected this team to be 10-9. I begrudgingly give Antoni credit.

Look at it this way, if we had known prior to the start of the season that:

1. Nash was really truly DONE.
2. Pau's decline was much much steeper than we'd thought.

Most of us would have predicted a lottery team vying for the most lottery balls.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby Vasashi17 on Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:47 am

I can't fault any of your reasoning. And really there is nothing I necessarily disagree with. Believe it or not, I'm actually more PO'd with management rather than MDA.

In the end, I just think its a colossal waste of time, waste of money and waste of support....and I'm not talking about the team...I'm talking about the fans.

I will refuse to get behind something that was a self-inflicted wound. Ownership needs to own up...they trolled the fans and continue to do so. Till they admit the error of their ways, I just can't get on board.

MDA got his training camp and got players to better suit his system. I guess that will make for an entertaining season and a postseason flameout. Kobe's coming back and he doesn't have the strength yet to hit the low block, so I'm sure he will be gunning from the arc as well. But when it comes down to the stretch run, I'm sure Kob will do what he did last year...make MDA reevaluate the offense.

But what Kob really needs to do is have management reevaluate themselves. But with the extension, that ship has sailed too... :freak2:

Either way, I guess we all have to keep hope alive in some way. You guys will keep hoping that this team could possibly make some noise this year with the return of the Mamba....meanwhile I'll keep hoping that this thing will eventually fail and some necessary changes will have to be enforced....and the antifan is born.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby karacha on Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:04 am

What the owners have to do is simple: sell the team to someone who can do a better job. Someone with a vision.

Until then, we can at least try to have some fun, that's all I'm saying. :man12:
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:59 am

^^^^^ We will need to have plenty of bad seasons (decades ?) for this idea to be even considered ...

I don't trust the current Lakers ownership to build a serious contender for the upcoming years ... it's going to take a while before passing the Celtcpricks in the number of titles category ... and as a fan it's killing me...

Vash reasoning is correct , we need some bad seasons so ownership will be forced to take a look in the mirror ... being an average team is the worst situation to be stucked in ... when it comes to draft picks AND ownership self assessment
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby borri on Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:41 pm

wcsoldier81 wrote:^^^^^ We will need to have plenty of bad seasons (decades ?) for this idea to be even considered ...

I don't trust the current Lakers ownership to build a serious contender for the upcoming years ... it's going to take a while before passing the Celtcpricks in the number of titles category ... and as a fan it's killing me...

Vash reasoning is correct , we need some bad seasons so ownership will be forced to take a look in the mirror ... being an average team is the worst situation to be stucked in ... when it comes to draft picks AND ownership self assessment


I have a little more faith in the organization than you guys. Here's how i look at it:

1. Jim DID try. He would have succeeded had it not been for Stern. We would have had CP3 AND D12 and our future would have been set for another decade or less.

2. By doing the above, it shows that Jim has tried and was willing to do what needs to be done to make us CHIP contenders. Makes me have a little more faith in the org.

3. The state we are in now. Who is available this summer that will carry Kobe's flag? Melo? Hell no. As much as I would like to tank to get Wiggins/Parker.....my pride tells me, this is the Lakers....we don't tank for anything.

4. So what we are doing now is be competitive at least, and go all in for Durant come '16 and Love come '15. This is clearly the plan they have in place. I find comfort in knowing that there is in fact a plan.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby LakerFan1235 on Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:06 pm

The funniest part about those wanting us to tank is they think we'll be guaranteed some top pick. Have you guys looked at the east? 11 of their teams have worst records than us and will continue to do so and will have a better shot in the lottery. What if we tanked and ended up with the 9th pick, how happy would you be then?
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby Chillbongo on Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:19 pm

There's just no point in complaining at this point. We lost our LEGEND to a severe injury, our marquee free-agent walked to Houston, our legendary prolific owner passed away and left the team to his (questionably) capable heirs. We had a $100M payroll.

The fact that we are 10-9 is f***** FANTASTIC. Do people not understand this? Name me one person on that team who is a star player. Or team leader.

The fact is - MDA got his squad and it is quite nice to see his system in action. This team is feisty on D. Our problem is interior D and rebounding. And over-reliance on the 3. But not necessarily to MDA's fault. It's personnel. Outside of the 3-ball chucking, anyways.

I was probably one of the most vocal MDA critics last season. And I'm shutting the f*** up. What other options did we have? Did you really think this team would be 10-9 WITHOUT KOBE?

Dude's system is working. Probably won't get us a title, but I like us competing. Fact is, we're not rebuilding or anything like that until Kobe's career is done.

I've seen a better defensive effort this year than last. If we can get a big this summer via trade and keep our guys together with a healthy Kobe - I'm not ready to rule out being a contender. Not yet.

I admit I was harsh with MDA last season but NO COMPLAINTS this year. Let's be realistic. This season is going better than we thought.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby Frank Dux on Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:39 pm

The man has been bashed a lot, but he's done a hell of job so far coaching this group.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby Weezy on Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:56 pm

Well, 'Antoni's in trouble now, Kobe's back and I see a big reason this isn't a good fit at coach, Kobe runs things, not Mike. His rotations are off now, he obviously didn't inform Kobe that Blake is the PG, he takes out a guy doing great in Henry for no reason, and Hill barely plays until late while Pau is allowed to stink it up for a long time. This team needs to play exactly how it has been, Blake making plays, same bench rotations. Kobe is not Kobe yet, we need to run things how we have been, but does 'Antoni have the power to do it?
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby karacha on Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:57 pm

^

I agree. He needs to tell Kobe what his role is and manage those minutes better. There is a rotation that works, Hill, Blake and other guys had their roles set, why change that right now?
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby Weezy on Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:03 pm

Because Kobe is in charge and when I ask if 'Antoni has the power, what I mean is does he have the balls. I don't think so, but everyone can see what needs to be done, even Worthy is saying just now that Blake needs the ball.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby LakerFan1235 on Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:20 pm

Weezy wrote:Well, 'Antoni's in trouble now, Kobe's back and I see a big reason this isn't a good fit at coach, Kobe runs things, not Mike. His rotations are off now, he obviously didn't inform Kobe that Blake is the PG, he takes out a guy doing great in Henry for no reason, and Hill barely plays until late while Pau is allowed to stink it up for a long time. This team needs to play exactly how it has been, Blake making plays, same bench rotations. Kobe is not Kobe yet, we need to run things how we have been, but does 'Antoni have the power to do it?

Let's relax. It was one game, and a very hyped game at that. And of course he is gonna play Pau, Pau makes 19 mill and the only way we have any shot at winning anything this year is if pau gets out of this funk (though even I am finally losing faith in that happening). But, I do agree about Henry, how do you take out the only guy who was shooting well and attacking the basket? I would have taken out Meeks in that situation instead. But anyways, let's be patient, if things play out over the next 5 games like they did tonight, in terms of how D'antoni ran things, then yeah, we may have a problem.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby lukewaltonsdad on Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:25 pm

^The only way we got a shot at winning anything? I'm sorry, but that's not true, IMHO. Pau makes us much, much worse...he does nothing on offense nor defense; and when he's ineffective, he blames it on injuries. Either way, we're at a competitive disadvantage everytime Pau is on the floor, period.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby Weezy on Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:25 pm

It's not one game though, 'Antoni let Kobe dictate his own minutes last season too, and let him do what he wanted on the court, zero leash on him. We needed it then to make the playoffs, but now we don't need Kobe to do it all to help us win.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:28 pm

Kobe stubborness is the pb here ( and will be a huge pb going forward) ... it's the NBA , coaches bow down to superstars ... if not , they're shown the exit signal
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby Weezy on Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:36 pm

@KevinDing: Tonight marked eighth different Lakers starting lineup--and D'Antoni suggested it will change again. Guessing Shawne Williams for Sacre.


Not a bad suggestion, with Blake, Kobe and Pau, we need another guy out there with athleticism, that plays D, and to shoot open jumpers. Williams could help Johnson there not be the only guy doing that.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby LakerFan1235 on Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:39 pm

Weezy wrote:It's not one game though, 'Antoni let Kobe dictate his own minutes last season too, and let him do what he wanted on the court, zero leash on him. We needed it then to make the playoffs, but now we don't need Kobe to do it all to help us win.

You said it yourself, it was too make the playoffs. Kobe played 28 min tonight, the only way to shake rust off is to play. That means we may lose a few games along the way. Just be patient and don't put everything on D'antoni. As others have said, this is a superstar's league, so it's hard to challenge the guy that just got a 48 mill extension and is trying to prove that he is still worth that. All I am saying is let's give it some time before we act like the sky is falling.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby Weezy on Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:42 pm

I'm not putting everything on 'Antoni though, just those things I listed. A lot of stuff I put on Pau and his mangina. Some I have to put on Kobe, he needs to adapt.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby LakerFan1235 on Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:43 pm

lukewaltonsdad wrote:^The only way we got a shot at winning anything? I'm sorry, but that's not true, IMHO. Pau makes us much, much worse...he does nothing on offense nor defense; and when he's ineffective, he blames it on injuries. Either way, we're at a competitive disadvantage everytime Pau is on the floor, period.

I agree that Pau has been making us much worse, but we NEED him to get better, and we need him to find his confidence. At this point, I feel like we should at least ride him out till the end of this year just because of this team's chemistry alone. If he continues his 3rd consecutive year of garbage ball until the end of the season, then we offer him mle or he can walk.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby lukewaltonsdad on Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:44 pm

It's what we need; Now all Williams needs to do his make those open jumpers; Actually, I'd feel more comfortable, with Williams at the 4, Hill at the 5 Wesley at the 3 and Farmar at the 1; Or Henry at the 2 and Kobe at the 3; just my .002 cents.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby Weezy on Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:47 pm

LakerFan1235 wrote:
lukewaltonsdad wrote:^The only way we got a shot at winning anything? I'm sorry, but that's not true, IMHO. Pau makes us much, much worse...he does nothing on offense nor defense; and when he's ineffective, he blames it on injuries. Either way, we're at a competitive disadvantage everytime Pau is on the floor, period.

I agree that Pau has been making us much worse, but we NEED him to get better, and we need him to find his confidence. At this point, I feel like we should at least ride him out till the end of this year just because of this team's chemistry alone. If he continues his 3rd consecutive year of garbage ball until the end of the season, then we offer him mle or he can walk.


You said it yourself, we've been waiting 3 years. It's time to stop waiting, he's not coming around, he needs to go, he clearly is happy to just collect a paycheck. I don't offer him the mle at the end of the season, I don't offer him the minimum, I want him gone. No matter what he makes he's still gonna play bad, I don't care if he plays bad for 19 mil or 1 mil. I'd rather roll with Kamam, or Hill, or plenty of other free agent bigs on the list this summer.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion

Postby Doc Brown on Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:07 pm

Mike Bresnahan ‏@Mike_Bresnahan 1m
Mike D'Antoni is tired of big men going off for career-highs vs. the Lakers. "In the paint, we're awful and we've got to get tougher."
Expand


Says this and then done this....

Mark Medina ‏@MarkG_Medina 4m
Lakers starting lineup tonight: Blake, Bryant, Meeks, Williams, Gasol. Robert Sacre coming off the bench
Expand


We are going to get killed on the boards and in the paint. This is one of the worst starting lineups of the season IMO.

And if you are sick of people going off on you, you don't put in 3 guards and two crappy rebounders, neither of which are going to protect the basket.

And the revolving door of starting lineups is starting to get annoying.
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