Minor trade having major implications for Lakers

Re: Minor trade having major implications for Lakers

Postby therealdeal on Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:42 am

lakerfan2 wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
Other players are recognizing what's going on. When Robert Sacre received his first DNP in more than a month Friday, Jordan Hill yelled out to him across the locker room, "Great work tonight, Rob." Not to chide him, but more so bring attention to the snub. When Kendall Marshall didn't get off the bench in the final quarter Sunday, Young interrupted his talk with the media to shout out, "All right, Kendall. Maybe next fourth quarter."


I don't like that.


You might like it when Jim and Jeanie take notice and fire D'Antoni next season. :man1:

I think two things are in play here...

1. D'Antoni will be fired regardless. I truly believe this.
2. I think this plan is coming down from the FO. They want to see what they've got in these young guys so they're going to get minutes over players they feel they've already evaluated. At least for a while.
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Re: Minor trade having major implications for Lakers

Postby lukewaltonsdad on Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:47 am

I like some of these players we have on this roster; not one of them are legit NBA starters but they could make up a very good bench; also, very inexpensive...that would be nice.
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Re: Minor trade having major implications for Lakers

Postby West's Formula 44 on Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:20 pm

therealdeal wrote:I think two things are in play here...

1. D'Antoni will be fired regardless. I truly believe this.


What a circus our coaching job has become since Jerry passed control of the team over to Jim. It's not the prize it once was. That has to effect our ability to lure the best coaching talent to Los Angeles.
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Re: Minor trade having major implications for Lakers

Postby Doc Brown on Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:23 pm

M2K wrote:1) Yes... really... playing better players increase the chance of their team winning.

2) Yes... but in either case... stink or not stink... we want to pay them as little money as possible. So, unless you have a crystal ball guaranteeing the FO these two players will definitely stink, we have to go on the premise that "the ability we've seen so far" will contribute to winning games next year.

3) Yes... we need to continue showcasing players that suck in an effort to raise their value by them "having a few" good games so some hopeful GM will bite in the offseason.

4) Yes... want two players to be pissed at MDA for not given floor time... so the reputation of MDA having problem with players continues to grow and give those in the Lakers organization, not named Jim Buss, more ammunition to use in their internal discussions about making a coaching change or not.

5) Yes... Maybe... and Maybe... which is better than guaranteeing that MDA is our coach next year.

Glad I could help you better understand why we should give Brooks and Bazemore less playing time.


How big of a difference is Brooks/Bazemore compared to Meeks/Johnson. How many wins do they add?

There is no hiding players in the NBA, you don't think teams know what these players can do?

You think we are just going to sign and trade all these players? We would be lucky to get 1 at best. That isn't how the NBA works. We've played almost 60 games, everyone knows what these players can and can't do.

Your MDA argument is pretty bad. MDA isn't getting fired for not playing B/B. That's silly.
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Re: Minor trade having major implications for Lakers

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:10 pm

I don't see an issue with how MDA is playing certain players right now. We know he doesn't like back to the basket bigs…. so I can understand the Kaman/Hill/Sacre issues. As for the yappin that some of the other players are doing…. lets keep in mind the they are playing for their NBA lives and they want every opportunity to light it up to get the next team interested.

This season is lost….. PT for certain players and not for others can't change that.

As for the B's…. we'll see. I'm still of the mind that very few if any players escape the value proposition in this league. There are a few exceptions here and there but the league always catches up with the "sudden" surprises. These guys were "end of the bench" material for a reason. They each seem to have one aspect to their game that is at this level but few others.

We'll be signing more similar players next year if Mitch was being truthful so these guys may be playing for a spot on next years patchwork roster.
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Re: Minor trade having major implications for Lakers

Postby therealdeal on Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:25 pm

West's Formula 44 wrote:
therealdeal wrote:I think two things are in play here...

1. D'Antoni will be fired regardless. I truly believe this.


What a circus our coaching job has become since Jerry passed control of the team over to Jim. It's not the prize it once was. That has to effect our ability to lure the best coaching talent to Los Angeles.

It's still the same prize as it's ever been. Jerry had just as much trouble finding the right coach as Jim has some far. Things will balance out.
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Re: Minor trade having major implications for Lakers

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:38 pm

Jimmy must know by now that MDA is a bust. He just doesn't want to lose any more money on buyouts.
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Re: Minor trade having major implications for Lakers

Postby therealdeal on Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:40 pm

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:Jimmy must know by now that MDA is a bust. He just doesn't want to lose any more money on buyouts.

We're tanking right now. D'Antoni is already under contract and he does a decent job of showcasing players.

What's the harm in letting him coach out this season? He'll win us too many games? :man10:
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Re: Minor trade having major implications for Lakers

Postby Chillbongo on Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:56 pm

therealdeal wrote:
V.V.V.V.V. wrote:Jimmy must know by now that MDA is a bust. He just doesn't want to lose any more money on buyouts.

We're tanking right now. D'Antoni is already under contract and he does a decent job of showcasing players.

What's the harm in letting him coach out this season? He'll win us too many games? :man10:

Plus with all the injuries, there's not necessarily crystal-clear precedent to fire him. Objectively, as a boss. That would send a poor signal to future potential coaches. Team gets decimated by injuries and coach gets fired. We all know there's a laundry list of reasons to fire Pringles, but you have to look from the outside in.

Plus we really need to consider how drastic a mid-season coaching change is on the team & players. It messes with morale, minutes, and chemistry. Not that we need to win games, but we want to retain certain players, don't we?
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Re: Minor trade having major implications for Lakers

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:59 pm

West's Formula 44 wrote:
therealdeal wrote:I think two things are in play here...

1. D'Antoni will be fired regardless. I truly believe this.


What a circus our coaching job has become since Jerry passed control of the team over to Jim. It's not the prize it once was. That has to effect our ability to lure the best coaching talent to Los Angeles.


You do remember 1989-1999 right?
Let me remind you….
Dunleavy
Pfund
Bertka
Magic
Harris
Bertka
Rambis

Jerry fired a championship coach to hire the color commentator at one point…… I was in LA when that happened…. you want to talk media sh*t storm…… It turned out OK as the color commentator was Pat Riley but at the time the fan base was lighting torches…..

How many coaches in the NBA currently coaching have coached championship teams? Now…. how many of them are available?

Our coaching situation will be much different when we have championship personnel again…. MDA will be long gone by then as well.
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Re: Minor trade having major implications for Lakers

Postby TIME on Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:14 pm

Rooscooter wrote:
West's Formula 44 wrote:
therealdeal wrote:I think two things are in play here...

1. D'Antoni will be fired regardless. I truly believe this.


What a circus our coaching job has become since Jerry passed control of the team over to Jim. It's not the prize it once was. That has to effect our ability to lure the best coaching talent to Los Angeles.


You do remember 1989-1999 right?
Let me remind you….
Dunleavy
Pfund
Bertka
Magic
Harris
Bertka
Rambis

Jerry fired a championship coach to hire the color commentator at one point…… I was in LA when that happened…. you want to talk media sh*t storm…… It turned out OK as the color commentator was Pat Riley but at the time the fan base was lighting torches…..

How many coaches in the NBA currently coaching have coached championship teams? Now…. how many of them are available?

Our coaching situation will be much different when we have championship personnel again…. MDA will be long gone by then as well.


Yeah, some historical perspective is helpful. Dr. Buss, for all his amazing positives as an owner had one really really big blind spot; his coaching choices. If I remember, even the Pat Riley hire fell into his lap. Buss wanted Jerry West to be the head coach with Riley as his top assistant. At the news conference Jerry West announced Riley as the head coach because he didn't want the pressure of coaching again. Someone correct me if I am remembering it wrong. The only coach that Buss picked that worked out was Phil, and he couldn't stand him other than the winning part.
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Re: Minor trade having major implications for Lakers

Postby Alleyhoops on Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:33 pm

I have no issue with Brooks and Bazemore getting PT at the expense of players whose games we are already familiar with. This is an audition period for next season.

Going forward, I am fine with rebuilding the right way, which may include not spending all of our available cash next year in a knee jerk reaction to simply add a “name” to the roster. Let’s do this correctly and carefully. And with a plan.

I am also fine with adding a high draft pick and bringing back the nucleus of this squad next year. When this team was relatively healthy and playing just .500 ball, I was really enjoying watching this group play together. I’d like to see a healthy Kobe play with this team.

And yeah, the biggest change I’d make in the off-season is the guy drawing up the Xs and Os.
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Re: Minor trade having major implications for Lakers

Postby Psychobroker on Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:04 pm

Sowing the seeds of discord like this only ensures the FO's decision to tank, but do in a style that looks like something else... pretty sly, imho, but it's not hard to see through.
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Re: Minor trade having major implications for Lakers

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:14 pm

TIME wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:
West's Formula 44 wrote:
therealdeal wrote:I think two things are in play here...

1. D'Antoni will be fired regardless. I truly believe this.


What a circus our coaching job has become since Jerry passed control of the team over to Jim. It's not the prize it once was. That has to effect our ability to lure the best coaching talent to Los Angeles.


You do remember 1989-1999 right?
Let me remind you….
Dunleavy
Pfund
Bertka
Magic
Harris
Bertka
Rambis

Jerry fired a championship coach to hire the color commentator at one point…… I was in LA when that happened…. you want to talk media sh*t storm…… It turned out OK as the color commentator was Pat Riley but at the time the fan base was lighting torches…..

How many coaches in the NBA currently coaching have coached championship teams? Now…. how many of them are available?

Our coaching situation will be much different when we have championship personnel again…. MDA will be long gone by then as well.


Yeah, some historical perspective is helpful. Dr. Buss, for all his amazing positives as an owner had one really really big blind spot; his coaching choices. If I remember, even the Pat Riley hire fell into his lap. Buss wanted Jerry West to be the head coach with Riley as his top assistant. At the news conference Jerry West announced Riley as the head coach because he didn't want the pressure of coaching again. Someone correct me if I am remembering it wrong. The only coach that Buss picked that worked out was Phil, and he couldn't stand him other than the winning part.


I think Mckinney was the coach when he bought the team and when he fell off his bike Westhead replaced him as the interim coach and was installed as the head coach at the end of the season….. a championship season at that. He had issues with Magic and it was Magic, Kareem or him so it was him…. Riley was an assistant to Westhead (went there from color commentator after the McKinney bike accident). It was at the press conference announcing Westhead's firing 6 games in that Buss announced that West would be the head coach and West declined….. right in front of the cameras….. Buss fumbled and announced that West and Riley would be "co-head coaches". West later clarified that he wasn't anything other than an advisor to Riley. It was all to keep Magic happy as he was demanding a trade at the time publicly and wasn't real happy with the team being led by Kareem.

The list I provided above is what happened after Riley…. So Buss didn't even pick Riley or Westhead….

I'd say by that historic measure….. Jimmy is no worse than pop….. so far anyway.

What most "recent" Laker fans don't fully understand is that Jerry Buss was considered a slightly more educated version of Hugh Hefner when he bought the Lakers…. he was an inexperienced sports owner that stumbled into a great situation. His best move early was convincing West to go from Scout to General Manager. When he bought the Lakers from Cooke in 79 the thought was that it was a Real Estate deal (the Forum as well as a huge ranch were the focus of the deal) and that the Lakers and Kings would be sold off…. I still remember the editorial in the Times to that effect. The reputation that he enjoyed in his latter years was built in the mid to late 80's and the last 18 years….. He was definitely not viewed the same when he bought the team.
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Re: Minor trade having major implications for Lakers

Postby West's Formula 44 on Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:46 pm

TIME wrote:Yeah, some historical perspective is helpful. Dr. Buss, for all his amazing positives as an owner had one really really big blind spot; his coaching choices. If I remember, even the Pat Riley hire fell into his lap. Buss wanted Jerry West to be the head coach with Riley as his top assistant. At the news conference Jerry West announced Riley as the head coach because he didn't want the pressure of coaching again. Someone correct me if I am remembering it wrong. The only coach that Buss picked that worked out was Phil, and he couldn't stand him other than the winning part.


So you see Jim Buss as being humble enough to admit he was wrong and hire a coach he had previously disdained?
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Re: Minor trade having major implications for Lakers

Postby TIME on Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:06 pm

West's Formula 44 wrote:
TIME wrote:Yeah, some historical perspective is helpful. Dr. Buss, for all his amazing positives as an owner had one really really big blind spot; his coaching choices. If I remember, even the Pat Riley hire fell into his lap. Buss wanted Jerry West to be the head coach with Riley as his top assistant. At the news conference Jerry West announced Riley as the head coach because he didn't want the pressure of coaching again. Someone correct me if I am remembering it wrong. The only coach that Buss picked that worked out was Phil, and he couldn't stand him other than the winning part.


So you see Jim Buss as being humble enough to admit he was wrong and hire a coach he had previously disdained?


Not sure. But if you are asking if I think Jim Buss is likely to develop into a similarly great owner as his father, then no, I don't think he will. I've got lot's of reasons to have no confidence in Jim Buss, but my point was that in fairness, his father did not have a great track record in coaching hires either.
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Re: Minor trade having major implications for Lakers

Postby Weezy on Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:04 pm

Interesting post game interview along these lines from Pau right now. Said it's hard with 2 new guys coming in and playing a lot of minutes. Said there's no discipline on this team right now to keep the team playing team ball, have the extra pass to the open mad made. Sounds like a coaching issue to me. He looked very "meh, I don't care" during the whole interview. I know we're tanking, but I still don't like seeing a team with no direction getting worse and worse, with no coaching discipline, bunch of guys out there trying to get theirs.
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Re: Minor trade having major implications for Lakers

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:08 pm

^^Nothing to play for.... welcome to the bottom 20 teams in the league. This is what they play like on a nightly basis after the break. Everyone is playing for their next contract. Who can blame them?
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Re: Minor trade having major implications for Lakers

Postby kray28 on Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:14 pm

The nightmare ends when D'Antoni gets handed the pink slip.
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Re: Minor trade having major implications for Lakers

Postby MC on Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:40 am

Roos/Time - good inner info, I was watching the Lakers at that time but at a very young age so didn't really get into the business side or back door politics of things back than..... I do remember them hiring Riley after a slow start and as history turned out rightfully so...the "system" has not had much success outside of 1 loyola Merimont NCAA team and a couple of WNBA championships....his success as a professional basketball coach peaked in that "magical" ride where a rook was a nightmare match up for a vet 76ers team.....really this was the time when as a kid I fell in love with the game of basketball.

I think there are a lot of similarities to Jerry and Jim as it relates to what they think entertaining basketball is.... they like a certain philosophy of play....entertaining but not the best or most proven way to winning trophies....they get enamored with running, wide open basketball....if you wanted to compare to old school they like the ABA style of ball rather than traditional NBA style of ball.
I don't think Jerry knew anymore than his kid about basketball..... his comments during those good Suns teams years under MDA saying those teams reminded him of showtime....to me only goes to show how little he understood how showtime even worked in the first place. Outside of trying to push the ball/filling the lanes in transition and from out of bounds I see no similarities in MDA ball and Showtime basketball.... the half court game which really is your base is night and day....showtime understood where the ball got funneled and how to feed a big dog...MDA doesn't know what a big dog is until he's being destroyed by one when the games really count.

Where father and son differ it would seem is ego....... I think the old man was willing to byte his a little more than the spoon fed kid...... One just wanted to win....the other wants to win his way......one proved himself, the other is desperate to do this out of the shadows of his old man his way ..........

How it plays out...we'll see......
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Re: Minor trade having major implications for Lakers

Postby Weezy on Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:54 am

I think that's a major point in all this though, people say Jerry surrounded himself with, or at least put guys in important positions, that knew basketball and what they were doing. From Roos and TIME's comments, maybe some of that was luck, but he did go with it when those guys showed they knew what they were doing, and he clearly did know Jerry West was important to have since he wanted him to coach. The knock on Jim a lot of the time so far is that he hasn't surrounded himself with great basketball minds, only Mitch is still here, other than that he seems to want to do it on his own, his way. Whether that's true or not, and if it is if it continues that way we will have to see, those are just reports, it's always hard to know what all really goes on.
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Re: Minor trade having major implications for Lakers

Postby West's Formula 44 on Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:33 am

therealdeal wrote:It's still the same prize as it's ever been. Jerry had just as much trouble finding the right coach as Jim has some far. Things will balance out.


I dunno. The most tumultuous time for Laker coaches (pre-Jim Buss) was after Magic retired the first time. Those were some pretty talented teams and everyone knew Jerry Buss's commitment to winning and his ability to put a winning product on the court. And as psychotic as some of those players were, we still had Nick Van Exel, Vlade Divac, Cedric Ceballos, Elden Campbell (million dollar body and ten cent head), and Eddie Jones. These were bonafide NBA players. Right now we're not sure what we have. Nor how the new CBA will affect our ability to improve.
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Re: Minor trade having major implications for Lakers

Postby TIME on Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:42 am

Weezy wrote:I think that's a major point in all this though, people say Jerry surrounded himself with, or at least put guys in important positions, that knew basketball and what they were doing. From Roos and TIME's comments, maybe some of that was luck, but he did go with it when those guys showed they knew what they were doing, and he clearly did know Jerry West was important to have since he wanted him to coach. The knock on Jim a lot of the time so far is that he hasn't surrounded himself with great basketball minds, only Mitch is still here, other than that he seems to want to do it on his own, his way. Whether that's true or not, and if it is if it continues that way we will have to see, those are just reports, it's always hard to know what all really goes on.



I think something that worked to Dr. Buss' advantage was that he had both Jerry West and Chick Hearn. A lot of people don't know that Chick had a voice, not just in calling the games, but influencing team decisions in those days. He functioned as kind of a consulting assistant GM. Both West and Chick were very strong personalities that did not hesitate to take strong stances with Dr. Buss when a big decision needed to be made. Jim Buss seems to only have Mitch and I'm not sure Mitch has the kind of personality or approach of either West or Chick when it comes to confronting an owner.
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Re: Minor trade having major implications for Lakers

Postby Lakerjones on Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:53 am

kray28 wrote:The nightmare ends when D'Antoni gets handed the pink slip.


^^ This. We may not be great next year, but I need to see a team that actually has a chance. No more Antoni ball.
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Re: Minor trade having major implications for Lakers

Postby therealdeal on Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:04 am

West's Formula 44 wrote:
therealdeal wrote:It's still the same prize as it's ever been. Jerry had just as much trouble finding the right coach as Jim has some far. Things will balance out.


I dunno. The most tumultuous time for Laker coaches (pre-Jim Buss) was after Magic retired the first time. Those were some pretty talented teams and everyone knew Jerry Buss's commitment to winning and his ability to put a winning product on the court. And as psychotic as some of those players were, we still had Nick Van Exel, Vlade Divac, Cedric Ceballos, Elden Campbell (million dollar body and ten cent head), and Eddie Jones. These were bonafide NBA players. Right now we're not sure what we have. Nor how the new CBA will affect our ability to improve.

The prize of coaching the Lakers is still there. We're a team rich in history with a history of rewarding our hires. Look how long Brown and D'Antoni lasted even though it was clear they weren't right for the team. We pay well in a great city and treat our employees (besides the people behind the scenes, yikes) with respect.

The team in general is in a gray area, sure. But there's still plenty of hope there. As a team we're going to reset this summer. Once our team is set for the next season we'll have a much better idea of where we're going to go and the coaching situation will resolve itself.
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