Mitch confirms Mike D'Antoni will return as coach (Pg. 4)

Re: MDA returning next year as Lakers coach?

Postby Weezy on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:14 pm

I judge my team on who we beat, wins are only wins because they get you to the playoffs, quality wins show who you are as a team. This is our record vs the top teams in the West this season, I will add the Jazz because they were ahead of us most of the season, they were a top 8 team much longer than us.

Thunder: 1-3
Spurs: 1-2
Nuggets: 1-3
Clippers: 0-4
Grizzlies: 1-2
Warriors: 3-1
Rockets: 1-2
Jazz: 1-2

That's 9-19, that's horrible.

The East

Heat: 0-2
Knicks: 1-1
Pacers: 1-1
Nets: 2-0
Bulls: 1-1
Hawks: 1-1
Celtics: 1-1
Bucks: 1-1

That's 8-8, still pretty bad, both of these things mean we've pretty much had to beat a lot of crap teams to even get where we are now. So no, I don't call us successfully, and I'm not impressed. Oh and you're right Rock, I don't like 'Antoni, in fact I can't stand him.
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Re: MDA returning next year as Lakers coach?

Postby The Rock on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:16 pm

The East have only 1 team with a winning record vs teams with a winning record (Miami) so does that mean Knicks, Pacers suck and should just call it an unsuccessful season? SMH

Youre just pointing out the records without examining why it is we had such a record in the first place (coaching change, myriad of injuries)
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Re: MDA returning next year as Lakers coach?

Postby karacha on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:19 pm

What is our record against winning teams after ASG?
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Re: MDA returning next year as Lakers coach?

Postby Weezy on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:20 pm

The Rock wrote:The East have only 1 team with a winning record vs teams with a winning record (Miami) so does that mean Knicks, Pacers suck and should just call it an unsuccessful season? SMH


No, because those franchises have a much lower bar than us. You can shake your head all you want, doesn't mean we aren't a huge disappointment and that making the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed is never considered a successful season by this franchise. I'll be glad if we get in and avoid the embarrassment of missing, but that doesn't make it a success, just not as horrible of a failure.
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Re: MDA returning next year as Lakers coach?

Postby The Rock on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:24 pm

karacha wrote:What is our record against winning teams after ASG?


7-5

Wins: GSW, SAS, BOS, ATL, @IND, CHI, MEM

Loss: @LAC, @ATL, @GSW, @OKC, @DEN
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Re: MDA returning next year as Lakers coach?

Postby Weezy on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:25 pm

karacha wrote:What is our record against winning teams after ASG?


I'd have to go back and do all that research again and I'd guess it's mediocre, but does it really matter? Do we judge ourselves against "winning teams" (teams over .500) or the top teams? Our record post 17-25 is great, no question, I'm just saying we had so few true quality wins then, I'm just thankful we own the Warriors. My main point in all this is I don't want 'Antoni back, he can get regular season wins, next season we may even get a bunch more than this season, but he's never taken a team to the Finals and IMO he never will, I don't think he has what it takes. Hell I'd have been happier taking a shot on an unproven Brian Shaw
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Re: MDA returning next year as Lakers coach?

Postby The Rock on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:27 pm

Weezy wrote:
The Rock wrote:The East have only 1 team with a winning record vs teams with a winning record (Miami) so does that mean Knicks, Pacers suck and should just call it an unsuccessful season? SMH


No, because those franchises have a much lower bar than us. You can shake your head all you want, doesn't mean we aren't a huge disappointment and that making the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed is never considered a successful season by this franchise. I'll be glad if we get in and avoid the embarrassment of missing, but that doesn't make it a success, just not as horrible of a failure.


Progress is all Im asking you to see, we wouldn't be where we are if no progress was made. We've made so much progress consdering the beating this team took with injuries. If we win tonight, we're in the bracket with SAS-GSW/DEN....three teams have no size with bigs hurt (No Diaw, No Bogut, No Faried), their guardplay clearly > ours but if Dwight and Gasol are who they claim they are being two world class top notch bigs we could make it to the WCF without Kobe IMO


EDIT: I see NYK picked up a couple of wins recently so make it 2 teams in the East with a winning record, NYK (21-19)
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Re: MDA returning next year as Lakers coach?

Postby Weezy on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:32 pm

We have made progress, as in we finally started beating the teams we were supposed to. But we haven't made truly impressive progress to me, we still can't beat the best teams. Also lets not forget we got beat by the Suns and Wizards, we had to make miraculous comebacks against the Hornets and Raptors, and we could barely beat a D-League Blazers team. We had a great win vs Memphis, and the Spurs game we needed, but they also had no Gonobili and Diaw and Parker was horrible. I'm saying we need to keep realistic in our expectations, we've got a lot of wins, but not a lot of QUALITY wins, not the mark of a good team. And let's not forget, we lose tonight and Utah wins, we're not even IN the playoffs.
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Re: MDA returning next year as Lakers coach?

Postby The Rock on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:35 pm

Here are the adjustments he's made

- Jamison a true stretch 4 next to Dwight couldn't play defense so he benched him in favor of Hill
- Tried younger legs (Ebanks and Morris) in the starting lineup to see if they could bring hustle/defense..Didnt work
- Put Gasol in the post to start the season. Pau wasn't producing. Hell with the 2nd unit Pau was launching jumpers & giving up post play to Hill/Jamison
- Put the ball in Nash's hands and said Go...didnt work, so took the ball OUT of his hands and gave it to Kobe
- Ran some Horns sets (similar to princeton offense) to help Pau since he returned


He's made NUMEROUS adjustments and given everyone on the roster a shot to see if they can help. Hes exhausted all possible options, damn injuries has put a wrench in things
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Re: MDA returning next year as Lakers coach?

Postby The Rock on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:38 pm

Weezy wrote:We have made progress, as in we finally started beating the teams we were supposed to. But we haven't made truly impressive progress to me, we still can't beat the best teams. Also lets not forget we got beat by the Suns and Wizards, we had to make miraculous comebacks against the Hornets and Raptors, and we could barely beat a D-League Blazers team. We had a great win vs Memphis, and the Spurs game we needed, but they also had no Gonobili and Diaw and Parker was horrible. I'm saying we need to keep realistic in our expectations, we've got a lot of wins, but not a lot of QUALITY wins, not the mark of a good team. And let's not forget, we lose tonight and Utah wins, we're not even IN the playoffs.


Suns game, 2nd game of a back to back no Kobe. (Didnt Houston just lose to them the other day??)

Wizards loss...i'll give you that but this team is prone to bad loses against scrub teams (thats the only bad Loss at home in months that we gave away...only one)

Blazers team that Aldridge and Lillard both All star caliber players and we always have a rough time in Portland this isnt new

Ok I'll give you the Spurs loss that didn't have Diaw/Ginobili...but they played last year and we still beat them without Kobe. Its a matchup thing, we play well vs them

For the most part we havent' given away many games recently. We've won the games we should've won.
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Re: MDA returning next year as Lakers coach?

Postby Weezy on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:42 pm

I'm not giving 'Antoni credit for getting out of his own way, getting us to beat teams we should have beat all along, and riding Kobe 46-48 minutes per game to win at all costs, I'm just not. Any coach with a brain could have done these things, and some wouldn't have rode Kobe like that into the ground. There's nothing special about 'Antoni, nothing noteworthy, noting that separates him from the average coach in a good way, the Lakers want championships and they need a smart coach that knows what it takes to get there.

But Rock, I think 'Antoni is an average coach at best, you think he's improved or made progress. I'm not changing my mind, you're not changing yours, we might as well agree to disagree, no big deal, if we're stuck with him we have to hope for the best and make the best of it.
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Re: MDA returning next year as Lakers coach?

Postby Vasashi17 on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:51 pm

:man10: @ "he's exhausted all possible options." No truer words can be said about this guy...wouldn't you agree, Kobe?

I honestly don't know what you're watching out there, Rock. I get that you don't want to criticize our Coach or fault him for our NUMEROUS mishaps this season. But, to actually give the man props... :what:

We haven't seen true MDA offense since Kobe told our frontline to forget the gameplan and just get your butts in the post.

We have had MDA come out and share epiphany after epiphany in these last couple weeks. Maybe...just maybe, dude was told by Coach Vino to scrap whatever it was they were doing and go with what has worked in the past. Kobe has done this before with Rudy T as well.

All of a sudden he thinks Pau can work with Dwight....all of a sudden he thinks defense may be important. Adjustments have been made alright....What would MDA do...and then do the opposite (copyright's pending).

#WinInSpiteOfMDA
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Re: MDA returning next year as Lakers coach?

Postby SK8 on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:52 pm

The NBA on ESPN ‏@ESPNNBA 1h
Sources: Phil Jackson “itching” to return to NBA


:man1:
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Re: MDA returning next year as Lakers coach?

Postby Chillbongo on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:54 pm

Weezy wrote:I'm not giving 'Antoni credit for getting out of his own way, getting us to beat teams we should have beat all along, and riding Kobe 46-48 minutes per game to win at all costs, I'm just not.
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Re: MDA returning next year as Lakers coach?

Postby 432J on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:57 pm

phil will never coach this team again. but as shocking as it may sound, i'm happy it'll never happen

as much as i hate dan tony as HC, this team needs to move on from phil. let's face it, phil is haunting this team. because this team has had no success whatsoever without him. the rudy t experiment failed and so did mike brown. dan tony, as expected, has been a major disappointment as well. not to mention that brown and dan tony were both terrible fits for this team. dan tony will be back next season, not because of that BS "full camp and healthy roster" excuse, but because they are simply not going to want to pay 3 coaches at the same time. let's not forget that brown is still on the payroll.

as much as i wanted phil to come back and after how angry and disappointed i was at the FO for disrespecting him like they did, i've come to realize that this team can't just bring back phil everytime they fail with another coach. not saying the way they handled the situation was right by any means, but once dan tony is out, (hopefully soon) the FO really needs to sit down and think it over, which they haven't done much with the past few hires. and i hope jimmy buss doesn't have a word in it whatsoever.
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Re: MDA returning next year as Lakers coach?

Postby wcsoldier81 on Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:05 pm

Hopefully he won't be the coach when we basically can retool our full roster in 2014-2015... he's useless but this roster isn't championship material whether coached by MDA or the best coach in the world ... a title next season ain't happening too

As long as we aren't compromising the 2014 reup plan , I'm not going to lose sleep about it
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Re: MDA returning next year as Lakers coach?

Postby karacha on Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:06 pm

Weezy wrote:Do we judge ourselves against "winning teams" (teams over .500) or the top teams? ...

My main point in all this is I don't want 'Antoni back...


Well, to answer this -- we judge this season against winning teams, unfortunately. In two years that might change, but you can't be the top team every single year. Sometimes even the best have to rebuild, changes need to be made. There is nothing unusual about that. We'll be back.

You don't want D'Antoni back, which I totally understand, but regardless -- he is going to be back.
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Re: MDA returning next year as Lakers coach?

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:08 pm

I believe Phil is coming back in some capacity. It's too bad it won't be for the Lakers. I think that ship has sailed. MDA isn't going anywhere for better or worse. We'll see how D'Antoni does going forward and into the PO's.
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Re: MDA returning next year as Lakers coach?

Postby 432J on Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:14 pm

the whole point of bringing dan tony in was to bring back "showtime"

so now that they aren't even running his system, what's the point of keeping him around?

oh yeah, the fact that they would have 3 head coaches on the payroll
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Re: MDA returning next year as Lakers coach?

Postby Weezy on Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:22 pm

I think going through all I wrote in this thread I realize my problem isn't with 'Antoni this season, because no coach on earth was getting this team a championship this season. My problem is that he was hired at all, it's a terrible hire, it was a lazy coach search, and he's not worthy or our franchise. Last time we had average coaches not worthy of the franchise we didn't win for a decade. Mike Dunleavy, Randy Pfund, Magic, Del Harris, Kurt Rambis, ugh. I don't want to see that repeated, it takes a special coach to get you there, or an incredible team to make the coach not matter as much (Spoelstra :man10: ). I don't want to see us waste years with 'Antoni, because let's all be honest, we know how this ends, he's fired for a real coach after so long without titles. This is a guy who is still having to figure out BASIC things as this season goes along, like post play matters and you can be successful with 2 7 footers, wow shocker!

Lastly, since 1987, these are the coaches that have won titles,

Pat Riley, Chuck Daly, Phil Jackson, Rudy T, Gregg Popovich, Larry Brown, Doc Rivers, Rick Carlisle, and Erik Spoelstra, that is it, in over 2 decades.
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Re: MDA returning next year as Lakers coach?

Postby karacha on Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:23 pm

432J wrote:the whole point of bringing dan tony in was to bring back "showtime"

so now that they aren't even running his system, what's the point of keeping him around?

oh yeah, the fact that they would have 3 head coaches on the payroll
:man10:



You are right. They would have to pay 2 coaches to sit at home and do nothing, and then pay the 3rd one to actually... you know... coach.
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Re: MDA returning next year as Lakers coach?

Postby karacha on Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:31 pm

Weezy wrote:I think going through all I wrote in this thread I realize my problem isn't with 'Antoni this season, because no coach on earth was getting this team a championship this season. My problem is that he was hired at all, it's a terrible hire, it was a lazy coach search, and he's not worthy or our franchise. Last time we had average coaches not worthy of the franchise we didn't win for a decade.


I don't think anyone will argue that. We all agree on the championship issue, the lazy hire etc. I am just saying that it's sort of unfair to drop all that on MDA (which you probably realize), because he's not horrible. He's a very average coach. He made mistakes, but he was also open to change. Some good, some bad.

But this is not really on him; if the Lakers offered the job to you or me, I don't think we would have said -- "no guys, I am not worthy of the franchise." We would have accepted it - and the money that comes with the job - and we would have failed miserably. Realistically, MDA did everything in his power (as an average coach) to bring us where we are right now. We have a chance to compete in the playoffs, and with all these health issues and the old roster that's plenty, actually. Sad, yes. But true.

I am just saying -- let's put our personal dislike for the coach for a second... and look at the situation objectively. He eventually succeeded in at least being flexible enough to find a winning combination (instead of being stubborn, which many other coaches would be for sure), and he and his players rewarded us with some solid basketball lately. No more, no less. The rest is really on Mitch and Jim. They should've hired Phil. He would not win it all either (obviously), but he's a better coach for this team. But, it's not MDA's fault he was hired.
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Re: MDA returning next year as Lakers coach?

Postby Weezy on Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:35 pm

I'm not blaming 'Antoni for taking the job, why would I? My issue is with the FO that hired him, it's all on them and it's all on them to fix it, I just want him gone sooner than later.
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Re: MDA returning next year as Lakers coach?

Postby karacha on Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:36 pm

Alright, then I think most of us are on the same page. I am 99% sure they will give MDA one more year to try and fix things. If he somehow succeeds, great - if not, he's probably gone.
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Re: MDA returning next year as Lakers coach?

Postby Weezy on Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:44 pm

karacha wrote:Alright, then I think most of us are on the same page. I am 99% sure they will give MDA one more year to try and fix things. If he somehow succeeds, great - if not, he's probably gone.


I think we are on the same page, but I'm just angry because with 'Antoni as coach I'm already looking at next season as a failed season going in, before it's even started, and I hate that. With Kobe out we need a coach that's going to be able to put Dwight in the best position to succeed if he even stays. Plus, we keep stupidly giving coaches 3 or 4 year deals, so even if 'Antoni is fired after next season, you're STILL paying him not to coach for at least a year. So firing him now, next season, what's the difference really? I know it's not my money, but I don't feel you should keep a bad coach just because you have to pay him anyway, "eh we're paying him anyway, might as well keep him". I hope Dwight secretly demands he be fired behind the scenes in order for him to sign with us. :man10:
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