[New] Mitch Kupchak: Effort is the big worry

I'd hate to be Mitch if he had to debate about the team with you guys. You guys would've owned him lol... So many good points.

Players go hard for a system and a coach they believe in. If the players are showing a lack of effort, well....yeah.

The FO only has themselves to blame for this. A good fit for this roster my @! They disrespected the fans requests...and we weren't subtle about it! They disrespected the players by thinking they were too dumb to pick up a winning Philosophy! They disrespected a legend by wasting his twilight due to ego!

This was a self inflicted wound and unfortunately we, the fans, are the poor sobs that will bleed out the most.

therealdeal wrote:Agreed for the most part.

I know what you're saying about mentality, but that's what makes the 80s teams so damn special. Remember when guys like Worthy and Thompson could become Lakers and just accept their role? Remember when those guys would come in and maybe they have to sacrifice their games for something much greater, but they'd do it with zeal?

If Gasol could embrace being the 6th man, a la odom. If Kobe could just listen to age and let his team help him just a little more, a la Cap. If Dwight could swallow his enormous pride and allow the others to get the offense going smoothly while still patrolling the paint... If, if, if.

We're on the same page here, I just have a higher standard of mental capacity because I've been spoiled by great players in the past. Well you were too, but you're more understanding

I agree change is coming. If Gasol isn't traded sometime before the deadline in Feburary I'll be shocked. Unless of course something clicks and these guys start making a run. I'm betting on the former.

I Remember the 80's teams a little differently. Granted the media was far less of an "instigating" force then and there was no instant information like today.

The 80's teams were not without their issues.... Wilkes and Worthy didn't get along initially and Wilkes injury solved a problem that was getting pretty bad.

Kareem was probably on the way out in 81 because of tension with Magic.... He wasn't the most "marketable guy" in those days and Magic was the NBA's golden child...... Magic's knee injury helped them get back on the same page.

Nixon was never really happy about playing with Magic and was traded for a more appropriate piece in Scott....

Even McAdoo thought he should be starting over Lansberger/Rambis.

You can't forget the Spencer Haywood fiasco.... he went so far as to put a legitimate "hit" out on Pat Riley. So far no one has gone that far here.....

With all of that said..... you make a point, even though there were some real tensions in that 10 year run the coach was a strong influence and cooler heads prevailed in most cases. MDA isn't Pat Riley and these guys don't seem willing to give and take enough to become a team. Even if they did I would still have my doubts as to how effective they would be.... the balance isn't there even if each was playing to their strengths. We're missing that second dynamic player that can create his own shot at will.

But that's the point! Even besides all the craziness between X and Y player, they made it work. These guys should do the same damn thing.

therealdeal wrote:But that's the point! Even besides all the craziness between X and Y player, they made it work. These guys should do the same damn thing.

It starts from above and we don't really have a strong coach in that respect..... or ownership entity any longer.

Back in the "old days" there were fewer opportunities to make big money, be seen on TV and the Coach, GM and Owner's presence was much greater.

If, for example Jerry Buss came out and began making a few well placed comments it may get things going again, but then, even he has little leverage as Howard is a free agent, Kobe is locked in and Pau has no where else to go really....

Too many if's. If all of those happened, the powers that be would be a miracle worker for the Lakers.

therealdeal wrote:Agreed for the most part.

I know what you're saying about mentality, but that's what makes the 80s teams so damn special. Remember when guys like Worthy and Thompson could become Lakers and just accept their role? Remember when those guys would come in and maybe they have to sacrifice their games for something much greater, but they'd do it with zeal?

If Gasol could embrace being the 6th man, a la odom. If Kobe could just listen to age and let his team help him just a little more, a la Cap. If Dwight could swallow his enormous pride and allow the others to get the offense going smoothly while still patrolling the paint... If, if, if.

We're on the same page here, I just have a higher standard of mental capacity because I've been spoiled by great players in the past. Well you were too, but you're more understanding

I agree change is coming. If Gasol isn't traded sometime before the deadline in Feburary I'll be shocked. Unless of course something clicks and these guys start making a run. I'm betting on the former.

Rooscooter wrote:

therealdeal wrote:But that's the point! Even besides all the craziness between X and Y player, they made it work. These guys should do the same damn thing.

It starts from above and we don't really have a strong coach in that respect..... or ownership entity any longer.

Back in the "old days" there were fewer opportunities to make big money, be seen on TV and the Coach, GM and Owner's presence was much greater.

If, for example Jerry Buss came out and began making a few well placed comments it may get things going again, but then, even he has little leverage as Howard is a free agent, Kobe is locked in and Pau has no where else to go really....

Pau has the door, there's trades available but we're just loathe to make them in the name of "talent".

I suppose what you're saying is true, but at some point Jerry was going to pass the reins along, so it's not as if this was unavoidable. I know a lot of people would say "Well he could have given it to Jeannie!" but there's no guarantee she'd command any more respect than Jim.

Maybe this was bound to happen and we're just witnessing it at quite possibly the most in opportune moment?

Then again, when Brown was fired Jerry DID come out and say something and when he did most people discounted that too... I don't know what the answer is then Roos.

therealdeal wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:

therealdeal wrote:But that's the point! Even besides all the craziness between X and Y player, they made it work. These guys should do the same damn thing.

It starts from above and we don't really have a strong coach in that respect..... or ownership entity any longer.

Back in the "old days" there were fewer opportunities to make big money, be seen on TV and the Coach, GM and Owner's presence was much greater.

If, for example Jerry Buss came out and began making a few well placed comments it may get things going again, but then, even he has little leverage as Howard is a free agent, Kobe is locked in and Pau has no where else to go really....

Pau has the door, there's trades available but we're just loathe to make them in the name of "talent".

I suppose what you're saying is true, but at some point Jerry was going to pass the reins along, so it's not as if this was unavoidable. I know a lot of people would say "Well he could have given it to Jeannie!" but there's no guarantee she'd command any more respect than Jim.

Maybe this was bound to happen and we're just witnessing it at quite possibly the most in opportune moment?

Then again, when Brown was fired Jerry DID come out and say something and when he did most people discounted that too... I don't know what the answer is then Roos.

Just sit back and watch..... it will be painfully entertaining I'm afraid.

Hate to say it but "eras" usually don't end well for sports dynasties and we may be seeing the beginning of an end... the question will be.... how soon can the new era begin and is there anyone here that can bridge that gap? Howard is supposed to be that guy but he seems to not want that responsibility or at the very least isn't accepting it well at the moment.

I think he's just immature and impatient. I know we're all down on him because he has been a princess and he's not producing the way we were expecting.

But we have to remember he's playing at a fraction of his athletic ability. Even if he never jumps as high as he used to, he hasn't had an opportunity to lift and get some strength back that he can rely on even with that injury.

I'm not ready to say he's definitively NOT the bridge, but certainly my confidence has been shaken.

You can't blame the players for lack of effort, when it's clear that they've tuned out the coach. How long is Jimmy going to blame other people before he finally axes the coach?