MWPeace Discussion: Big Apple Bound

Re: MWPeace Discussion: suspended 1 game without pay

Postby lakersin4 on Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:08 am

Ice-Fire wrote:If the Mavericks offer Marion in a trade for Peace then the Lakers should accept it... I wonder if the Lakers & Mavs will discuss the scenario heading into the trade-dead line? I really cannot watch another game from MWP.

Sure, if they include Dirk for Pau.
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Re: MWPeace Discussion: suspended 1 game without pay

Postby bumrusherer on Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:31 am

khmrP wrote:it obviously sounds like most of us are in the "what have you done for me lately" train of thought because yes he did start out the season shooting well. However it is what it is now and thats him HURTING this team with his play, almost on a consistent basis on both sides of the floor and right now we certaintly can't make up for his bad play on a consistent basis either.

The thing is, even when he is making shots, there are so many other areas in the game that he struggles with. Ofcourse a few 3's can erase some of those things but they are still there.

Its tough to get on him though because its not his fault that we have him too long of a contract. We have a habit of giving extended contracts to replaceable players.
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Re: MWPeace Discussion: suspended 1 game without pay

Postby borri on Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:43 am

This is how bad Ron has been going since the new year:

20 GP

2 G where he shot better than 50%
7 G where he shot better than 40% (that includes the 2 games he shot over 50%)
11 G where he shot under 40%.

This road trip, Ron is a blistering 5-29 from 3. Roughly 55% of his shots have come from 3.
Last edited by borri on Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MWPeace Discussion: suspended 1 game without pay

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:45 am

^Wow. It's not like we can move him. We moved Luke but there was a draft pick attached to that trade that gave us Sessions. If we had any draft picks to include with Ron, I'd be shopping him to a lower-tier team for a player that can give us more impact...
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Re: MWPeace Discussion: suspended 1 game without pay

Postby Weezy on Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:53 am

Ron is not tradeable IMO, the only thing you might be able to get for him is a worse player on a worse contract. We're probably better off just taking what we can get from him in games, not for him in a trade. As an expiring maybe you can throw him in with a bigger trade, but he's not one yet.
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Re: MWPeace Discussion: suspended 1 game without pay

Postby KB24 on Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:04 pm

Ron and Kobe are major problems with their lack of spacing.

they have made an absolutely unacceptable 6 of their last 54 threes combined.

Kobe's 1-25 and Ron 5-29...that's just not NBA ready. Either you don't shoot or you make more shots. No excuses.
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Re: MWPeace Discussion: suspended 1 game without pay

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Well, you can double off of Ron right now and collapse the paint without fearing him. Same for Kobe when he settles to shoot from the 3-point line. As much as Dwight is limited offensively & injured, it's easier to collapse in the paint and really make things difficult for Dwight.

I was watching an old YouTube video when Dwight was in Orlando playing against Golden State. The spacing he had to operate was a big difference to what he gets here in L.A. That was a concern of mine with Metta coming into the season was his ability to space the floor.
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Re: MWPeace Discussion: suspended 1 game without pay

Postby The Rock on Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:34 pm

Yet another game where he sits to finish the 4th Quarter and we win the game
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Re: MWPeace Discussion: suspended 1 game without pay

Postby borri on Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:05 pm

KB24 wrote:Ron and Kobe are major problems with their lack of spacing.

they have made an absolutely unacceptable 6 of their last 54 threes combined.

Kobe's 1-25 and Ron 5-29...that's just not NBA ready. Either you don't shoot or you make more shots. No excuses.


Big difference is Kobe's 1-25 spans ELEVEN games. Ron is 5-29 in 5 games. Second, Kobe's shooting isn't even close to being a spacing problem because he's the one drawing the double teams. Ergo, his high assist numbers.

Please don't compare Kobe to Ron. It's disgraceful for Kobe.
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Re: MWPeace Discussion: suspended 1 game without pay

Postby KB24 on Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:58 pm

@borri

It doesn't change the fact that neither is efficient and it gets harder for Nash to get inside by us not stretching it efficiently to the 3 point line. His "shaky" ballhandling and increased TOs arepartly because he is getting harassed and we don't have efficient shooters to make teams pay. Clark is doing a good job but defenders can cheat on Ron easily and Kobe can't compensate right now the lack of shooting.

It helps tremendously to keep the middle of the floor open for Nash/Howard if your wing players are hitting 3s, attempting them isn't enough. There is a reason why Kobe is always getting the ball with his back to the basket from 18 ft. out rather than behind the 3 point line. And no it doesn't matter whether its 5 games or 20 games...its still one of the last 25 and its still unacceptable.

When your 2 and 3 can't hit a 3 to save their lifes, thats always a problem, period.
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Re: MWPeace Discussion: suspended 1 game without pay

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:00 pm

What? Teams are always going to respect Kobe's jumpshot his spacing isn't an issue, no player will ever play off of him unless in a help situation. Ron on the other hand, teams WANT him shooting and he can't make anything. Kobe has just stopped shooting threes because we're better when he plays closer to the basket.

There is a reason why Kobe is always getting the ball with his back to the basket from 18 ft. out rather than behind the 3 point line


Yes that reason is because that's where Kobe is at his most dangerous and where we get our most ball movement. It's not because he can't make a three so D'Antoni decided to stick him in the high post on the wings. We've had a lot more success playing this way than letting Nash run PnR with everyone else spread out. Kobe literally complained about this when we played the Heat last time because he can't just be sitting around the perimeter waiting to catch and shoot while Nash works like a dog to beat traps.
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Re: MWPeace Discussion: suspended 1 game without pay

Postby KB24 on Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:45 pm

It seems to me people don't bother to read properly anymore. Nobody said defenders cheat on Kobe or that Kobe is better getting the ball behind the 3 point line. Please read and then think what probably was the intention before commenting.

My point is the following...we don't have efficient wing shooters and Kobe cannot compensate that for us right now like he could in 5 years ago. Anyone with with an ounce of brain knows that closer to the basket is more efficient, its a basketball rule. I'm not saying move Kobe away but that we cannot capitalize on it without the right shooters.

The Lakers like any other team in the NBA are most efficient when they can break down the defense (again common sense).For that to happen we need to create open lanes for ball handling guards like Kobe or Nash to get inside and then make a decision (finish, pass to big, kick out). We in particular fail at this vs. Miami because they trap the ball handler, front the bigs and do not let ball handlers make efficient entry passes and effectively combat the game plan to get the ball inside to the bigs.

If Kobe would be hitting his 3s, the Lakers could swing the ball and go to the weakside but we cannot because it doesn't work either way. We end up with Kobe in his sweet spot without enough ball movement to let him actually take advantage of it so he ends up shooting tough shots. On the other hand we cannot swing the ball to the other side. The problem isn't that they can't get a shot off, the problem is it isn't going in and it creates the Lakers nemesis...transitions.

The Lakers are 3rd in 3 point attempts and 18th in shooting percentage and the type of offense that we need to run, the coach wants to run requires efficient shooting on the wing. period.

Also this makes only sense of you know that the lack of 3 point shooting causes the Lakers to be 28th in the league in 2 point shooting with only Houston and the Knicks behind us because we aren't getting quality shots closer to the basket while being horrid collectively from outside.

With players like Kobe, Gasol, Howard and Nash its unacceptable to be 28th in 2 point shooting.
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Re: MWPeace Discussion: suspended 1 game without pay

Postby dj vitus on Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:12 pm

Well hopefully Metta got all his misses out of his system and goes bonkers tomorrow.
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Re: MWPeace Discussion: suspended 1 game without pay

Postby The Rock on Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:16 pm

If you haven't noticed the last 3 weeks we're mostly working with Kobe in the post. Kobe is not in Pick & roll situations, not in isolations at the top, not off the ball jumpers or anything in the perimeter, its pretty much low and mid post. WHatever 3 hes taking is like end of the quarter heaves variety or shot clock busters or transition 3s. Hes not getting any looks from 3 in the half court. None. zero. Its not even part of the offensive attack unless its super late in the game and we're trying to come back then its just predictable.
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Re: MWPeace Discussion: suspended 1 game without pay

Postby borri on Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:19 pm

KB24 wrote:It seems to me people don't bother to read properly anymore. Nobody said defenders cheat on Kobe or that Kobe is better getting the ball behind the 3 point line. Please read and then think what probably was the intention before commenting.

My point is the following...we don't have efficient wing shooters and Kobe cannot compensate that for us right now like he could in 5 years ago. Anyone with with an ounce of brain knows that closer to the basket is more efficient, its a basketball rule. I'm not saying move Kobe away but that we cannot capitalize on it without the right shooters.

The Lakers like any other team in the NBA are most efficient when they can break down the defense (again common sense).For that to happen we need to create open lanes for ball handling guards like Kobe or Nash to get inside and then make a decision (finish, pass to big, kick out). We in particular fail at this vs. Miami because they trap the ball handler, front the bigs and do not let ball handlers make efficient entry passes and effectively combat the game plan to get the ball inside to the bigs.

If Kobe would be hitting his 3s, the Lakers could swing the ball and go to the weakside but we cannot because it doesn't work either way. We end up with Kobe in his sweet spot without enough ball movement to let him actually take advantage of it so he ends up shooting tough shots. On the other hand we cannot swing the ball to the other side. The problem isn't that they can't get a shot off, the problem is it isn't going in and it creates the Lakers nemesis...transitions.

The Lakers are 3rd in 3 point attempts and 18th in shooting percentage and the type of offense that we need to run, the coach wants to run requires efficient shooting on the wing. period.

Also this makes only sense of you know that the lack of 3 point shooting causes the Lakers to be 28th in the league in 2 point shooting with only Houston and the Knicks behind us because we aren't getting quality shots closer to the basket while being horrid collectively from outside.

With players like Kobe, Gasol, Howard and Nash its unacceptable to be 28th in 2 point shooting.


You said:

Ron and Kobe are major problems with their lack of spacing.


We say, how is that possible with Kobe? When is Kobe ever left alone and wide open, wherever he is. If Kobe isn't left alone, how can he be a cause of spacing issues?

Spacing = your defender don't give a rat's behind about what you do on offense. They cheat off you to clog the middle.

Since when has that EVER EVER EVER EVER happened to Kobe? Probably his rookie year.....
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Re: MWPeace Discussion: suspended 1 game without pay

Postby KB24 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:40 am

I think you still miss the point.

Kobe is never left alone but thats exactly what makes it so enticing the space the floor. Spacing doesn't mean Kobe gets open looks...it means Kobe forces a defender to leave the comfort zone and come out. Since Kobe isn't incorporating this anymore, its harder for Nash to play P&Rs effectively or for Dwight to post up.

Kobe is inside mostly, so is his defender. Ron's defender cheats on him and is closer to the pain than he should be. Clark isn't exactly a deadeye shooter (even though his percentage is sky high right now) but he isn't going to take 7 and make 4.

The best way to beat a defense is in motion. Your wing players stretch the defense by forcing their defenders to stay with them....then the ball handler to get screens and a lane...the defense has to contract back...and you keep them in motion and then you get plenty of options.

Moral of the story
Kobe is not shooting 3s because he isn't making them. Ron is not making 3s so defenders cheat on him. Both of those defenders are two more bodies you have to sidestep.

All theory aside its very simple. Except for Nash nobody on this team is able to make a 3. Bottom line.
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Re: MWPeace Discussion: suspended 1 game without pay

Postby CaCHooKa Man on Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:08 pm

cant make a shot and cant even play defense anymore. get him out of here.
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Re: MWPeace Discussion: suspended 1 game without pay

Postby borri on Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:09 pm

CaCHooKa Man wrote:cant make a shot and cant even play defense anymore. get him out of here.


If only there was a way. He ain't worth the dirt on my sneakers.
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Re: MWPeace Discussion: suspended 1 game without pay

Postby ElginTheGreat on Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:09 pm

CaCHooKa Man wrote:cant make a shot and cant even play defense anymore. get him out of here.


Basically
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Re: MWPeace Discussion: suspended 1 game without pay

Postby NoHomeOH on Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:10 pm

why does he play so much? Just can't get to seem on any run with him out there. He disrupts the flow and if hes not hitting threes hes useless
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Re: MWPeace Discussion: suspended 1 game without pay

Postby Ice-Fire on Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:10 pm

Trade this garbage crap that is MWP!
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Re: MWPeace Discussion: suspended 1 game without pay

Postby Shadow on Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:11 pm

He's like a mini Chucky Atkins!!
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Re: MWPeace Discussion: suspended 1 game without pay

Postby DHL on Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:11 pm

amnesty
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Re: MWPeace Discussion: suspended 1 game without pay

Postby Weezy on Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:15 pm

I'm done with this guy. Sit him for "conduct detrimental to the team', buy him out, trade him for a 3rd round pick (get it?), pay another team to take him, I don't care. He can't shoot, he single-handedly destroys the offense and confuses everyone/gets everyone scrambling and gets himself in the wrong spot when he gets the ball, and his one useful quality, being able to guard the best SF's in the league, is gone.
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Re: MWPeace Discussion: suspended 1 game without pay

Postby Armani on Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:15 pm

Doesn't fit D'Antoni ball. Trade him.
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