Steve Nash Discussion: Retiring; Lakers Disabled Exception

Re: Steve Nash Discussion: 10k assist club

Postby kblo247 on Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:45 pm

I loved seeing Kobe lite into Nash that third quarter and Dantoni benching him. Nash broke the script that got us the lead when he tried to take back over on the ball, and he got benched. Ball went back in Kobe's hands and everyone ate, everyone was engaged, and they knew what Kobe was doing unlike Steve. Steve has to stay off the ball because he has killed is this year on it by being pressed, trapped, and forcing bailouts or not making timely reads from uncomfortableness with post players that aren't Amare or Gortat style gimmicks
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: 10k assist club

Postby Armani on Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:49 pm

Kobe with his best Nash impersonation tonight.

Nash had some good looks off of Kobe, he shot have just shot some of them.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: 10k assist club

Postby lakersyunowin on Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:51 pm

role reversal.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: 10k assist club

Postby kblo247 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:39 am

I'm not disagreeing Nahs can be damn good. I'm saying

If you start Nash. He needs to be off the ball. He lacks synergy with both Dwight and Pau, Kobe feeds them better. Let Kobe get them going same. Then you have Nash play sniper. Then as the game progresses teams collapse and scramble to help on Kobe and you swing it out to Nash after he's established the shot. Guy runs at him he puts it on the deck and then he takes advantage of his playmaking.

Right now as it has stood this season not only his shot but his ball management have been subpar. He's has tons of trouble managing clock, pnr, and traps, and that has led to him being a large contributor to Kobe bail outs and run outs by other teams as bad long shots and floor spacing lead to long misses. We did not try to integrate the guy back in, we brought him back and tried to integrate everyone around him, unlike Pau for instance and that shows greatly in our record being well under 500 with him. Dantoni and Steve are to blame there because they went nostalgic.

Phil had the right idea, he was going to move him off any way for Kobe we all know it. Kobe was the main facilitator of 7 finals and 5 title teams of course Phil would trust him more to be Pippen and move Nash away from the ball in a secondary role. Jim saw it as did Jerry, and that messed with their Showtime ideology and the fact that they knew it would work and Phil would say see I told you so once again was too much.

It isn't a slight to move Nash off the ball either at his age. Kidd gave up a lot of the ball in the 3 guard sets Dallas ran to win a ring. Payton gave it up in Miami over fighting it so like he did here. Shaw and Harper gave it up for Phil to be in the triangle. It's just how things work and how the pieces fit, cause with or without Phil this is a post up, not smal ball not ssol team. Nahs and Dantoni had to have the flexibility and come to Jesus moment to get it but it is as their way hasn't. Sniffed a finals let alone won.

I truly believe Nash can be effective and offset his weaknesses by moving off the ball. He will still give up points, but him not killing flow with the pressure and traps getting the best of him, and both Pau and Dwight not getting how to be slip screen bigs will help. His shooting will be a great asset and his scoring prowess will balance the floor and help our d even because it leads to less runouts organizing the O thru Kobe. He can be a great reactor or right hook so to speak to Kobe's constant jabbing of the seams if a D and catch teams off balance but he just can't start the attack as it hurts the other guys on the team on both sides the ball putting us being the 8 ball.

Now if Nash isn't comfortable off the ball, you have to bring him off the bench where he can just be the Suns Nash. It's drastic, but the same philosophy applies for Pau with him. If you want him to be able to be himself take him off the starters and let him attack second units where his declining speed and athleticism isn't as glaring.

It's not a Nash is terrible all together thing, its a Nash and the way he was approaching the game and Dantoni was fixated on using him at the expense of this teams makeup is garbage kind of thing. He isn't an all star talent anymore so lets not act like he should be the one who has others adjust to him, he hasn't won before so we can't ask those who have gotten farther than him and all the main cogs including even Dwight have, it's disrespectful to their ego and its just not how to win in this league. You might not like it, in fact I know some hate me saying it because Nash is a good funny guy, but his basketball way has nothing to do with his character. [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] win in this league, even Magic was one and generally the main facilitator of title groups has that in them, and Kobe has that attitude to get on guys, be aggressive, not get flustered completely like Nash was getting, and instill fear which Nash's way has never produced. Fun doesn't win in this league, boots in [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] do, and even the nicest guys, Fisher for example have openly said you have to crack that whip and dictate. Dwight and Pau [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] and complained because they were asked to adjust to Nash, but they won't man up and say that to Kobe or back talk, and they know damn well a foot comes in that [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] if he goes out his way to facilitate in a way both bigs are more used to (Kobe fed Dwight like Hedo used to and Pau like only he and LO can) and they knew they better not sandbag it.

It's just a better strategy and attitude all together, there's accountability, their trust which Dantoni lacks by allowing Kobe to dictate the flow and micromanage possessions and which he will need come the playoffs, and it is a win now scenario for this group as the games matter. You can t wait for guys to simply get Nash. If they couldn't do it in 18 games and all began sniping it shows they just weren't feeling ssol or Nash ball, and its no surprise as they all said Phil and the triple post offense which fit them better the second they were asked. Themselves just the way the ball rolls, and I hope Nash and Dantoni accept it and make the most because it would say more about them to actually adjust their ways after a decade to actually win and maximize the group over the group maximizing them than anyone else.

Unlike many I also don't have a grand stat line in my head. Kobe doesn't need to average 10apg and neither does Nash. We need balance 7, 5, 4, 3, 3, 2 and the like across the board ... The hockey assist way of life as that's what wins in this league not a pg making every play ... That hasn't worked since magic and Isiah. Just do what it takes to win games, and that means Nash off the ball, Kobe initiating and picking his spots, Pau getting some post touches and Dwight being a flash guy with Metta, Meeks, Jamison, and Clark all doing their roles and being held accountable for their roles and minutes. Nash and Pringles get that, they can have my respect. They come out the next game trying to force their way and style, they won't, and I'm going to call em out on it because the ends don't justify the means when you look in the only column that matters wins and losses
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: 10k assist club

Postby Weezy on Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:35 pm

Those shots were clutch. I'd be happy with this guy being the new SG, he's a better shooter than probably every other one in the league. :mhihi:
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: 10k assist club

Postby lakersyunowin on Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:37 pm

steve nash sighting today. i could feel his impact on the game.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: 10k assist club

Postby Finwë on Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:40 pm

Man that shot over Westbrook and then the one-legged runner from mid-range, :man4: :man13: :bow:

The guy is just so much fun to watch
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: 10k assist club

Postby borri on Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:41 pm

Hate to belabor the point but....Nash = PERFECT guard for the TRI.

It's not like we didn't win any CHIPS with Fish as the PG. All he did was shoot open J's.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: 10k assist club

Postby Armani on Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:42 pm

Awesome game, and came through in the clutch. :jam2: :jam2:
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: 10k assist club

Postby Armani on Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:43 pm

borri wrote:Hate to belabor the point but....Nash = PERFECT guard for the TRI.

It's not like we didn't win any CHIPS with Fish as the PG. All he did was shoot open J's.


This. He would do everything Fisher did with MUCH more efficiency and has a much better passing game. So basically all that triangle won't fit Nash stuff was BS.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: 10k assist club

Postby Weezy on Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:46 pm

borri wrote:Hate to belabor the point but....Nash = PERFECT guard for the TRI.

It's not like we didn't win any CHIPS with Fish as the PG. All he did was shoot open J's.


Being 39, it would also save his legs not having to do as much to create shots. The triangle also allows for fast breaks and great passers to still be great passers though, so it's not like it limits guys to one thing and is that rigid. Ugh, what could have been.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: 10k assist club

Postby therealdeal on Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:51 pm

I don't know that anyone said he wouldn't fit, but that he wouldn't be used ideally.

He played very well and really came through late.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: 10k assist club

Postby borri on Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:52 pm

Not too often does a guy shoot that ball and I EXPECT it to go in everytime.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: 10k assist club

Postby kblo247 on Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:02 pm

Past two games I have respect for this guy. H transitioned to off the ball SG like Kidd, Payton, Shaw, and Harper. :jam2:
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: 10k assist club

Postby XXIV on Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:14 pm

borri wrote:Not too often does a guy shoot that ball and I EXPECT it to go in everytime.


I'm of the exact same thought. It's a great feeling knowing you have a shooter like that on your team.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: 10k assist club

Postby kblo247 on Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:43 pm

^^^ I always had that feeling late with Fish or on the road.



Nash: "I could care less (about my assists), at this point in my career I'm going to do anything to win if that means scoring off of Kobe"

Takes a big man to get that he wasn't winning his way and make the change
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: 10k assist club

Postby karacha on Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:01 pm

Nash is a great shooter and he's still so clutch. Always hitting big shots. :bow:
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: 10k assist club

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:58 pm

Steve Nash usually guards his emotions, but this quote is downright warm and fuzzy ...

"It’s definitely exciting because we feel more like a team," Nash said after the OKC win on Sunday. "I think the last two games, it feels familiar. It feels like we’re pulling in the same direction and that’s a beautiful thing when that happens in this game." about 3 hours ago


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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: 10k assist club

Postby Armani on Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:01 am

It's all sunshine and butterflies when we win... keep getting W's and we'll forget they had chemistry problems at all.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: 10k assist club

Postby wcsoldier81 on Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:03 am

Obviously small sample but opponents seem totally lost with Nash playing off the ball ...
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: 10k assist club

Postby Lakers808 on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:33 pm

i like nash looking to score more
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: 10k assist club

Postby Ice-Fire on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:54 pm

He outplayed Westbrook plain and simple, It does not matter how close Westbrook was at a triple-double. Nash totally schooled him.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: 10k assist club

Postby SpencerHarrison on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:57 pm

I had to work for the first half of the game, but even when I watched it I didn't pay much attention to Nash beyond his shooting. I followed the ball -

What did he do in the game without the ball that outplayed Westbrook?
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: 10k assist club

Postby therealdeal on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:01 pm

Nothing really, he was rarely matched up on Russell.

Defensively he guarded Sefolosha and he did a good job there I suppose. Offensively he was guarded by Westbrook and the only parts I remember him schooling Russell would be a tough shot over Russell once and a couple of pump fakes.

I don't think that he outplayed Russell.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: 10k assist club

Postby Ice-Fire on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:08 pm

Do not be fooled by his assist and rebound ratio, he was chucking up shots all game long, kinda reminded me off the 2012 finals when he was ball-hogging.
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