Steve Nash Discussion: Retiring; Lakers Disabled Exception

Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby hollywood swinger on Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:23 pm

LTLakerFan wrote:
hollywood swinger wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
hollywood swinger wrote:
therealdeal wrote:Hindsight is always 20/20.

The initial signing of Steve Nash came off of a season he averaged 15/10 shooting 50/40/90 and missed only 4 games. At the time he was quite obviously still in the top tier of PGs in the league. Then he broke his leg the 2nd game of the season and was not ever the same since. He had a nice stretch until injuring his hamstring/back again.

At no point were any of us wrong who claimed that when we signed Nash he was a top 25 PG still. You were wrong.

Telling history to fit your tale: priceless.

i didn't say any names but are you suggesting you were one of many killing me when i said nash isn't a good enough player to be a starter on this team even when healthy?

If you made that suggestion at the start of the season, then yes probably. If you made that suggestion sometime in the last month, then no probably not.

i made that opinion after he came back from his first injury and sucked & couldn't even deal with ball pressure causing the overload on kobe which he & MDA are responsible for ( 2 phx suns has beens). it wasn't hindsight it was in the moment i said he wasn't gonna deliver. one thing i will admit i am wrong on was thinking we should explore trading D12 i was wrong about that because he has gotten healthier and shown he is the future. Nash on the other hand i was right months ago the guy is shot. i admit when i am wrong others should too.


He has dealt with injuries off and on this year. The first and worst was freak. Where in the hell does that not figure into your performance evaluation?? Younger players don't get injured too? Stephen Curry, Rajon Rondo and pick one or two more young guards hurt this year, saying hello. Guess they suck too. :bang: You give the impression of someone more happy to be right in your head than whether or not it impacts the team in negative way. Props! :disagree:

Yes i like being right like 99.9% of all human beings. the point is when your old you can't recover as fast and the odds of you getting injured again are greater. Look at nash he is now hobbled with something completely different than his early season injuries. Steph curry & rajon rondo don't play for the Lakers so who cares but to bust your point steph is back already and playing at a high high level. Nash is so old we don't even know the origin of his current injuries he is just hurting from and old man hamstring and hip i believe.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby hollywood swinger on Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:28 pm

dj vitus wrote:
hollywood swinger wrote:because he stinks. nash and his klown coach MDA with their garbage phx suns non title glory days empty promises.

Nash shot almost 50% on the year, 44% behind the arc, and 92% from the FT line. He also averaged a full TO less than his normal average for the past 10 years... And he sucks?

yes because nash has missed almost 40 games...... yes 40 games....... thats virtually half the season. like they say the most important part of a players game is being available. if he can't play he is USELESS.
useless = sucks
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby LTLakerFan on Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:01 am

What a cynical outlook as a fan. Derrick Rose sucks too then. He's been cleared. Nash is risking the hammy (not same level of injury granted) to give them what he has. His first game back as mentioned, he hits just a couple more of the looks he got and it would have been a great return. He plays well on Wed and further into the series, let's hope, with the corner you've painted yourself into..... I hope you will be happy about it rather than look for ways to discount it anyways. Whatever.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby therealdeal on Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:22 am

If your assessment of him was that he was a failure when he came back from injury, I would say that's both fair and unfair.

Fair because he wasn't doing very well when he came back (although he became our best shooter). But unfair because injuries dictated his play, not necessarily the fact that he's a bad basketball player now.

You're right, the combination of age/injury hasn't done him any favors this season. And without Kobe, Nash becomes a liability in a lot of ways.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby hollywood swinger on Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:33 am

therealdeal wrote:If your assessment of him was that he was a failure when he came back from injury, I would say that's both fair and unfair.

Fair because he wasn't doing very well when he came back (although he became our best shooter). But unfair because injuries dictated his play, not necessarily the fact that he's a bad basketball player now.

You're right, the combination of age/injury hasn't done him any favors this season. And without Kobe, Nash becomes a liability in a lot of ways.


Why are people taking what i say about nash personal? nash is supposed to be a future HOF'er he should be able to take the heat. Kobe gets slammed all the time for what he does wrong even when it is right. nash should be held to the fire just the same as 24 & pau. people need to admit that the steve nash experiment has been a tremendous failure this season period. he has not delivered whether it's due to injury or being old as dirt or both. I hate to say it if we keep him and depend on him to deliver next year the same thing will happen he will get nagging injuries all year again.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby JGC on Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:03 am

dj vitus wrote:
hollywood swinger wrote:because he stinks. nash and his klown coach MDA with their garbage phx suns non title glory days empty promises.

Nash shot almost 50% on the year, 44% behind the arc, and 92% from the FT line. He also averaged a full TO less than his normal average for the past 10 years... And he sucks?


His shooting has been pretty good, I'll give him that. But let's not give him a pat on the back for the reduced TO shall we? His turnovers are down by about 1, because his assists are down by about 4 or 5, not because he's been taking better care of the ball. In fact, his AST:TO ratio might be one of his worst ever.

As underwhelming as Nash has been, I still can't seem to wrap my head around why he wouldn't still be light years of improvement over Derek Fisher who we had for most of the season last year. (And when I say improvement, I mean, impact to the team). We have Dwight and Nash and Kobe had to arguably work HARDER this year than last year. Makes no sense.

Here's a link to a thread back in January about which point guards one would take over Nash. Having the same discussion just a few months later, would be interesting. Nash is the same point guard in January as he is in April so....

lakers-discussion/dwight-kobe-t136889-150.html?hilit=jrue#p3786526
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby therealdeal on Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:57 am

hollywood swinger wrote:
therealdeal wrote:If your assessment of him was that he was a failure when he came back from injury, I would say that's both fair and unfair.

Fair because he wasn't doing very well when he came back (although he became our best shooter). But unfair because injuries dictated his play, not necessarily the fact that he's a bad basketball player now.

You're right, the combination of age/injury hasn't done him any favors this season. And without Kobe, Nash becomes a liability in a lot of ways.


Why are people taking what i say about nash personal? nash is supposed to be a future HOF'er he should be able to take the heat. Kobe gets slammed all the time for what he does wrong even when it is right. nash should be held to the fire just the same as 24 & pau. people need to admit that the steve nash experiment has been a tremendous failure this season period. he has not delivered whether it's due to injury or being old as dirt or both. I hate to say it if we keep him and depend on him to deliver next year the same thing will happen he will get nagging injuries all year again.

Because you're bagging on a guy that's had probably the worst luck of his career. People will naturally defend him. I tend to agree with your assessment.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby LTLakerFan on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:47 am

JGC wrote:
dj vitus wrote:
hollywood swinger wrote:because he stinks. nash and his klown coach MDA with their garbage phx suns non title glory days empty promises.

Nash shot almost 50% on the year, 44% behind the arc, and 92% from the FT line. He also averaged a full TO less than his normal average for the past 10 years... And he sucks?


His shooting has been pretty good, I'll give him that. But let's not give him a pat on the back for the reduced TO shall we? His turnovers are down by about 1, because his assists are down by about 4 or 5, not because he's been taking better care of the ball. In fact, his AST:TO ratio might be one of his worst ever.

As underwhelming as Nash has been, I still can't seem to wrap my head around why he wouldn't still be light years of improvement over Derek Fisher who we had for most of the season last year. (And when I say improvement, I mean, impact to the team). We have Dwight and Nash and Kobe had to arguably work HARDER this year than last year. Makes no sense.

Here's a link to a thread back in January about which point guards one would take over Nash. Having the same discussion just a few months later, would be interesting. Nash is the same point guard in January as he is in April so....

lakers-discussion/dwight-kobe-t136889-150.html?hilit=jrue#p3786526


WTH?? Wat? Here....I bet you never thought of this.....let me help then in the friendly spirit of CL. He has been..... wait for it.... HURT most of the season. With guys like he's never played with before who don't move much or shoot well.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby JGC on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:14 am

LTLakerFan wrote:
JGC wrote:
dj vitus wrote:
hollywood swinger wrote:because he stinks. nash and his klown coach MDA with their garbage phx suns non title glory days empty promises.

Nash shot almost 50% on the year, 44% behind the arc, and 92% from the FT line. He also averaged a full TO less than his normal average for the past 10 years... And he sucks?


His shooting has been pretty good, I'll give him that. But let's not give him a pat on the back for the reduced TO shall we? His turnovers are down by about 1, because his assists are down by about 4 or 5, not because he's been taking better care of the ball. In fact, his AST:TO ratio might be one of his worst ever.

As underwhelming as Nash has been, I still can't seem to wrap my head around why he wouldn't still be light years of improvement over Derek Fisher who we had for most of the season last year. (And when I say improvement, I mean, impact to the team). We have Dwight and Nash and Kobe had to arguably work HARDER this year than last year. Makes no sense.

Here's a link to a thread back in January about which point guards one would take over Nash. Having the same discussion just a few months later, would be interesting. Nash is the same point guard in January as he is in April so....

lakers-discussion/dwight-kobe-t136889-150.html?hilit=jrue#p3786526


WTH?? Wat? Here....I bet you never thought of this.....let me help then in the friendly spirit of CL. He has been..... wait for it.... HURT most of the season. With guys like he's never played with before who don't move much or shoot well.


Shouldn't a hurt Steve Nash still make the team better than a Derek Fisher?

I mean, are you really saying he's played as good as you expected him to play, given the circumstances?
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby The Rock on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:19 am

Steve Nash has been hurt for most of the season but when he was healthy was great, he had a part in the 28-12 run we had to finish the season

After All star game he averaged 14 points, 3 rebs, 5.6 assists 48% FG, 49% 3s. He was extremely productive in the 30 minutes a game he played. Hes struggling with the same thing Bynum did...his availability due to injuries and his ability to play through it. Obviously Nash is much older and has a lot of mileage but one injury after messed it all up

Its the same theme all year if not one injury its another...we see Jamison struggling with his wrist injury now, Clark hasn't been the same since he had a foot injury midway through March.

This team had championship potential, damn injuries screwed it all up, I have no doubt about it. We were finishing strong in late March/early April when we had most of our core available including The Big 4
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby LTLakerFan on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:47 am

JGC wrote:
LTLakerFan wrote:
JGC wrote:
dj vitus wrote:
hollywood swinger wrote:because he stinks. nash and his klown coach MDA with their garbage phx suns non title glory days empty promises.

Nash shot almost 50% on the year, 44% behind the arc, and 92% from the FT line. He also averaged a full TO less than his normal average for the past 10 years... And he sucks?


His shooting has been pretty good, I'll give him that. But let's not give him a pat on the back for the reduced TO shall we? His turnovers are down by about 1, because his assists are down by about 4 or 5, not because he's been taking better care of the ball. In fact, his AST:TO ratio might be one of his worst ever.

As underwhelming as Nash has been, I still can't seem to wrap my head around why he wouldn't still be light years of improvement over Derek Fisher who we had for most of the season last year. (And when I say improvement, I mean, impact to the team). We have Dwight and Nash and Kobe had to arguably work HARDER this year than last year. Makes no sense.

Here's a link to a thread back in January about which point guards one would take over Nash. Having the same discussion just a few months later, would be interesting. Nash is the same point guard in January as he is in April so....

lakers-discussion/dwight-kobe-t136889-150.html?hilit=jrue#p3786526


WTH?? Wat? Here....I bet you never thought of this.....let me help then in the friendly spirit of CL. He has been..... wait for it.... HURT most of the season. With guys like he's never played with before who don't move much or shoot well.


Shouldn't a hurt Steve Nash still make the team better than a Derek Fisher?

I mean, are you really saying he's played as good as you expected him to play, given the circumstances?


Look to me none of these guys look like they're running around in pain. Very few ever show it. So it just looks like there's this big drop in mobility, not hitting shots and just not as good any more. But 99.9% of the players in the league don't perform well when injured especially with the lower extremeties. Kobe Bryant is from another planet and we have been blessed to have that unbelievable expectation set all these years for us. He is the one guy that will still drop 30-40 on you when injured. Nothing short of beyond amazing!

Is Nash playing as good as I expected him to play, given the circumstances? Knowing he's probably 70% of where he normally is, if that, like Dwight early, and that this is the most effed up offense with wrong players for how he has always played.....Yes. It simply has to be taken into consideration. ONLY 1 KOBE.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby pound4pound1 on Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:09 pm

what are the chances Nash get's amnestied?
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby Chillbongo on Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:37 pm

Isn't there some rule that you can't amnesty someone that's been with you for 1 year or something?

edit: they had to be signed prior to the 2011-12 season. So I guess it's not happening. Trade or retire it is.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby XXIV on Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:32 pm

You can only amnesty someone you had on your roster at the time the new CBA was implemented.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby thisbjgz on Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:47 pm

While Nash hasn't performed at his regular Nash standards...some of you who are too spoiled. Having Nash on the team is huge, he was a key part of that run while he was healthy, and to say you guys want to amnesty him, wait til we have another "PG" like a Ramon Sessions until you guys will realize Nash is still great despite I would say about 70-80% all season.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby dj vitus on Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:34 pm

JGC wrote:
dj vitus wrote:
hollywood swinger wrote:because he stinks. nash and his klown coach MDA with their garbage phx suns non title glory days empty promises.

Nash shot almost 50% on the year, 44% behind the arc, and 92% from the FT line. He also averaged a full TO less than his normal average for the past 10 years... And he sucks?


His shooting has been pretty good, I'll give him that. But let's not give him a pat on the back for the reduced TO shall we? His turnovers are down by about 1, because his assists are down by about 4 or 5, not because he's been taking better care of the ball. In fact, his AST:TO ratio might be one of his worst ever.

Oh yah, you are right his assists and ast:to ratio are both down, though I would blame it more on the style of offense we run than on him actually "sucking."

As for Kobe having to play harder, it makes perfect sense. New players, new coaches, new systems, Gasol declining, and a mess of injuries are to blame. But we still went an incredible 28 and 12 to end the season. 70% win percentage compared to 62% overall last year.

As for which PGs you'd like to have over Nash, I agree with most of that list. I really do. But not everybody is demanding a trade to the Lakers, so it's largely unrealistic.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby lakersyunowin on Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:51 pm

thisbjgz wrote:While Nash hasn't performed at his regular Nash standards...some of you who are too spoiled. Having Nash on the team is huge, he was a key part of that run while he was healthy, and to say you guys want to amnesty him, wait til we have another "PG" like a Ramon Sessions until you guys will realize Nash is still great despite I would say about 70-80% all season.

i dunno...i'd have to think long and hard about taking a decent young pg that plays 82 games over a great but over the hill and injury prone pg that only plays 49.

his back has always been a concern, and now you're hearing about nerve damage and multiple epidurals...the man will be 40 soon. i think people should try to separate the romanticized image of the nash of yesteryear and see what we have right now.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby Doc Brown on Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:12 pm

^^^Agreed. Everyone knows he has had the back problems, but the nerve damage to the leg (with the fracture) and the nerve damage to his back/hip/leg should be a lot more concerning to everyone.

You don't just get rid of nerve pain and if he's just now starting to get it and needs 2 epidurals (which is a red flag in itself), it's concerning to think about next season or the one after that.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:46 pm

lakersyunowin wrote:i think people should try to separate the romanticized image of the nash of yesteryear and see what we have right now.


This statement can be applied to both Pau, MWP and even Kobe as well.... The games that made the names no longer exist.... Coaches and schemes can't turn back time.....

A good to great bench can help but we're so far from that it's not funny......
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby hollywood swinger on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:22 pm

Image
=
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Last edited by hollywood swinger on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby dj vitus on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:40 pm

Our bench was exposed in large part because of all our injures. I still think it is pretty decent with Blake, Clark, Jamison, and Jordan Hill.

A dedicated 2/3 backup would be nice--if only Meeks can hit his shots.

That said, if we can stay relatively healthy and develop more chemistry, we can definitely be contenders next year.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby dj vitus on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:43 pm

hollywood swinger wrote:Image

If Nash's injuries are a concern, then maybe we can get anther starting PG. But who can we realistically get that can shoot and play defense at a high rate and not brick layups?
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby The Rock on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:55 pm

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/9200856/2013-nba-playoffs-steve-nash-los-angeles-lakers-plans-play-game-2

However, the 39-year-old -- who has two years and $19.5 million remaining on his contract -- said retiring has not crossed his mind.

"Not even close," Nash said. "When I was healthy this year, I felt really good. I think still, for the amount of opportunities I got on this team, I think still I was just as efficient as I've always been."

Indeed, Nash narrowly missed the fifth 50-40-90 season of his career, shooting 49.7 percent from the field, 43.8 percent on 3-pointers and 92.2 percent from the foul line during the regular season.

Nash believes the Lakers still have a chance to beat the Spurs, despite their 0-1 series deficit, and wants to contribute to overcoming the challenge.

"I love to play and I love this team," Nash said. "I want to fight for these guys and be a part of this team having some happy times. We've had a lot of down days and we've stuck with it. . . . We've had a lot of ups and downs and a lot of tough nights, so I want to turn that around and be a part of helping these guys enjoy this."


Well he wont be walking away from all that money soo either we need to find another PG who can reduce his minutes and have him play maybe only 60 gms or we need to trade him. He cant get thru an 82 game season again + playoffs. Fat chance
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby hollywood swinger on Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:00 am

LTLakerFan wrote:What a
cynical outlook
as a fan.
Derrick Rose sucks too then
. He's been cleared. Nash is risking the hammy (not same level of injury granted) to give them what he has. His first game back as mentioned, he hits just a couple more of the looks he got and it would have been a great return. He plays well on Wed and further into the series, let's hope, with
the corner you've painted yourself into
..... I hope you will be happy about it rather than look for ways to discount it anyways. Whatever.


i am not cynical i am a realist. Nash is what he is and thats done & not primetime anymore. Also pleeeeeeeeeeeeese don't ever mention steve freaking nash in the same sentence as D. Rose a "true beast" of a pg. i didn't paint myself into a corner nash did that to himself when he wanted and asked for a 3 year deal. no way in hell that grandpa can last 3 more seasons in this league. he shoulda just retired and went and babysat his kids since that was his main focus.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: ugh

Postby XXIV on Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:08 am

dj vitus wrote:Our bench was exposed in large part because of all our injures. I still think it is pretty decent with Blake, Clark, Jamison, and Jordan Hill.

A dedicated 2/3 backup would be nice--if only Meeks can hit his shots.

That said, if we can stay relatively healthy and develop more chemistry, we can definitely be contenders next year.


Staying healthy is a big if, but I still feel we need more help off the bench. I feel someone in the mold of a Jamal Crawford is needed.
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