Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Re: Steve Nash Discussion: downright Nashty

Postby Chillbongo on Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:10 pm

borri wrote:
Chillbongo wrote:Nash should've orchestrated the O more.

As I alluded to in WMC, thought Kobe came out with his individual game mentality from the get go.

We needed him for sure, but he was really forcing it (and making) but that makes guys less engaged in the game, esp. on D.


No. Nash DID orchestrate the O. The recipients, Pau and D12 went 3-18.

What Nash did wrong was not shoot more.


Yes, the bigs sucked. Not talking about that.

Talking about Nash bringing it up trying to run a set. Philly's defense cuts off our options and he gets it to Kobe on the wing with like 10-15 seconds left on the clock. Kobe takes impossible shot. Shot goes in. Teammates feel crappier about selves. No energy. No D.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: downright Nashty

Postby borri on Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:33 pm

^^^

Problem is, what Nash does really really well....the PnR just isn't working. Pau is too slow, weak and passive. D12 can't shoot, so teams cheat on the roll.

That's what happened last night. Nash TRIED. It didn't work. The old saying about going to a dry well applies here.

What Nash should have done was realize this sooner and get his own. If Nash was more aggressive getting his own, we win this game.

If you want to blame someone, blame the FO for hiring Antoni. Personnel doesn't match system. Simple as that. The only ones comfortable in this system is Nash and Kobe.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: downright Nashty

Postby Armani on Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:11 pm

Nash is fine. He still runs the O like a Hall of Fame PG. He doesn't need to shoot more... last night was a fluke night, we won't be shooting at 15% from 3's for a while again.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: downright Nashty

Postby Doc Brown on Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:25 pm

Glad to see we have another, "Floor Slippinz", on our team. :man10:
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: downright Nashty

Postby DarthRekal on Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:52 am

"Rorshach" will play big tonight .. watch! :bow:
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: downright Nashty

Postby borri on Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:41 pm

DarthRekal wrote:"Rorshach" will play big tonight .. watch! :bow:


LOL....I do see the resemblance!
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: downright Nashty

Postby Chillbongo on Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:59 pm

borri wrote:^^^

Problem is, what Nash does really really well....the PnR just isn't working. Pau is too slow, weak and passive. D12 can't shoot, so teams cheat on the roll.

That's what happened last night. Nash TRIED. It didn't work. The old saying about going to a dry well applies here.

What Nash should have done was realize this sooner and get his own. If Nash was more aggressive getting his own, we win this game.

If you want to blame someone, blame the FO for hiring Antoni. Personnel doesn't match system. Simple as that. The only ones comfortable in this system is Nash and Kobe.


Fair enough. But the one thing I don't like is him handing the ball over the instant Kobe calls for it. I loved Fisher because he would always try to initiate the offense & keep the ball moving.

Nash >>>> Fisher and he's playing the "subordinate" role to Kobe IMO. I would love to see him use his knowledge of bball to make plays instead of dishing to Kobe when our PnR's aren't working.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: downright Nashty

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:44 pm

3-4 FG tonight

3-4 3 pt FG

Unacceptable really, the reason we were supposed to be so dangerous in crunch time was because we had both these guys that were super clutch. He spends way too much time trying to get Kobe the ball instead of looking for his own.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: downright Nashty

Postby Helljumper on Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:00 am

It seems like a lot of you had some unrealistic expectations if you're upset with Nash for not looking more for his own shot offensively. He averaged 12 ppg last year with Gortat as his second best player. Why would anyone expect him to be MORE aggressive offensively now?

He's doing fine.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: downright Nashty

Postby DHL on Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Helljumper wrote:It seems like a lot of you had some unrealistic expectations if you're upset with Nash for not looking more for his own shot offensively. He averaged 12 ppg last year with Gortat as his second best player. Why would anyone expect him to be MORE aggressive offensively now?

He's doing fine.

Agree. People forget we had MORRIS/DUHON running this team.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: downright Nashty

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:06 am

Helljumper wrote:It seems like a lot of you had some unrealistic expectations if you're upset with Nash for not looking more for his own shot offensively. He averaged 12 ppg last year with Gortat as his second best player. Why would anyone expect him to be MORE aggressive offensively now?

He's doing fine.


There's a certain limit. He really blew the last play imo when he spent the entire clock trying to get Kobe the ball instead of either getting his own shot or finding a better one. Instead we got a 28 foot chuck from Kobe with 2 seconds on the shot clock. If we got something better on that play we may have had a chance to win the game. I just don't like seeing the same predictable offense being ran down the stretch when we have a guy like Nash on the team. Defeats the purpose of having him.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: downright Nashty

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:11 am

I agree with JMSSack ... the underutilization of Nash especially down the stretch is frustrating...

It works against GS (even though still underutilized in this game) and NY ... then we went away from it against Phily and tonight .

Why not a Nash/Kobe PNR down the stretch ? It would be unstoppable
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: downright Nashty

Postby Armani on Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:14 am

wcsoldier81 wrote:I agree with JMSSack ... the underutilization of Nash especially down the stretch is frustrating...

It works against GS (even though still underutilized in this game) and NY ... then we went away from it against Phily and tonight .

Why not a Nash/Kobe PNR down the stretch ? It would be unstoppable



Down the stretch, I agree. It might be a coaching thing... does MDA think that hero ball down the stretch is more efficient than the team ball that Nash had been playing all game? Or does Nash think so? Either way, that Kobe closer mentality is stuck in their heads.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: downright Nashty

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:19 am

Nash is clever enough to be aware of the team needs on a game to game basis ... tonight there wasn't a 3rd scorer ... Pau (as usual) and Metta were ghosts , I want him to be that third scorer in this situation ... 4 shots is fine if "everybody" is hitting shots ... but tonight ? 4 shots is unacceptable
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: downright Nashty

Postby Helljumper on Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:22 am

Late in the game, when you need a score, you should go to the player/positions on the court that have been most effective throughout the game. All game long, that was Kobe ISO. I'm sure Nash recognized that.

That's not even considering that Nash was having trouble even getting into a position to potentially create a good shot while being guarded by the likes of Paul and Bledsoe. PLUS, the Clippers were often trapping/double-teaming him and trying to get the ball out of his hands.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: downright Nashty

Postby dwighthowardsdad on Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:24 am

wcsoldier81 wrote:Nash is clever enough to be aware of the team needs on a game to game basis ... tonight there wasn't a 3rd scorer ... Pau (as usual) and Metta were ghosts , I want him to be that third scorer in this situation ... 4 shots is fine if "everybody" is hitting shots ... but tonight ? 4 shots is unacceptable


Agreed.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: downright Nashty

Postby King of Clutch on Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:29 am

nash, you've been a great pg so far, but you're not a great pg, you're one of the best point guards to ever play the game of basketball. Start acting like it!!! I have no problem with putting kobe on a wing if YOU can't get anyone else a wide open shot. Kobe down the stretch should be a luxury, not an everyday necessity. I guess this may be part of the reasons why nash has never been to the nba finals. He needs to better understand what needs to be done to win. And down the stretch, even though kobe only truly missed one crucial shot, that was the most important one of the game. And you should have realized that, and at least TRIED to get someone a wide open shot. You're putting up great stats, but in stretches you're being fisher 4.0. Be STEVE NASH!
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: downright Nashty

Postby Frank Dux on Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:33 am

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:3-4 FG tonight

3-4 3 pt FG

Unacceptable really, the reason we were supposed to be so dangerous in crunch time was because we had both these guys that were super clutch. He spends way too much time trying to get Kobe the ball instead of looking for his own.



Yeah that ugly sequence late in the game where he failed to initiate the offense, dumping the ball to Bryant who was in bad position at the time, who also proceeded to give the ball back to Nash, still nothing. Dumps ball back to Bryant for a contested fadeaway 3 late in the shot clock.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: downright Nashty

Postby Finwë on Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:47 am

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:
Helljumper wrote:It seems like a lot of you had some unrealistic expectations if you're upset with Nash for not looking more for his own shot offensively. He averaged 12 ppg last year with Gortat as his second best player. Why would anyone expect him to be MORE aggressive offensively now?

He's doing fine.


There's a certain limit. He really blew the last play imo when he spent the entire clock trying to get Kobe the ball instead of either getting his own shot or finding a better one. Instead we got a 28 foot chuck from Kobe with 2 seconds on the shot clock. If we got something better on that play we may have had a chance to win the game. I just don't like seeing the same predictable offense being ran down the stretch when we have a guy like Nash on the team. Defeats the purpose of having him.

This.
MDA should've drawn a play for that last couple of sequences, and Nash should've definitely tried to get something going that wasn't dumping it to Kobe with 4 seconds left 30 feet from the basket.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: downright Nashty

Postby Finwë on Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:48 am

wcsoldier81 wrote:Nash is clever enough to be aware of the team needs on a game to game basis ... tonight there wasn't a 3rd scorer ... Pau (as usual) and Metta were ghosts , I want him to be that third scorer in this situation ... 4 shots is fine if "everybody" is hitting shots ... but tonight ? 4 shots is unacceptable

This too. He was too passive tonight.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: downright Nashty

Postby Ariza3 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:24 am

i think he tried pnr with pau and was gunna create something in the lane but pau didnt do anything after setting the screen. he didnt roll he stayed out and the double off pau came at nash and he had to dump it back to kobe.

pau i feel screwed any offensive sequence if there is one. god pau cant do anything right. he cant defend. he cant score. he cant rebound. he cant do anything aggressive. he cant set strong screens worth setting. he cant roll hard to the rim.

i wonder why hes playing basketball right now bc it seems like he doesnt want to anymore honestly. theres way older guys in the league doing more physically than him. hes has no excuse...a foot injury doesnt excuse what hes doing or not doing
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: downright Nashty

Postby MC on Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:38 am

Nash is not the issue here nor is the ISOs....

the issue is a total lack of player and ball movement...... which than forces you to the ISO game.

combine that with a team that is not built to shoot perimeter jumpers and you have the making of coach that can't win at a high enough clip with this particular roster.

Where is the weak side screens and player movement? cuts to the hoop? why are guys standing completely still behind the 3 point line while the Lakers play 2 man ball? Why is it the shots are created when we have 4 guys standing below the Free throw line or moving hard towards the hoop? that makes for a lot of unbalanced situations floor spacing wise for your opponents transition offense to take advantage of, especially when jumpers are the result of the action..... Why do we not get guys other than Howard touches on the post a little bit? we actually have 3 guys that can operate from there....... I can go on and on about the whys

This worked in Pheonix because they had shooters to compensate for MDAs gibberish offense that hit shots just standing still.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: downright Nashty

Postby 432J on Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:49 am

MUST

SHOOT

MORE
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: downright Nashty

Postby JGC on Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:54 am

Yeah I'm not sure why Nash defers so much to Kobe at times. That last play, anyone could have done that. Fisher did that for years. The whole point of Nash is that he is supposed to help us find that secondary or tertiary option if, in a situation like that, Kobe is not available.

I was and am all for letting Kobe close out games in the final minute or two of a close game. But there's a difference between getting Kobe the ball and clearing things out and letting him go 1 on 1, and getting Kobe the ball in a desperate panic while he is guarded by two defenders 7 feet from the 3pt line.

Nash's existence is to find the BEST option for a scoring opportunity which in many cases will be Kobe, but it's not ALWAYS Kobe.

I am glad though, that these critiques of Nash's game can be reasonably had without people defensively proclaiming how Nash didn't single-handedly lose the game or how him not shooting more causes losses.
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Re: Steve Nash Discussion: downright Nashty

Postby Ariza3 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:27 pm

54/42/100

nash is doing what hes done his whole career (shot # wise) but i think he should think to shoot more with the players around him. hes gunna have a lot of open jumpers if he looks for them but he doesnt. 4 shots last night and 3 FT's but i think he should shoot maybe somewhere between 8 to 10 shots per game. he doesnt want to force anything and playing smart by how hes defended but he should look to attack more and make the D react to him..not the other way around.

He'd said hed "absolutely" be open to shooting more.

but nash isnt the guy on the team that i should worry about being aggressive or hitting shots
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