Steve Nash Discussion: Retiring; Lakers Disabled Exception

Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby XXIV on Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:40 pm

It surprises me that he still wants to come back. It's become very clear since he's got here that his body is falling apart and he can no longer handle the physical toll the NBA season puts on the human body.

Just imagine that $9 million we would be paying him next season could instead be used to sign Stevenson.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby 432J on Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:52 pm

yeah he's clearly trying to screw the lakers over

it's so obvious. he hates this team
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby denimPortugal on Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:02 pm

:mad1: :mad1:
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby Chillbongo on Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:23 pm

Yeah the Lakers FO botched this up real bad. I remember even when the deal went down I questioned the number of 1st round picks, the amount of salary, and the 3 years guaranteed.

Given that we had just got Dwight added Nash to the mix it looked like we were going to be instant contenders so all those worries went out the window. We then literally experienced the worst case scenario.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby angrypuppy on Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:05 pm

I understood the deal when it went down, and I endorsed it. Nash is (or more accurately, was) a remarkable player, and yes three years was definitely one year too many... but if that's what it took to get the deal done, then so be it. We realistically had a two year window and as we now all realize, those windows of championship opportunity are fleeting. I don't blame the front office at all for the structure of the deal.

What I do blame the front office for is losing Dwight Howard for nada. That was the most inept sales pitch in the history of mankind; hell it was suicidal. Howard didn't like Kobe, definitely hated MDA and by all appearances may have liked Nash the least of all three. And yet all three were the ones who made the pitch to Howard in the sales presentation last offseason. Why am I mentioning this now? Because those first round picks for Nash would have looked like a relatively trivial cost had we re-signed Dwight or even traded him. Losing Dwight made the Nash trade worse by at least one order of magnitude.

I also blame the front office for not having the cojones to talk to Nash about retirement or medical retirement prior to that 10th game. That was stupid, but hey... it isn't my money nor my cap space. That's on the front office.

It's like Kobe's contract: It is up to the front office to defend the Lakers interests, and it is up to the players to pursue their own interests. Kobe wants to be paid an astronomical figure ASAP, and Nash wants to believe he can play this year and next. It is up to the front office to communicate and negotiate according the the team's best interests, and within that capacity they have failed.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby XXIV on Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:26 pm

Chillbongo wrote:Yeah the Lakers FO botched this up real bad. I remember even when the deal went down I questioned the number of 1st round picks, the amount of salary, and the 3 years guaranteed.

Given that we had just got Dwight added Nash to the mix it looked like we were going to be instant contenders so all those worries went out the window. We then literally experienced the worst case scenario.


Yeah the 3 years was what worried me the most but I figured we would win at least one title within that span of time, so I didn't focus too much on it.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby Rooscooter on Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:58 pm

Nash needs to hang it up.... Plain and simple.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby TheOp on Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:39 pm

You guys are kidding yourselves with this conspiracy theory bs. Nash didnt come here to screw us over. Realistically the team sucking bad this year only helps us in the long run. We werent going anywhere with our roster.

Once we get that number 1 pick you guys will be singing a different tune.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby Doc Brown on Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:07 pm

TheOp wrote:You guys are kidding yourselves with this conspiracy theory bs. Nash didnt come here to screw us over. Realistically the team sucking bad this year only helps us in the long run. We werent going anywhere with our roster.

Once we get that number 1 pick you guys will be singing a different tune.


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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby charvin on Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:19 pm

Doc Brown wrote:
TheOp wrote:You guys are kidding yourselves with this conspiracy theory bs. Nash didnt come here to screw us over. Realistically the team sucking bad this year only helps us in the long run. We werent going anywhere with our roster.

Once we get that number 1 pick you guys will be singing a different tune.


:man3:


Better ask him for real lottery numbers, he's got a crystal ball and it says here that the Lakers will get the #1 pick :man10:
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby therealdeal on Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:38 am

I don't think Nash intended to screw us from the outset or anything...

But it's clear he doesn't care about the future of the team. It's clear that he's been extremely selfish. And it's clear that he's completely and utterly delusional about his future as an NBA player.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:59 am

His condition is chronic..... It will not get better without low success rate surgery and even then the fix wouldn't stand up to the rigors of the league.

He's either hanging out hoping for a miracle or just cashing checks. Based on his feisty past I'd believe the former, but at some point I'll believe the latter.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby charvin on Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:13 pm

Rooscooter wrote:His condition is chronic..... It will not get better without low success rate surgery and even then the fix wouldn't stand up to the rigors of the league.

He's either hanging out hoping for a miracle or just cashing checks. Based on his feisty past I'd believe the former, but at some point I'll believe the latter.


Well, if it's the nerves that are the problem, wouldn't any treatment be of no help at this point?
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby karacha on Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:48 pm

Nothing will help; he's 40 years old, will be 41 next year. Even if he did not have any medical issues, he is still too old to withstand the rigors of the game. That's reality and there's no shame in it.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby Vasashi17 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:00 pm

There was a gust of certainty Monday, a rarity in one of the most uneasy seasons in Lakers history.

Steve Nash clearly wants to return next season.

"I want to come back for sure," he said Monday.

It's a longshot he'll even be back this season from recurring back soreness, but he's already looking to the future, where he's scheduled to earn $9.7 million in 2014-15 as the final part of a three-year, $28-million contract.

The Lakers have until Sept. 1 to determine whether they want to waive Nash via the "stretch provision," in which his salary is spread out over the next three years. Or they can bring him back for one more season and try to play him while paying him.

There's also a small chance Nash obtains a medical retirement from the NBA during the off-season, in which case the Lakers still have to pay him but his salary does not count toward the cap.

Nash has recurring nerve damage in his back that sidelined him almost three months earlier this season. The nerve irritation starts in the back and presents itself in his hamstrings, making it feel as if they're strained or pulled.

Nash, who turned 40 on Feb. 7, was enlightened when he had 19 points and five assists against Philadelphia on his birthday.

But he's averaging only 7.6 points and 4.7 assists in 10 games.

"When you look at an 18-year career, and like, one game against Philly?" he said. "But it meant so much to me just to say, 'OK, I showed I can do it still. Can I sustain it?' And I haven't been able to prove that yet.

"On one hand, it was extremely rewarding because it was [after] 10 months of pounding my head against the wall…. But then on the other hand, it was frustrating because it was right there and you take a knee on that old fracture and nerve root… it shows how tenuous it all is."

Nash reinjured his back in the Lakers' next game after Philadelphia. He played one more game after that but left at halftime and hasn't returned since then.

He did some light shooting the last few days but ruled out practicing with the team this week.

If he returned this season, he didn't mind being a backup, he said. Kendall Marshall and Jordan Farmar have split time at point guard in recent games.

"I'm totally up for whatever they want to do," Nash said.

per LA Times
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby therealdeal on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:04 pm

:man10: :man10: :man10:

"I'm totally up for whatever they want to do," Nash said.


:man10:
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby karacha on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:13 pm

I'm totally up for taking my money, and if you want me to practice 1 hour a day and rehab... that's fine too.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby khmrP on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:15 pm

this whole Nash fiasco wouldn't have been as bad if it was merely 1 1st and the 2nd but dam 2 1st for a 38yr old PG was sort ridiculous. That was sign of him being selfish to begin with, fact is the other two team that was offering him that type of money was Tor/NY, Tor wasn't gona be good in general, NY I could see the appeal playing with Melo at the time but jeez we not only gave him a chance to compete but he also got to be close to his family. Did we really need to over compensate him as well and pay Pho at the same time?
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby therealdeal on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:23 pm

khmrP wrote:this whole Nash fiasco wouldn't have been as bad if it was merely 1 1st and the 2nd but dam 2 1st for a 38yr old PG was sort ridiculous. That was sign of him being selfish to begin with, fact is the other two team that was offering him that type of money was Tor/NY, Tor wasn't gona be good in general, NY I could see the appeal playing with Melo at the time but jeez we not only gave him a chance to compete but he also got to be close to his family. Did we really need to over compensate him as well and pay Pho at the same time?

That's not really his fault though. That's on Mitch for how he constructed the deal. I think he got ahead of himself and mortgaged too much of the future for Nash.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby Vasashi17 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:35 pm

The blurb about the Lakers possibly getting a medical retirement for Nash this offseason makes me wonder if there is a way that the Lakers can circumvent the rules. Here is what Coon's CBA FAQ states:

Any money paid to a player is included in team salary, even if the player is no longer playing or has retired.

There is one exception whereby a player can continue to receive his salary, but the salary is excluded from team salary. This is when a player suffers a career-ending injury or illness. The team must waive the player, and can apply for this salary exclusion following a waiting period. Only the player's team at the time the injury or illness was discovered (or reasonably should have been discovered) can apply for this salary exclusion.

The waiting period depends on the number games in which the player played in the season:1

If the player played 10 or more games in a season, the team can apply on the one-year anniversary of the player's last game.
If the player played fewer than 10 in a season, the team can apply 60 days after his last game, or the one-year anniversary of his last game in the previous season, whichever is later.
The determination as to whether an injury or illness is career ending is made by a physician jointly selected by the league and players association. The determination is based on whether the injury or illness will prevent the player from playing for the remainder of his career, or if it is severe enough that continuing to play constitutes a medically unacceptable risk.

If the injury exclusion is granted, the player's salary is removed from the team salary immediately.

If the player later "proves the doctors wrong" and resumes his career, then his salary is returned to the team salary when he plays in his 25th game1 in any one season, for any team. This allows a player to attempt to resume his career without affecting his previous team unless his comeback is ultimately successful. If the 25th game was a playoff game, then the player's salary is returned to the cap effective on the date of the team's last regular season game (i.e., the returned salary counts toward the luxury tax).

There are a few additional nuances to the salary exclusion:

If the player resumes his career and his salary is returned to the team salary, the team can re-apply for the salary exclusion under the same rules (including the rules for the waiting period).
If a player retires, even for medical reasons, his team does not receive a salary cap exception to acquire a replacement player.
A team cannot apply for this salary exclusion if they have applied for a Disabled Player exception (see question number 25) that season, whether the exception was granted or not.
If this salary exclusion is granted, the team cannot re-sign or re-acquire the player at any time.
This salary exclusion can be used when a player dies while under contract.
1 They count only regular season and playoff games, and do not count preseason games. This was not specified prior to the 2011 CBA. During the 2008-09 season Darius Miles (whose salary was excluded from Portland's cap) played in 10 games for Boston and Memphis (the limit was 10 games at the time), which included preseason games. The league counted the preseason games toward the total, and returned Miles' salary to Portland's cap.


From that, it looks like LA can apply for a salary exclusion via Nash's medical retirement in February of 2015. But wouldn't that affect how we conduct our free agency shopping this coming summer, since Nash's 9.7M would still be on the book? Even if the Lakers waive him, by buying him out, that 9.7M still remains on the cap and it will effect our free agency shopping cart.

I'm confused as to how the Lakers would be able to get a medical retirement on Nash this offseason, unless Mike Bresnahan knows something about the CBA that isn't available to the rest of us.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby charvin on Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:31 pm

I think the medical retirement has all but sailed. Mitch is giving the ultimate respect to Nash by saying he won't force it and that it be left entirely up to Nash, but he's not going to retire by choice.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby LooN3y on Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:47 am

although its going to be hard for him to retire from the game he loves because his body cant handle it anymore.

the dude is a multi millionaire, he can suck it up.

just go, im always a dude that clings on to players, but this is ridiculous, i never wanted him from the start, when we got sessions i thought we were going to get younger, nash literally appalled me, up until i gave in for the whole having a pass first PG for a selling point to dwight.

even with dwight, hell i was like we got talent with unsure chemistry, but hell what else can we do.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby therealdeal on Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:12 am

@ Vasash- I think what he's referring to is a voluntary retirement from Nash, but that's incredibly doubtful at this point.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby Doc Brown on Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:33 am

Nash wants his money, I don't see him giving any of it up.

Big coincidence that he magically played the lucky number 10 games this season and peaced out at halftime of the 10th game.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby charvin on Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:16 pm

Doc Brown wrote:Nash wants his money, I don't see him giving any of it up.

Big coincidence that he magically played the lucky number 10 games this season and peaced out at halftime of the 10th game.


Hence, the skepticism from people who believe in the theory that he did it to "stick it" to the Lakers. You're collecting your money even if you don't play, but he chose to because the Lakers were "short-handed".

Can't say there's not the tiniest shred of doubt in my mind either.
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