Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby karacha on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:13 pm

I'm totally up for taking my money, and if you want me to practice 1 hour a day and rehab... that's fine too.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby khmrP on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:15 pm

this whole Nash fiasco wouldn't have been as bad if it was merely 1 1st and the 2nd but dam 2 1st for a 38yr old PG was sort ridiculous. That was sign of him being selfish to begin with, fact is the other two team that was offering him that type of money was Tor/NY, Tor wasn't gona be good in general, NY I could see the appeal playing with Melo at the time but jeez we not only gave him a chance to compete but he also got to be close to his family. Did we really need to over compensate him as well and pay Pho at the same time?
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby therealdeal on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:23 pm

khmrP wrote:this whole Nash fiasco wouldn't have been as bad if it was merely 1 1st and the 2nd but dam 2 1st for a 38yr old PG was sort ridiculous. That was sign of him being selfish to begin with, fact is the other two team that was offering him that type of money was Tor/NY, Tor wasn't gona be good in general, NY I could see the appeal playing with Melo at the time but jeez we not only gave him a chance to compete but he also got to be close to his family. Did we really need to over compensate him as well and pay Pho at the same time?

That's not really his fault though. That's on Mitch for how he constructed the deal. I think he got ahead of himself and mortgaged too much of the future for Nash.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby Vasashi17 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:35 pm

The blurb about the Lakers possibly getting a medical retirement for Nash this offseason makes me wonder if there is a way that the Lakers can circumvent the rules. Here is what Coon's CBA FAQ states:

Any money paid to a player is included in team salary, even if the player is no longer playing or has retired.

There is one exception whereby a player can continue to receive his salary, but the salary is excluded from team salary. This is when a player suffers a career-ending injury or illness. The team must waive the player, and can apply for this salary exclusion following a waiting period. Only the player's team at the time the injury or illness was discovered (or reasonably should have been discovered) can apply for this salary exclusion.

The waiting period depends on the number games in which the player played in the season:1

If the player played 10 or more games in a season, the team can apply on the one-year anniversary of the player's last game.
If the player played fewer than 10 in a season, the team can apply 60 days after his last game, or the one-year anniversary of his last game in the previous season, whichever is later.
The determination as to whether an injury or illness is career ending is made by a physician jointly selected by the league and players association. The determination is based on whether the injury or illness will prevent the player from playing for the remainder of his career, or if it is severe enough that continuing to play constitutes a medically unacceptable risk.

If the injury exclusion is granted, the player's salary is removed from the team salary immediately.

If the player later "proves the doctors wrong" and resumes his career, then his salary is returned to the team salary when he plays in his 25th game1 in any one season, for any team. This allows a player to attempt to resume his career without affecting his previous team unless his comeback is ultimately successful. If the 25th game was a playoff game, then the player's salary is returned to the cap effective on the date of the team's last regular season game (i.e., the returned salary counts toward the luxury tax).

There are a few additional nuances to the salary exclusion:

If the player resumes his career and his salary is returned to the team salary, the team can re-apply for the salary exclusion under the same rules (including the rules for the waiting period).
If a player retires, even for medical reasons, his team does not receive a salary cap exception to acquire a replacement player.
A team cannot apply for this salary exclusion if they have applied for a Disabled Player exception (see question number 25) that season, whether the exception was granted or not.
If this salary exclusion is granted, the team cannot re-sign or re-acquire the player at any time.
This salary exclusion can be used when a player dies while under contract.
1 They count only regular season and playoff games, and do not count preseason games. This was not specified prior to the 2011 CBA. During the 2008-09 season Darius Miles (whose salary was excluded from Portland's cap) played in 10 games for Boston and Memphis (the limit was 10 games at the time), which included preseason games. The league counted the preseason games toward the total, and returned Miles' salary to Portland's cap.


From that, it looks like LA can apply for a salary exclusion via Nash's medical retirement in February of 2015. But wouldn't that affect how we conduct our free agency shopping this coming summer, since Nash's 9.7M would still be on the book? Even if the Lakers waive him, by buying him out, that 9.7M still remains on the cap and it will effect our free agency shopping cart.

I'm confused as to how the Lakers would be able to get a medical retirement on Nash this offseason, unless Mike Bresnahan knows something about the CBA that isn't available to the rest of us.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby charvin on Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:31 pm

I think the medical retirement has all but sailed. Mitch is giving the ultimate respect to Nash by saying he won't force it and that it be left entirely up to Nash, but he's not going to retire by choice.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby LooN3y on Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:47 am

although its going to be hard for him to retire from the game he loves because his body cant handle it anymore.

the dude is a multi millionaire, he can suck it up.

just go, im always a dude that clings on to players, but this is ridiculous, i never wanted him from the start, when we got sessions i thought we were going to get younger, nash literally appalled me, up until i gave in for the whole having a pass first PG for a selling point to dwight.

even with dwight, hell i was like we got talent with unsure chemistry, but hell what else can we do.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby therealdeal on Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:12 am

@ Vasash- I think what he's referring to is a voluntary retirement from Nash, but that's incredibly doubtful at this point.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby Doc Brown on Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:33 am

Nash wants his money, I don't see him giving any of it up.

Big coincidence that he magically played the lucky number 10 games this season and peaced out at halftime of the 10th game.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby charvin on Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:16 pm

Doc Brown wrote:Nash wants his money, I don't see him giving any of it up.

Big coincidence that he magically played the lucky number 10 games this season and peaced out at halftime of the 10th game.


Hence, the skepticism from people who believe in the theory that he did it to "stick it" to the Lakers. You're collecting your money even if you don't play, but he chose to because the Lakers were "short-handed".

Can't say there's not the tiniest shred of doubt in my mind either.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby MadMax on Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:36 am

This season, NBA fans have been treated to the rare sight of seeing the Los Angeles Lakers flounder. The most consistently successful franchise in the history of the league has only missed out on the playoffs five times (one of which happened when they still played in Minneapolis). With a 21-40 record, a sidelined Kobe Bryant, and a questionably talented roster, it figures that this season will mark the sixth such occurrence.

Yet there is hope that the team's lottery stay will be brief. Kobe, ever the competitor, has said that the turnaround will be a quick one. In more concrete terms, it's been argued that the Lakers will obtain one of this summer's high-profile free agents to remake their roster for the future. They believed that the future will be bright, in part because the Lakers remain a marquee franchise and attractive destination.

It now appears that the front office is adjusting that plan to reload in free agency this summer. With Kobe agreeing to his massive two-year extension in November, the Lakers' offseason flexibility has been dependent on their releasing aging and injury-addled Steve Nash via the collective bargaining agreement's stretch provision. Nash has been open and honest about this potential turn of events (and the subsequent end of his career), so it's not as if it's a mere rumor.

However, the Lakers seem to have told Nash that he's likely to stay with the team for the final year of his contract. As such, they're probably not going to shell out for a big name this summer. From Kevin Ding of Bleacher Report (via PBT):

The Lakers would rather be done with the entirety of Nash’s $9.7 million salary next year if they’re not planning on spending much next season, as opposed to stretching that money across the next three seasons if they waive him and suffer future burdens.
That decision by the Lakers would give Nash one last season to get his body as right as possible, control the nerve-root irritation sapping his back and legs, and try to go out on something close to his terms.
“Yeah,” Nash said Tuesday night about the Lakers letting him play it out next season. “It sounds like it.” [...]
For the Lakers’ purposes, Nash being able to contribute next season would lessen the bust of his acquisition only slightly. The losing hedges with Dwight Howard and Nash are severely limiting the Lakers’ rebuilding options now, and as Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak said last month, the one thing the franchise cannot afford is to gamble again and lose.
To Kupchak, paying maximum dollars to star players who the Lakers are not certain can deliver championship performances would be bad business—and is, in fact, exactly what has happened in New York with the Knicks struggling despite having Carmelo Anthony. So don’t expect to see Anthony or Chris Bosh—if he opts out of his Miami Heat contract—getting epic offers from the Lakers.
The implication here is that the Lakers think that 2015 free agents such as Kevin Love, LaMarcus Aldridge, and Rajon Rondo are the kinds of players, who can win championships. That point is arguable, but the practical outcome is that the Lakers would only pursue LeBron James (who would be a 2015 target anyway if he doesn't opt out) among this summer's potential max-level free agents. Otherwise, they'll keep Nash, pay him his salary over one season, and hope for the best.
Given that James is a long shot to team up with Bryant this summer (this is educated speculation only), it figures that the Lakers will have much the same team next year. Although Kobe figures to be healthier, he turns 36 in August and cannot be expected to return to his full abilities after such a lengthy term on the sidelines. As even the most optimistic projections for Nash do not expect much and big man Pau Gasol seems uncertain to re-up with Los Angeles, it's not crazy to see the Lakers as a lottery team again next season.

That would be an odd sight, to say the least. The Lakers have missed out on the playoffs in consecutive seasons just one time in their history (1974-75 and 1975-76), and fans expect to see a championship contender in every season. Going two seasons without a playoff appearance won't necessarily change those expectations, and it figures that Laker Nation would expect a major splash in 2015 free agency.

There's no special reason to think that splash won't be made, if only because two years in the doldrums aren't going to rob the franchise of their full aura. However, it's worth considering how deferring the team's reloading process could change their image and long-term expectations. While the Lakers have developed championship contenders in part because they've waited for the right players, they've also reached those heights through a great amount of luck. In banking on the 2015 free agent class, the front office has essentially made a big bet on a set of players who, for all their abilities, are not on the same level as the LeBrons and Durants of the NBA. This plan carries with it a hope of obtaining a similar player through the draft, but that's a gamble, as well. This path is not a sure thing, no matter how much planning the Lakers do.

The point here is not the Lakers are doomed to failure. It's just that, as their appraisal of available players stretches on, they look more like any other franchise attempting to create a championship team. The Lakers' history and market size certainly helps in that pursuit, but, as they learned with Dwight Howard in July, free agents usually assess current realities over all else. A rich history looks less impressive the more it recedes into the past.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/the-lakers-are-likely-keeping-steve-nash--which-means-no-big-free-agents-this-summer-014929609.html
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby therealdeal on Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:40 am

Thanks Steve!

As a fan this is hard to see but the franchise is making the right decision with this. Forcing an All-time great out the door? That's not going to look good to potential Big Names.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby Lakerjones on Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:20 am

therealdeal wrote:Thanks Steve!

As a fan this is hard to see but the franchise is making the right decision with this. Forcing an All-time great out the door? That's not going to look good to potential Big Names.


I really wish he had tried the Medical retirement since it seems virtually impossible for him to come back next year. But I'm glad that they aren't going for the stretch provision and will just let him come off the books after next season. Better for our future and the ability to sign a FA.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby Doc Brown on Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:32 am

He can start rehab now and on the last day of the season, he can play the last game for the entire 48 minutes if he can make it.

Otherwise, there is no point playing a washed up injury prone PG over anyone on our roster. The playing 3 games, sitting out 30, playing 2 games, sitting out 10 crap is old. He can have his money, but he shouldn't be allowed to play and hinder the development of other guys.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby V.V.V.V.V. on Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:48 am

If Nash is staying, MDA is probably staying too. :bang:
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby therealdeal on Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:50 pm

Lakerjones wrote:
therealdeal wrote:Thanks Steve!

As a fan this is hard to see but the franchise is making the right decision with this. Forcing an All-time great out the door? That's not going to look good to potential Big Names.


I really wish he had tried the Medical retirement since it seems virtually impossible for him to come back next year. But I'm glad that they aren't going for the stretch provision and will just let him come off the books after next season. Better for our future and the ability to sign a FA.

Oh definitely this is a good move by the FO all things considered. It's the right thing to do and the most prudent to our future, but WOW what a jerk move by Nash. To play in that 10th game fresh off of an injury scare and only make it to half time? It's a slap in the face. It really is.

Once Nash is gone, the Lakers really ought to wipe their hands of him. Try to forget he ever was a Laker because his last moments here were an absolute nightmare.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby lukewaltonsdad on Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:24 pm

Reading the Kevin Ding Article, basically stating that Nash is coming back next year, it's the right move, IMO. The FO bit themselves in the foot not giving themselves at least a 'Team Option' in his contract. You think a team taking a chance on somebody that old in NBA years would have included that; either way, let him play out the last year of his contract, get him off the books and move on.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby Doc Brown on Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:11 am

Mike Bresnahan ‏@Mike_Bresnahan 38m
Mike D'Antoni officially closes the door on Steve Nash returning this season for the Lakers. "He's not going to play."
Expand Reply


Take your time Steve, you came in at as close to 100% as you could get this season and played 10 games. You are going to have such a big impact on next season when you get an extra 2 months of rehab this time around. That should translate into playing another 10 games next season.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby Doc Brown on Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:04 am



6:20 mark of the video.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby Weezy on Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:19 am

^^^ Yup, it's honest alright. It also instantly makes me not a fan in the least anymore, and feel no sympathy for him despite the violins playing in the background. :man11: Thanks for helping to screw my favorite team, Steve, enjoy all that money while you don't play and we continue to suck and be handicapped by your deal. I would use the stretch provision on him after seeing that just to get him outta here. Here's your money, enjoy it from home, you "love the game", well you screwed us so you don't get to play anymore.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby lukewaltonsdad on Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:46 am

:man10: What a joke...either way, pay him this year, then get him off the books completely for next year heading into the 2014/15 Summer....
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby Vasashi17 on Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:56 am

Child support....knows its his last payday...I honestly can't get mad at that.

How did he get that guaranteed money in the first place?

Its funny how I keep hoping management will do something, only for it to completely go by the wayside....but our 1st round pick and Nash's expiring deal make for an interesting package on draft night. Management HAS to explore that option.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby lukewaltonsdad on Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:58 am

^Very Interesting, Vash...I like that thought A LOT.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby SK8 on Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:19 pm

I am so disappointed, i mean it's not his fault that our front office threw 10$ mili at him, but than again i never expected Steve to screw us like this, especially when we are in bad situation like this.
We just got Stev'ED .
He is gone after this, i am 100% sure he is gone.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby Doc Brown on Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:25 pm

He can use the love of the game and all that other politically correct crap, but I bet anything if he was getting paid vet. min he wouldn't be coming back next season.

10 million dollar meal ticket from our incompetent FO, why the hell wouldn't he stick on for that? And this just confirms to me that his goal was to play 10 games this season and be done with it.

There is no use playing him next season, there is no use for him to even be around, write him his check and tell him to stay at home. We need to build towards the future, not let a guy hang on for 10 million and decide every 15 games he wants to try and play 2 games.

He can't play back to backs, he can't play over 20 minutes, he can't play more than 2 games in a week. He's just a road block right now.
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Re: Nash Discussion: #injuredagain. nerve irritation. #andagain

Postby Barnstable on Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:29 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:Child support....knows its his last payday...I honestly can't get mad at that.

How did he get that guaranteed money in the first place?

Its funny how I keep hoping management will do something, only for it to completely go by the wayside....but our 1st round pick and Nash's expiring deal make for an interesting package on draft night. Management HAS to explore that option.


The following is pipe...

I would love a situation where we traded our 1st rounder, Nash and/or Pau for Love and Rondo.
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